57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Tr0n01d]

*nevermind*

Modifié par Tr0n01d, 28 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[byne]

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

[JustAidan]

Mastone wrote...

Sire Styx wrote...

Mastone wrote...

The thing about the dream sequence is that it's very similar to IT, so in other words, it isn't 'real'.
Making it turn out to be a dream is likely to incite more anger than making in an indoctrination, because there is evidence supporting indoctrination throughout the 3 games, but no evidence for dying dreams, if you know what I mean?

I suppose you could use that Shephard has already had several dreams involving this kid etc to support this, but you could also use it to support IT.

Yes I get what you mean,....but Indoctrination is a form of mind control where the victim is always in reality he moves in reality and he understands what he is doing  he is just made to believe that it is a good idea and that the reapers are gods, I never saw any proof that Shepard thought  the reapers were gods or that it was a good idea to make husks hell we killed a couple of them, the only thing that really touched Shepard is the Prothean tech from the beacon to Javiks shard and they made him see stuff  in dreamlike fashion not unlike the endsequence which contains a lot of images of hope.
Reapers don't care if you as indoctrinated person have a pleasant illusion, their only messag would be obey ...and then die, if they had that empathy they couldn't have killed countless of cycles.

The other explanation could be deliberate bad writing which suggests some arty farty view what is real...to bad for them the matrix have done it before them and  a lot better.

I am pretty sure the StarChild could count as "Supersituous Awe". Shepard has had a massive amount of exposure to Reapers and their technology throughout the series.

I don't think you understand the idea behind Reaper indoctrination how it works in the series, the OP has covered it better than I could given how fast this thread grows.

[Lyria]

MutsX wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

I played my frist game on Xbox360 on Insanity and it took 56 hours.  I did everything, plus tried to get every little Zaeed esque conversation with all characters.  Too much time was spent traveling between sections of the Citadel trying to hear the ambient conversations to get Specter terminal updated....

[Denvian]

byne wrote...

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

you beat me to it:pinched:

[byne]

protognosis wrote...

MutsX wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

I played my frist game on Xbox360 on Insanity and it took 56 hours.  I did everything, plus tried to get every little Zaeed esque conversation with all characters.  Too much time was spent traveling between sections of the Citadel trying to hear the ambient conversations to get Specter terminal updated....

Insanity was easy on the xbox, right up until Marauder Shields.

He had me stuck for liek a day and a half.

[DreamTension]

To play devil's advocate for a second....As a believer in the Indoctrination Theory there is only one thing that has bothered me about it. So can somebody help me out rationally?

If you want the best 'evidence' for the IDT not being true, it actually does not appear in the game. Bioware and EA executives' actions have given more support to the IDT not being true than anything we can rationalize in the video game.

If IDT was true and Bioware has DLC all along, then after this huge outrage occurred Bioware's response would have been less defensive and perhaps more enlightening to what their current plans are. They went immediately into PR mode (remember they (writers and developers) pretty much stopped responding after the first few days) and they followed this with CYA (cover your ass) mode.

We have a few interesting tidbits here and there, but for the most part it's been delay delay delay oh April, keep buying, don't trade in! It's been an obvious stall tactic (and rightly so if they have this HUGE plan), but the way they planned this has been less than motivating (to me).

Now we've had huge push back by fans who, are rightfuly so, upset at the ending and a little hurt that they've been getting double talk. So bad ratings, bad word of mouth, and bad press (no such thing as bad news is good news in the gaming world) has us here at this pass.

This week alone I've seen two places (best buy and amazon) sell the game at a reduced price. It's three weeks old. It's not Black Friday or anything. Games (especially AAA games) don't drop in price for at the least a few months (and that's rare). We are seeing the effect of this. Are we going to see any news?

The truth in the matter as more time goes by the less likely this theory is going to be true. If they had a plan, it would be incredibly easy to send a 'message' to the die-hard fans that want answers. I mean this is not hard. Prometheus (a movie) has been avoiding the obvious other movie connection (and still does by Ridley Scott--amazingly enough), but there have been new trailers that have basically said YES THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING. SHHHH

Nope. Bioware is silent.

Somebody please help me through this thought process? I believe in IDT, but every time I think about this I get worried for a massive disappointment in a week.

[felipejiraya]

I don't have nothing to say, just adding my contribuition to this thread gets to 1000 pages soon.

[Jaxitty]

Another inconsistency I spotted while looking for quotes.

ME3 Codex says this for the Citadel: "The Citadel is an ancient deep-space station, presumably constructed by the Protheans..."

This was a conversation between Shepard and Sovereign from Mass Effect 1
overheard in Virmire during Virmire: Saren's Plan

Sovereign: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They merely found them. The legacy of my kind.

Shepard: Why would you construct the mass relays then leave them for someone else to find?

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire.

Modifié par Jaxitty, 28 mars 2012 - 09:14 .

[n00bsauce2010]

byne wrote...

protognosis wrote...

MutsX wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...



By the way it might be possible. Bioware said the game will take about 40 hours. But it needed 31 hours and most other players I talked to were always between 30 and 33.
and I don t know if its true, but I heared the XBOX version is much bigger, then the PC version.

I played the xbox360 game to the fullest (incl scanning/sidemissions etc) and didnot skip a conversation, I ended up playing roughly 43 hours, as an expierenced ME player. In my opinion; 33 hours is very quick for a 360 first-time run.. 

But why would BioWare cut stuff from the pc-version?

on-topic, I hope that they reveal at PAX that the IT was their aim all along!

I played my frist game on Xbox360 on Insanity and it took 56 hours.  I did everything, plus tried to get every little Zaeed esque conversation with all characters.  Too much time was spent traveling between sections of the Citadel trying to hear the ambient conversations to get Specter terminal updated....

Insanity was easy on the xbox, right up until Marauder Shields.

He had me stuck for liek a day and a half.

marauder shields killed me once on insanity. All you have to do is not miss your shot more than two times in a row and you win.

Also I keep bringing it up but it's possible the endings are on  xbox360/ps3's discs already. Hence the 5gb difference in the install size for PC/xbox360. ps3 doesn't actually install the game. There is only one way to find out though. 

[JustAidan]

A nice catch from Reddit poster about the very first thing you see after the prologue.

"Does it seem like such a far fetched idea when the very first image you see in this game (after the prologue) is a misrepresentation of reality?

Is it any coincidence that the person holding that toy is the child who ultimately is the avatar of the Reapers on top of the Citadel and is in Shepard's dreams - dreams where she is tormented by ghostly figures - some might even describe them as oily, black shadows.

I could go on ..."

Not evidence at all but perhaps a nice bit of writers hinting at later events. They certainly paid attention to the fine detail in the rest of the game.

Modifié par JustAidan, 28 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[njfluffy19]

byne wrote...

Insanity was easy on the xbox, right up until Marauder Shields.

He had me stuck for liek a day and a half.

They said this game was going to be harder, but I found it to be the easiest of all three. I had the most trouble with ME1 and I still haven't beaten it on Insanity. Mass Effect 2 I've completed on insanity in multiple playthroughs.

And Marauder Shields did his duty... he killed me four times. I prevailed in the end though.

Modifié par njfluffy19, 28 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[byne]

Jaxitty wrote...

Another inconsistency I spotted while looking for quotes.

ME3 Codex says this for the Citadel: "The Citadel is an ancient deep-space station, presumably constructed by the Protheans..."

This was a conversation between Shepard and Sovereign from Mass Effect 1
overheard in Virmire during Virmire: Saren's Plan

Sovereign: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They merely found them. The legacy of my kind.

Shepard: Why would you construct the mass relays then leave them for someone else to find?

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire.

Well, the codex is written from an in-universe perspective, going by what most of the galaxy would know.

Only really Shep and her crew know the Relays and the Citadel were made by the Reapers

[DreamTension]

Jaxitty wrote...

Another inconsistency I spotted while looking for quotes.

ME3 Codex says this for the Citadel: "The Citadel is an ancient deep-space station, presumably constructed by the Protheans..."

This was a conversation between Shepard and Sovereign from Mass Effect 1
overheard in Virmire during Virmire: Saren's Plan

Sovereign: The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Organic civilizations rise, evolve, advance. And at the apex of their glory, they are extinguished. The Protheans were not the first. They did not create the citadel. They did not forge the mass relays. They merely found them. The legacy of my kind.

Shepard: Why would you construct the mass relays then leave them for someone else to find?

Sovereign: Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire.

They used the same explanation they had in ME1.  ME1 says the same thing.  The codexes are like encylopedias---they don't change much from game to game.  Plus you (shepard and the player) and your team are the only people who would knowledge of that.

[Kyzee]

byne wrote...

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

::applauds:: 

[byne]

njfluffy19 wrote...

byne wrote...

Insanity was easy on the xbox, right up until Marauder Shields.

He had me stuck for liek a day and a half.

They said this game was going to be harder, but I found it to be the easiest of all three. I had the most trouble with ME1 and I still haven't beaten it on Insanity. Mass Effect 2 I've completed on insanity in multiple playthroughs.

And Marauder Shields did his duty... he killed me four times. I prevailed in the end though.

Going by Insanity difficulty I'd say ME2 > ME1 > ME3

My view of ME1's insanity might be thrown off by the fact that I was a soldier and just never let go of the trigger on my HMWA assault rifle, and my view on ME3's insanity might be thrown off by how incredibly awesome Vanguards are.

[Cucobr]

byne wrote...

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

classic is classic

[MaximizedAction]

JustAidan wrote...

A nice catch from Reddit poster about the very first thing you see after the prologue.

"Does it seem like such a far fetched idea when the very first image you see in this game (after the prologue) is a misrepresentation of reality?

Is it any coincidence that the person holding that toy is the child who ultimately is the avatar of the Reapers on top of the Citadel and is in Shepard's dreams - dreams where she is tormented by ghostly figures - some might even describe them as oily, black shadows.

I could go on ..."

Not evidence at all but perhaps a nice bit of writers hinting at later events. They certainly paid attention to the fine detail in the rest of the game.

I like your interpretation of the toy/ship image. Come to think of it, is also has been used right in the beginning of the "Take Earth back" trailer.

[Lyria]

cyborg2501 wrote...

Denvian wrote...

byne wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Sorry if I'm behind on this discussion, but...

Doesn't the fact that the worst possible ending only lets you pick the destroy option, kind of completely debunk the indoctrination theory? Shepard who completely fails, automatically gets to break indoctrination, but Shepard who tried hard to save the galaxy has a 2 out of 3 chance of being indoctrinated?

You also dont live in the worst possible ending. Could just be the Reapers deciding not to bother with you, and leaving you to die.

I always thought that the Lower your EMS the less hope you have and your brain comes up with a much worse scenario because of that lack of hope.

And of course if you get control or destroy depends on what choices you made before with the Reaper base... Did you opt to destroy or control it?

The concept of "Hope" is repeated frequently throughout the game... I agree that the EMS is representative of both internal and external chances of survival.... Hope on the inside, Military strength on the outside

Ah yes, "hope."

[byne]

Cucobr wrote...

byne wrote...

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

classic is classic

I like 80s music so much that its kind of a shame I was born in 1990 >.>

I think my love of 80s music came from GTA: Vice City

[DreamTension]

byne wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

byne wrote...

Tr0n01d wrote...

ok I'm starting the countdown !

The Final Countdown?

classic is classic

I like 80s music so much that its kind of a shame I was born in 1990 >.>

I think my love of 80s music came from GTA: Vice City

It did make the game rather awesome.

[KILLER SQUIDZ]

DreamTension wrote...

To play devil's advocate for a second....As a believer in the Indoctrination Theory there is only one thing that has bothered me about it. So can somebody help me out rationally?

If you want the best 'evidence' for the IDT not being true, it actually does not appear in the game. Bioware and EA executives' actions have given more support to the IDT not being true than anything we can rationalize in the video game.

If IDT was true and Bioware has DLC all along, then after this huge outrage occurred Bioware's response would have been less defensive and perhaps more enlightening to what their current plans are. They went immediately into PR mode (remember they (writers and developers) pretty much stopped responding after the first few days) and they followed this with CYA (cover your ass) mode.

We have a few interesting tidbits here and there, but for the most part it's been delay delay delay oh April, keep buying, don't trade in! It's been an obvious stall tactic (and rightly so if they have this HUGE plan), but the way they planned this has been less than motivating (to me).

Now we've had huge push back by fans who, are rightfuly so, upset at the ending and a little hurt that they've been getting double talk. So bad ratings, bad word of mouth, and bad press (no such thing as bad news is good news in the gaming world) has us here at this pass.

This week alone I've seen two places (best buy and amazon) sell the game at a reduced price. It's three weeks old. It's not Black Friday or anything. Games (especially AAA games) don't drop in price for at the least a few months (and that's rare). We are seeing the effect of this. Are we going to see any news?

The truth in the matter as more time goes by the less likely this theory is going to be true. If they had a plan, it would be incredibly easy to send a 'message' to the die-hard fans that want answers. I mean this is not hard. Prometheus (a movie) has been avoiding the obvious other movie connection (and still does by Ridley Scott--amazingly enough), but there have been new trailers that have basically said YES THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING. SHHHH

Nope. Bioware is silent.

Somebody please help me through this thought process? I believe in IDT, but every time I think about this I get worried for a massive disappointment in a week.

I won't lie, I don't believe they had any intention of adopting an alternate ending let alone the IDT. So if they implement it I believe it will be merely to satisfy the fans.

[Lyria]

Dance Craze wrote...

LOL the human reaper was the most idiotic thing in the series. Why would the reapers want a reaper that looks like a human and has arms and gentials etc.

so they can **** it?   

They need to reproduce after all, since they need to kill organics to keep sythetics from killing organics....

/sarcasm

[SauliusL]

DreamTension wrote...

To play devil's advocate for a second....As a believer in the Indoctrination Theory there is only one thing that has bothered me about it. So can somebody help me out rationally?

If you want the best 'evidence' for the IDT not being true, it actually does not appear in the game. Bioware and EA executives' actions have given more support to the IDT not being true than anything we can rationalize in the video game.

If IDT was true and Bioware has DLC all along, then after this huge outrage occurred Bioware's response would have been less defensive and perhaps more enlightening to what their current plans are. They went immediately into PR mode (remember they (writers and developers) pretty much stopped responding after the first few days) and they followed this with CYA (cover your ass) mode.

We have a few interesting tidbits here and there, but for the most part it's been delay delay delay oh April, keep buying, don't trade in! It's been an obvious stall tactic (and rightly so if they have this HUGE plan), but the way they planned this has been less than motivating (to me).

Now we've had huge push back by fans who, are rightfuly so, upset at the ending and a little hurt that they've been getting double talk. So bad ratings, bad word of mouth, and bad press (no such thing as bad news is good news in the gaming world) has us here at this pass.

This week alone I've seen two places (best buy and amazon) sell the game at a reduced price. It's three weeks old. It's not Black Friday or anything. Games (especially AAA games) don't drop in price for at the least a few months (and that's rare). We are seeing the effect of this. Are we going to see any news?

The truth in the matter as more time goes by the less likely this theory is going to be true. If they had a plan, it would be incredibly easy to send a 'message' to the die-hard fans that want answers. I mean this is not hard. Prometheus (a movie) has been avoiding the obvious other movie connection (and still does by Ridley Scott--amazingly enough), but there have been new trailers that have basically said YES THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING. SHHHH

Nope. Bioware is silent.

Somebody please help me through this thought process? I believe in IDT, but every time I think about this I get worried for a massive disappointment in a week.

I was wondering about that also. And if they didn't have a solid plan the most logic and easy decision would be, as you say, go directly to fans  and tell what's coming or not. They even never denied the Indoc theory, while there were other theories or supposedly leaked sources they denied fast. For me it only makes sense if they planned it all along, and risking the drops in sales (didn't expect such reaction from fans), keep their plan - one month after release, to announce the DLC or whatever. Now they are waiting as they said for more people to finish the game without knowning that the end is fake, otherwise their whole plan would be ruined (to indoctrinate the player). It's like a short term loss, but long term gain. If they pull this off, they will go into history.

[DreamTension]

Hmm that's depressing, but probably a realistic expectation. I'll take it!

Shows you how bummed out I am.