66 réponses à ce sujet

[Twilight Phoenix]

Curious to know how many seem to think they fall naturally towards being the good-natured, caring leader? My third playthrough was supposed to be a closed-off, human hating Dalish Elf. However, I just find it so hard to try and be a blatant ass and put down my team members. This normally results in me starting over and, again, playing a more agreeable character; anyone else like this?

[Sloth Of Doom]

I think in a large way it has to do with the way the game is written. I have my **** dwarf playthrough and sometimes it just doesn't FEEL right, but I had no problem being a dick in ME or KOTOR.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 26 novembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[Few87]

yes! I know exactly what you mean. Ive tried a few times to make an evil character, or not even evil, just a little nasty but i cant do it! I always end up not being able to bring myself to take any action that seems nasty. Bioware did a really good job making me feel guilty for even considering trying to be nasty.

[xCirdanx]

There are several threads about this subject, and no you are not alone with this. However letting down your teammembers...that´s because there is no "bad" person in your team. Not one. Unlike, lets say Korgan or Edwin in BG2. I wouldn´t even consider Morrigan as totaly self centred and a bad person. Also playing the bad guy is less productive than playing good. My 2nd char was a real bad person, didn´t change realy a lot. Playing BG2 as a bad person changed more than it does in DA...that was unexpected and unsatisfying.

[soteria]

As for your teammates, I think it's pretty natural to not want to be nasty to them. From what I've seen, even people I wouldn't call "good" are good to their friends. I've known people who could be a total douche to someone they didn't know, but to anyone in their circle of friends they would do almost anything for.

[RPGmom28]

Playing evil really makes me feel like a heel. I can never finish a game that way. I always end up deleting the character. It's strange to feel bad about it, but even though it's an imaginary world with imaginary people, I just can't be cruel to them. Most of the time I take "good" characters around with me, because it just feels more natural to me. After all, you wouldn't hang out with people you didn't like unless you were forced to do so.

[Kevin Lynch]

I naturally lean towards a good character (and in old D&D speak: chaotic good). To play something opposite to this, I rely on roleplaying anything but what comes natural. It's relatively easy to do once you get into the habit of avoiding the choice you'd normally make and picking any of what remains. Because I alternate most every aspect of my characters through different replays of a game, I've played just as many "evil" character as "good" in those games that allow both angles.



Really, though, I've always found the good path most satisfying, even if the evil path is sometimes more fun.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Playing evil is supposed to make you feel like a heel. What works better is if you find a way for the character to view himself positively, even if most people would think he was evil.

I've played through the Mage origin with two very different Mages, and each does things the other would find distasteful, but it works because the character I'm playing at the time can justify the behaviour.

[lordmangafee]

LOL OP, I am the exact same way, and I have a friend that says the same thing too. No matter how hard I try, I cannot bring myself to being evil.

[TileToad]

I too tried to RP a Dalish Elf with an innate hatred towards humans. However, somewhere along the way, I noticed I was mellowing down and even became more agreeable to most of these horrible humans. Perhaps it was because most NPCs encountered seemed ignorant (of the Dalish) rather than mean spirited.

As for allignment, I would classify myself as a True Neutral.

Modifié par TileToad, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:36 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

My human mage with a hatred of the chantry is doing just fine - perhaps because he can hate them without being antagonistic all the time.

[Erucolindo]

I've tried before (in KOTOR) and I can not be bad to save my life. I fell literal guilt as if I had done what I made my character do. I want my rogue to be at least chaotic good, a smart ass, none of that yes sir or no sir crap, but at the same time I don't want to be stabbing kitten and babies. Evil though, can't do. Beyond the guilt i feel, sometimes it just seems those responses are stupid and extremely counter productive! Evil usually cost you xp. I don't think you gain anything by being evil except the "fun" of being a bastard. Same with stealthing past an enemy vs fighting it. You can, but you lose xp by not killing them.

[illuminate07]

I'm the opposite, I'm naturally evil, but during my first play through I usually play as good just so I don't "screw up the game" and miss certain things

[rmp]

I can't be evil either. Yesterday I thought I should start using Leliana's pick pocket skill I hadn't used until then. I only targeted shady characters but I didn't know failed attempts would lead to run ins with guards... like 30 of them in an encounter while moving between areas. I killed them all, then decided to reload and not get caught stealing to avoid killing them. And I just can't be mean or evil in conversations. Totally goes against the grain.

Modifié par rmp, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:43 .

[GlassRain]

mostly its because of the delivery in the game. being "cruel" usually is basically punching babies and kicking old folks rather than subtle.



Minor spoiler:



Take for instance the merchant in lothering. The delivery line for shooing the priest and concerned citizens is pretty "spit in your face". Just rather inhumane in some of the dialogue selections. I attempted to reason with the merchant but seeing no way to gain from it since my coercion wasn't high enough I resigned to help him and still felt like an utter douche even though I'd tried.



/spoiler



My default playstyle leans toward the good side though I rarely turn down reward and often try to gain from a situation. Its still very hard for me to be the "evil" guy simply because doing so seems very alien and forced.

[marshalleck]

Honestly, it's because while the writing is greatly improved in DAO, game writers are still struggling with avoiding the Chaotic Stupid complex, where the "bad" choices come down to random, pointless thuggery.

see both:
http://tvtropes.org/...n/ChaoticStupid
http://tvtropes.org/...Main/StupidEvil

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:47 .

[Teoes]

Ha! I'd completely forgotten about pickpocketing. That was one of the reasons I decided to include Leliana in my party in the beginning.. Go figure - I put the time in to steal off almost all the poor unfortunate refugees in Lothering, but after that completely forgot. Now I'm so busy being a goody two-shoes (to hoover up as much xp as possible, you understand) that having remembered I can steal off folks, I really don't want to.



Well, maybe off some of the snottier nobles..

[Default137]

Its less that people are inherently good, and more along the lines that every RPG ever made has portrayed evil as either being so stupid you wonder how they are able to walk and breathe at the same time, and their version of Evil is always "thug" Evil, which is almost impossible for the average person to want to play.

I bet you good money that if writers actually put in a more subtle Evil, many more people would chose the Evil route. Right now, the only reason to go through with the Evil route is if you want to roleplay an idiot, or if you want to purposelessly miss out on a good chunk of storyline because your constantly antagonizing people.

No offense to the writers, but if you want to lets say, conquer the world, enslave the populations, force them to bow down before you, and commit mass genocide, you are not going to think yelling at people, or kicking their small pets is a good start, most "evil" people in real life have always tried their best to get on peoples good sides, always tried to be as saintly as possible, while doing their best to power grab as much as they possibly could behind peoples backs, so the moment when they came out of the closet so to speak, they already have a plethora of allies willing to die for them, absurd amounts of power, and usually assassins in the people who might try to stops thems houses.

What I'd like to see is a game where choosing the more evil choices in the storyline would actually give you more power in terms of character strength, and have choices vary from white to gray, rather then pure saintly to evil thug.

Seriously, when most options come down to "Kill the Beggar!" or "Give him 20 Sovereigns so he can start his new life!" what do you think people are going to choose, and how can you expect people to choose the thug option without feeling like a ******. And then it gets rubbed in because that beggar would have come back later and helped us a ton by opening a door or giving us the sword of ten thousand magical explosions so we can use it to kill the evil enemy for good with the power of saintlyness.

/offtopic a bit.

Modifié par Default137, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Drake Sigar]

Whenever I've played evil in Bioware games I usually ended up starting again. Though as... Default137 said, some of the evil choices are outright idiotic. Why is borderline psychopathic the only evil around? Well anyway, turned out I was able to roleplay a gruff bitter power hungry Dwarf Noble just fine. Dwarvish society delivered such a unique viewpoint that I managed to make choices that some humans would consider evil, and feel it wasn't evil from the dwarf's view.

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:27 .

[DrudgeRavener5]

I'm usually a fairly borderline character but I found myself always leaning toward good in this game even when I was trying to be evil which is kinda funny since in BG2 I always tried to start out as the good guy and always I'd end up being pure evil simply because of the way everyone treated you because of what you are.

[Vimick]

I play a good character but I have evil tendencies. I try to agree and work things out with people and having to make a decision with 2 completely different outcomes is hard to do but i have max pickpocket skill and i do the more shady, illegal quests.

Modifié par Vimick, 27 novembre 2009 - 12:57 .

[sleepy__head]

I'm the same, I had a hard time being deliberately mean even to fictional characters.  Also, if you don't help people you get less quests and less xp and loot, which is another factor.

[Korva]

I can't play evil. I don't want to play evil. I even have a hard time playing abrasive or ruthless characters unless an NPC I'm dealing with really pisses me off in a bad way. Normally, I only play a game once, and it's almost always with a rather "paladin"-like person: do the right thing, help people or help them help themselves, balancing justice and mercy, and so on. It feels satisfying, just as being an arse feels dirty.

Part of it is, as has been mentioned, that the "evil" path in games usually boils down to a Sociopathic Stupid alignment that is impossible to take seriously and breaks immersion in three seconds flat. It's a bit like watching the illiterate twitchbrats in WoW jumping up and down on top of you with their mammoth mounts, yelling "lol" and random insults in a vapid attempt to be "k3wl". Pathetic, and aggravating.

But that's not the only reason. Maybe I'm just not a good enough roleplayer, since there are many types of characters I'm simply not interested in, and playing evil is one of them. Even if there was a "smart" type of evil. Screwing people over, even if it's just a bunch of pixels, just doesn't feel right.

Just to see what happens in the evil endgame in KotOR and Jade Empire, I reloaded some saves near the end after finising the "proper" way as a good character, and picked the evil path. There wasn't even random thuggery involved, "just" ruthless betrayal and power-grabbing. And boy did it make me feel crappy. Jade Empire in particular. I felt so horrible after seeing the evil ending that I immediatetely had to reload again and replay the good ending, as an apology to the Water Dragon and my companions.

I think it says something about the quality of the writing and acting when players feel really guilty and crappy for betraying their allies.

In this game, I do plan on repeated playthroughs, and I do want my elf and dwarf to be less goody-goody than the human noble. Not sure yet if I can pull it off, but I'll try ...

Modifié par Korva, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Deviija]

Nah, I come from a play of roleplaying and view this as fictional story-weaving. I don't identify myself as my avatar and thus there is a clear disconnect where I do not feel obligated whatsoever to choose one choice over another. I choose what the character would decide, for good or bad.

As for personal enjoyment, I tend to play more renegade/brutal/ruthless characters my first time through.

One issue with 'evil'/morally bankrupt characters is that it is difficult to play them as such when the game isn't quite geared to allow such choices. DA does a great job of giving moral dilemmas and choice, but it is still within the framework of a 'dark heroic story.' Meaning, no matter how Renegade you are in ME, or how cutthroat you are in DA, you're still a 'good guy' in the end.

Modifié par Deviija, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:28 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'm playing a rather ruthless mage for my second run at the moment, and while I'm having no trouble making evil choices (I've been sacrificing people to demons left, right and centre) I've found that I just can't be mean to my companions. No matter how dastardly my mage is when he's out in the world, in camp he pats the dog on the head and hands out presents to everyone. He even got Alistair to be his friend again after ... that fight about a spoilery incident I won't mention in this forum.



Partly, this is because it's not very practical to insult and belittle people you need to fight a Blight with. Partly it's because I don't think even an evil PC has to be completely heartless - if Morrigan, Shale and Zevran can learn to love him, I see no reason he shouldn't care for them in return. And partly it's because I just like all my companions too much .