149 réponses à ce sujet

[Abirn]

Not for me. His death would have been just fine if they actually answered some questions.

[kramerfan86]

Absolutely not, had he died with anderson peacefully gazing out at Earth it would have been a touching sacrifice like Mordin's

[Nobrandminda]

Archereon wrote...

After watching all of the endings on youtube, I'm starting to wonder if the reason everyone is so mad is that pretty much every ending results in Shepard's death, above pretty much every other reason is being tossed around.


Imagine this scenario: If you're able to get enough assets for the war, Anderson ends up with you before the catalyst, and you're capable of choosing who makes the sacrifice for the Control and Synthesis endings. That would have the effect of opening up those two endings to players who don't want Shepard to die.

While Joker and the Normandy's crew being stranded somewhere is unpleasent, the ending leaves that open; it's entirely possible that they could eventually be rescued, particularly in the synthesis ending in which they may be immortal or at least longer lived than normal.

Thoughts?

There are any number of problems with the ending, and people are free to theorize about which one is the "real" or biggest problem.  Personally I don't think Shepard dying is the problem.  The reason why people have reacted negatively to that is because of how poorly it was handled.  You don't get a chance to see how his friends and loved ones react to him dying, and that's a big problem in a character driven story.

In my opinion, these are the three biggest problems, in this order from biggest to smallest:

1.  The ending doesn't fit the story.  It's like if Return of the Jedi had the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey.  If all of a sudden Luke was beamed up to a higher plain of existance to save the rebellion, you wouldn't know what to think.  You'd have walked out of the theater going, "The hell just happened?"

2.  The ending is vague/poorly told.  It is just not made clear what happened.  For all we know, Joker and company are in fact the only survivers of the fleet that assulted earth, because it's unclear what exactly the red/blue/green beam of light did to the other ships in the area.

3.  No choices.  The three main endings are far to similar to each other to each other for a series that allows people to choose their own story.  ME2 did a much better job of making you feel like all of your decisions leading up to the end of the game mattered.  Even ME1, which, much like this game, only had the one major decision during the climax, made the paragon and renegade ending distinctive enough that it felt like there were two different outcomes even though essentially the same thing happened (a fleet of ships destroy Soveregn.)

[humes spork]

phoenixds24 wrote...

This is truly one of the worst endings I have ever seen in a video game.

HEY SHEP THANKS.

FOR KILLING REAPERS.

LET'S GO FOR

A BURGER . . . .

HA! HA! HA! HA!

[Still woulda been better...at least then we could all have a laugh at the humor and congratulate Bioware for a well-played epic troll.]

[Foulpancake]

No my problem with the ending was that we were told our actions would shape the world, shape the outcome and shape the ending. They didn't. Where was my option to disappear into the stars with Liara like she had hinted at? I would have done it. I wanted the ending that let Shepard live happily ever after with her. I worked for it because i was told i COULD, because it would be MY choice.

But it wasn't, it had never been my choice. THAT'S my problem with the endings.

[masseffectinglife]

Cheated yes. What about the missions with the AI hacking in the DLC and on Malstram with Tali and the aging star. There are ways to kill geth right there. but having TIM kill himself like in 1 and then to have a cheap 'win' card at the end.

I'll say again, everything about the game but the last 15 mins was epic. I loved the characters talking to each other and building up and Conrad Verner was EPIC funny. But way to blow the end.
Even the Mulitplayer won me over. but mer. I've actually thought bioware was the pixar of gaming. But now they made their 'cars 2' movie. Maybe some fans will be able to mod out he ending and make a new one.

[GennadiosMxms]

Biotic Sage wrote...

GennadiosMxms wrote...

No, the real problem with the endings is that everything Shepherd fought 5 years for was made null and moot by the endings. One of the endings came sort of close to being proper, but I'm not very happy with what it did to the Geth and EDI.

I don't think many people really expected survival.

You aren't happy with what it did to them, but "Many decisions lie ahead.  None of them easy."  That's the cost of getting rid of the Reapers once and for all.  And while I didn't want to harm EDI or the Geth personally, I still made that decision.  And that's why it's a great ending.  Because there's no easy decision, you agonize over them all.

There was more to it than that, the hard decisions that lay ahed were already well handled by the Geth/Quarian ark, now THAT was a great resolution. What irks me was the whole Deus Ex Machina of the endgame, I hated the kid in the airduct with a burning passion from the get-go, but the end sealed the deal. There was no need for the Standard Bioware 3 Switches Morally Ambiguous Twist Ending™ because plenty of hard decisions were already made during the the previous tours. I get the sense that long term players just wanted to see how it all came together in the end. The introduction of a twist this late in the endgame may work for people just picking up the series, but existing players who took issue with it had good reason. The hard choices already made were trivialized at a point where closure and satisfaction were what was needed.

[astrophyzcs]

wolfsite wrote...

astrophyzcs wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

So Shep lives in the renegade ending if you have wicked high assets... It still leaves hope for him to rescue his team and LI.

I doubt it, Shepard is stranded in space with no atmosphere and almost everyone beleives he.she died on earth (You can hear people screaming it on the radio)  Shepard would die of Asphixiation before anyonr would find him/her.

lolwut. When do you hear these supposed cries that Shepard is dead on the radio? Maybe I missed that bit.

When Shepard was just coming too I know I heard someone screaming Shepards dead..... I'm not going to check though..... Can't bring myself to play the game again after that.

Haha, I'm with you there. As curious as I am, definitely not in any rush to find out myself.

[paynesgrey]

The whole "catalyst" thing is like one of those gawdawful "star child" scams where a writer just doesn't have the time or wits to make a conventional ending that works. Like angels in Battlestar Galactica.

I admit, I'd like to have had the shot at some endings where Shepherd survives, but there's no real differentiation between the endings. No feeling that my choices, my work at building resources, really mattered, it all came down to a pre-cut, "choose your own adventure" style ending, where things turn out largely the same no matter what you did. Yeah, this or that race might or might not be extinct, but in any case all the survivors are pretty much mired in a world of suck.

[DuxViridis]

I'm going to agree with many of posts above: Shepard can die. In fact, it makes sense for Shepard to die. Hell, it makes sense for most of the Normandy crew to die. What doesn't make sense is to be given a choice (which in of itself is a bit Deus Ex Machina-y, but I can let that go), but then show us no meaningful effect of that change, even short term, on a galactic scale. Reapers go away, but what happens to the aliens in Sol? Where are the surviving Normandy crew?  Hell who are the surviving crew, other than Joker, LI and possibly EDI?

ME2's sad ending, the one where everyone dies, is a poignant end with closure. ME3's best ending is not.

Modifié par DuxViridis, 10 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[demoneo]

I actually find the ending pretty well done. I guess the only part which could be done better is instead of normandy speeding off in FTL, if they shown normandy crash land back on Earth, and the crew standing around the wreckage with the rest of the leftover Hammer team looking at the sky and the exploding citadel. That would have made it even better, and i guess quell some of the whining here on the net.

[Rheinlandman]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nah. What happens to Shepard is only the tip of the iceberg.

The problem is that a lot of what was there didn't need to be there, and what should have been there was entirely absent. The ending may have worked if it had provided more information and fit with the rest of the trilogy. As it stands, however, it's very much a square peg in a round hole.

Made of poo.

With "JC + Helios wuz hear" scribbled on the side

This, though the reason it works for Deus Ex vs ME is how the story is meant to play out.  The Deus Ex story is all about the decision in the end, you're observations of the world and reactions to it are supposed to form what you believe to be the appopriate answer for your character and the world.  Deus Ex was always highly philosophical in this manner.

I always felt the Mass Effect series was about numerous choices culminating in one large solution (to the Reaper problem).  The Deus Ex manner of ending the story was completely innappropriate,  we formulated opinions and ideas that have little if anything to do with the options presented.  While the Reapers were the ultimate enemy we spent far more time concerning ourselves with Krogan vs Salarian and Quarian vs Geth concepts.  By which medium we choose to destroy the Reapers was inconsquential.

Its like they wanted to convey this philosophical concept on man vs machine but left it largely alone until the end.   Geth vs Quarian was far more about freedom vs slavery and acts of redemption and forgiveness than Synthetic vs Organics.  Synthetic vs Organic was just the medium by which it was conveyed.

[MotorWaffle]

It made no sense-
shepard is about to die, and he get ascended to some citadel haven, with some mysterious citadel energy that gives him his three options, no matter what your actions were previously.
-Plus, having saved the collector base in ME2, I was surprised they barely even mentioned it.
-PLUS- If the illusive man was indroctrinated the whole time, why were they still able to party think for themselves to find ways to stop and control the reapers, but when the Iman talks to shepard on the citadel it sounded as though he was already a slave to the reapers? So what was the point of the rest of aklslfkaslkfn....

I tried to let some stuff slip, but seriously, this ending didnt tie anything up. Even if it is just to make an excuse to make more mass effect games, this story should have ended in its entirety at the end of this game- no holes, no loose ends. Which it did not.

[Archereon]

demoneo wrote...

I actually find the ending pretty well done. I guess the only part which could be done better is instead of normandy speeding off in FTL, if they shown normandy crash land back on Earth, and the crew standing around the wreckage with the rest of the leftover Hammer team looking at the sky and the exploding citadel. That would have made it even better, and i guess quell some of the whining here on the net.

Then we get the same problem star wars had, in that the exploding Citadel would completely destroy all life on Earth. 800 billion metric tons isn't just going to vanish, a lot of it's going to hit Earth, and we can kiss the planet goodbye. If anything, Joker and co are lucky NOT to be on Earth. I would have prefered to see them on mars or somewhere else where rescue doesn't seem absolutely inconcievable though.

Modifié par Archereon, 10 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[TeamLexana]

Just save the crew. I'd be happy then. Don't leave them stranded.

[Captain_Obvious]

For some of my Shepards, yes, the problem is that they die at the end. For other ones, not so much. The whole point is that whatever choices any of them have made, however over or under prepared, however paragon or renegade, and no matter any decision made, the choices are death, death, and mostly death. That's a cop out. I have really, really tried not to get caught up in hyperbole, but this is the most disappointing ending to any video game I have ever played. No choice made any difference in the outcome whatsoever.

I cried at the end of Red Dead Redemption, but the ending fit and I was satisfied. I cried when Mordin died, and when Wrex called my Shepard a sister to the Krogan. Shepard had a hand in shaping those two moments, but when it was most important that choice was removed from her grasp. Again, the choice was death, death, or mostly death.

[t003]

 I think the option for Shepard to live or die should be available to all endings. This series is all about choice, it should be your choice to end it how you see fit.

[demoneo]

Archereon wrote...

demoneo wrote...

I actually find the ending pretty well done. I guess the only part which could be done better is instead of normandy speeding off in FTL, if they shown normandy crash land back on Earth, and the crew standing around the wreckage with the rest of the leftover Hammer team looking at the sky and the exploding citadel. That would have made it even better, and i guess quell some of the whining here on the net.

Then we get the same problem star wars had, in that the exploding Citadel would completely destroy all life on Earth. 800 billion metric tons isn't just going to vanish, a lot of it's going to hit Earth, and we can kiss the planet goodbye. If anything, Joker and co are lucky NOT to be on Earth. I would have prefered to see them on mars or somewhere else where rescue doesn't seem absolutely inconcievable though.

It's a stationary object exploding in orbit, not a speeding asteroid crashing onto earth. But your version works as well.

[Akal Ashata Alis]

Deztyn wrote...

I was fine with the ending up until Shepard collapsed and met the Glowy God Child. Before that... I honestly thought that was the ending. Just her and Anderson dying on the Citadel together with a front row seat for the end of the Reapers. I had the passing thought that the Crucible would make the Citadel go Boom after. Or at the very least Shepard would bleed out. And I still thought it was awesome. Just two people who had done everything they could to save humanity finally sitting back and watching the end. Mission Complete.

What actually happened... I don't even have the words to describe my feelings on the ending.

When I hit that point I was like.... 'And here they are... at the end of the world...... ' It was a perfect moment, as you say, right up until the god thing showed up. Where it I, I would have written that scene to be Shep having to choose at the keyboard/console to kill the Reapers, 'Disable' the reapers (and the Geth and EDI), or let the fight play out (Alliance wins if high enough resources, loses with not enough) and Shep either living or dying based on choices made during the game.

But instead, it was like.... 'Sorry... none of it really matters.... '.

[Archereon]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

For some of my Shepards, yes, the problem is that they die at the end. For other ones, not so much. The whole point is that whatever choices any of them have made, however over or under prepared, however paragon or renegade, and no matter any decision made, the choices are death, death, and mostly death. That's a cop out. I have really, really tried not to get caught up in hyperbole, but this is the most disappointing ending to any video game I have ever played. No choice made any difference in the outcome whatsoever.

I cried at the end of Red Dead Redemption, but the ending fit and I was satisfied. I cried when Mordin died, and when Wrex called my Shepard a sister to the Krogan. Shepard had a hand in shaping those two moments, but when it was most important that choice was removed from her grasp. Again, the choice was death, death, or mostly death.

This is what I was really talking about. BioWare takes the ultimate choice (to live or to die) out of the player's hands, except for one ending which many people find morally abhorrent, or vastly inferior, minus Shepard's death, to the other endings. I'm getting the feeling that initially BioWare just planned on having Shepard die no matter what, but changed it when they realized how pissed people would be. If Anderson had been there to make the sacrifice, the ending wouldn't miraculously be good, but it would be adequete, since Shepard surviving implies he possibility of closure, even if it's only via personal interpretation. Ignoring the whole "endor holocaust" issue that the exploding citadel has, if the Normandy had crashed on Earth, and you saw crew memers who weren't dead looking up at the sky hopefully, the endings would be expotentially better. Hell, if it had ended with the crucible firing, and Shepard and Anderson on the citadel, their fates unknown, that would be better, since ne could interpret that they both lived happily ever after if they prefered.

[Biotic Sage]

GennadiosMxms wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

GennadiosMxms wrote...

No, the real problem with the endings is that everything Shepherd fought 5 years for was made null and moot by the endings. One of the endings came sort of close to being proper, but I'm not very happy with what it did to the Geth and EDI.

I don't think many people really expected survival.

You aren't happy with what it did to them, but "Many decisions lie ahead.  None of them easy."  That's the cost of getting rid of the Reapers once and for all.  And while I didn't want to harm EDI or the Geth personally, I still made that decision.  And that's why it's a great ending.  Because there's no easy decision, you agonize over them all.

There was more to it than that, the hard decisions that lay ahed were already well handled by the Geth/Quarian ark, now THAT was a great resolution. What irks me was the whole Deus Ex Machina of the endgame, I hated the kid in the airduct with a burning passion from the get-go, but the end sealed the deal. There was no need for the Standard Bioware 3 Switches Morally Ambiguous Twist Ending™ because plenty of hard decisions were already made during the the previous tours. I get the sense that long term players just wanted to see how it all came together in the end. The introduction of a twist this late in the endgame may work for people just picking up the series, but existing players who took issue with it had good reason. The hard choices already made were trivialized at a point where closure and satisfaction were what was needed.

It also may work for long time fans, like myself, since it did.  Also, how was that a "twist" ending?  It fit with everything we've seen so far.  The Reapers "preserving" organic civilizations before they reach their singularity.  Reapers doing their Reaping, but now we know why for sure.  Answering the question to their bottom line motivation isn't a twist.

[Tyrannotaur]

AxisEvolve wrote...

Shepard dying in the Merge ending was devastating. But it would have been so much more acceptable if his sacrifice meant more..

Too much bad came out of the endings. The Geth being wiped out with EDI, the Relays destroyed, the crew stranded forever. And along with that.. Shepard dies most of the time. The only good side effect was disabling the Reapers.

The decisions have so much negative impacts that it devalues the feeling of finally defeating the Reapers. The losses were too high for it to feel like a victory. I don't know about anyone else but I felt as if I failed as Commander Shepard, the worst part is there is no way to succeed.

The ending did not feel good. It should have.

Yeah I pretty much agree here.

Also a main problem I had was the fact that you spend 3 games getting to know all these great characters and you don't even get to find out what happens to them. It rubs me the wrong way for some reason. 

I am fine with Shepard dying, but I'd have liked to have seen a bit at the end where you see all the people you assembled on earth at a memorial service for Shepard to honor his sacrifice. The knowledge that Joker, Garrus, EDI, Tali, Chakwas, Ashley, etc are all alright would have made the ending way better. I want to know that Shepard saved them all for a reason and they aren't lost in space.  I wouldn't have minded the option of seeing Shepard alive and settled down with his LI. Just some kind of closure would be wonderful.

I think I had set my expectations way too high. I expected to see a big battle with Harbinger and instead you run from his lasers. Then the Showdown with TIM was a bit dissapointing. But the actual endings just left me with more unanswered questions. 

[Spectre_Shepard]

I expected to have to make a sacrifice toward the end, and was prepared for Shepard's death. It wasn't the fact that Shepard died that disappointed me, but that I really had no choice in the matter. Among other things.....

[magor1988x]

Archereon wrote...

After watching all of the endings on youtube, I'm starting to wonder if the reason everyone is so mad is that pretty much every ending results in Shepard's death, above pretty much every other reason is being tossed around.


Imagine this scenario: If you're able to get enough assets for the war, Anderson ends up with you before the catalyst, and you're capable of choosing who makes the sacrifice for the Control and Synthesis endings. That would have the effect of opening up those two endings to players who don't want Shepard to die.

While Joker and the Normandy's crew being stranded somewhere is unpleasent, the ending leaves that open; it's entirely possible that they could eventually be rescued, particularly in the synthesis ending in which they may be immortal or at least longer lived than normal.

Thoughts?

no it had nothing to do w/shepard dying it all had to do w/the feeling of "Well that was bloody pointless"

The problem lies with:
Who created the Reapers? The Catalyst? Great what is the Catalyst & who created it?

I liked the idea of Control vs Destroy that was fine... but all three options ended in such utter crud. And the depressing "All synthetic life blows no matter what" after spending HOURS just proving otherwise. (EDI & the Geth) what the hell?

Actually now that I think about it this series reminds me of the Matrix