149 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nah. What happens to Shepard is only the tip of the iceberg.

The problem is that a lot of what was there didn't need to be there, and what should have been there was entirely absent. The ending may have worked if it had provided more information and fit with the rest of the trilogy. As it stands, however, it's very much a square peg in a round hole.

Made of poo.

With "JC + Helios wuz hear" scribbled on the side

Word.

[JayTheWolf]

They should've ended the game with Anderson and Shepard dying on the Citadel. That would've been a perfect end as the Reapers are being destroyed by the Crucible.

But no. Bioware mucked up the entire ending.

Why make DLC for this if it's going to be pre-disaster? Who's going to buy a new character or a new mission when we all know the mass relays explode and Shepard dies (but even if s/he doesn't die, you can't play post-game anyway)?

[Almostfaceman]

IanPolaris wrote...

The fact Shep dies in most of the endings is not a problem at all (at least for me) [although a 'Disney' Shep lives to see his little blue girls might be nice]. The problem comes in several areas:

1. The endings aren't actually different.
2. The endings essentially destroy the Mass Effect universe. This means that NONE of Shepard's choices over the past three games actually matter. It's this that I think is really, really rubbing people the wrong way.
3. The ending feels like a posterior pull and seems completely contradictory to the feel and emphasis of the entire rest of the game (and series).

-Polaris

Edit 4. (I forgot one)  There is no sense of closure.  There is no sense that any of the decisions you made mattered or had an effect on the universe.  Way too many open/unanswered questions.

Righteous.

[SandTrout]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Akal Ashata Alis wrote...
When I hit that point I was like.... 'And here they are... at the end of the world...... ' It was a perfect moment, as you say, right up until the god thing showed up. Where it I, I would have written that scene to be Shep having to choose at the keyboard/console to kill the Reapers, 'Disable' the reapers (and the Geth and EDI), or let the fight play out (Alliance wins if high enough resources, loses with not enough) and Shep either living or dying based on choices made during the game. 

But instead, it was like.... 'Sorry... none of it really matters.... '.

I like this. I like this too much.
I loved seeing Shep and Anderson staring at Earth, and, were the game to play out like you say, it'd have been a more than perfect conclusion to the series in my eyes, because, up to that very moment, it still felt like Mass Effect, it still had me hooked, anxious to see what was going to happen next, crossing my fingers for an ending that I already knew wasn't going to happen.
Good post, really.

I agree as well. The ending would have be so much better if they had just not included the Guardian that it's rediculous that they added it.

Sitting there with Anderson, I was leaning back, smiling to myself and very satified. Then the Guardian shows up, and I'm like "WTF! serriously?" The Guardian is the 1, key thing, that ruined the ending.

[kalamity116]

It was a problem, but definitely not the only problem.

[Aeowyn]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Nah. What happens to Shepard is only the tip of the iceberg.

The problem is that a lot of what was there didn't need to be there, and what should have been there was entirely absent. The ending may have worked if it had provided more information and fit with the rest of the trilogy. As it stands, however, it's very much a square peg in a round hole.

Made of poo.

With "JC + Helios wuz hear" scribbled on the side

Going to agree with this post.

[bossk-office]

For me, Shepard’s death is the biggest problem.

I can watch a movie where the hero dies in the end. That’s just someone dying in a movie. May be sad – but I’ll get over it.

But in a game? That’s me dying. Bioware took my money, then they killed me.*

I believe they have fallen for the hype that their games are like movies. And they forgot the difference: how much more we get involved in a game, where we’re not just being told a story, we’re acting out a story. In a game, I bloody well want to feel I’m fighting for something. Now, all I can fight for is a 0.7 second cut scene of Shepard’s chest heaving in what might be death throes for all I know. As a result, I feel like crap.

I don’t think they deliberately set out to make hundreds of thousands of people miserable. What twisted mind would do that?

*) Hah! I sound like that paranoid Volus from Mass Effect 2!

[Almostfaceman]

His death isn't inevitable.

Let me try to explain this in another way.

Everything is fine until I get up there with Reaper Jesus. 

Then I'm slamming my head up against the wall in panic because I can't say what I've been able to say the entire series when someone tells me that organics and synthetics can't make it together.  Which of course is - "who are you to judge and pidgeon-hole us?"

Look, people would have been far more connected to the ending if we were able to sit up there and see if our choices led to victory against the Reapers. We could have watched the battle through our squad's eyes and the eyes of our other familiar Alliance friends.

The Cypher should have remained an energy source for the weapon, and the weapon should have remained a weapon. Being successful in building it and using it against the Reapers would have been much more satisfying - it would be a direct result of Shepard building the alliance and all the choices leading up to the alliance. I even think we should have been able to defeat the Reapers without the weapon, but at a much higher cost in lives.

I think yes, Shepard's "inevitable" death is a problem - even if "alive" he is in no way connected to his squad or anything, so any meaning is gone, as we've been told this is the end of the story. There should be a way for him to live and re-connect with his squad in some way. In death, he should also be able to be mourned by his squad. This maintains the connection we've been building for three games. Three frakkin' games.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 10 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[bluecuban]

Honestly, I feel like the ending isn't about Shepard's death at all. I remember in Dragon Age: Origins when my character sacrificed himself how epic that made me feel. In Mass Effect 2 it's more about feeling like everything that came before was meaningless.

Did you ever watch Battlestar Galactica (the newest one)? In the series, the epilogue fast-forwards to the future (our present), and basically all the built-up characters and appreciations, and their choices, were meaningless. Mass Effect 3 does this exact same thing. When the game ends you get this ending that made all your decisions meaningless because it doesn't really change the grand scheme of things.

Think about how many games you've played where in the game world's history you hear about this civilization that was destroyed and such (think about the Protheans).

When you're playing Mass Effect, you don't want to play as a Prothean - traveling everywhere and enslaving species into your Empire and making plans to attack the Reapers only to inevitably see your whole species and Empire wiped out. No, you want to play as the species that eventually succeeds where others have failed.

In regards to Shepard's death though, there's also the issue of you playing his role. Sure, it's great playing the role of him and seeing your death and making this impeccable sacrifice. What was that sacrifice worth? Like I said when it came to Dragon Age, I was happy dying, seeing the first words I hear from my Dwarf being him yelling as he stabs the end-boss. However, Dragon Age gave me an epilogue where I could hear about my comrads creating a better world to honor my sacrifice. Did Mass Effect do that? Did I get to hear about Liara using her intel to take down Cerberus remains, or Kasumi using the Graybox to tear down the Alliance?

Quite frankly, Shepard, living or dying, matter little in the hate for the ending. Well, at least in my opinion.

[Jackal82]

panchamkauns wrote...

I don’t think they deliberately set out to make hundreds of thousands of people miserable. What twisted mind would do that?

Well considering how people are now willing to pay for a DLC to fix the ending it sounds like good idea to me, nothings better than getting paid to fix your own mistake.

[Elishiaila]

Archereon wrote...

After watching all of the endings on youtube, I'm starting to wonder if the reason everyone is so mad is that pretty much every ending results in Shepard's death, no matter your choices or readiness, above pretty much every other reason is being tossed around.

No, the issue I have is with railroading.While in mid game, you forget some limits, forget how your path is narrowed down the next moment thanks to immersion, in the end you notice and remember the problems. I think I can name better endings that would make sense even as DLCs. So some good options are left out.

I don't have a problem with lack of final boss fight. You don't have any real bossfights, or new surprising monsters on the Earth, as the reaper is just dies from using an item. But most people prepare for that moment, and when they don't get it they feel some void. And if they are unhappy with that, they won't like the endings. Simply because they don't want to like them. It is a New Coke syndrome.

While Bioware follows their vision closely and it makes it excellent if you follow it closely, they fail to back it up with solid reasoning. And they ignore the peace with Geth.

What we see isn't a heroic sacrifice. As Shepard either forces a change on everything, commits genocide (reapers, geth, etc), or controls others by force. As a hero who represents hope, some freedom, cooperation, etc. not even trying something else isn't heroic. It feels stupid, and the consequences (many creatures stranded, normandy crash, etc) makes it look like: it is pointless.

The civilizations, the cultures, the society she tried to preserve is destroyed no matter what. As key elements are destroyed from it. We just see new and different civilizations.

If you destroy: Reapers, mass relays are gone. So civilization moves back in time, all the alliances you set up are gone. Many will die and starve to death. Most of your work is undone. You commited genocide against many races, you became what you tried to stop.

If you control: As you see something happens with mass relays anyway, and if you see the video with the kid you hear they don't have space travel, so it vanished. Again we get back to the similar state. Yet instead of genocide, you just control things. Like indoctrination.

Synergy: All the races and cultures you knew are replaced by new hybrid races, it changes personalities, etc. and destroys all the civilizations. You didn't win, but you turned people into hybrids (like Husks, etc). Again: You don't something you seeked to stop, and their "synthetic thinking" that represent controlled order is like converting them to reapers.

Knowing that Protheans without cooperations lasted for 100 years, and with cooperation you can destroy more reapers can save more time, build and have a chace to discovery some ways to win. It would leave hope open. But you, the hero, the legend just destroy all the hope, because developers don't even let you to talk, walk away, etc. And the death of Shepard isn't a heroic death, isn't self sacrifice. It is just crap.

[humes spork]

RussianOrc wrote...

bioware just gave us a lesson of how to destroy a highly praised trillogy in 15 minutes......
congratulations bioware i hope you're happy.

Rick Berman & Brannon Braga: Wesley Crusher, BORG IN EVERYTHING.

George Lucas: Greedo shooting first, Jar-Jar.

Ronald D. Moore: She-Starbuck, and GODDIDIT

BioWare: CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Modifié par humes spork, 10 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Jigero]

His death wasn't the problem, I went into the game expecting him to die, But I was expecting hime to die in a way that didn't make every thing you did entirely pointless, made no sense, had no closure and just raised more questions and answered none.

[Ultra Prism]

I am heartbroken, Bioware killed me, me Ultra Shepard...made him in ME1 carry to ME2 to ME 3 now full Paragon, did so much, Then I sacrificed to control the reapers so everyone can live in peace including synthetics, EDI and Joker live in harmony, while Liara can mourn for her lover,Shepard, Come on Bioware seriously, I am very sad, this is first in video game, I mean you dev played with our minds, and leave us tormented. I DEMAND EPILOGUE DLC, want to know what happens after the war ..... Support a Epilogue DLC everyone

[NYG1991]

Shepard dying doesn't bother me. It all goes to hell as soon as he rides up the platform and meets the catalyst.

There's a YouTube video a guy made where he starts the ending with shep and Anderson sitting there talking and bleeding to death. It gets rid of the Normandy sequence and the relay detonation.

It ends up being a better ending IMO

[christrek1982]

my problem is that there are no happy ending and from what I have read it is not open enought to even head cannon a happy endin I dont mind bleak or dark but the chance of happy shep lives on mabe even with love intrest is non exsistant. hence kills any replay value or even the chance of a good and rewarding feeling at the end. as others have said its all about choice and the only choice we get are diffrent shades of bad.

also the fact that the sacafuce has to be made and there is no way around it then make the sacrafice a non choice and in turn non heroic. so in the end I din't even feel heroic. just depressed and dicapointed.

[kj0600]

I won't lie to you Shepard dying inevitably is what is pissing me off the most.
The god child, and well at least the crew stranded kind of made since in the Destruction ending. Kind of. I remember Bioware posting about where we would want to live in the Mass Effect world, I really wanted the opportunity to settle down after the war but instead we got this weird dream-like ending.

[Tunapiano]

 i hate the endings, i played me3 through once and found out he died and after some google searching it seems no matter what shepard dies so i will never play me3 again, the worst ending to a game ever.

I hate games and movies where the hero like shepard dies and this one left a bad taste in my mouth. i hate the ending and it ruins the entire game.

[Deltateam Elcor]

He is probably already dead, if the ending is anything it is the white light hallucination of a god figure, the "ascension" to the citadel was a literal interpretation of rising to heaven, im not sure what to make of the dead folk though, just seems unnecessary, to be honest that entire sequence with TIM and the shooting is confusing, but the opening of the arms is literal of gods hand, basically its just Jesus sacrifice all over again. 

His choice is just him accepting his death, the cycle continues

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 11 mars 2012 - 03:19 .

[translationninja]

Shep's death is only one aspect. I think the bigger problem is the "Deus ex machina" at the end. A plot device out of the blue and without any "justification".

Aside from the nihilism throughout the game, this was the biggest annoyance. I could have lived with chars dying, Shep dying and all that. But for what? For some unexplained "I iz space god, I haz make'd reapers"

Incredibly lazy...

[phimseto]

Archereon wrote...

After watching all of the endings on youtube, I'm starting to wonder if the reason everyone is so mad is that pretty much every ending results in Shepard's death, no matter your choices or readiness, above pretty much every other reason is being tossed around.


Imagine this scenario: If you're able to get enough assets for the war, Anderson ends up with you before the catalyst, and you're capable of choosing who makes the sacrifice for the Control and Synthesis endings. That would have the effect of opening up those two endings to players who don't want Shepard to die.

While Joker and the Normandy's crew being stranded somewhere is unpleasent, the ending leaves that open; it's entirely possible that they could eventually be rescued, particularly in the synthesis ending in which they may be immortal or at least longer lived than normal.

Thoughts?

No, no, and a thousand times no. It has nothing to do with happy or sad endings, and everything to do with endings which are consistent with the way all three games asked us to invest in the story - character, setting, and the ties that bind them together.

[JohnCena94]

Archereon wrote...

After watching all of the endings on youtube, I'm starting to wonder if the reason everyone is so mad is that pretty much every ending results in Shepard's death, no matter your choices or readiness, above pretty much every other reason is being tossed around.


Imagine this scenario: If you're able to get enough assets for the war, Anderson ends up with you before the catalyst, and you're capable of choosing who makes the sacrifice for the Control and Synthesis endings. That would have the effect of opening up those two endings to players who don't want Shepard to die.

While Joker and the Normandy's crew being stranded somewhere is unpleasent, the ending leaves that open; it's entirely possible that they could eventually be rescued, particularly in the synthesis ending in which they may be immortal or at least longer lived than normal.

Thoughts?

Its part of it, but really if he did die it would be ok, as long as they handled the ending better as a whole.  I have said this before, but DA1 is how you end a game, it can be very sad, or happy, and it delivers closure.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

webhead921 wrote...

Also, Shepard doesn't die in all of the endings.  Personally, I like the endings.  ME3 is my favorite in the series!

Nice to see I'm not the only one.  Probably we are the only two, but nice to know we aren't the only one. Heh.   Also... Shepard CAN live if you make the right decisions and ahve enough war assets.

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 11 mars 2012 - 03:31 .

[Adamantium93]

Partially, but its more that my actions in the previous games have no consequence. No matter what I get the same ending with three different colored lights.

Also, the end flies in the face of canon and everything Mass Effect has stood for.

DA1's end was perfect.

1. You sacrifice your life. You win
2. Your enemy seeks redemption, sacrificing his life. You win.
3. Your friend sacrifices his life. you win.
4. You make a shady deal that has far reaching consequences. You win, and live.
5. Lose in the final battle and turn off your system after the game over instead of reloading. You lose.

It let you find victory in whatever way you wished. In ME3, you have three choices

1. Destroy all synthetic life. Die, maybe live. You lose
2. Controll synthetic life. Die. You still lose.
3. Magic time! Die. You still lose.

No choice

Modifié par Adamantium93, 11 mars 2012 - 03:34 .