57139 réponses à ce sujet

[Sire Styx]

I've thought that maybe, if you keep the collcetor base, there is more likely to be reaper tech in the illusive mans base. So when you bast through there, you already start to get indoctrinated meaning you only have the control option at low EMS. It's a bit iffy for a theory like....

[savagejuicebox]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Mike Aus wrote...

OK, give us your logic theory. I'm keen to hear it.

My memory is rough so I'm just going to give my version of the most popular theorists points that I'm aware of.

The child: I think this is honestly the cliche of all sci-fi the "I've picked a form you are most comfortable with" I don't think the reaper AI was a child because of indoctrination I simply feel that Shepard was thinking about the child. Which brings me to the dreams. 

My idea is the dreams are just that dreams. I don't think the shadows represent indoctrination nor the child representing Shepards decent into the reaper's will. I simply see it as a dream. This child was the first person Shepard really ever failed to save once the reapers hit he was the first "failed mission". I admit it looks sketchy when the child is talking and then disappears as well as Anderson never seeing the child, nor the soldiers helping the child up but there are a few points I want to mention. 

Anderson was focusing on a door that he had to open to get out into an open field, to see more of his men and fellow species being harvested and killed. While these thoughts were in his head and opening the door a reaper was walking around outside. If that were me I wouldn't have noticed a low talking british child in an airduct. He obviously had enough on his head. I think he never even noticed the child at all nor Shepard talking to him. He never even asks about it you never hear a word about the child mentioned by anyone again. I also believe he was in the corner of a vent the child could've easily gotten around the corner. But like I said speculation in a logical sense. 

I also see the same logic towards soldiers not helping the child. If the child wasn't there why did they wait so long to take off and then only shut the doors and take off after the child is in? Was it because they were waiting for the child to get in and trying to provide cover fire on a planet overwhelmed with enemy ground and air forces? I believe so. But even if it's not true why wait so long for the doors there was a good 30 seconds that could've probably been used to get away were they waiting for the other shuttle? Doesn't seem logical considering the shuttles were screwed either way. But like I said again that's my opinion. 

To me the child is a failure Shepard can't take at first. He could've saved the kid pulled him out do anything instead he didn't the kid got away and then blown up. I think the dreams just symbolize his failure in a war that he's not suppose to win. The child is the first failure of this war. The shadows represent the hundreds of thousands of people that are now dead because of your failure to rally then to fight. While I can completely see the reasoning this ISN'T Shepard's fault I can see the game Shepard seeing it that way feeling crippling guilt and it resulting in his nightmares. The fire with Shepard and the child is to represent his own failure and doubts against his chance to win against the reapers one he vocally states to his friends and squad. (though for whatever reason he never talks about the dream..weird but unrelated) 

TIM was in the citadel because the citadel was the very last place to be taken under reaper attack. It makes sense since the citadel would be their exit back to dark space once they were done. He had been obsessed with controlling the most powerful force in the universe to see it as his attribution to human society to make them more powerful than the Asari or any other organic or synthetic race. TIM wanted humans to be the final step in evolution to truely own the universe as we're suppose to. But he played with fire and got burnt. Put too much effort into learning the Reapers secrets wasn't powerful or advanced enough to comprehend them. And when he put reaper tech into himself thinking he could use their tech against them. He failed. But the indoctrinated idea along with his own ego was why he alerted the reapers. He got into the citadel first because he didn't want you or anyone else to follow and screw up his reverse indoctrination on the Reapers. The indoctrination kept him from thinking like the genius he was (honestly I liked him til the end where he indoctrinated himself) and realizing telling them to go bring the citadel and attack earth at full force was probably not the best humanity decision. But it explains why he's there in person and looks like a terminator reject. 

I honestly think the dream like state is from bloodloss and thuroughly having his ass handed to him. The stomach wound I'm assuming as a glitch because you do get shot by TIM if you screw up. I think the game being rushed as it was, was meant to have an indoctrination scene involved (a much more full one thatn the TIM thing) or maybe even at the child but I think it was taken out at THAT point not that the choices themselves were an indoctrination but rather the discussion with TIM was meant to go a different route and just didn't.

The last part I think happened no one agrees with I see it as a theory and if you don't like it you don't but please stop telling me it's impossible it's a sci-fi game people. 

I think Shepard lives and crashes down to earth. He lives for the following reason. He's part synthetic, the syntehtics are what are keeping his body alive, but no matter what they try without them it's more than likely he would end up a dead hunk of Shepard flesh again. But hear me out. This is a machine that's billions of years old. It has the power to destroy synthetics without destroying syntehtics (we're assuming your ems is high enough that the beam doesn't destroy earth in the process and as you can see the reapers don't explode they just kinda stop working and drop) This machine also has the ability to somehow destroy all the mass relays, without destroying all the galaxies involved which was never explained, nor proven possible considering what happened when we destroyed the mass relay in the Terminus system. (Go ask the Batarians about it...oh wait they're dead)

Is it really so much to assume Shepard fell to earth died stayed dead for a period of time (we have no idea how long he was really under all the rubble) and the crucible being this unknown machine with obvious mastery of time and space, couldn't affect shepard in a way that it might restore him to pre-synthetic status? My theory is it worked similar to status Shepard was hit and his body was restored to a time where he could survive without the synthetics (which also explains the not staying dead despite the fall from space) and that final breath at the scene is actually him breathing for the first time because he's brought back from death. 

It's kind of like a Full Metal Alchemist type ending Shepard put so much sacrifice into the Crucible, the universe, he did what he did for everyone (at least my shepard did he was paragon) And the universe just said "wow you did a lot" and cut the dude a break. BUT like I said it's a theory but I think it's a sound theory at the least. 

If you hate it hate it but I think it's right and that's good enough for me. I'm through attacking IT so I hope you'll give my theory a little bit of thought. It's not so impossible as I hear other IT people tell me as they try to tear me apart saying I make no sense. But hey opinions are opinionated. There's more to the theory but honestly the IT theory has been going on for so long and has so many variations that I just can't keep track of them all. 

yay space magic!

Also if you pick up certain pistols you could easily fire all the shots needed from the husks to the end where you shoot the conduit without having to reload. Could just be that Shepard was going to fire until he ran out of bullets and just had enough of a full clip to pull off what he needed. Makes sense some of the pistols could hold up to 25-30 bullets only takes about 16-20 to do what he needs. But that's speculation nothing more. 

Modifié par savagejuicebox, 28 mars 2012 - 11:42 .

[n00bsauce2010]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Mike Aus wrote...

OK, give us your logic theory. I'm keen to hear it.

I also see the same logic towards soldiers not helping the child. If the child wasn't there why did they wait so long to take off and then only shut the doors and take off after the child is in? Was it because they were waiting for the child to get in and trying to provide cover fire on a planet overwhelmed with enemy ground and air forces? I believe so. But even if it's not true why wait so long for the doors there was a good 30 seconds that could've probably been used to get away were they waiting for the other shuttle? Doesn't seem logical considering the shuttles were screwed either way. But like I said again that's my opinion. 

I think Shepard lives and crashes down to earth. He lives for the following reason. He's part synthetic, the syntehtics are what are keeping his body alive, but no matter what they try without them it's more than likely he would end up a dead hunk of Shepard flesh again. But hear me out. This is a machine that's billions of years old. It has the power to destroy synthetics without destroying syntehtics (we're assuming your ems is high enough that the beam doesn't destroy earth in the process and as you can see the reapers don't explode they just kinda stop working and drop) This machine also has the ability to somehow destroy all the mass relays, without destroying all the galaxies involved which was never explained, nor proven possible considering what happened when we destroyed the mass relay in the Terminus system. (Go ask the Batarians about it...oh wait they're dead)

I have two problems with your theory.
A soldiers main duty is to
protect civilians. And if you notice (go watch the opening sequences to
mass effect 3) There is a soldier standing next to the child inside of
the shuttle.. doing absolutely nothing. He's just standing there. So to
your logic that soldier should've been worried about killing the
reapers.. but nope he's standing there. So if he isn't worried about the
reapers, he should've 1- seen the kid and 2- helped him. (the kid isn't
real) maybe the first two times you see him are. but that time..
certainly not.

There is no f*cking way shepard lived during that
fall back to earth. for 1 reason- in mass effect 2 he barely survives
the fall back to a planet that has roughly 85% of the atmospheric
pressure and gravity that earth does. (don't believe me? go look at the
planet on the galaxy map in me2) Also.. we hear many times that he only
survived because his helmet and armor were intact. So answer this.. how
would shepard be able to survive a fall back to earth when 1- his armor
is completely burned up and he has no helmet and 2- the child clearly
suggests he will die when picking the destroy option. Also if you notice
there are multiple explosions on the citadel. The first being when you
destroy the chamber for the so-called "renegade option" that in turn
destroys the reapers. The second being when the whole damn citadel blows
up and then sends out the space-magic signal. Answer this. how exactly
is shepard going to survive those two explosions and then fall back down
to earth with no armor or helmet when he barely survived a fall on
another planet?

Modifié par n00bsauce2010, 28 mars 2012 - 11:43 .

[schneeland]

Denvian wrote...
Hey what about my theory!?

I stated that a low EMS means you spent less time helping people and seeing the galaxy unite so you go into the dream with less hope then if you would have spent that time saving parts of the galaxy and helping people. Since the hallucination is your own mind's construct (Or at least how I understand it it is) it paints a much bleaker ending.

And you get either destroy or control with low EMS depending on what you did with the reaper base in ME2 so it just goes with that decision for your final decision

Sorry, totally missed that. You guys are just way too quick for somebody with a fulltime job who's supposed to be writing a Ph.D. thesis atm

Also, just paraphrasing to make sure I understand your theory: you basically say that low EMS equals less experiencing of positive development, thus only the destroy option? (because your mind, kind of, only provides that one?)

[NikolaiShade]

@ShepardtheHopeful

About the kid. You can see him entering a buiding, same building is hit after a minute or two by a reaper beam, if the kid can survive, then all is possible.

Edit: sorry, thinking about it, even less than a minute and btw you can see a soldier helping an injured civilian getting aboard the shuttle, why the others shouldn't help the kid?

Modifié par NikolaiShade, 28 mars 2012 - 11:48 .

[Denvian]

schneeland wrote...

Denvian wrote...
Hey what about my theory!?

I stated that a low EMS means you spent less time helping people and seeing the galaxy unite so you go into the dream with less hope then if you would have spent that time saving parts of the galaxy and helping people. Since the hallucination is your own mind's construct (Or at least how I understand it it is) it paints a much bleaker ending.

And you get either destroy or control with low EMS depending on what you did with the reaper base in ME2 so it just goes with that decision for your final decision

Sorry, totally missed that. You guys are just way too quick for somebody with a fulltime job who's supposed to be writing a Ph.D. thesis atm

Also, just paraphrasing to make sure I understand your theory: you basically say that low EMS equals less experiencing of positive development, thus only the destroy option? (because your mind, kind of, only provides that one?)

Well it isn't the only option it just defaults to the decision you made before, to destroy or save the collector base.  But depending on that choice you will only get destroy or control

And I have a full time job too budy!!  It is just a 12 night shift position.  

Modifié par Denvian, 28 mars 2012 - 11:49 .

[MasterDracoStoc]

schneeland wrote...

Denvian wrote...
Hey what about my theory!?

I stated that a low EMS means you spent less time helping people and seeing the galaxy unite so you go into the dream with less hope then if you would have spent that time saving parts of the galaxy and helping people. Since the hallucination is your own mind's construct (Or at least how I understand it it is) it paints a much bleaker ending.

And you get either destroy or control with low EMS depending on what you did with the reaper base in ME2 so it just goes with that decision for your final decision

Sorry, totally missed that. You guys are just way too quick for somebody with a fulltime job who's supposed to be writing a Ph.D. thesis atm

Also, just paraphrasing to make sure I understand your theory: you basically say that low EMS equals less experiencing of positive development, thus only the destroy option? (because your mind, kind of, only provides that one?)

As a side note on this, James will complain of a hum on the ship. This inconspicuous line is said by Kaiden in ME1. The hum was coming from the Conduit on the Citadel. It is believed by some that there is a Reaper Indoctrination device on the Normandy planted there by TIM.

[Sparviero Ged]

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

[MasterDracoStoc]

Lab is starting. Got to go.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

@ShepardtheHopeful If you could put that in easy-to-read bullet format it would be much appreciated. I have a chem lab soon and don't have time to read all the fluff.

Basically in a nutshell, The child in the dream is PTSD or survivors guilt whichever fits better here. 

The TIM scene was incomplete (theory on this one)

The cruicble revived shepard due to his synthetics in a FMA kinda ending of "you worked so hard we'll cut you a break" kinda cosmic way. 

don't remember rest of the theory so can't answer other questions until presented. 

that's the much shorter version of it not as accurate due to cutbacks 

[Sire Styx]

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

Because they want to indoctrinate Shepard.

Edit:
Before anyone asks why, Shepard managed to get an entire galaxy to come to earth and fight. Killing Shepard will just anger his/her allies. Subverting Shep's will can get him/her to tell his/her allies to, say, fly into the sun or something.

Modifié par Sire Styx, 28 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Denvian]

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

Because harby wuves him 

Modifié par Denvian, 29 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[schneeland]

Denvian wrote...

Well it isn't the only option it just defaults to the decision you made before, to destroy or save the collector base.  But depending on that choice you will only get destroy or control

And I have a full time job too budy!!  It is just a 12 night shift position.  

Ok. That makes sense. Yet, I have the impression, we have little chance of knowing the effects of EMS. It can be explained within IT, but still remains a little speculative.

Well, maybe you just read quicker than me, then

[n00bsauce2010]

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

The reapers want him as a tool to use. If he believes he can control the reapers or that synthesis is a viable option, the galaxy will follow him to their doom. Harbinger has a hardon for shepard if you notice. During mass effect 2 most f his quotes are directed at shepard.

Miranda- "If we use shepard, humanity might well follow" althought unrelated it's a perfect reason to why it makes sense. The galaxy is right in the alley putting all of their lives in the hands of shepard. So if shepard comes up with the idea that controlling the reapers is the only or most viable option, the galaxy will follow him/her.

[monrapias]

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

.......

ME3 is the first mass effect game you have played? right?

Harbringer states many times in me2 that he wants shepard alive.

[Sparviero Ged]

Sire Styx wrote...

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

Because they want to indoctrinate Shepard.

Oh yes, Sure!
Shepard won in the last years and the reapers decide to don't kill him?! Yes i suppose they thought that "Well...shepard can destroy us...he is very near to his final victory...but we can't kill him...far better indoctrinate him...we don't care if we all can be destroy for this choice."

It's simple crazy!!! No organic or inorganic will never do such a thing! The reapers don't need shepard to win. The have all the time they need to kill all without shepard's help.

Realy man! This is crazy!

[Denvian]

schneeland wrote...

Denvian wrote...

Well it isn't the only option it just defaults to the decision you made before, to destroy or save the collector base.  But depending on that choice you will only get destroy or control

And I have a full time job too budy!!  It is just a 12 night shift position.  

Ok. That makes sense. Yet, I have the impression, we have little chance of knowing the effects of EMS. It can be explained within IT, but still remains a little speculative.

Well, maybe you just read quicker than me, then

Well that is just how it makes the most sense in my mind really.  I have no idea how Bioware will play it out but I am pretty sure that EMS will be more important in the DLCs as well... Well maybe... I hope really

Nah a lot of this 1000 pages is people coming in and putting forth the same issues so if you read 1/4 of it and Byne's comments you get the gist of the important stuff.

[Sire Styx]

Say Shepard was a weapon. Controlling them just makes the reapers stronger and everyone else loses a great ally.
I mean if I was a reaper and I've just shot Shepard and then notice they're still alive, I'd move straigh in to indoctrinating Shepard.
It's kill first, but indocrinate if the option presents itself.
Like in ME2: Harbringer says to preserve sheps body is possible. Otherwise harbringer could have just opened an airlock or something.

[Denvian]

monrapias wrote...

Sparviero Ged wrote...

This theory is simple ridiculous.
Some parts are fascinating, but there are giga plotes hole in it.

If the last part is all in the mind of Shepard, why the reapers don't kill him while is unconscius ?

.......

ME3 is the first mass effect game you have played? right?

Harbringer states many times in me2 that he wants shepard alive.

He did say it in Arival "I want Shepard alive!" *evil* *evil*... He should have just killed him there... But he didn't!  

Beeeecaaaause he wuves him! 

Modifié par Denvian, 29 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[cj3style]

Great stuff, just completed the story, went along this line of thought but then picked synthesis, but once you lined up all the pieces it makes sense, well done bioware you heroes!!!

(if its true)

[Sparviero Ged]

n00bsauce2010 wrote...

The reapers want him as a tool to use. If he believes he can control the reapers or that synthesis is a viable option, the galaxy will follow him to their doom. Harbinger has a hardon for shepard if you notice. During mass effect 2 most f his quotes are directed at shepard.

Miranda- "If we use shepard, humanity might well follow" althought unrelated it's a perfect reason to why it makes sense. The galaxy is right in the alley putting all of their lives in the hands of shepard. So if shepard comes up with the idea that controlling the reapers is the only or most viable option, the galaxy will follow him/her.

No! You want your ridiculous theory 

Why run the risk to die for have shepard? If shepard die Reapers will win 100%. If shepard doesn't die and indotrinaction doen't worl...reapers die...so...what can we do? Best win at 100% or risk to die?
XD

[ShepardTheHopeful]

In resonse to your question I'd ask you please fully read what I wrote I already stated the reason Shepard was revived stating he did indeed die when he fell from space he died hard but the crucible fixed that that's the theory of it I obviously explained it better in the previous page. 

A soldiers duty is to protect. I think he's doing fairly well for a soldier who knew little to nothing about the giant robot race he'd be facing. Remember no one saw the reapers in the alliance outside of Shepard's experience and his squads of course. They didn't listen to Shepard so the soldiers were never prepared. Once it happened the soldiers had to deal with a force. As for the soldier being next to the child...honestly I think that's just a glitch because that guy was wearing normal pants then you turn to shepard and he's in armored pants. So unless Levi makes battle ready armor I don't think he was actually suppose to be there at all and it was an artistic glitch no one was suppose to notice. As for the rest of the soldiers they're shooting their guns like it's the new fashion statement. Never saw one of them stop firing until he hit the shuttle door to escape the door they also didn't shut until the child was on and a shuttle that had plenty of time to shut the doors and leave prior as not a single other civilian was anywhere near the shuttles aside from that boy. But hey like I said opinions and all that. I'm sure many IT theorists will assume the change in pants had to do with Shepards indoctrination just as I merely see it as a glitch no one was suppose to care about. Hell I didn't notice it until you brought up this topic just now. 

[Denvian]

Sparviero Ged wrote...

No! You want your ridiculous theory 

Why run the risk to die for have shepard? If shepard die Reapers well win 100%. If shepard doesn't die and indotrinaction doen't worl...reapers die...so...what can we do? Best win at 100% or risk to die?
XD

Was it just me or was that hard to read?

Modifié par Denvian, 29 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Sire Styx]

Harbringer was firing massive lasers at Shepard, obviously trying to kill them. Shepard is now incapacitated, perfect time to move in and indoctrinate. Reapers are arrogant, and didn't expect Shepard to be cababled of resisting indoctrination.

If shepard dies, they may win 100%.
If shepard lives and becomes a tool of the reapers, they win 110%

[schneeland]

Denvian wrote...
[...]
Well that is just how it makes the most sense in my mind really.  I have no idea how Bioware will play it out but I am pretty sure that EMS will be more important in the DLCs as well... Well maybe... I hope really
[...]

I agree. I am still inclined to believe that we will see some action, at least from our "major" war assets (Quarians/Geth, Krogan/Salarians, Mercs, etc.). Not so sure about the minor stuff (would be fun to see a Turian squad holding up the banner of the first regiment).