96 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

I like it because Shepard and her/his crew completed their mission. They wanted to ensure that Humanity and the other sentient species would have a future, and although it took a terrible price they were able to accomplish their goal.

I'm not sad about Shepard or the crew dying, everyone on the Normandy knew full well they probably wouldn't survive. I'd even say that the crew could die happy knowing they accomplished the impossible and won. That's good enough for me, I'm sorry it's not good enough for everyone else.

[MPSai]

I liked the act of the choice itself, there's a few choices in Mass Effect that tell you something about yourself. For me, it became more important to stay true to what Shepard in my continuity would do than to keep her alive. Literally the only choice I had was Synthesis, she's always been between Paragon and Renegade, she's always respected AIs, this was the only choice for her. Watching her run into the light, feeling proud of whose she's been all three games, it brought me to tears.

But... the actual content of the endings? Eeeyeaaah. The destruction of the mass relays, even the Normandy crashing on a planet (it's like it dies with Shepard) doesn't bother me. What bothers me are the plotholes. And the indication in the Synthesis ending that everyone has like.. organic synthetic hybrid DNA. Even the plants do. Everything does. And I get it's like.. oh Shepard's a part of everything and everyone now but... my suspension of disbelief can only be stretched so far.

[redbaron76]

I like the ending , because it was awesome. Shepard sacrificed himself so that the woman he loved Ashley and his crew will be able to live without reaper threat hanging over them. Civilization would be able to rebuild itself. They still have FTL drives that are EEzo powered and are not reaper tech so they still work. And it is quite possible that shepard survived and is able to get backto ashley and his crew. That is the way I read Mass Effect 3 ending and see lots of possibilities. That is what the ending did for me. It explained lots of things to me and showed me how my choices in all three games influenced ending of the game and prevent reaper war to occur for no more races. And just seeing ashley alive on the planet with my shepard's cre made my day, hope joker keeps ash safe or my shepard will hunt him down.

[Ultra Prism]

I have been raging and upset about ending. However, I began to perceive the point of endings, yes the game is mature and left you heartbroken in order to save galaxy...

All Mass Effect based technology had to be destroyed in order life to discover newer technology

but there is something still not explain, what happens with Haelstorm sun, Dark Energy thing...I was looking for some answer

and ending throw most people even me because I thought purpose of an Epic is to inspire and prosper ... just like lord of the rings... too bad endings resulted in back fire....people look for happiness when playing video game - which purpose is to entertain not getting emotionally struck

[Biotic Sage]

Ultra Prism wrote...

I have been raging and upset about ending. However, I began to perceive the point of endings, yes the game is mature and left you heartbroken in order to save galaxy...

All Mass Effect based technology had to be destroyed in order life to discover newer technology

but there is something still not explain, what happens with Haelstorm sun, Dark Energy thing...I was looking for some answer

and ending throw most people even me because I thought purpose of an Epic is to inspire and prosper ... just like lord of the rings... too bad endings resulted in back fire....people look for happiness when playing video game - which purpose is to entertain not getting emotionally struck

Mass Effect is a dark series, but not a hopelessly dark series.  The fact that galactic extinction was prevented and people have a chance to rebuild is hopeful.  The races survived the Cycle, something that thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of races in the past were not able to do.  They are freed from the Reapers and by extension the Reapers' system of control: the Mass Relays.  Isn't the fact that Shepard accomplished his mission pretty darn hopeful?  I mean it would have been lame if something as dark and serious as the Reapers/the Cycle could have been stopped with Shepard walking away from a giant explosion and then making out with his love interest.  That doesn't fit with the tone.  Sacrifice and perseverance despite great cost are the ideals that Mass Effect embodies.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[TonTheTerror]

I like movies and videogames that make you think. The ending of mass effect 3 did that. I spent 15 minutes trying to decide which ending i wanted before saying screw it, it is a videogame i can choose all of them. I am still deciding what i want my "true" ending to be.
I also hate it
A. Decision don't matter becuase,
B. Galatic civilization is destroyed
a.ftl argument wont work, it took the reapers the time between ME2 and ME3 to reach the next closest relay after arrival and they were way more advanced than us. Also the fuel would run out before you got anywhere else. It takes basically a full tank to get to the next closest system and back. Also rebuilding relays. The relays work because they are connected to other relays. Building one means nothing and like i stated getting to another location not likely
C. the whole normandy running away and my crew on earth magically back on normandy

The ending was probably the best i ever seen in a game but it still made me mad but i liked it.

Modifié par TonTheTerror, 10 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[GBGriffin]

Ultra Prism wrote...

I have been raging and upset about ending. However, I began to perceive the point of endings, yes the game is mature and left you heartbroken in order to save galaxy...

All Mass Effect based technology had to be destroyed in order life to discover newer technology

but there is something still not explain, what happens with Haelstorm sun, Dark Energy thing...I was looking for some answer

and ending throw most people even me because I thought purpose of an Epic is to inspire and prosper ... just like lord of the rings... too bad endings resulted in back fire....people look for happiness when playing video game - which purpose is to entertain not getting emotionally struck

I play video games, specifically RPGs, for the escapism factor. I don't need a game to tell me life isn't fair, you can't always win or save everybody, and that sacrifice for a great cause, while tragic, can be necessary.

I play games to escape from those realities, not reinforced with characters I've come to care about.

ME1: we beat Sovereign, but there were losses. I sacrificed lives to save the DA, and they questioned me about it later.
ME2: Most rewarding ending to a game I've ever played. Overcoming the suicide mission, even when I know I'll make it, is such a rush.
ME3: No hope, or ambiguous hope, at best, for you and your crew. You cave into the Catalyst's plan without any objection and don't even bother to put up a fight. Tone has shifted from overcoming the impossible to just ending with despair.

Again, I'm fine with multiple dark and depressing endings if that's what people want. They should be able to choose them if that's what they think should happen. But they couldn't put in one happy ending to send off the hero and the loyal crew? Not even one?

[TheLostGenius]

 It concluded Commander Shepard's story by revealing little, but enough about the Reaper's, while leaving a lot to the imagination. THeir are lots of similarities between ME1 and ME3. At the end of each Shepard takes on Soverign (or a Soverign class ship). At the end of ME1 it is made to seem that Shepard has been killed during Soverign's destruction, this always felt like a foreshadowing of his actual, and very real character death in the series.

Plus they need a better voice actor than Mr. Meer. LOL

It was also a very interesting theoretical ending...who exactly are the entities behind the Reapers? That is never explained, in fact the existence of the Reaper's is barely explained, all we discover is their purpose, darkness and then a small bit of hope.

Very good story telling.

If you want a happily ever after romance type thing, play a relationship simulator, not a game about a Galatic Mass Holocaust that you are trying to stop.

[GBGriffin]

TheLostGenius wrote...


It was also a very interesting theoretical ending...who exactly are the entities behind the Reapers? That is never explained, in fact the existence of the Reaper's is barely explained, all we discover is their purpose, darkness and then a small bit of hope.

Very good story telling.

I disagree, but I'll thank you for posting thoughts beyond a simple sentence.

I'm trying to make the link between these two thoughts. Can you expand on this a bit more? How do these details, and a lack thereof, make for good storytelling? Shouldn't good storytelling seek to provide these answers?

Modifié par GBGriffin, 10 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[QuirkyGroundhog]

GBGriffin wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I have been raging and upset about ending. However, I began to perceive the point of endings, yes the game is mature and left you heartbroken in order to save galaxy...

All Mass Effect based technology had to be destroyed in order life to discover newer technology

but there is something still not explain, what happens with Haelstorm sun, Dark Energy thing...I was looking for some answer

and ending throw most people even me because I thought purpose of an Epic is to inspire and prosper ... just like lord of the rings... too bad endings resulted in back fire....people look for happiness when playing video game - which purpose is to entertain not getting emotionally struck

I play video games, specifically RPGs, for the escapism factor. I don't need a game to tell me life isn't fair, you can't always win or save everybody, and that sacrifice for a great cause, while tragic, can be necessary.

I play games to escape from those realities, not reinforced with characters I've come to care about.

ME1: we beat Sovereign, but there were losses. I sacrificed lives to save the DA, and they questioned me about it later.
ME2: Most rewarding ending to a game I've ever played. Overcoming the suicide mission, even when I know I'll make it, is such a rush.
ME3: No hope, or ambiguous hope, at best, for you and your crew. You cave into the Catalyst's plan without any objection and don't even bother to put up a fight. Tone has shifted from overcoming the impossible to just ending with despair.

Again, I'm fine with multiple dark and depressing endings if that's what people want. They should be able to choose them if that's what they think should happen. But they couldn't put in one happy ending to send off the hero and the loyal crew? Not even one?

Games are a tricky medium because they're so new. On the one hand, they're a new story telling medium, and this is clearly the sort of story that Bioware wanted to tell. On the other hand, games are catering to an audience that interacts with the story in a very personal way. Due to that interactivity, they can potentially have a much stronger effect on people then any other medium.  It's a fine line between catering to a player and telling a strong, thematically succinct narrative loyal to the artist's vision.

Maybe Bioware hasn't found that perfect balance, but they're pioneers, and the medium is still in its infancy. It's hardly fair to blame them. 

[Biotic Sage]

GBGriffin wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I have been raging and upset about ending. However, I began to perceive the point of endings, yes the game is mature and left you heartbroken in order to save galaxy...

All Mass Effect based technology had to be destroyed in order life to discover newer technology

but there is something still not explain, what happens with Haelstorm sun, Dark Energy thing...I was looking for some answer

and ending throw most people even me because I thought purpose of an Epic is to inspire and prosper ... just like lord of the rings... too bad endings resulted in back fire....people look for happiness when playing video game - which purpose is to entertain not getting emotionally struck

I play video games, specifically RPGs, for the escapism factor. I don't need a game to tell me life isn't fair, you can't always win or save everybody, and that sacrifice for a great cause, while tragic, can be necessary.

I play games to escape from those realities, not reinforced with characters I've come to care about.

ME1: we beat Sovereign, but there were losses. I sacrificed lives to save the DA, and they questioned me about it later.
ME2: Most rewarding ending to a game I've ever played. Overcoming the suicide mission, even when I know I'll make it, is such a rush.
ME3: No hope, or ambiguous hope, at best, for you and your crew. You cave into the Catalyst's plan without any objection and don't even bother to put up a fight. Tone has shifted from overcoming the impossible to just ending with despair.

Again, I'm fine with multiple dark and depressing endings if that's what people want. They should be able to choose them if that's what they think should happen. But they couldn't put in one happy ending to send off the hero and the loyal crew? Not even one?

Mass Effect isn't the right game for you if you are only playing for wish fulfillment.  People use escapism to mean wish fulfillment, but that isnt' correctly using the term.  It very much serves as escapism when a world is believable and immerses you, regardless of how depressing or dark that world is. 

Anyway, lumping all video games into the category of wish fulfillment is a disservice to the medium.  Just think if we kept film exactly the way it was in the infancy of its development, we wouldn't have all of the great films we have today.  So you can still play the video games that make you feel completely empowered and invincible, fulfilling your every wish and fantasy.  But you made a mistake thinking the Mass Effect series was that.  Maybe parts of it were, but it was always a dark sci fi story destined to end with great sacrifice and a climactic, paradigm altering decision.  But what people are missing is that it's also very hopeful as well!  I mean, the Reapers were stopped.  The Cycle that had dictated the way things were for millions of years was broken.  This is huge.  Societies can rebuild.  People can live their lives instead of being harvested.  That is hopeful to me.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 06:57 .

[GBGriffin]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Mass Effect isn't the right game for you if you are only playing for wish fulfillment.  People use escapism to mean wish fulfillment, but that isnt' correctly using the term.  It very much serves as escapism when a world is believable and immerses you, regardless of how depressing or dark that world is. 

Anyway, lumping all video games into the category of wish fulfillment is a disservice to the medium.  Just think if we kept film exactly the way it was in the infancy of its development, we wouldn't have all of the great films we have today.  So you can still play the video games that make you feel completely empowered and invincible, fulfilling your every wish and fantasy.  But you made a mistake thinking the Mass Effect series was that.  Maybe parts of it were, but it was always a dark sci fi story destined to end with great sacrifice and a climactic, paradigm altering decision.

Sorry, that's how I've always understood the term: to get away from reality, more specifically a harsh one. Semantic error, I guess.

And, while I respect your opinion, and I do agree that sacrifice should be needed, isn't the destruction of the relays and Reaper tech, synthetic life as a whole, enough? What about the lives already lost in the battle for Earth and the events leading up to it? Fate of the crew aside, I'd say that's a hell of an outcome for the galaxy as a whole to recover from. As for sacrificing the crew, I don't buy it. It feels too thrown in there, too unnecessary to be anything more than a sacrificial lamb.

Honestly, I don't think I'd have made such a mistake in hoping for a happy ending if the prior two games hadn't raised my hopes up that we might actually win this thing and come out on top, or that my choices and hard work would result in a better fate for the characters I've been groomed to care about.

But, yeah, I'll admit it. If this is how they end it, definitively, then I made a mistake to trust them and buy into it.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 10 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[Craven1138]

picodeath123 wrote...

I'm all good for my guy dying to save the universe and all that, but I would've liked to maybe have it foreshadowed bit and have more answers than questions done in a way that makes sense.

Sorry pal, but you didn't save it. You just blew up most important technological devices in galaxy, therefore pushing everyone into Dark Age (given that you didn't wipe out everyone to create some imaginary synthetic-biological absurd lifeforms). You didn't bring actual peace, just misery and slow death for many separated worlds. You didn't prevent any of this happening again.

So unless you're into bad endings, I don't get what do you like about this ending.

[TheLostGenius]

GBGriffin wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...


It was also a very interesting theoretical ending...who exactly are the entities behind the Reapers? That is never explained, in fact the existence of the Reaper's is barely explained, all we discover is their purpose, darkness and then a small bit of hope.

Very good story telling.

I disagree, but I'll thank you for posting thoughts beyond a simple sentence.

I'm trying to make the link between these two thoughts. Can you expand on this a bit more? How do these details, and a lack thereof, make for good storytelling? Shouldn't good storytelling seek to provide these answers?

THe answers to all fo the characters stories that we were introduced to were told. Total expostion is VERY SLOPPY story telling, and implies your audience (listeners, readers, players) have no imagination. It's good story telling because when confronted with the "impossible unexpected" the hero prevails and sacrifices himself to the mission that he dedicated himself too since the start of Mass Effect 1.

We don't need endless sequels until the game becomes irrelevant. By ending it this way SHepard's story becomes important, and sets a new high water mark for storytelling in game, which is interactive user driven narrative. All I can say is that the end the way it was shown was high concept science fiction and a lot of mystery. If a lushly explained overly expository ending was given, and everything was happy happy happy, I'd be extremely disappointed that these horrific machines from out of the galaxy were no menace at all. They took to the limits the possibilities of what humanity and what technology could become, and story is stronger for not caving to the "easy out". Ending.

I'm a ME fanboy. I did not have a fangasm at the end, however I did love the ending. Right after watching everything happen (i never read spoilers). I became really exhausted and fell asleep, and in my dream i was crying on the Normandy...

No video game has ever affected me like that before. I have a feeling Mass Effect is just the tip of the ice berg as far as science fiction story telling is concerned...more can be done with the series that can tell an amazing story without being as grand scale, though Shepard will probably always be a hero of lore or importance alluded too. His sacrifice was necessary.

[GBGriffin]

TheLostGenius wrote...


THe answers to all fo the characters stories that we were introduced to were told. Total expostion is VERY SLOPPY story telling, and implies your audience (listeners, readers, players) have no imagination. It's good story telling because when confronted with the "impossible unexpected" the hero prevails and sacrifices himself to the mission that he dedicated himself too since the start of Mass Effect 1.

We don't need endless sequels until the game becomes irrelevant. By ending it this way SHepard's story becomes important, and sets a new high water mark for storytelling in game, which is interactive user driven narrative. All I can say is that the end the way it was shown was high concept science fiction and a lot of mystery. If a lushly explained overly expository ending was given, and everything was happy happy happy, I'd be extremely disappointed that these horrific machines from out of the galaxy were no menace at all. They took to the limits the possibilities of what humanity and what technology could become, and story is stronger for not caving to the "easy out". Ending.

I'm a ME fanboy. I did not have a fangasm at the end, however I did love the ending. Right after watching everything happen (i never read spoilers). I became really exhausted and fell asleep, and in my dream i was crying on the Normandy...

No video game has ever affected me like that before. I have a feeling Mass Effect is just the tip of the ice berg as far as science fiction story telling is concerned...more can be done with the series that can tell an amazing story without being as grand scale, though Shepard will probably always be a hero of lore or importance alluded too. His sacrifice was necessary.

To me, the ambiguity of their fates, even if their backgrounds are presented, doesn't seem like good storytelling, nor does the absence of how thery even got in that situation to begin with. There's leaving details to the imagination, and then there's just leaving details out and causing confusion.

I recognize that sacrifice is necessary and, honestly, I expected my Shep to sacrifice herself. I just wasn't prepared for the characters I'd spent the now better part of 3 games caring about to be treated to such an end. Honestly, as much as my perfect ending would be a reunion, I'd settle for a more certain (hopefulyl positive) ending for them.

I don't know. I just wish they'd included one happy ending that was really hard to work for. Just one versus a dozen or more depressing or sad ones would have been nice. I don't think it would have offended the people who want to end Shep and the crew entirely.

[Tartilus]

TheLostGenius wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...


It was also a very interesting theoretical ending...who exactly are the entities behind the Reapers? That is never explained, in fact the existence of the Reaper's is barely explained, all we discover is their purpose, darkness and then a small bit of hope.

Very good story telling.

I disagree, but I'll thank you for posting thoughts beyond a simple sentence.

I'm trying to make the link between these two thoughts. Can you expand on this a bit more? How do these details, and a lack thereof, make for good storytelling? Shouldn't good storytelling seek to provide these answers?

THe answers to all fo the characters stories that we were introduced to were told. Total expostion is VERY SLOPPY story telling, and implies your audience (listeners, readers, players) have no imagination. It's good story telling because when confronted with the "impossible unexpected" the hero prevails and sacrifices himself to the mission that he dedicated himself too since the start of Mass Effect 1.

We don't need endless sequels until the game becomes irrelevant. By ending it this way SHepard's story becomes important, and sets a new high water mark for storytelling in game, which is interactive user driven narrative. All I can say is that the end the way it was shown was high concept science fiction and a lot of mystery. If a lushly explained overly expository ending was given, and everything was happy happy happy, I'd be extremely disappointed that these horrific machines from out of the galaxy were no menace at all. They took to the limits the possibilities of what humanity and what technology could become, and story is stronger for not caving to the "easy out". Ending.

I'm a ME fanboy. I did not have a fangasm at the end, however I did love the ending. Right after watching everything happen (i never read spoilers). I became really exhausted and fell asleep, and in my dream i was crying on the Normandy...

No video game has ever affected me like that before. I have a feeling Mass Effect is just the tip of the ice berg as far as science fiction story telling is concerned...more can be done with the series that can tell an amazing story without being as grand scale, though Shepard will probably always be a hero of lore or importance alluded too. His sacrifice was necessary.

I would suggest that there was a point between 'total' exposition and what they provided, which is essentially none, that would have aided the coherancy of the story and the quality of the ending. Let's try to avoid strawmen, please.

[QuirkyGroundhog]

Craven1138 wrote...

picodeath123 wrote...

I'm all good for my guy dying to save the universe and all that, but I would've liked to maybe have it foreshadowed bit and have more answers than questions done in a way that makes sense.

Sorry pal, but you didn't save it. You just blew up most important technological devices in galaxy, therefore pushing everyone into Dark Age (given that you didn't wipe out everyone to create some imaginary synthetic-biological absurd lifeforms). You didn't bring actual peace, just misery and slow death for many separated worlds. You didn't prevent any of this happening again.

So unless you're into bad endings, I don't get what do you like about this ending.

You're thinking short term. You stopped an endless cycle of destruction and gave organic life self determination whereas before their entire course was dictated by powers beyond their comprehension. Mass Relays, the Citadel, they were tools to control you, you broke free.

[Tartilus]

QuirkyGroundhog wrote...

Craven1138 wrote...

picodeath123 wrote...

I'm all good for my guy dying to save the universe and all that, but I would've liked to maybe have it foreshadowed bit and have more answers than questions done in a way that makes sense.

Sorry pal, but you didn't save it. You just blew up most important technological devices in galaxy, therefore pushing everyone into Dark Age (given that you didn't wipe out everyone to create some imaginary synthetic-biological absurd lifeforms). You didn't bring actual peace, just misery and slow death for many separated worlds. You didn't prevent any of this happening again.

So unless you're into bad endings, I don't get what do you like about this ending.

You're thinking short term. You stopped an endless cycle of destruction and gave organic life self determination whereas before their entire course was dictated by powers beyond their comprehension. Mass Relays, the Citadel, they were tools to control you, you broke free.

Which is where I think the writing and storytelling aspects come in. This sort of extremely-long-term positive ending (or, more specifically, an ending in which this long-term positivity is the primary method of closure) isn't necessarily bad, it's just entirely inappropriate to the depth and length of the story. It's The Dark Tower ending all over again - "Oh, things suck pretty hardcore right now, but in the future things might suck moderately less!" - and Mr. King at least had the good manners to warn us that it was lackluster.

The story has hope, I admit, it's just a level of hope which is disproportionate to the level in which they've had us invest in this universe and its characters. Maybe if they'd focused on Humanity as a sort of meta-protaganist, it would go down smoother, but this was a character driven story, and that my friends' moderately inbred great, great, great grandkids might not have it so bad does not, to me, qualify as a comfort sufficient to excuse the lack of an epilogue.

[Jarcander]

It was a very mature ending. Much more than I expected. The dept demonstrated in ME3 you can find only in one genre; sci-fi, and a very few actually succeed in creating and epic like this. I was stunned and awed by this game.

And I will even forgive the idiotic objective tags and confusing journal for reasons stated above.

PS. Kelly saved my fish. Damn. This was my only true request for ME3. Thanks for that and more, Bioware.

[demoneo]

I'm glad I discover this thread.

To me, the choices made in the game matter. To quote Gladiator: "What you do in life echoes in eternity" Everyone dies, every story will come to an end. All it matters is how you live your life. How your story is told.

Personally, I think the writers save the crew on Normandy to show us a glimmer of hope. And it's isn't too hard to imagine how they are saved.

But the final farewell to shepard's LI was kind of heart wrenching for me. And when my shepard was walking towards the light, I was really hoping the rest of the crew (especially shepard's LI) survive and carry on living to their fullest.

[Tannaraz]

Tartilus wrote...

The story has hope, I admit, it's just a level of hope which is disproportionate to the level in which they've had us invest in this universe and its characters. Maybe if they'd focused on Humanity as a sort of meta-protaganist, it would go down smoother, but this was a character driven story, and that my friends' moderately inbred great, great, great grandkids might not have it so bad does not, to me, qualify as a comfort sufficient to excuse the lack of an epilogue.

I think that's one of the major aspects that bothers me about the end. Its not that I'm not happy I saved life as we know it. I mean, playing a paragon, that's kind of the lot in life. But on the character level it just felt like.... well.... like a Kobayashi Maru. Admittedly, I'm a Kirk-ist.

[blindchaos]

I personally, don't care much for the endings. They are maybe thematically appropriate. I did enjoy destruction of the Mass Relays as a means for the galaxy to break free of the Reaper Cycle and forge a new path.  However, the ending, on just a pure emotion level, is less effective then any of the number of death scenes and bittersweet moments that come before it. In a game so defined by a tone of grim determination and painful uncertainty, the ending does not feel as connected as I would like.That and the number of plotholes prevent it from being what I would call a great or even very good ending. In the end I just sort of shrugged and imported my next Shepard.

However, the ending did not sour me on Bioware or Mass Effect as a whole.  I would be interested in seeing where Bioware took the Mass Effect IP in the future, and even if the setting is forever changed, I could see myself playing another Mass Effect game with or without Shepard. My stance is more, that the ending is less then the sum of it's pieces, but its not the first conclusion to leave me less then amazed.

I just don't think it was so abominably bad, to warrant the outrage I see on some of these boards. To say that it ruins the entirety of the series, seems I think a little shallow, or at least a bit too emotional for my tastes. Maybe I just think games like any other form of story based entertainment, should be written the way the author thinks makes sense, and not to appease a fairly diverse and at times contradictory fanbase.

Modifié par blindchaos, 11 mars 2012 - 12:51 .