43 réponses à ce sujet

[Zenjamin]

Hello.

I am verry new to the game.
Anyways, as I understand it, you can not re-spec. And I am one of those people who want the est build they can get. No wasted spells.


So. Could I get some help here?
I am looking to be a fairly tatical fighter. Perhaps a shape shifter. Perhapsa lood mage.

All I know for sure. is that I hate the templars and the chantry. I will ply my character as a good and careful person, nut beyond that, I have little to no idea.

I am currently at level five, and I have not leveled up even once because I am afraid of picking a spell that I really wouldnt end up using later.



There is no stickied guides on best spells/talents/builds for different types of mages, so excuse me if this topic is a little broad.


Anyways, so far I have mind-blast, Arcane bolt, and walking bomb.





So.... help me out? where should I be focusing my points?

Modifié par Zenjamin, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:30 .

[Suron]

so your PC is a mage? well what sounds fun to you? direct damage? crowd control? buffing? healing?



kinda gotta start with that..as there's a ton of combo's that are powerful



now most on the board will say go Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage as it's the end-all be-all mage build..but personally I never used it.



anyway what kind of caster sounds fun to you? we all have varying ideas on what we enjoy..and it may be totally opposite of what's "the best"

[Suron]

oh and there's no "chantry" mages..they're of the circle..which is controlled by the chantry yes but I wouldn't call them "chantry mages" by any stretch...



however the chantry outlaws blood-magic..so if you want a character that the chantry hates, wouldn't accept into their own, and in general would hunt down to kill (if it wasn't for the fact you're a grey warden so above such a "law") then blood mage is your spec..

[zodas23]

Your question is difficult to answer.

The types of spells you use will vary based on your play style.

I don't think you can really gimp your mage by picking the wrong spells...you can always buy tomes to get more spells when you have more money.

The only way I have been able to answer the same question for myself is by playing the game and trying out all of the different types of spells.  You can always save your game before you level up and then reload after trying out your new spell(s).

Zod

*edited because someone gave pretty much the same answer as me while I was typing*

Modifié par zodas23, 26 novembre 2009 - 10:38 .

[Bluesmith]

Winter's Grasp, Cone-of-Cold, Crushing Prison, Force Field are the key spells. After that, focus on abusing CC (Sleep, glyph combos, whatever) and AOE (Fireball, the walking bomb spells, whatever). Mages are totally unstoppable if played correctly, and still insanely good even if not.

Feel free to abuse CC (none of which breaks on damage except sleep in this game) and AOE combos; also taunt with your tank, Force Field him, and AOE spam, etc.

[Zenjamin]

Suron wrote...

so your PC is a mage? well what sounds fun to you? direct damage? crowd control? buffing? healing?

kinda gotta start with that..as there's a ton of combo's that are powerful

images/spacer.gifimages/spacer.gif

Crowd Control is my cup of tea.
Nothing better then locking down an endire room and taking everytihng out with shotgun rockets in your singularity....

Er.
Wrong game.



But ya. Crowd Control is for me.
I will change the title to reflect this.


EDIT:
This post was typed and posted an instant before DragoonKain3  made his post.....

Modifié par Zenjamin, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:35 .

[DragoonKain3]

Assuming you're going to have Wynne at the very least (Morrigan works too as your support, but it will be a while before she gets real effective at healing), and assuming you put everything to Magic....

Origin: Arcane Bolt
1) Winter's Grasp + Frost Weapons
2) Cone of Cold
3) Blizzard
4) Mind Blast
5) Force Field
6) Telekinteic Weapons
Ostagar Talent) Crushing Prison
7) Life Drain
8) Death Magic
9) Curse of Mortality
10) Death Cloud
11) Vulnerability Hex
12) Affliction Hex
13) Misdirection Hex
14) Death Hex

(By this time, you should've unlocked bloodmage if you went Circle Tower-->Redcliffe, reloaded before you unlock bloodmage and then pick talent tome instead, and you should have enough gold to buy all three arcane books)

Redcliffe bonus talent) Blood Magic
Desire tome) Blood Sacrifice
Arcane tome 1) Blood Wound
Arcane tome 2) Mana Drain
Arcane tome 3) Mana Cleanse
15) Spell Might
16) Blood Control
17) Spell Clash
18) Spell Wisp
19) Arcane Shield
20) Staff Mastery
21) Arcane Mastery
22) Walking Bomb
23) Death Syphon
24) Virulent Walking Bomb

Note that most players will be lvl 22 by end game, 23 with a few thousand XP to go if they try to maximize XP. Just donate some stuff in camp to get 24, but this build doesn't really need the Walking Bomb anyway, since it effectively ends at lvl 21.

Reason for this build is to maximize your spirit spells, since very few are resistant to them, and none are outright immune AFAIK.

Reason for spell picks..

Blizzard/Crushing Prison - cone of cold/forcefield really are the stars, but finishing these lines first gives you the survivability you need in Nightmare, so these are your #1 priority. For the most of early to mid game, you're going to rely on CoC and shattering to quickly kill off enemies to more manageable bits

Death Cloud/Death Hex - Vulenrability + Affliction + Cloud + Hex = major damage. Other mages can piggy back by just casting Hex as well

Blood Mage - Blood Wound is the star, because you have access to AoE CC that does not affect friendlies. Blood Control I find is very useful, since it works on more reds than you would think, and yellows are always a safe bet

Spell Clash - tanks are vulnerable to other mages. Keeping them off the battlefield means one less thing to worry about. Just too bad I think the first three spells are crap, even spellmight because of its insane mana drain

Spell Wisp - best one point wonder in the game. Increasing your overall spell effectiveness by 5% for 5% more mana cost is a good deal, since you get to frontload your spells and your resistchecks are harder

Arcane Mastery - by this point, you have filled out all the necessary spell lines. So getting +5 spellpower for all your spell lines and more staff damage is great.

Walking Bomb - the last of the spirit line (it does spirit not nature oddly enough). Death Syphon would be useful in final battle since there's lots of minions to wipe out, but this line is more than just afterthought.


Equips
Staff of the Magister Lords - weaker in spellpower than Final Reason, but the fact that it does cold damage (which can be improved by equips) and gives mana regen makes it superior, on top of the reason it increases spirit damage
Ashen Gloves - +20% cold damage is great, since it affects your staff too
Tevinter Mage Robes - robes that give the best spellpower and mana regen
Helm of Honnleath - even if you didn't put anything in STR, you should have enough STR increasing items to meet equipping them, then unequip the STR items after
Fade Striders - yeah, the only boots that increase your spellpower
Amulet of the War Mage - quite funny that this isn't the 'best' item to unlock in DAJ, but its certainly the best 'extra' item so far
Andruil's Blessing - +mana regen AND +2 to all stats? Not worth the money in the beginning, but in the end it is
Dreamsever - +10% spirit, nuff said
Blood Ring - +5% spirit to reach the cap for +elemental damage, the blood magic increase is just gravy

[DragoonKain3]

As for Wynne (assuming you get her ASAP, which is around lvl 7 if you beeline towards Circle tower ASAP)

Starts with...
Arcane Bolt, Rock Armor, Stone Fist, Heal, Rejuv, Regen, Heroic Offense, Heroic Aura, Group Heal

8) Revival
9) Mass Rejuv
10) Earthquake
11) Heroic Defense
12) Life Ward
13) Spell Wisp
14) Grease
15) Spellbloom
16) Vulnerability Hex
17) Affliction Hex
18) Misdirection Hex
19) Death Hex
20) Stinging Swarm
21) Arcane Shield
22) Staff Mastery
23) Arcane Mastery

Reason for picks...

Mass Rejuv - mana/stamina regen for whole party. quite useful

Earthquake - quick cast AoE CC. VERY helpful in keeping people withing Blizzard. No petrify because my current Wynne has Petrify but RARELY ever uses it

Lifeward - extra healing, but revival is the only way to revive inbattle. No Cleansing Aura since that is too mana intensive

Spellbloom - keep this on a tacic like hero:mana < 100% --> Spellbloom, and its great. It's free cast for Wynne, and it gives you more mana for your hero than rejuv or mass rejuv in the same time frame

Death hex - piggybacking on the hero's death cloud is too good to pass up

Stinging Swarm - mana effecient and worry free. Excellent spell for support casters thats always under tactics

Staff mastery - since she won't be nuking, staff mastery is a must to contribute to dps. Arcane mastery is just gravy even if you don't get it.


Second specialiation for Wynne should be Blood Mage, and hero should be spirit healer just for their bonuses.

AND WTH? I thought topic was best non-chantry mage builds, then it changed... >_>

[Sindarai]

The best crowd-control is the one that is not resisted.



So I would suggest maximizing your Spellpower, with Spellwisp and Spell Might and equip good gear and then find the style that suits you most. There are different types of spells that allow for crowd-control, so pick the one that suits you best.



I would base my build on as much spellpower as I can get, since I do not want mobs to resist and then gang up on me.



You mention that you Level 5 Still, so if you want a Spell that you WILL use, pick up Spell Might, which I think rocks. It also opens up the mage-pawning Mana Clash, which, for one Skill-point, Mages crowd-controlling Mages obsolete...



I have seen many pick up Spellmight later in their build, I would pick it up as early as possible and pair it up with a mainstay crowd control, Cone of Cold for example.

Free Spell) Arcane Bolt (YAY!)

1) Winter's Grasp + Mind Blast

3) Frost Weapons

4) Cone of Cold

5) to 7) Go all the way to Spell Might



By about Level 7, you will have a very hard to resist Arsenal of Mind Blast, Winter's Grasp and Cone of Cold and have much room in your build to pick up what you want xD



Have fun, go to town

[Zenjamin]

Nobody seems to hold Walking Bomb in high regard. would it be a good idea to start over and get rid of it?

Or is it a verry legit spell?





Also, what is the general consensus on shape shifting?

[soteria]

Shapeshifting is bad. Don't forget the line that has horror, sleep, and waking horror in it. Morrigan already has points in that tree so maybe just have her take them, but they're pretty strong.

[Zenjamin]

and walking bomb?

[metatrans]

walking bomb isn't bad per se, its just hard to control. the risk is that a mob infected with Walking Bomb engages in melee with your party then detonates and you get hosed by friendly fire damage.



on normal difficulty this isn't so bad since friendly fire is only 50%, but on hard/nightmare FF is 100% so you can get wasted by your own spell if you're not careful.



if you use it tactically Walking Bomb is an excellent spell. make sure you cast it on mobs you can be sure won't melee you. this usually means archers. they tend to stand around in packs and stay at range, so if one of them blows up from the bomb it will take out some of its buddies. good tactic.



don't ever cast it on melee mobs unless you can also keep them mob under Paralyze or Crushing Prison or something so it won't run to you and blow up in your face.



also, Virulent Walking Bomb is MUCH harder to control. its almost impossible to prevent it from ending up on the wrong mob at some point, so its hard to use tactically. the first Walking Bomb is fine though if you're careful.

[El-Destructo]

I personally didn't like walking bomb because it usually resulted in the newly created Bomb-omb exploding my party when they die... requires too much micro or resist stacking to be worth it for me, although it is a rather evil and humorous way to get back at those melee companions you have a personal grudge against.

[DragoonKain3]

Virulent Walking Bomb though is great damage on its own. It has the second highest coeffecient in the game, second only to the death hex/cloud combo.



So using it on a red (who most likely won't die to the walking bomb) is a great spell for its effeciency.



But yeah, I toyed around with the spell with Morrigan, and it's like Storm of the Century... way too powerful and unweildly when other spells are safer but can do your AoE jobs just as well. Reason why its dead last in my picks.

[Trefecka]

I suppose the best answer is how much your willing to "cheese". While I wouldn't suggest it for your first playthrough, one option (as you've probably seen on the forums) is to grab FF, a tank with taunt, and then mix mass AOE CC+ damage.



Gather mobs up with tank, taunt to hold their attention, force field the tank, toss on a mass paralysis just to be safe, and then layer on the AOE. All those dangerous AOE spells taht were mentioned? Storm of the Century, (Virulent) walking bomb? Perfectly safe.



A less cheesy approach would be to use the actual CC spelss (mass paralysis, waking nightmare, blood wound) mixed with frost spells (Cone of cold is wonderful for damage + CC...freeze even works on frost immune mobs).



For stat allocation, i'm one of the advocates for 100% magic...boost your spellpower as high as it can go and use potions to boots your mana pool. Lyrium is dirt cheap, and high magic rating is suppose to boost potion effectiveness anyways soo....

[Haplose]

Glyph line is just awesome also.

Paralysis Glyph is so-so - it triggers on the first mob entering and is gone (so often will para just 1 mob).

Glyph of Warding is awesome, especially if your tank hasn't ignored Dex. Especially usefull on Nightmare. Makes tanks with good Defence almost unhittable - even by bosses.

Repulsion is very usefull, especially in chokepoints - tight corridors/doorways where it is great for the "divide and concquer" strategy of not fighting too many mobs at a time. Plus the enemy attempts to reach your party just to be knocked back on their asses are hilarious.



But the real power comes from combining Glyph of Repulsion with Glyph of Paralysis to create the mighty Paralysis Explosion combo. A large AOE Paralysis that has a very long duration. From what I've seen it even works decently on bosses. Just be carefull to not catch your party in the blast. After that your Rogue can go to town facestabbing everyone (provided he has Coup-de-Grace talent).



Glyph of Neutralization sounds pretty sexy too. Haven't had opportunity to take it yet.

It may not be Mana Clash, but at least all the prerequisites are great spells also. Instead of 3 useless spells for 1 good in Mana Clash line. Well, maybe 2 usefull spells if you're so keen to kill off your party with Spellmight's Storm of the Century combo or deplete your mana with SpellMight + Animate Dead combo. I personally prefer other spells though - like the Glyphs.

[Zilod]

there are many CC spells in dao, if you are going CC route the nightmare line in entrophy is a must to have

other good lines are ice, glyph, force fields and paralysis...

what to get depends by what you want to do and by your party, consider that, regardless of CC an healer is a good thing to have and also that mages have strong dps

personally i like group with 2 mages... you can have morry as cc/dps and you as healer/cc or have wyn as healer and you as offensive cc... if you dont want to have 2 mages then you are kinda stuck on healer/cc

for healer/cc i put up a build in my guide (link in my sig), for an offensive cc it depends a bit by taste... you can go with something like...

ice 4
electricity 3
glyph 3
mana 4
nightmare 3
hex 3

spec
bm 4
sh 1 (or 2)

you get storm of the century and glyph combo for aoe slaughtering, 2 cones, blizzard+storm (not in combo) is a good option too and mana clash to instapop mages, hex3 is good both to boost your dmg and for misdirection hex (pretty good to debuff bosses)... wyn should be specced as main healer + force fields, and glyphs

walking plague bomb is pretty good but can be problematic to set up a CC template for it could be
ice 4
glyph 3 (or paralysis 4)
plague 4
force field 4
nightmare 3
hex 2

spec
bm 4
sh 1

with leftover points a good idea can be to go for mana line mana clash and the adv raise dead combo.

Modifié par Zilod, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:04 .

[Mork_ba]

By what I get this is what you like:
I played through it on nightmare with morrigan specialized in most of what I'm saying here but glyphs and spirit(I had wynne take these) with rogue as my main. My style through that run was enter a room, CC the enemy mages fast kill them with the rogue while the tank went through melee/ranged targets taking htem on him. Right after I had the rogue after the mages I started with sleep spells and other CC to help the tank avoid taking damage by the mobs around him and then took them out with my warrior+rogue. Basicly in this game all spells are good and you can get by using exactly the build you like. By what I understand from your post, this is fitting enough to your style:



Primal:
Frost up to Cone of Cold. Best all-around cc spell(fast cast, aoe, short cooldown) Could end-up with blizzard as well, which coupled with tempest and spell might gives you the ultimate damaging aoe spell(Storm of the Century)
Then you can take the stone chain for earthquake, petrify and stonefist. But petrify's single target and while very nice, it's a 4point-investment whicih is a little expensive. Entropy and Spirit have other awsome spells to be taken.

Creation:
Glyphs: Paralysis, Repulsion, Warding.
If you stack paralysis and repulsion you do a paralytic explosion resulting in an aoe paralyze spell. Extremely useful.

Spirit:
Mind Blast, Crushing prison, Force field. Nice CC spells, while force field is friendly-targetable too, meaning you can protect a member from all harm. If you cast crushing prison on a target already affected by force field it explodes into a "Shockwave" droppnig enemies to the ground. You're gonna like both. Mind-blast resets aggro, so it's good to keep if you have enemies after your mage.

Entropy: Mass paralysis. Enough said. You're gonna adore this.
Spell/Horror: Sleep is aoe CC spell and horror single targeted. If you cast horror on a sleeping person he takes a ton of spirit damage(easily 150 or so)

Blood Mage Specialization:
Blood Control: Take control of an enemy target. If he resists he takes a lot of damage. EIther way you win.
Blood wound: AoE versioin of crushing prison. Targets are paralyzed and take damage over time for quite some time. Small radious though.


Edit: Btw, he asked for CC builds, guys, not utility, or anti-mage, or elemental, or debuffer

Modifié par Mork_ba, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:45 .

[Zilod]

Mork_ba wrote...

Edit: Btw, he asked for CC builds, guys, not utility, or anti-mage, or elemental, or debuffer

well if he goes with CC only and no other mage in his group he can CC as much as he want but whitout an healer some fights will be problematic

as said there are tons of CC, you dont need to get all of them (i outlined the good cc lines in my post too )... as you generally dont need all the CCs you can invest the other spells in other usefull things as dmg or healing so, when mobs are mezzed (or impossible to mez) he will still be usefull...
if you need more mezzing power, is generally better to have a bit more on another mage than to have all on 1 char, 2 mages mez faster than 1 and when you have the control of the field you can go support or dps

[Zenjamin]

Ya. I kinda thought it was a given that I would have another healer in my group. Likely wyrn, or whatever her name is.





Anyways, thanks guys. these are great posts.... I wish I had asked about walking bomb before I created my character though.

Oh well. live and learn. I was more thinking I just wanted to spread chaos among the enemy ranks, but I didnt realize how quickly those ranks would advance on my melee. bring the bomb to my base doesnt seem like the wisest tactical move



Now, one more thing.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are glyphs?.

[Zilod]

is the 3rd line in creation school, pretty nice one...



for walking plague bomb you can still use it, you have just to set it up correctly, the spell have tons of dmg potential and can be worth... you can do something like



sleep (on a group of mobs) -> affliction hex (boost spirit dmg in the area, better to not put it on the mob you want to kill) -> crushing prison or horror (on mob you want to kill) -> plague bomb



the mob wil go boom near his comrades and away from your party dealing a good amount amount of damage to the sleeping mobs around him



another strategy (even if is a bit an exploit) is to let the mob come and engage your tank put plague bomb on him and make your tank taunt back (or the mob will run at you, well you can use again crushing prison )... focus fire on hm and when he is about to die you can eventually force field your tank (or just give him a good res to spirit dmg)



give a look at the link in my sig, there are a few suggestions for combos like these and some examples to how to set up spells

[TheNecroFiend]

Since your focuse is on Crowd Control I say grab the walking bomb spells. They are awsome. Once you've got them locked down DOT them up with it and watch the XP roll in. Alot of people are stuck in the healorz mindset but with proper  use of crowd control abilities there is no need to be healed. Blood Wound + Virtulent Walking Bomb works really well.

[Mork_ba]

Zilod and Necrofiend are both correct. With proper CC both walking bomb and lack of heal(not complete, but you know, lack of dedicated healer) are controllable and when you learn to control them, you make better use of what you got. After all that's the good thing with magic...

[Haplose]

Zenjamin wrote...
Now, one more thing.
Forgive my ignorance, but what are glyphs?.

Like Zilod said, these are Creation spells. Different from others in that they place a magic symbol (Glyph) on the floor. It's basically a small aoe that lasts for a while. Repulsion knocks back everyone trying to enter the area. Warding boosts defence rating of allies standing inside, Paralysis is basically a paralyzing trap that activates when an enemy enters the area (and that's it, the effect ends - though the paralysed enemy will remain paralyzed for a while), Neutralization negates all spells inside and removes all mana from targets inside.

Then you have Glyph of Repulsion + Glyph of Paralysis - Paralysis Explosion combo which is a huge, potent, long lasting paralysis aoe (with friendly fire). A nice CC tactic is to put Repulsion in a choke point, using it to divide enemy forces and limit the number of enemies your characters are engaging and, after a while when Repulsion will be nearing end of duration, place Glyph of Paralysis on top - just make sure your characters aren't too close.