194 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan312]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

I liked the ending (minus there being ZERO epilogue, which more than anything pissed me off) but the point is, there was only really one way to end it, as there's zero follow through.

Plus there's pretty much no choice at all involved, and everyone's boned anyway, regardless of decision, and your decisions have no impact on how it ends, and most people wanted shep to live with their LI's in the end (not me, but most) and none of it made any sense, and it was completely contrived etc etc etc

No amount of reflection is going to change the ending from sloppy to well constructed.

[Almostfaceman]

Biotic Sage wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Why? This isn't an issue of comprhenesion or differing philosophies, this is a matter of broken promises and rushed delivery.

Considering I've been a fan since the first game and loved every second of it, including the ending, I don't really know if that statement you made is objectively true.

And no it's not about comprehension.  We comprehend what happened, but people get attached to the status quo, i.e. the relays and their Shepards.  It's tough for people to let go.  The initial shock hasn't worn off yet.

It's a bit more than letting go of the status quo, if you want check out the fan reviews and the Ending thread (that's like, over 600 pages long). If you haven't already, of course.

[Golferguy758]

Dragoni89 wrote...

Using the fact that it has not hit Europe or not long enough time with the game yet is not excuse to address the issue when the evidence is right in your face. Sample size large enough to know something has gone wrong.  ME3 has become a train wreck.

I wouldn't go that far. Just the way the endings were handled. Everything up to that point was as smooth as the Normandy.

[astrophyzcs]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Many of us have spent a lot of time mulling over the endings, and still find no solace in them. There are glaring issues prevalent in each scenario. The majority have been respectful with their opinions, providing clear and thoughtful reasons as to why they find them so unsatisfactory. You're always going to have the bullheaded minority making fools of themselves in any medium, especially so on the Internet. 

[retailavenger85]

Revan312 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

I liked the ending (minus there being ZERO epilogue, which more than anything pissed me off) but the point is, there was only really one way to end it, as there's zero follow through.

Plus there's pretty much no choice at all involved, and everyone's boned anyway, regardless of decision, and your decisions have no impact on how it ends, and most people wanted shep to live with their LI's in the end (not me, but most) and none of it made any sense, and it was completely contrived etc etc etc

No amount of reflection is going to change the ending from sloppy to well constructed.

Well put. 

[Biotic Sage]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Why? This isn't an issue of comprhenesion or differing philosophies, this is a matter of broken promises and rushed delivery.

Considering I've been a fan since the first game and loved every second of it, including the ending, I don't really know if that statement you made is objectively true.

And no it's not about comprehension.  We comprehend what happened, but people get attached to the status quo, i.e. the relays and their Shepards.  It's tough for people to let go.  The initial shock hasn't worn off yet.

It's a bit more than letting go of the status quo, if you want check out the fan reviews and the Ending thread (that's like, over 600 pages long). If you haven't already, of course.

I have checked out many.  I still think that this is what it comes down to for the majority of people.

I disagree with many people's views on the ending.  The only thing I do agree with is that the Normandy going FTL with people on board who were with Shepard at the end is very jarring considering the editing that was used.  So the editing is the only thing I take issue with.  The content was all perfect to me.  Perfect imagery and sounds to end the series.  Perfectly captured the tone of Mass Effect.  Also an appropriately climactic choice that completely shifts the entire galactic paradigm.  Closure but also hope for the future of the franchise, a new beginning.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[Militarized]

Biotic Sage wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Why? This isn't an issue of comprhenesion or differing philosophies, this is a matter of broken promises and rushed delivery.

Considering I've been a fan since the first game and loved every second of it, including the ending, I don't really know if that statement you made is objectively true.

And no it's not about comprehension.  We comprehend what happened, but people get attached to the status quo, i.e. the relays and their Shepards.  It's tough for people to let go.  The initial shock hasn't worn off yet.

There's nothing wrong with you liking the ending, in fact I think they should possibly let you have those endings. But I think they would fit better if you failed at destroying the reapers and this was a last ditch effort don't you? The majority of your choices, from a character driven/consequence driven game are thrown out the window and instead they shoehorn in a philosophy that didn't fit with ME1 or ME2 in my opinion to seem "deep". 

Maybe you're getting something out of the ending that I and a lot of other people are not... it really isn't just the fact that my Shepard died, or probably won't see my LI Jack again(though I shoulda had a sex scene before leaving for battle.. WTF). It's that none of it matters... it's almost entirely predetermined, which I woulda been fine with if the entire story was already predetermined ala FF7 and others. 

Did I explain some of the frustration properly? 

Modifié par Militarized, 10 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[Biotic Sage]

Militarized wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Why? This isn't an issue of comprhenesion or differing philosophies, this is a matter of broken promises and rushed delivery.

Considering I've been a fan since the first game and loved every second of it, including the ending, I don't really know if that statement you made is objectively true.

And no it's not about comprehension.  We comprehend what happened, but people get attached to the status quo, i.e. the relays and their Shepards.  It's tough for people to let go.  The initial shock hasn't worn off yet.

There's nothing wrong with you liking the ending, in fact I think they should possibly let you have those endings. But I think they would fit better if you failed at destroying the reapers and this was a last ditch effort don't you? The majority of your choices, from a character driven/consequence driven game are thrown out the window and instead they shoehorn in a philosophy that didn't fit with ME1 or ME2 in my opinion to seem "deep". 

Maybe you're getting something out of the ending that I and a lot of other people are not... it really isn't just the fact that my Shepard died, or probably won't see my LI Jack again(though I shoulda had a sex scene before leaving for battle.. WTF). It's that none of it matters... it's almost entirely predetermined, which I woulda been fine with if the entire story was already predetermined ala FF7 and others. 

Did I explain some of the frustration properly? 

That's the beauty and anguish of life though.  Everything is finite, all choices only matter to a certain extent because everyone dies eventually.  Everyone has to let go eventually, but how you touch others' lives always matters to them and you at the time you do it.  I didn't feel as though my choices were nullified.  I made the choices I thought were right at the time I made them, and would do them all again in the same context.  I found plenty of consequences stemming from past decisions throughout the game to be satisfied with the "consequence driven" aspect of Mass Effect, and I found more than enough character interaction and emotional investment to be satisfied with the "character driven" aspect.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[focusright]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Watch the European market LOVE the ending. Oh gawd... I need a better resolution. They better not ruin our chances.

this is not true, i understand french and german as well, their mood is similar to here, lot sof disappointed fans
sry only referring to the forums

Modifié par kiiiiii, 10 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[balmyrian]

astrophyzcs wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Many of us have spent a lot of time mulling over the endings, and still find no solace in them. There are glaring issues prevalent in each scenario. The majority have been respectful with their opinions, providing clear and thoughtful reasons as to why they find them so unsatisfactory. You're always going to have the bullheaded minority making fools of themselves in any medium, especially so on the Internet. 

The ending is only worse when you reflect upon it. Because you further realize how close it came to have been awesome, but how horrible execution, from pacing, to depth, length and utter lack of empathy towards the playerbase, made it just plain bad and painful.

Also, it is completely silly how the only function the "final choice" provides is for you to possibly change your mind regarding your philosophical and ontological motives through the game. Not bring them from subconscious to conscious. Not actually reflect upon them. Not even help you realize that you are standing right where you are as a logical conclusion of where you've been:

For as another poster very eloquently put, your standpoint regarding the cyclical nature of things (one half of the Reaper problem) is tested with the Genophage Cure choice.

And your standpoint regarding the inevitability of conflict between synthetics or organics (other half of the Reaper problem) is tested with the Quarian-Geth scenario.

I will add to that a third choice point, which is that whether you kept or destroyed the Collector Base tests your view on whether organics inherently have the resources to overcome on their own.

The Catalyst's speech could have been an opportunity to go back over all that. Put you back into the greater perspective that your choices have created. Make you realize that they do mean something, if not in the overall storyline's perspective, at least as ontological, ethical and moral views. That even if the actual endings show that they are non-factor in terms of story outcome, they carry their own power.

And of course, the end sequence should not have resulted in an extremely sketchy, vague, and skeletally symbolic tryptich of 1°) how the war ends, 2°) how galactic civilization is broken apart, 3°) what tomorrow's life is made of. Way too conceptually expressed, therefore unsatisfactory to an audience that's been so far used to feeling high and fulfilling emotions.

One can like the ending, possibly love it. One can respect the ending, but nobody can rightfully claim that it is good work.

Modifié par balmyrian, 10 mars 2012 - 02:41 .

[balmyrian]

kiiiiii wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Watch the European market LOVE the ending. Oh gawd... I need a better resolution. They better not ruin our chances.

this is not true, i understand french and german as well, their mood is similar to here, lot sof disappointed fans
sry only referring to the forums

No worries, we are all westerners in culture, so the demographics of love and hate will be equally spread as far as Europe and the US are concerned. I can't speak for asians or africans.

[Qutayba]

I'm willing to give Bioware some time to process this. They have lots of things to worry about release week. I'm sure this is a big matter to them, and although they warned that not everyone will get a happy ending, they are probably in shock that the community has reacted like this.

I feel for them, because they poured their heart and soul into the game, and it shows. And they know we poured our hearts and souls into it, too. I imagine there are some writers at Bioware who are positively crushed by this response (so they feel our pain, at least )

But a dev popping in here on their own and saying something that will probably get misconstrued by the community as either a denial or a promise without them deciding what to do as a team will only create more crap for everyone.

So let's be content they're listening, continue to give constructive feedback, and let them figure things out. Release week would be hell for them anyway, even if things went precisely as planned. They deserve a weekend off.

Modifié par Qutayba, 10 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[SnakeSNMF]

"many people haven't gotten there yet"


... Nearly everyone on this forum knows about the ending.

[RyMann88]

From what I've been reading across various forums, the feelings on the endings are pretty universal.

Personally I feel betrayed. Largely because Bioware stated dozens of times that player choice and control is the main driving force for the Mass Effect franchise. Yet the endings for Mass Effect 3 take that away. There are several endings that have been suggested that make perfect sense and would play out very well given how the game is set up.

I felt this was the best ending I've read so far: http://social.biowar...2&poll_id=29101

It makes sense, and given how the ending with the Illusive man was set up, it could work. So long as they set the prerequisites up correctly. Maybe encourage the use of the EMS system more. Essentially ask players to max it out.

All people are asking is for two things. Conclusion and Control. That's it.

[Golferguy758]

Keep those endings add other endings. People get to find the ending they want for their shepard

[balmyrian]

Qutayba wrote...

I'm willing to give Bioware some time to process this. They have lots of things to worry about release week. I'm sure this is a big matter to them, and although they warned that not everyone will get a happy ending, they are probably in shock that the community has reacted like this.

I feel for them, because they poured their heart and soul into the game, and it shows. And they know we poured our hearts and souls into it, too. I imagine there are some writers at Bioware who are positively crushed by this response (so they feel our pain, at least )

But a dev popping in here on their own and saying something that will probably get misconstrued by the community as either a denial or a promise without them deciding what to do as a team will only create more crap for everyone.

So let's be content they're listening, continue to give constructive feedback, and let them figure things out. Release week would be hell for them anyway, even if things went precisely as planned. They deserve a weekend off.

Exactly right. They unfortunately are bound by the business/corporate side of things, and probably have a ton other stuff to deal with right now, as well as clear procedure orders, that prevent a lot of them, actually feverishly hearing all the noise we make, to jump in as they so desire and justify and explain themselves.

It's not just the village storyteller screwing us all over. The same Big Business aspect that made the games possible in the first place also has a flipside to its coin. We gotta accept that, I'd wager that we all share the same frustration at non-response. This side of the fence and on the other just as well.

[Tartilus]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Militarized wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Why? This isn't an issue of comprhenesion or differing philosophies, this is a matter of broken promises and rushed delivery.

Considering I've been a fan since the first game and loved every second of it, including the ending, I don't really know if that statement you made is objectively true.

And no it's not about comprehension.  We comprehend what happened, but people get attached to the status quo, i.e. the relays and their Shepards.  It's tough for people to let go.  The initial shock hasn't worn off yet.

There's nothing wrong with you liking the ending, in fact I think they should possibly let you have those endings. But I think they would fit better if you failed at destroying the reapers and this was a last ditch effort don't you? The majority of your choices, from a character driven/consequence driven game are thrown out the window and instead they shoehorn in a philosophy that didn't fit with ME1 or ME2 in my opinion to seem "deep". 

Maybe you're getting something out of the ending that I and a lot of other people are not... it really isn't just the fact that my Shepard died, or probably won't see my LI Jack again(though I shoulda had a sex scene before leaving for battle.. WTF). It's that none of it matters... it's almost entirely predetermined, which I woulda been fine with if the entire story was already predetermined ala FF7 and others. 

Did I explain some of the frustration properly? 

That's the beauty and anguish of life though.  Everything is finite, all choices only matter to a certain extent because everyone dies eventually.  Everyone has to let go eventually, but how you touch others' lives always matters to them and you at the time you do it.  I didn't feel as though my choices were nullified.  I made the choices I thought were right at the time I made them, and would do them all again in the same context.  I found plenty of consequences stemming from past decisions throughout the game to be satisfied with the "consequence driven" aspect of Mass Effect, and I found more than enough character interaction and emotional investment to be satisfied with the "character driven" aspect.

Firstly, I'm not sure that making statements on the 'anguish of life' is appropriate in a game which, regardless of its status as art, is primarily intended to entertain, and most especially in a game for which 'choice' is a primary selling point.

Secondly, the criticisms of the ending come from multiple directions. There are individuals who feel that the endings don't make sense in that they are out of character and don't permit the player to react in the fashion they think is appropriate. There are individuals who see the larger plotholes in the ending (the fleeing of the Normandy, the teleportation of the crew, etc..) as being particularly egregious. There are individuals who are upset about the lack of closure - of any elaboration or explanation regarding the future of this galaxy you've come to love, the people who inhabit it, and the friends you've grown close to, such that you're left with a million more questions than you started with. Some people are upset as regards the (perhaps unintended) devastation that results from the endings, from the notion that even the 'happiest' ending results in the destruction of most worlds and the isolation and starvation of vast populations of all races, for various reasons. And, yes, some people just wanted an ending that would bring a smile to their face. 

I recognize that you feel no urge for the last, and perhaps the devastation is also a commentary on war which you can agree with, but that does not nullify that the promise of closure was proffered, and I would submit that there is objectively none to be found. Hence the rampant speculation and philosophical twisting we're have to do to make the ending even the slightest bit satisfactory.

[Biotic Sage]

balmyrian wrote...

astrophyzcs wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Many of us have spent a lot of time mulling over the endings, and still find no solace in them. There are glaring issues prevalent in each scenario. The majority have been respectful with their opinions, providing clear and thoughtful reasons as to why they find them so unsatisfactory. You're always going to have the bullheaded minority making fools of themselves in any medium, especially so on the Internet. 

And your standpoint regarding the inevitability of conflict between synthetics or organics (other half of the Reaper problem) is tested with the Quarian-Geth scenario.

Just because Geth and Quarians have been working together for a couple of weeks doesn't mean that synthetic/organic conflict isn't inevitable.  It doesnt' even begin to disprove the Catalyst's assertion.  Just sayin.

[nitefyre410]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Keep those endings add other endings. People get to find the ending they want for their shepard

 

this and more variance to the 3 endings we have  have...  More  dialogue and discussion with Kid.. .which I want to think is a damn cool concept but it so poorly executed.   A conversation with The Catalyst at the end of the epligoue of the endings that you get... or  a voice over. 

[littleork]

I have been reading her twitter and if you ready one of her convo, a player was pretty much saying that you were dooming everyone to their death and the ending sucked. Her answer was pretty much: *maybe you dont doom them.The end is pretty open ended and we told you to keep your saves*

When i read this, it makes me think that it will be post game dlc that we will get and possibly with shepard being alive and seeing what happened to the galaxy.Depending of the ending you choose or ur choices of course

[Dranume]

dream sequence!

[balmyrian]

Biotic Sage wrote...

balmyrian wrote...

astrophyzcs wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Also maybe people should take a bit more time to reflect and meditate on the ending instead of just being reactionary.

Many of us have spent a lot of time mulling over the endings, and still find no solace in them. There are glaring issues prevalent in each scenario. The majority have been respectful with their opinions, providing clear and thoughtful reasons as to why they find them so unsatisfactory. You're always going to have the bullheaded minority making fools of themselves in any medium, especially so on the Internet. 

And your standpoint regarding the inevitability of conflict between synthetics or organics (other half of the Reaper problem) is tested with the Quarian-Geth scenario.

Just because Geth and Quarians have been working together for a couple of weeks doesn't mean that synthetic/organic conflict isn't inevitable.  It doesnt' even begin to disprove the Catalyst's assertion.  Just sayin.

You'll have to work very hard to find any place where I say that organic/synthetic conflict isn't inevitable! What I am actually talking about is that the Quarian-Geth scenario, and the choice at the end of it, is ultimately all about whether you think organics and synthetics can coexist in peace. Just like the Joker/EDI side-story. They instruct your decision and set you up for a choice. A choice that is reflected at the end of the game in full with the Synthesis option, and in smaller part with the Control option.

It's precisely why if you go the Synthesis route, Joker and EDI emerge from the Normandy on the jungle planet.

[celestiatem]

Biotic Sage wrote...
Just because Geth and Quarians have been working together for a couple of weeks doesn't mean that synthetic/organic conflict isn't inevitable.  It doesnt' even begin to disprove the Catalyst's assertion.  Just sayin.

Not sure how that isn't proving the Catalyst is wrong, even if just a bit. I'd say that's a big slap in the face of "this can work". Stop trying to be right for the sake of being right. If you liked the ending, cool. Doesn't mean it's GOOD.

[balmyrian]

littleork wrote...

I have been reading her twitter and if you ready one of her convo, a player was pretty much saying that you were dooming everyone to their death and the ending sucked. Her answer was pretty much: *maybe you dont doom them.The end is pretty open ended and we told you to keep your saves*

When i read this, it makes me think that it will be post game dlc that we will get and possibly with shepard being alive and seeing what happened to the galaxy.Depending of the ending you choose or ur choices of course

With the intervention of space magic (which I don't really mind, biotics always were space magic to me), everything is possible. The real question I'm curious about is what ending will they be considering canon and therefore build the future DLCs/expansion on.