We will probably have to replay the final mission either way. Strange that there isn't a post ending autosave. Not for me at least
Was the ending a hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory
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byne
, mars 10 2012 12:46
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#24877
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 12:47
llbountyhunter
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Sparviero Ged wrote...
savagejuicebox wrote...
Sparviero Ged wrote...
Sire Styx wrote...
BleedingUranium wrote...
As I posted a little while ago, none of you get the so called EMS problem, where you only get destroy for low EMS. Without making my post really long like before, the EMS is like the switched colours of Destroy and Control, it's another mind game. Naturally people will equate low EMS to the worst option, and high EMS to the best. It plays into Star Child's hand again, trying to make you avoid destroy and choose Synthesis.
It's a little bit meta or something (i.e. Shepard would have no knowledge of it but the player would), but it is plausible. It links in with all the conditioning/psycology stuff happening aswell.
The 99% of time they meet shepard they loose! ( by the way....miranda say "if we loose shepard..." not if we use )
Machines don't run risk.
If sovering was arrogant it didn't use so many precautions to attack citadel.
Reapers are Machine...they have all the time of the universe to do their job. They don't need Shepard.
Howewer the world is beautiful thanks the difference between all the things.
I only hope bioware doesn't ruin the final following such crazy ideas.
Ah...and sorry for my english, but i think you don't know my language.
Good Night!
Throughout all the games the writers went through great links to make sure the player understood; that understanding the Reapers is impossible.
and yet... you claim to understand how they think... we are all dumber for reading what you had to say...
you get this---> click
This is realy the last post...have to sleep! XD
I don't understand the reapers! I can't understand them! How could they think i prefer to loose my freedom in change of stability? I never acept this! I
Or more specific...I understand the writer ( he is a human )...and understand the story ( it's a classic story...like matrix )...i understand the reapers are machine ( with something organic ) and so i can imagine that math tell "better 100%" than run risk.
you lost me at "more specific..."
#24878
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 12:48
savagejuicebox
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Sparviero Ged wrote...
savagejuicebox wrote...
Sparviero Ged wrote...
Sire Styx wrote...
BleedingUranium wrote...
As I posted a little while ago, none of you get the so called EMS problem, where you only get destroy for low EMS. Without making my post really long like before, the EMS is like the switched colours of Destroy and Control, it's another mind game. Naturally people will equate low EMS to the worst option, and high EMS to the best. It plays into Star Child's hand again, trying to make you avoid destroy and choose Synthesis.
It's a little bit meta or something (i.e. Shepard would have no knowledge of it but the player would), but it is plausible. It links in with all the conditioning/psycology stuff happening aswell.
The 99% of time they meet shepard they loose! ( by the way....miranda say "if we loose shepard..." not if we use )
Machines don't run risk.
If sovering was arrogant it didn't use so many precautions to attack citadel.
Reapers are Machine...they have all the time of the universe to do their job. They don't need Shepard.
Howewer the world is beautiful thanks the difference between all the things.
I only hope bioware doesn't ruin the final following such crazy ideas.
Ah...and sorry for my english, but i think you don't know my language.
Good Night!
Throughout all the games the writers went through great links to make sure the player understood; that understanding the Reapers is impossible.
and yet... you claim to understand how they think... we are all dumber for reading what you had to say...
you get this---> click
This is realy the last post...have to sleep! XD
I don't understand the reapers! I can't understand them! How could they think i prefer to loose my freedom in change of stability? I never acept this! I
Or more specific...I understand the writer ( he is a human )...and understand the story ( it's a classic story...like matrix )...i understand the reapers are machine ( with something organic ) and so i can imagine that math tell "better 100%" than run risk.
Im sure there is a post of the IT in your language somewhere, (I think you may be talking in circles but im not sure) Maybe you should go and troll that one with your ramblings... <_<
#24879
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:07
Arian Dynas
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Anyway, since no one asked,
Here’s how I see the whole thing panning out.
If you chose the “correct” ending or “Destroy”, then Shepard wakes up in the ruins of London regardless of whether or not you saw the video of the N7 armor taking a breath (though that does factor in later) this all works out since Destroy is the easiest ending to attain, so Bioware can assure all their customers a chance at a good ending (just not the BEST ending).
Anyway, Shep wakes up in the Ruins of London, his squad he took down desperately trying to pull him out and get him to a field hospital; Shepard gets carried to one and gets healed to a workable degree. At that point, the player takes control again, the Crucible device itself turns out to be an new and improved version of the reaper indoctrination devices, planted eons ago for races to discover and build, thinking they had found their salvation, when in reality they merely were putting the final nail in their own coffins, more Reaper manipulation of organic. Harbinger has landed at a certain locale the center of London, where the Reapers have established a control unit for the Crucible. He’s also been dramatically weakened; Shepard breaking indoctrination has taken up far more effort than he counted on.
Now at this point, Anderson comes to visit, Shepard informs him of the intel that Harbinger is weak from his attempt, Anderson radios this to Hackett, a plan is formed, Shepard and squad will be sent on a mission behind enemy lines. Anderson also chooses to accompany Shepard and his love interest (whom is locked in as a squad mate for this mission, refusing to leave our hero behind again) on the mission, hence why he has his own entire skill tree when the only other temporary companion we’ve seen did not.
Shepard’s and Normandy’s mission?
Destroy the Crucible; take out Harbinger, save the day.
Shepard and his squad fight their way through the ruins of London, making their way to the target, if the Player gathered enough war materiel then at certain points, the fights will be
made easier, with say, Krogan soldiers making the charge into a Cannibal pillbox, Quarians and Geth making bombing and strafing runs on columns of Husks, Asari and Rachni tearing enemy forces a new one, if the player did NOT gather appropriate resources, then the fights will be harder, making the fight to the target all the more difficult.
Shepard and company make their way to the target and bring down Harbinger on them, whom at this point is quite done with ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL and is ready to kill Shepard himself, Shepard then fights a large quantity of enemies, while Harbinger blows away his cover, making the fight progressively more difficult the longer it takes, of course at this point, Shepard can summon in allies ala Dragon Age Origins to help out, Quarian Strafing runs, Krogan Soldiers, Turian Snipers ect.
Back on the ground, if Shepard managed to make his way to the base of Harbinger, he discovers that the intel was bad, the target they were trying to reach, was in fact a dud. The real shield control is inside
Harbinger himself. The crew blows their way into the reaper, fighting yet more enemies the whole way, only this time, no allies to help. The team reaches the heart of Harbinger, where the Star-Child appears again to appeal to Shepard not to destroy Harbinger or the crucible, only this time, Shepard, made wiser by the Catalyst’s test in the Dream-Crucible, will have none of it, and watches as the Star-Child turns into a hologram of Harbinger himself, whom at that point will attempt to forcibly indoctrinate Shep in the messy and fast way, Shepard himself will destroy the control for the Crucible’s shield, simultaneously killing Harbinger himself, whom is acting as a command post for the reaper fleet, which, his death sends the Reapers and their ground forces reeling, giving the allied forces time to take advantage of the lull to hit hard (while we get a scene from Admiral Hackett, ordering the 5th fleet to take the
advantage Shepard has given them.)
Meanwhile up above, Joker and the Normandy are having trouble, getting to the Crucible itself is proving difficult, but depending on the strength of the fleet, they can manage to make their way with either heavy damage to the Normandy (in which case it destroys the Crucible at the cost of
the ship itself, ramming the side killing Joker, as he goes for a suicide run with EDI at his side, the rest of the crew bailing out via escape pods as Joker reminisces about Shepard’s own death, which he is about to re-create.) or they manage to blow the Crucible up with minimal difficulty if the fleet is strong enough to keep the Reapers of their backs, the entire bunch, featuring only characters you do NOT have in your squad at the time doing various things to help out, Garrus controlling the Thanix cannons, Tali working with damage control to keep the ship flying ect.
Now, back inside Harbinger, the Reaper’s body slowly blowing up, Shepard and team have to get out before the explosion kills them, fighting yet more reaper ground forces on the way out, escaping before the timer. Along the way, Shepard is injured, badly. Depending on whether or not Anderson was killed in the hallucination, Anderson and the love interest may both die here if certain conditions are not met (like EMS, Shepard’s choice, the phases of the moon, whether we have sacrificed to the great god of videogames lately, ect)
After the team have escaped (and if they did not manage to they get a different ending, see Synthesis) then the Reaper fleet is rocking on its heels from the destruction of both Harbinger AND the Crucible, you get to watch as the fleet is mopped up, Shepard is rushed to a field hospital again, in the care of either Dr. Chakwas or Dr. Michel, and depending on your war assets/whether you saw the N7 armor in rubble, Shepard’s alive video after they destroy choice, the Shepard survives his wound and lives, if you did NOT gather sufficient war resources, and never saw the Shepard’s alive video, then you get to see Shepard dying in the arms of his love interest/ Anderson/ Dr. Chakwas depending on who survived, succumbing to his wounds as his squad looks on, then we see Shepard's funeral.
That’s the Destroy ending.
Here’s how I see the Synthesis ending panning out.
If you chose Synthesis, Shepard still wakes up in the ruins, crawling his way out, only this time, he’s become Saren 2.0, his body and mind partially controlled by the Reapers, he never visits the Alliance field hospital, since now his synthetic parts, being slowly “Improved” by the Reapers
have subsumed his organic ones, in this case, the player still controls Shepard, fighting against Alliance forces, potentially shooting his former squad mates as they drag him out of the rubble, but now they are tasked with defending the target. Alliance Forces make their way to the target, attempting to bring it down despite Shepard’s “death” as Shepard himself fights them off; this may or may not include fighting your own squad. Just as an unexpected Alliance strike team makes their way to the target (no matter what the player does) Harbinger lands, intending to destroy them himself, now made cocky by his
mastery of his old foe.
At that point, Shepard manages to regain control of himself, his will breaking through the indoctrination and he fights his way through Harbinger as before, potentially accompanied by his squad if they weren’t
killed (by having a high number of War Resources, hence they were better protected) and makes his way to the bowels of Harbinger, intending to destroy him, the ending plays out the same as before, the Star Child appears, reveals himself to be Harbinger and forces his will on Shepard, only this time, the indoctrination is beginning to work, Shepard’s mind slowly beginning to break and crack under the pressure of Harbinger’s assault. Shepard then has the option to try and break the indoctrination, in which event, if he had sufficient War Resources to give him time to, he succeeds, and the ending plays
out similarly to Destroy. If he did not, or chooses not to break indoctrination, Shepard instead throws himself bodily into Harbinger’s core, setting off as many grenades and explosives as he can, taking Harbinger down with him. At that point, the player will watch Shepard’s funeral, presided over by Admiral Hackett (or Anderson, if he survived) which will play out similarly, with only cosmetic dialogue changes between the Death ending of the Destroy path and this one.
Then there’s the 3rd ending, Control. Here Shepard fully submits to Harbinger, and it plays out similarly to Synthesis, if his EMS was low, but in this case, Squad members will die regardless of the Galactic Readiness/ War Resources rating (instead of being accompanied by his squadmates, instead Shepard gets to nameless Alliance Scrubs at the end of the defense part of the mission), Shepard will try to throw off Harbinger’s influence when reaching his core and fail, giving in, Reaper victory and humanity is destroyed.
If his EMS was high enough, then Shepard managed to maintain enough autonomy to be able to form some semblance of his own personality, with the ending playing out similarly to Destroy, until reaching Harbinger’s Core, at which point, Harbinger/ the Star Child will not make an appearance, and Shepard instead turns his weapon on Anderson and his LI, shooting both of them in their backs, watching in horror as he can do nothing about Normandy being unable to bypass the Crucible Device shield, humanity is destroyed, Shepard blasts his own brains out with his pistol, mimicking Saren. Reaper Victory.
Then, this all makes way for Mass Effect 4 or something to that effect (idk, something like Mass Effect: Universe or Mass Effect: Insert Noun or Adjective here) New Protagonist, new storyline, but you bring in stuff like from Dragon Age Origins to Dragon Age 2, depending on how things turned out, if Shepard survived, then an Admiral John Shepard (or Jane, if you prefer) makes a cameo, if Shepard died, then you can visit the John Shepard Memorial on Earth, with a statue of Shepard standing victorious among the wreckage of Harbinger. If the Reapers won, then just like ME2, the save doesn't transfer.
Take the whole thing with a grain of salt, but, this is how I see the whole thing turning out, in my opinion, even if they charge for this, having indoctrinated their entire audience, would quite simply, make Bioware the most brilliant developer I have seen in a long time, and the greatest
schemers of the last two years. And this way, everyone is happy, the people who wanted their sad ending get their sad ending, the people who wanted their happy ending, get their happy ending, the people who wanted a bittersweet ending get their bittersweet ending, the people who wanted to see the Reapers win get to (all because of an ill-advised choice, based entirely on color
), Bioware doesn’t have to re-write ANYTHING to make this one fit (more credence for the theory it was planned) and they get the option they want of making more Mass Effect games, and at the same time, manage to completely pull the wool over the eyes of their audience.
So yeah, have fun with the wall of text!
Here’s how I see the whole thing panning out.
If you chose the “correct” ending or “Destroy”, then Shepard wakes up in the ruins of London regardless of whether or not you saw the video of the N7 armor taking a breath (though that does factor in later) this all works out since Destroy is the easiest ending to attain, so Bioware can assure all their customers a chance at a good ending (just not the BEST ending).
Anyway, Shep wakes up in the Ruins of London, his squad he took down desperately trying to pull him out and get him to a field hospital; Shepard gets carried to one and gets healed to a workable degree. At that point, the player takes control again, the Crucible device itself turns out to be an new and improved version of the reaper indoctrination devices, planted eons ago for races to discover and build, thinking they had found their salvation, when in reality they merely were putting the final nail in their own coffins, more Reaper manipulation of organic. Harbinger has landed at a certain locale the center of London, where the Reapers have established a control unit for the Crucible. He’s also been dramatically weakened; Shepard breaking indoctrination has taken up far more effort than he counted on.
Now at this point, Anderson comes to visit, Shepard informs him of the intel that Harbinger is weak from his attempt, Anderson radios this to Hackett, a plan is formed, Shepard and squad will be sent on a mission behind enemy lines. Anderson also chooses to accompany Shepard and his love interest (whom is locked in as a squad mate for this mission, refusing to leave our hero behind again) on the mission, hence why he has his own entire skill tree when the only other temporary companion we’ve seen did not.
Shepard’s and Normandy’s mission?
Destroy the Crucible; take out Harbinger, save the day.
Shepard and his squad fight their way through the ruins of London, making their way to the target, if the Player gathered enough war materiel then at certain points, the fights will be
made easier, with say, Krogan soldiers making the charge into a Cannibal pillbox, Quarians and Geth making bombing and strafing runs on columns of Husks, Asari and Rachni tearing enemy forces a new one, if the player did NOT gather appropriate resources, then the fights will be harder, making the fight to the target all the more difficult.
Shepard and company make their way to the target and bring down Harbinger on them, whom at this point is quite done with ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL and is ready to kill Shepard himself, Shepard then fights a large quantity of enemies, while Harbinger blows away his cover, making the fight progressively more difficult the longer it takes, of course at this point, Shepard can summon in allies ala Dragon Age Origins to help out, Quarian Strafing runs, Krogan Soldiers, Turian Snipers ect.
Back on the ground, if Shepard managed to make his way to the base of Harbinger, he discovers that the intel was bad, the target they were trying to reach, was in fact a dud. The real shield control is inside
Harbinger himself. The crew blows their way into the reaper, fighting yet more enemies the whole way, only this time, no allies to help. The team reaches the heart of Harbinger, where the Star-Child appears again to appeal to Shepard not to destroy Harbinger or the crucible, only this time, Shepard, made wiser by the Catalyst’s test in the Dream-Crucible, will have none of it, and watches as the Star-Child turns into a hologram of Harbinger himself, whom at that point will attempt to forcibly indoctrinate Shep in the messy and fast way, Shepard himself will destroy the control for the Crucible’s shield, simultaneously killing Harbinger himself, whom is acting as a command post for the reaper fleet, which, his death sends the Reapers and their ground forces reeling, giving the allied forces time to take advantage of the lull to hit hard (while we get a scene from Admiral Hackett, ordering the 5th fleet to take the
advantage Shepard has given them.)
Meanwhile up above, Joker and the Normandy are having trouble, getting to the Crucible itself is proving difficult, but depending on the strength of the fleet, they can manage to make their way with either heavy damage to the Normandy (in which case it destroys the Crucible at the cost of
the ship itself, ramming the side killing Joker, as he goes for a suicide run with EDI at his side, the rest of the crew bailing out via escape pods as Joker reminisces about Shepard’s own death, which he is about to re-create.) or they manage to blow the Crucible up with minimal difficulty if the fleet is strong enough to keep the Reapers of their backs, the entire bunch, featuring only characters you do NOT have in your squad at the time doing various things to help out, Garrus controlling the Thanix cannons, Tali working with damage control to keep the ship flying ect.
Now, back inside Harbinger, the Reaper’s body slowly blowing up, Shepard and team have to get out before the explosion kills them, fighting yet more reaper ground forces on the way out, escaping before the timer. Along the way, Shepard is injured, badly. Depending on whether or not Anderson was killed in the hallucination, Anderson and the love interest may both die here if certain conditions are not met (like EMS, Shepard’s choice, the phases of the moon, whether we have sacrificed to the great god of videogames lately, ect)
After the team have escaped (and if they did not manage to they get a different ending, see Synthesis) then the Reaper fleet is rocking on its heels from the destruction of both Harbinger AND the Crucible, you get to watch as the fleet is mopped up, Shepard is rushed to a field hospital again, in the care of either Dr. Chakwas or Dr. Michel, and depending on your war assets/whether you saw the N7 armor in rubble, Shepard’s alive video after they destroy choice, the Shepard survives his wound and lives, if you did NOT gather sufficient war resources, and never saw the Shepard’s alive video, then you get to see Shepard dying in the arms of his love interest/ Anderson/ Dr. Chakwas depending on who survived, succumbing to his wounds as his squad looks on, then we see Shepard's funeral.
That’s the Destroy ending.
Here’s how I see the Synthesis ending panning out.
If you chose Synthesis, Shepard still wakes up in the ruins, crawling his way out, only this time, he’s become Saren 2.0, his body and mind partially controlled by the Reapers, he never visits the Alliance field hospital, since now his synthetic parts, being slowly “Improved” by the Reapers
have subsumed his organic ones, in this case, the player still controls Shepard, fighting against Alliance forces, potentially shooting his former squad mates as they drag him out of the rubble, but now they are tasked with defending the target. Alliance Forces make their way to the target, attempting to bring it down despite Shepard’s “death” as Shepard himself fights them off; this may or may not include fighting your own squad. Just as an unexpected Alliance strike team makes their way to the target (no matter what the player does) Harbinger lands, intending to destroy them himself, now made cocky by his
mastery of his old foe.
At that point, Shepard manages to regain control of himself, his will breaking through the indoctrination and he fights his way through Harbinger as before, potentially accompanied by his squad if they weren’t
killed (by having a high number of War Resources, hence they were better protected) and makes his way to the bowels of Harbinger, intending to destroy him, the ending plays out the same as before, the Star Child appears, reveals himself to be Harbinger and forces his will on Shepard, only this time, the indoctrination is beginning to work, Shepard’s mind slowly beginning to break and crack under the pressure of Harbinger’s assault. Shepard then has the option to try and break the indoctrination, in which event, if he had sufficient War Resources to give him time to, he succeeds, and the ending plays
out similarly to Destroy. If he did not, or chooses not to break indoctrination, Shepard instead throws himself bodily into Harbinger’s core, setting off as many grenades and explosives as he can, taking Harbinger down with him. At that point, the player will watch Shepard’s funeral, presided over by Admiral Hackett (or Anderson, if he survived) which will play out similarly, with only cosmetic dialogue changes between the Death ending of the Destroy path and this one.
Then there’s the 3rd ending, Control. Here Shepard fully submits to Harbinger, and it plays out similarly to Synthesis, if his EMS was low, but in this case, Squad members will die regardless of the Galactic Readiness/ War Resources rating (instead of being accompanied by his squadmates, instead Shepard gets to nameless Alliance Scrubs at the end of the defense part of the mission), Shepard will try to throw off Harbinger’s influence when reaching his core and fail, giving in, Reaper victory and humanity is destroyed.
If his EMS was high enough, then Shepard managed to maintain enough autonomy to be able to form some semblance of his own personality, with the ending playing out similarly to Destroy, until reaching Harbinger’s Core, at which point, Harbinger/ the Star Child will not make an appearance, and Shepard instead turns his weapon on Anderson and his LI, shooting both of them in their backs, watching in horror as he can do nothing about Normandy being unable to bypass the Crucible Device shield, humanity is destroyed, Shepard blasts his own brains out with his pistol, mimicking Saren. Reaper Victory.
Then, this all makes way for Mass Effect 4 or something to that effect (idk, something like Mass Effect: Universe or Mass Effect: Insert Noun or Adjective here) New Protagonist, new storyline, but you bring in stuff like from Dragon Age Origins to Dragon Age 2, depending on how things turned out, if Shepard survived, then an Admiral John Shepard (or Jane, if you prefer) makes a cameo, if Shepard died, then you can visit the John Shepard Memorial on Earth, with a statue of Shepard standing victorious among the wreckage of Harbinger. If the Reapers won, then just like ME2, the save doesn't transfer.
Take the whole thing with a grain of salt, but, this is how I see the whole thing turning out, in my opinion, even if they charge for this, having indoctrinated their entire audience, would quite simply, make Bioware the most brilliant developer I have seen in a long time, and the greatest
schemers of the last two years. And this way, everyone is happy, the people who wanted their sad ending get their sad ending, the people who wanted their happy ending, get their happy ending, the people who wanted a bittersweet ending get their bittersweet ending, the people who wanted to see the Reapers win get to (all because of an ill-advised choice, based entirely on color
), Bioware doesn’t have to re-write ANYTHING to make this one fit (more credence for the theory it was planned) and they get the option they want of making more Mass Effect games, and at the same time, manage to completely pull the wool over the eyes of their audience.So yeah, have fun with the wall of text!
#24880
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:13
Golferguy758
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@Arian
Very nice. I like it. I posted something similar earlier
Very nice. I like it. I posted something similar earlier
#24881
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:18
Arian Dynas
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Hell, if Bioware wanted me to write it for them, I would. I doubt they'd hire me though, seeing as when I submitted the idea of Indoctrination Theory to Priestly, all I got back was "Thank you for your feedback." How delightfully vague. Bioware wouldn't be biting their tongues this hard if there wasn't something up their sleeves.
Also, anyone notice how the funny trolls seem to lose heart after a few pages and leave? I mean, I get some really good zingers worked up for em, and then they never see them. I am sad now.
Also, anyone notice how the funny trolls seem to lose heart after a few pages and leave? I mean, I get some really good zingers worked up for em, and then they never see them. I am sad now.
Modifié par Arian Dynas, 29 mars 2012 - 01:26 .
#24882
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:19
Derp88
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steve3194 wrote...
It seemed very strange to me that the TIM just walked up behind shepard from the same the direction shepard walked in. Doesn't make any sense as he was supposed to have been on the citadel before shepard.
The walls moving around thing is the only way I could pass that off. Even then it's a push
Yeah I found this odd, too.
But is also a reason why I think Anderson reaching the console before Shepard is quite a weak argument for the IT. Anderson does clearly state that the surroundings are constantly changing, shifting. So while it seems there was only one entrance to the console room, Anderson could have come from a different area.
#24883
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:21
n00bsauce2010
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Hey. So I was listening to some guy babble about the possibility of the indoctrination theory. He states true or not, bioware's original plan or not. The game's ending either sucks or the ending is not presently on the disk. He also state's that if the indoctrination theory is true, fans have grounds to sue EA/Bioware for false advertisement.
Although true to an extent, I don't think they can sue. For one, promises made by the developers were not directly tied into the AD campaign. Nowhere ever when I was watching me3 adds did it say I would have wildly different endings. In reality the game does have "wildly" different endings. That is of course you're not including the last 10-15 minutes of the game. ME3 in itself is an ending. And the results during the journey are just that "wildly" different. So in my opinion, indoctrination theory being what they planned, there are no grounds to sue. Because, there is actually an ending on the game..it just depends on how you interpret that ending.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm 100% for indoc theory. btw.
Although true to an extent, I don't think they can sue. For one, promises made by the developers were not directly tied into the AD campaign. Nowhere ever when I was watching me3 adds did it say I would have wildly different endings. In reality the game does have "wildly" different endings. That is of course you're not including the last 10-15 minutes of the game. ME3 in itself is an ending. And the results during the journey are just that "wildly" different. So in my opinion, indoctrination theory being what they planned, there are no grounds to sue. Because, there is actually an ending on the game..it just depends on how you interpret that ending.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm 100% for indoc theory. btw.
Modifié par n00bsauce2010, 29 mars 2012 - 01:21 .
#24884
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:22
iwillkillfortali
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#24885
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:24
Arian Dynas
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n00bsauce2010 wrote...
Hey. So I was listening to some guy babble about the possibility of the indoctrination theory. He states true or not, bioware's original plan or not. The game's ending either sucks or the ending is not presently on the disk. He also state's that if the indoctrination theory is true, fans have grounds to sue EA/Bioware for false advertisement.
Although true to an extent, I don't think they can sue. For one, promises made by the developers were not directly tied into the AD campaign. Nowhere ever when I was watching me3 adds did it say I would have wildly different endings. In reality the game does have "wildly" different endings. That is of course you're not including the last 10-15 minutes of the game. ME3 in itself is an ending. And the results during the journey are just that "wildly" different. So in my opinion, indoctrination theory being what they planned, there are no grounds to sue. Because, there is actually an ending on the game..it just depends on how you interpret that ending.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm 100% for indoc theory. btw.
That, and you'd have to prove you purchased the game specifically for the ending and nothing else. You must have purchased it entirely for the claim of 16 radically different endings (RADICAL!
) for a suit to go through.
#24886
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:25
nukular power
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n00bsauce2010 wrote...
Hey. So I was listening to some guy babble about the possibility of the indoctrination theory. He states true or not, bioware's original plan or not. The game's ending either sucks or the ending is not presently on the disk. He also state's that if the indoctrination theory is true, fans have grounds to sue EA/Bioware for false advertisement.
Although true to an extent, I don't think they can sue. For one, promises made by the developers were not directly tied into the AD campaign. Nowhere ever when I was watching me3 adds did it say I would have wildly different endings. In reality the game does have "wildly" different endings. That is of course you're not including the last 10-15 minutes of the game. ME3 in itself is an ending. And the results during the journey are just that "wildly" different. So in my opinion, indoctrination theory being what they planned, there are no grounds to sue. Because, there is actually an ending on the game..it just depends on how you interpret that ending.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm 100% for indoc theory. btw.
You couldn't sue JK Rowling for killing off Snape. You can't sue BIoware for not ending ME the way you wanted to, either.
#24887
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:25
n00bsauce2010
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Arian Dynas wrote...
n00bsauce2010 wrote...
Hey. So I was listening to some guy babble about the possibility of the indoctrination theory. He states true or not, bioware's original plan or not. The game's ending either sucks or the ending is not presently on the disk. He also state's that if the indoctrination theory is true, fans have grounds to sue EA/Bioware for false advertisement.
Although true to an extent, I don't think they can sue. For one, promises made by the developers were not directly tied into the AD campaign. Nowhere ever when I was watching me3 adds did it say I would have wildly different endings. In reality the game does have "wildly" different endings. That is of course you're not including the last 10-15 minutes of the game. ME3 in itself is an ending. And the results during the journey are just that "wildly" different. So in my opinion, indoctrination theory being what they planned, there are no grounds to sue. Because, there is actually an ending on the game..it just depends on how you interpret that ending.
Thoughts anyone?
I'm 100% for indoc theory. btw.
That, and you'd have to prove you purchased the game specifically for the ending and nothing else. You must have purchased it entirely for the claim of 16 radically different endings (RADICAL!
Anyone else care to elaborate? Thanks for the input btw.
#24888
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:26
Golferguy758
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Derp88 wrote...
steve3194 wrote...
It seemed very strange to me that the TIM just walked up behind shepard from the same the direction shepard walked in. Doesn't make any sense as he was supposed to have been on the citadel before shepard.
The walls moving around thing is the only way I could pass that off. Even then it's a push
Yeah I found this odd, too.
But is also a reason why I think Anderson reaching the console before Shepard is quite a weak argument for the IT. Anderson does clearly state that the surroundings are constantly changing, shifting. So while it seems there was only one entrance to the console room, Anderson could have come from a different area.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but....
The message "Anderson" sends you about seeing something ahead, the console, comes in just as you get onto the bridge thing. Since the bridge never moves while you are on it, and the walls don't shift in front of you to indicate the entrance sliding, there's no way he could have gotten there.
#24889
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:38
Derp88
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Golferguy758 wrote...
Derp88 wrote...
steve3194 wrote...
It seemed very strange to me that the TIM just walked up behind shepard from the same the direction shepard walked in. Doesn't make any sense as he was supposed to have been on the citadel before shepard.
The walls moving around thing is the only way I could pass that off. Even then it's a push
Yeah I found this odd, too.
But is also a reason why I think Anderson reaching the console before Shepard is quite a weak argument for the IT. Anderson does clearly state that the surroundings are constantly changing, shifting. So while it seems there was only one entrance to the console room, Anderson could have come from a different area.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but....
The message "Anderson" sends you about seeing something ahead, the console, comes in just as you get onto the bridge thing. Since the bridge never moves while you are on it, and the walls don't shift in front of you to indicate the entrance sliding, there's no way he could have gotten there.
Yeah it is weird. But that's assuming there are no other entrances except for the bridge that Shepard used. Its a part of the citadel that they've never seen before, so the infrastructure could be more complex than what meets the eye.
I am a believer of the IT, but I think the more subtle evidence is more convincing than this. e.g. oily shadows appearing in the dreams.
#24890
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:41
lex0r11
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Denvian wrote...
lex0r11 wrote...
Hey!
I demand that someone post a 'remember Maurader Shields' post on page 1000, if i'm not here!
Remember!
got ya covered
That's the spirit.
#24891
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:44
Sero303
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Derp88 wrote...
Golferguy758 wrote...
Derp88 wrote...
steve3194 wrote...
It seemed very strange to me that the TIM just walked up behind shepard from the same the direction shepard walked in. Doesn't make any sense as he was supposed to have been on the citadel before shepard.
The walls moving around thing is the only way I could pass that off. Even then it's a push
Yeah I found this odd, too.
But is also a reason why I think Anderson reaching the console before Shepard is quite a weak argument for the IT. Anderson does clearly state that the surroundings are constantly changing, shifting. So while it seems there was only one entrance to the console room, Anderson could have come from a different area.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but....
The message "Anderson" sends you about seeing something ahead, the console, comes in just as you get onto the bridge thing. Since the bridge never moves while you are on it, and the walls don't shift in front of you to indicate the entrance sliding, there's no way he could have gotten there.
Yeah it is weird. But that's assuming there are no other entrances except for the bridge that Shepard used. Its a part of the citadel that they've never seen before, so the infrastructure could be more complex than what meets the eye.
I am a believer of the IT, but I think the more subtle evidence is more convincing than this. e.g. oily shadows appearing in the dreams.
"more complex than what meets the eye."
Yea and next Harbinger transforms into Megatron
#24892
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:48
Derp88
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"more complex than what meets the eye."
Yea and next Harbinger transforms into Megatron
Or an Archdemon from Dragon Age, with "Puff the Magic Dragon" playing in the background.
#24893
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 01:52
delldo
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I always wondered why non-IT people claim that the oily shadows in the dream are just representations of the innocent lives lost(souls) on earth and anywhere else. If they were lost souls, then wouldn't they be represented in a different color? Humans usually signify good souls or innocent souls as white or glowing manifestations, while the evil or darker souls are represented as being black and shadowy like. Since we know these are his dreams and that he is human; wouldn't his subconscious follow the same logic?
#24894
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:08
Arian Dynas
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DreamTension wrote...
To play devil's advocate for a second....As a believer in the Indoctrination Theory there is only one thing that has bothered me about it. So can somebody help me out rationally?
If you want the best 'evidence' for the IDT not being true, it actually does not appear in the game. Bioware and EA executives' actions have given more support to the IDT not being true than anything we can rationalize in the video game.
If IDT was true and Bioware has DLC all along, then after this huge outrage occurred Bioware's response would have been less defensive and perhaps more enlightening to what their current plans are. They went immediately into PR mode (remember they (writers and developers) pretty much stopped responding after the first few days) and they followed this with CYA (cover your ass) mode.
We have a few interesting tidbits here and there, but for the most part it's been delay delay delay oh April, keep buying, don't trade in! It's been an obvious stall tactic (and rightly so if they have this HUGE plan), but the way they planned this has been less than motivating (to me).
Now we've had huge push back by fans who, are rightfuly so, upset at the ending and a little hurt that they've been getting double talk. So bad ratings, bad word of mouth, and bad press (no such thing as bad news is good news in the gaming world) has us here at this pass.
This week alone I've seen two places (best buy and amazon) sell the game at a reduced price. It's three weeks old. It's not Black Friday or anything. Games (especially AAA games) don't drop in price for at the least a few months (and that's rare). We are seeing the effect of this. Are we going to see any news?
The truth in the matter as more time goes by the less likely this theory is going to be true. If they had a plan, it would be incredibly easy to send a 'message' to the die-hard fans that want answers. I mean this is not hard. Prometheus (a movie) has been avoiding the obvious other movie connection (and still does by Ridley Scott--amazingly enough), but there have been new trailers that have basically said YES THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING. SHHHH
Nope. Bioware is silent.
Somebody please help me through this thought process? I believe in IDT, but every time I think about this I get worried for a massive disappointment in a week.
I have felt doubts too. But then I remember a few things.
One, Bioware and EA are human. And they were also itching to tell us something from day 1 "Hardest Day Ever" and all that, imo, Bioware and company merely underestimated the backlash this ending would bring, and doubted it would result in this big of a brouhaha, PR sugguests to them they sit on the original plan despite short term losses, and they carry on from there, biding their time.
I think that the team in fact did not realise this ending would upset people, thinking that a larger proportion wouldn't take it at face value, and instead question it right away, so perhaps like good writers who reward intelligent customers, they overestimated our mind's ability to question and went the other way, treating us as too smart, thinking we would "get the joke" right away.
Best Buy I am quite used to seeing scummy practices on, at least around here (they stole my copy of the DA2 signature edition and tried to pawn me off with a regular copy, keeping WHAT I F*CKING PAID FOR GODDAMN IT for their staff to get first. Not long after that, they ended up hiding all the collector's editions of Skyrim they had under the front counter, and claiming that not only had every pre-ordered copy been picked up the previous night, when the shop was CLOSED, but that they had not copies reserved or otherwise anywhere, when I could find the counterpoint SITTING AT THE GUY'S KNEES /rant) so I am not suprised they jumped ship and lowered prices, Amazon actually had a petition for refunds, which they caved to, so yeah, besides, both groups are no more informed of EA's/ Bioware's plans than we are, so they made assumptions.
We've been getting the *wink wink, hint hint* kind of thing too, what do you think we've been linking twitters for?
And besides, very few things happen instantly in the buisness world, how long has it been? 22 days? That's less time than it took to code a conversation in the game. Be patient.
Besides, haven't you heard? There's no such thing as bad publicity. This s**t got covered by the BBC for crying out loud. That is PR gold.
#24895
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:11
Gilgamesh117
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Idk if it's just me, but if there's no boss battle, I really wouldn't care, it wouldn't effect my opinion of an already amazing story. Infact I think a boss battle would lesson the impact of the Indoc theory or indoctrination itself, I just think the conclusion of the mass effect trilogy with Shepard is bigger then a regular one on one( or three On one) boss battle.
#24896
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:20
mmdestiny
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Gilgamesh117 wrote...
Idk if it's just me, but if there's no boss battle, I really wouldn't care, it wouldn't effect my opinion of an already amazing story. Infact I think a boss battle would lesson the impact of the Indoc theory or indoctrination itself, I just think the conclusion of the mass effect trilogy with Shepard is bigger then a regular one on one( or three On one) boss battle.
I've said it since the debut trailer.
Final battle will be Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett in a tag-team shirtless fistfight with TIM.
#24897
Guest_DuskRose_*
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:21
Guest_DuskRose_*
Guest_DuskRose_*
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mmdestiny wrote...
Gilgamesh117 wrote...
Idk if it's just me, but if there's no boss battle, I really wouldn't care, it wouldn't effect my opinion of an already amazing story. Infact I think a boss battle would lesson the impact of the Indoc theory or indoctrination itself, I just think the conclusion of the mass effect trilogy with Shepard is bigger then a regular one on one( or three On one) boss battle.
I've said it since the debut trailer.
Final battle will be Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett in a tag-team shirtless fistfight with TIM.
I'm sure the FemShep fans will enjoy that.
#24898
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:25
mmdestiny
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DuskRose wrote...
mmdestiny wrote...
Gilgamesh117 wrote...
Idk if it's just me, but if there's no boss battle, I really wouldn't care, it wouldn't effect my opinion of an already amazing story. Infact I think a boss battle would lesson the impact of the Indoc theory or indoctrination itself, I just think the conclusion of the mass effect trilogy with Shepard is bigger then a regular one on one( or three On one) boss battle.
I've said it since the debut trailer.
Final battle will be Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett in a tag-team shirtless fistfight with TIM.
I'm sure the FemShep fans will enjoy that.
And then Shep, Garrus, and Wrex do a 3-way brofist, the shockwave of which wipes out Harbinger.
#24899
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:30
Gilgamesh117
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Now that's an Academy award winning ending, not the other 27 endings...
#24900
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 02:31
ContraMan
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mmdestiny wrote...
Gilgamesh117 wrote...
Idk if it's just me, but if there's no boss battle, I really wouldn't care, it wouldn't effect my opinion of an already amazing story. Infact I think a boss battle would lesson the impact of the Indoc theory or indoctrination itself, I just think the conclusion of the mass effect trilogy with Shepard is bigger then a regular one on one( or three On one) boss battle.
I've said it since the debut trailer.
Final battle will be Shepard, Anderson, and Hackett in a tag-team shirtless fistfight with TIM.
Ah, nothing says "sport" like the age old game of fisticuffs. I'll put my silver dollar certificate on the old man voiced by that Vaudevillian actor of such repute by the name of Lance Henriksson.
