55 réponses à ce sujet

[SyyRaaaN]

I never understood this thing. Maybe I didn't bother to listen very much but I could use some clarifications. In my opinion ME3 has a really weak main plotline here; but there are some parts of it i simply don't understand. (maybe thats why i disliked it? )

How did the Protheans gain knowledge of this tool? According to Vigil their ability to use the relaysystem made them isolated from each other which made them easy pray . How could the March colony have this data; Why was there data about the catalyst hidden on the asari world? That assumes that researchers on Therum knew what the ones on March where doing. Or? Or was it Prothean researches that snook some useful info out to March? 

Also i never understood how they were able to dock it with the citadel... Why wouldn't the reapers just take it down? If they didnt, that implies that the Reapers lost the battle... But that the reapers couldn't lose conventionally was the entire premise of the series? 

Or did Admiral hacket do a Houdini and magically sneak it into the citadel? 

Also; How did they build it so fast? 1 month, it was almost as big as the citadel.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[blooregard]

[quote]SyyRaaaN wrote...[/quote]



[quote]How did the Protheans gain knowledge of this tool? According to Vigil their ability to use the relaysystem made them isolated from each other which made them easy pray . How could the March colony have this data; Why was there daya hidden on the asari world? [/quote]

The Reaper-Prothean war lasted hundreds of years. Its safe to assume the Protheans began looking for a way to stop the Reapers the same way the humans and all the other races looked for a way to do it. As for why there was a becon on Thessia its probably the same reason there was a becon on Mars and Eden Prime.

[quote]Also i never understood how they were able to dock it with the citadel... Why wouldn't the reapers just take it down? If they didnt, that implies that the Reapers lost the battle... But that the reapers couldn't lose conventionally was the entire premise of the series?

Or did Admiral hacket do a Houdini and magically sneak it into the citadel? [/quote]

As to how they docked it the best way I can think of it is when they got the data they needed that pretty much did the work for them in docking it with the Citadel. The reapers didn't stop them because TIM was going to use it to gain control of the Reapers (something that would have been meaningless because he was indoctronated). Hackett didn't houdini onto the Citadel he simply used the data gathered from the Prothean VI to assist in docking the crucible with the Citadel.

[quote]Also; How did they build it so fast? 1 month, it was almost as big as the citadel. [/quote]

I don't think it was a 1 month time span maybe more along the lines of a couple months. As to how it was built so fast they had countless workers working on it around the clock the Geth, the Rachni, the Quarians just about anybody that knew what they were doing when it came to building stuff so with that many workers working on it constantly construction of it would have been fairly quick. And no it was not almost as big as the Citadel maybe closer to a quarter of one of the arms.

[/quote]

[SyyRaaaN]

This story makes no sense at all tbh.

Why would the Reapers want TIM to control them? They control him, so they want him to control them so they can be controlled by one that they already control? O_o

Also, what i meant with Houdini is; Why didn't the Reapers attack it? They didn't see that huge thing that they knew were coming? Or they wanted it to dock? But then why would the Reapers put up a fight at all then? O_o

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Jayaa]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

This story makes no sense at all tbh.

Why would the Reapers want TIM to control them? They control him, so they want him to control them so they can be controlled by one that they already control? O_o

Also, what i meant with Houdini is; Why didn't the Reapers attack it? They didn't see that huge thing that they knew were coming? Or they wanted it to dock? But then why would the Reapers put up a fight at all then? O_o

Your questions ARE NOW DIAMONDS.

(honestly, this is why people are having a hard time of the endings, the lack of explanation).

[Archereon]

Jayaa wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

This story makes no sense at all tbh.

Why would the Reapers want TIM to control them? They control him, so they want him to control them so they can be controlled by one that they already control? O_o

Also, what i meant with Houdini is; Why didn't the Reapers attack it? They didn't see that huge thing that they knew were coming? Or they wanted it to dock? But then why would the Reapers put up a fight at all then? O_o

Your questions ARE NOW DIAMONDS.

(honestly, this is why people are having a hard time of the endings, the lack of explanation).

Because it would seem suspicious otherwise if they just stopped fighting?

Modifié par Archereon, 10 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Sajuro]

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

[blooregard]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

This story makes no sense at all tbh.

Why would the Reapers want TIM to control them? They control him, so they want him to control them so they can be controlled by one that they already control? O_o

Also, what i meant with Houdini is; Why didn't the Reapers attack it? They didn't see that huge thing that they knew were coming? Or they wanted it to dock? But then why would the Reapers put up a fight at all then? O_o

With TIM "controlling" the Reapers they'd be free to continue their cycles they figured give the races a glimmer of hope in not destroying the crucible that way when it fired off the control blast everyone would have thought they won just to find out nothing happened except the mass relays were destroyed along with the Citadel and the crucible ultimately winning the war for the Reapers since the organtic races would have had no way to escape them due to lack of relays. Ultimately all the reapers would have to do is reassemble the relays and the Citadel something machines would have little to no problem with.

[Pandaman102]

Could just be they had Quantum Entanglement Communicators like Shepard had on the Normandy, except much more prevalent. That would have allowed for communication without access to relays and a coordinated effort to build warning beacons across all Prothean cities.

That seems to contradict the whole losing-central-government-and-failing-to-coordinate part of the Reaper's strategy, but a fracture in military efforts doesn't automatically translate into a collapse of scientific ventures.

Also we have no idea how long Protheans live or the speed of their ships, it might have taken them a few years to travel from system to system without the relays, but the war lasted centuries, so there was plenty of time for the scenic route.

[blooregard]

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

(sorry for possible double post)

several of the capital ship reapers left the main fleet engagment to stop Shepard and friends from getting to the Citadel TIM would have still been there to open the station causing the races to think shepard was successful then the crucible would have been activated by TIM and would have been total defeat for all the races.

[SyyRaaaN]

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

[SyyRaaaN]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Could just be they had Quantum Entanglement Communicators like Shepard had on the Normandy, except much more prevalent. That would have allowed for communication without access to relays and a coordinated effort to build warning beacons across all Prothean cities.

That seems to contradict the whole losing-central-government-and-failing-to-coordinate part of the Reaper's strategy, but a fracture in military efforts doesn't automatically translate into a collapse of scientific ventures.

Also we have no idea how long Protheans live or the speed of their ships, it might have taken them a few years to travel from system to system without the relays, but the war lasted centuries, so there was plenty of time for the scenic route.

Ah yes. This could be possible. Sure. Should have been explained in something like that manner imho. Would have strengthed the Curible story in my eyes.

[blooregard]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

It was probably sealed for transportation and they assumed wait until the crucible was there to have TIM open it to make it look like everything was good.

[SyyRaaaN]

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

It was probably sealed for transportation and they assumed wait until the crucible was there to have TIM open it to make it look like everything was good.

Sorry, but i don't understand this part. So the Reapers has indoctrinated TIM so much that he almost looks like a husk. The guardian even says that he couldn't have controlled them because they already controlled him.

But yet someone is doing some dubious scheme with TIM to sneak the Crucible into the citadel so that it looks that Shepard succeded with his plan; So that they could be controlled by the guy they allready control, that the Guardian said cant control the Reapers since he is already controled??? '

Now im lost for sure

[blooregard]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

It was probably sealed for transportation and they assumed wait until the crucible was there to have TIM open it to make it look like everything was good.

Sorry, but i don't understand this part. So the Reapers has indoctrinated TIM so much that he almost looks like a husk. The guardian even says that he couldn't have controlled them because they already controlled him.

But yet someone is doing some dubious scheme with TIM to sneak the Crucible into the citadel so that it looks that Shepard succeded with his plan; So that they could be controlled by the guy they allready control, that the Guardian said cant control the Reapers since he is already controled??? '

Now im lost for sure

Alright I'll try and explain this to the best of my ability.

TIM has always had an "extreme" view of humanity and the galaxy (simmilar to Saren) you can tell he became indoctronated when he went from defeating the Reapers to control them (assuming he wasn't indoctronated beforehand). Anyway because of this "extreme" view of humanity its safe to assume the reapers were able to eventually indoctronate him (probably some time late ME2 to pre ME3) this is why he went form stopping the Collectors/Reapers to keep the Collector base to control the Reapers. His ideals mixed with the reaper indoctronation made him view that controlling the reapers would have been the best possible outcome for human dominance in the galaxy. However because of the indoctronation when he would have gone to take control of the reapers his ideals would have been simmilar if not the same as the Reapers' intentions so TIM would have taken control of the Reapers believing allowing the Reapers to harvest all the advanced civilizations to be the ultimate goal for humanity. This is why the Reapers didn't attack the crucible when it showed up because they  intended for TIM to have activated it while the remains of the combined fleet would have thought that Shepard activated the crucible and defeated the Reapers but instead it would have been TIM taking control of the Reapers allowing the Reapers to continue their cycles of extinction.

[Gunzwei]

The Citadel is basically the deus ex machina of ME3.

-Cerberus attacks it which would be more or less impossible due to..
--It's Location.
--Citadel Fleet (which contains the Destiny Ascension).
--Citadel Defense Force (200,000+ individuals).
--Alliance, Asari, Turian, Spectre, Salarian, etc... all being stationed here.
--The first response of an attack on the Citadel is to...according to ME1.
----Evacuate the Council.
----Close the Arms.
--Saren had to use Sovereign, Geth Fleet, and the Conduit to attack the Citadel due to the above.

Reapers, Sol, Crucible/Citadel Bermuda Triangle.
-- Reapers take over Citadel without any problems.
-- The Citadel is never stated to actually have a propulsion system as it is not a "ship".
-- Citadel defies all laws of reason and ends up in Sol.
-- TIM teleports across the galaxy and into the Citadel.
-- Reapers ignore Crucible being placed on Citadel.
-- Reapers build space elevator from Earth to Citadel to make Soylent Reapers.
-- The above ignores the fact that the Citadel had millions of people on it already.

[SyyRaaaN]

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

It was probably sealed for transportation and they assumed wait until the crucible was there to have TIM open it to make it look like everything was good.

Sorry, but i don't understand this part. So the Reapers has indoctrinated TIM so much that he almost looks like a husk. The guardian even says that he couldn't have controlled them because they already controlled him.

But yet someone is doing some dubious scheme with TIM to sneak the Crucible into the citadel so that it looks that Shepard succeded with his plan; So that they could be controlled by the guy they allready control, that the Guardian said cant control the Reapers since he is already controled??? '

Now im lost for sure

Alright I'll try and explain this to the best of my ability.

TIM has always had an "extreme" view of humanity and the galaxy (simmilar to Saren) you can tell he became indoctronated when he went from defeating the Reapers to control them (assuming he wasn't indoctronated beforehand). Anyway because of this "extreme" view of humanity its safe to assume the reapers were able to eventually indoctronate him (probably some time late ME2 to pre ME3) this is why he went form stopping the Collectors/Reapers to keep the Collector base to control the Reapers. His ideals mixed with the reaper indoctronation made him view that controlling the reapers would have been the best possible outcome for human dominance in the galaxy. However because of the indoctronation when he would have gone to take control of the reapers his ideals would have been simmilar if not the same as the Reapers' intentions so TIM would have taken control of the Reapers believing allowing the Reapers to harvest all the advanced civilizations to be the ultimate goal for humanity. This is why the Reapers didn't attack the crucible when it showed up because they  intended for TIM to have activated it while the remains of the combined fleet would have thought that Shepard activated the crucible and defeated the Reapers but instead it would have been TIM taking control of the Reapers allowing the Reapers to continue their cycles of extinction.

Interesting; what ur saying actually make some sense. But... The i assume that the cruicible hasn't been built before. Because the Guardian said the the cruicible changed it... That implies it was the first time it happened. So what happened is that there is now two new options? Destroy stnthetics and synthesis as opposed to only control before (without the cruicible)?

So then this thesis is true: The gurdian needs a indoctrinated husk to be able to control the Reapers the next cycle which has to be renewed each time? 

But why would the Reapers/Guardian even want to let the cruicible dock just to know what happens? How did it know about its intentions to let it dock? As far it would have known it could have been the fattest nuclear bomb. There is no rationale behind it letting it dock... unless it knew it was the cruicible, but how would it know, is it omnicent? 


But when i watch the dialogue between TIM/Anderson/Shep none of this makes sense...

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[SyyRaaaN]

Gunzwei wrote...

The Citadel is basically the deus ex machina of ME3.

-Cerberus attacks it which would be more or less impossible due to..
--It's Location.
--Citadel Fleet (which contains the Destiny Ascension).
--Citadel Defense Force (200,000+ individuals).
--Alliance, Asari, Turian, Spectre, Salarian, etc... all being stationed here.
--The first response of an attack on the Citadel is to...according to ME1.
----Evacuate the Council.
----Close the Arms.
--Saren had to use Sovereign, Geth Fleet, and the Conduit to attack the Citadel due to the above.

Reapers, Sol, Crucible/Citadel Bermuda Triangle.
-- Reapers take over Citadel without any problems.
-- The Citadel is never stated to actually have a propulsion system as it is not a "ship".
-- Citadel defies all laws of reason and ends up in Sol.
-- TIM teleports across the galaxy and into the Citadel.
-- Reapers ignore Crucible being placed on Citadel.
-- Reapers build space elevator from Earth to Citadel to make Soylent Reapers.
-- The above ignores the fact that the Citadel had millions of people on it already.

This is what I mean. Really, now i have at least 50 new questions... I'd consider this/these a severe plot hole and a plot inconsisentency.

We need a bioware priest to come here and explain the story about the cruicible.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[blooregard]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

blooregard wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Didn't several capital ship class Reapers leave the fight to ruin Shepard's day and that Shield fleet escorted the Crucible? things are much easier if you pay attention.

We can see many Reapers from the windows in the Citadel. They were already up there. Also TIM warned them about the plans or? no? Thats why they moved the Citadel... But if they moved it to protect it near Earth... Why ditch it like fools going after Shepard. I only saw 1 reaper do that, presumably Harbinger.

Basically; the only conclusion i can see is that the Reapers let it dock on purpose. But why? And if they wanted it to dock, why not just spread the Citadels legs and let the thing penetrate it? O_o


Also, shield fleet assumes that combined fleet (human/asari/blabla) have superior firepower so they can actually protect it. Combined fleet is strong enough to defend the cruicable allthough this was where the Reapers had the bulk of their forces?

It was probably sealed for transportation and they assumed wait until the crucible was there to have TIM open it to make it look like everything was good.

Sorry, but i don't understand this part. So the Reapers has indoctrinated TIM so much that he almost looks like a husk. The guardian even says that he couldn't have controlled them because they already controlled him.

But yet someone is doing some dubious scheme with TIM to sneak the Crucible into the citadel so that it looks that Shepard succeded with his plan; So that they could be controlled by the guy they allready control, that the Guardian said cant control the Reapers since he is already controled??? '

Now im lost for sure

Alright I'll try and explain this to the best of my ability.

TIM has always had an "extreme" view of humanity and the galaxy (simmilar to Saren) you can tell he became indoctronated when he went from defeating the Reapers to control them (assuming he wasn't indoctronated beforehand). Anyway because of this "extreme" view of humanity its safe to assume the reapers were able to eventually indoctronate him (probably some time late ME2 to pre ME3) this is why he went form stopping the Collectors/Reapers to keep the Collector base to control the Reapers. His ideals mixed with the reaper indoctronation made him view that controlling the reapers would have been the best possible outcome for human dominance in the galaxy. However because of the indoctronation when he would have gone to take control of the reapers his ideals would have been simmilar if not the same as the Reapers' intentions so TIM would have taken control of the Reapers believing allowing the Reapers to harvest all the advanced civilizations to be the ultimate goal for humanity. This is why the Reapers didn't attack the crucible when it showed up because they  intended for TIM to have activated it while the remains of the combined fleet would have thought that Shepard activated the crucible and defeated the Reapers but instead it would have been TIM taking control of the Reapers allowing the Reapers to continue their cycles of extinction.

Interesting; what ur saying actually make some sense. But... The i assume that the cruicible hasn't been built before. Because the Guardian said the the cruicible changed it... That implies it was the first time it happened. So what happened is that there is now two new options? Destroy stnthetics and synthesis as opposed to only control before (without the cruicible)?

So then this thesis is true: The gurdian needs a indoctrinated husk to be able to control the Reapers the next cycle which has to be renewed each time? 

But why would the Reapers/Guardian even want to let the cruicible dock just to know what happens? How did it know about its intentions to let it dock? As far it would have known it could have been the fattest nuclear bomb. There is no rationale behind it letting it dock... unless it knew it was the cruicible, but how would it know, is it omnicent? 


But when i watch the dialogue between TIM/Anderson/Shep none of this makes sense...

Not exactly. See by ME3 TIM was indoctronated there was no question his pro-human ideals helped in "shaping" his indoctronation. My best explaination was his indoctronated "pro-human ideals" allowed him to think he could bring about human dominance through controlling the Reapers...however the expirements into trying to control the Reapers were just creating new husks and indoctronating more troops for Cerberus. To sum up Cerberus in ME3 they were meant to weaken and distract the races allowing the Reapers to conquer the galaxy quicker. That does open up the question as to why Reaper forces were trying to destroy sanctuary a possible answer is they were making quick progress and TIM needed further indoctronation in order for the Reaper plans to work. When TIM acquired the data for the crucible the Reapers probably realized that without sanctuary by the time the crucible would have been completed TIM would have been indoctronated enough to asure a Reaper victory. I wouldn't say the Reapers need a fresh host per cycle more then I'd say the Reapers realized the potential threat of the crucible and having an indoctronated slave activate it would eliminate the crucible as a threat and trap all the organtic races in what ever cluster they were in ultimately whiping out all advanced life in the galaxy

[Eumerin]

blooregard wrote...
As for why there was a becon on Thessia its probably the same reason there was a becon on Mars and Eden Prime.

The Prothean squad member actually answers this.  He doesn't specifically address the beacon on Thessia, but he and Liara get into an argument in which he flat out states that the Protheans specifically picked the Asari as the race that would lead the fight against the Reapers.  The Protheans expected the Asari to recognize the threat of the Reapers and to take advantage of the knowledge that had been left behind to advance far enough quickly enough to put up a credible fight against the Reapers at the end of the next cycle.

Obviously, things didn't quite work out as expected...

[John Locke N7]

i dont want to post in the middle but, to anser how hacket got it in there....

i thought the reapers where all pulling back to earth to stop shepard or something

[MrChowderClam]

I think the crucible was a failsafe designed by the original creators of the reapers. Whenever a civilization became advanced enough to build and deploy it, it was an indication that the "solution" of the reapers wouldn't work anymore. This is further supported by the fact that the Crucible requires the Catalyst (supposedly the master of the reapers) in order to function.

So the way I see it, the crucible isn't something handed down by countless species - it's something planted deliberately by the reapers at the start of each cycle. If a cycle is advanced enough to create and deploy it, then the Catalyst knows that the reapers are no longer viable and guides the new vanguard (in this case, shepard) in the creation of the new solution. So in effect, shepard becomes the new catalyst.

So in terms of the 3 endings:
- Control - shepard becomes the new catalyst, and chooses to continue the cycle of the reapers.
- Destroy - shepard chooses to trust the symbiosis of organic and synthetic life to figure out their own solution.
- Synthesis - shepard ensures that the organic/synthetic conflict does not continue by merging the two together.

Modifié par MrChowderClam, 10 mars 2012 - 06:08 .

[SyyRaaaN]

MrChowderClam wrote...

I think the crucible was a failsafe designed by the original creators of the reapers. Whenever a civilization became advanced enough to build and deploy it, it was an indication that the "solution" of the reapers wouldn't work anymore. This is further supported by the fact that the Crucible requires the Catalyst (supposedly the master of the reapers) in order to function.

So the way I see it, the crucible isn't something handed down by countless species - it's something planted deliberately by the reapers at the start of each cycle. If a cycle is advanced enough to create and deploy it, then the Catalyst knows that the reapers are no longer viable and guides the new vanguard (in this case, shepard) in the creation of the new solution. So in effect, shepard becomes the new catalyst.

So in terms of the 3 endings:
- Control - shepard becomes the new catalyst, and chooses to continue the cycle of the reapers.
- Destroy - shepard chooses to trust the symbiosis of organic and synthetic life to figure out their own solution.
- Synthesis - shepard ensures that the organic/synthetic conflict does not continue by merging the two together.

I like this explanation somehow. It could have worked if it was explained in-game. But if it as you say, why doesn't the Cataclyst end all hostilies? It learns that the cruicible is done by the TIM earlier. Thats why the reapers move it to earth, to defend it from the cruicible... If your rationalization is true - then the citadel should have welcomed the crucible, instead.

So why does it go to such lengths to avoid it?

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

SyyRaaaN wrote...

MrChowderClam wrote...

I think the crucible was a failsafe designed by the original creators of the reapers. Whenever a civilization became advanced enough to build and deploy it, it was an indication that the "solution" of the reapers wouldn't work anymore. This is further supported by the fact that the Crucible requires the Catalyst (supposedly the master of the reapers) in order to function.

So the way I see it, the crucible isn't something handed down by countless species - it's something planted deliberately by the reapers at the start of each cycle. If a cycle is advanced enough to create and deploy it, then the Catalyst knows that the reapers are no longer viable and guides the new vanguard (in this case, shepard) in the creation of the new solution. So in effect, shepard becomes the new catalyst.

So in terms of the 3 endings:
- Control - shepard becomes the new catalyst, and chooses to continue the cycle of the reapers.
- Destroy - shepard chooses to trust the symbiosis of organic and synthetic life to figure out their own solution.
- Synthesis - shepard ensures that the organic/synthetic conflict does not continue by merging the two together.

I like this explanation somehow. It could have worked if it was explained in-game. But if it as you say, why doesn't the Cataclyst end all hostilies? It learns that the cruicible is done by the TIM earlier. Thats why the reapers move it to earth, to defend it from the cruicible... If your rationalization is true - then the citadel should have welcomed the crucible, instead.

So why does it go to such lengths to avoid it?


PS.
I love this kind of sci-fi. But this needs to be explained, explored and done with a thick plot. Not in the setting of ME2 or ME3 (which was all action).

That's not an 'I think'. They say in the game, the Crucible is designed by whoever designed the Reapers. It's a way to gauge organic life's adapting to the Cycle. Basically if organic life is ever able to deploy the Crucible, then the Reapers and the Cycle either is no longer or soon will no longer be viable, and so a new solution is required.

The Catalyst then offers a number of new solutions, since the Cycle won't work. Destroy all synthetics, tell Reapers to leave because you think synthetics and organics can live in peace, or the 'merge'.

[SyyRaaaN]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

SyyRaaaN wrote...

MrChowderClam wrote...

I think the crucible was a failsafe designed by the original creators of the reapers. Whenever a civilization became advanced enough to build and deploy it, it was an indication that the "solution" of the reapers wouldn't work anymore. This is further supported by the fact that the Crucible requires the Catalyst (supposedly the master of the reapers) in order to function.

So the way I see it, the crucible isn't something handed down by countless species - it's something planted deliberately by the reapers at the start of each cycle. If a cycle is advanced enough to create and deploy it, then the Catalyst knows that the reapers are no longer viable and guides the new vanguard (in this case, shepard) in the creation of the new solution. So in effect, shepard becomes the new catalyst.

So in terms of the 3 endings:
- Control - shepard becomes the new catalyst, and chooses to continue the cycle of the reapers.
- Destroy - shepard chooses to trust the symbiosis of organic and synthetic life to figure out their own solution.
- Synthesis - shepard ensures that the organic/synthetic conflict does not continue by merging the two together.

I like this explanation somehow. It could have worked if it was explained in-game. But if it as you say, why doesn't the Cataclyst end all hostilies? It learns that the cruicible is done by the TIM earlier. Thats why the reapers move it to earth, to defend it from the cruicible... If your rationalization is true - then the citadel should have welcomed the crucible, instead.

So why does it go to such lengths to avoid it?


PS.
I love this kind of sci-fi. But this needs to be explained, explored and done with a thick plot. Not in the setting of ME2 or ME3 (which was all action).

That's not an 'I think'. They say in the game, the Crucible is designed by whoever designed the Reapers. It's a way to gauge organic life's adapting to the Cycle. Basically if organic life is ever able to deploy the Crucible, then the Reapers and the Cycle either is no longer or soon will no longer be viable, and so a new solution is required.

The Catalyst then offers a number of new solutions, since the Cycle won't work. Destroy all synthetics, tell Reapers to leave because you think synthetics and organics can live in peace, or the 'merge'.

Then i consider it a plot hole or inconsistency. Because the Prothean VI says that the Reapers will protect the citadel from the cruicible at all costs. Obviously they did not. Instead they chose a miserable strategy that i simply don't accept. Thats not a good plot. Also the Prothean VI says that it was designed and developed by several different cycles, all adding their own part. This implies that it wasn't schematics left over from the constructors of the Reapers, but instead something new. This is unexplained...

Also within the story told in ME3 the Reapers do everything they can to prevent it from accessing the Citadel. Its only when Shepard enters the magic room + the Citadel is docked the Guardian seem to accept that the cycle is broken or flawed.

But the only reason it became broken is because they did such a miserable job defending the citadel. That is in my opinion ununderstandable. I cannot accept that rationale tbh. But thank you all for your great input! 


EDIT: You say the schematics to the cruicible was deliberately given to us by the reapers, but the Prothean VI doesnt state that nor does the Guardian, where did you get that info from? 

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 10 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Why would the Prothean VI know? The Protheans thought it was a weapon too. You only find out its true purpose when it's finally activated.