43 réponses à ce sujet

[konfeta]

Mages have so many CC spells I think it's practically impossible to build one and NOT pick a few of these up unless you go out of your way to avoid them. Generally, maxing out the Cold Primal line and the Force Effects Spirit line with high spellpower is literally all the Crowd control you need.



But really, every school has some. The only Primal line that doesn't offer any is Lightning. Creation Glyph line is amazingly effective and versatile for CC, and Grease is alright. Entropy has has the Sleep line. Spirit has the the Force line.

[metatrans]

i agree that you can get by without a dedicated healbot but i don't think you can do very well without access to strong healing on demand.



the Group Heal spell is such a ridiculous lifesaver that i would never play a party without access to it (either speccing PC mage into Spirit Healer or by using Wynne). Regeneration on the tank is also extremely efficient and tanking+regeneration can control almost any number of white named melee mobs. far more effective and mana efficient than trying to chain AoE crowd control continuously.



it can definitely be avoided. im not gonna argue that its not possible to get through those encounters without relying on tanking+healing. i will argue that tanking+healing is probably one of the simplest and most efficient ways to do it.



boss fights are another story entirely. each boss is a bit different but for some of the truly hard ones (Corrupted Spider Queen, High Dragon, Sloth Demon, etc.) I'm just not seeing how to do it without Group Heal. you can chug health poultices i suppose but thats really a brute force solution and certainly eats up alot of gold if you have to keep making normal and greater health poultices.



I think we've all seen the "difficulty settings" joke by now right.



0 mage = nightmare

1 mage = hard

2 mage = normal

3 mage = easy



well, its basically true but i'd say that if you're using a 1 mage group the mage HAS to be a defensive oriented mage (mostly healing with some crowd control). the real difficulty of the game seems scaled to your ability to control enemies rather than your DPS output. the multimage parties have the most control and the defensive healer/CC mage is the most controlling class in the game.

[Dasim4]

Zenjamin wrote...

and walking bomb?

My favorite thing to do with Walking Bomb kept it under control. I would put Crushing Prison on someone first and then top that off with Walking Bomb. They can't move and you can lock them down anywhere you like.  It works great on a group of archers since they are typically in a group and aren't likely to move. It also works ok if you have a strong tank with no other melee in the mix. I wouldn't recommend it early on before your tank has taunt or you have some way to lock down the mob. 99% of the time the mob you put walking bomb on will run straight to you the second after it hits them. That was my experience with it anyway.  

[Zenjamin]

Thanks for the advice guys. However, I am having one problem.

Someone suggested that I put all of my points into magic, and leave willpower alone. perhaps in part because mana pots were so cheap.
But, I find myself chugging mana pots way too often. It can really such when you go to cast a spell, donto have enough for it, and waste a second or two chugging a potion.


How much magic should I have, and how much willpower?

[bas273]

Willpower - 25

Magic - MAX, 60+



Good CC spells:

Cone of Cold

Virulent Walking Bomb

Crushing Prison (use CoC, then VWB and then CP)

Force Field

Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion

Spell Might + Blizzard + Tempest (Storm of the Century, very powerful AoE spell)

Fireball

Mana Clash (use this against mages)

[Zenjamin]

One last question....How does coercion work?

Is it like Mass effect, where not having high enough persuade can limit your options?



As a mage, should I have 16 points in cunning so I can get max coercion, or can the cunning of another in my party give me the option to use max coercion options.

[dkjestrup]

If you have all 4 points of coercion, you will pass every persuade or intimidate check in the game.



As a mage, you start with 11 cunning AFAIK (12 if you're a human). So after you've got the +5 cunning in the fade, you're all good for maxing persuade.

[Zenjamin]

Im a human mage, but I didnt get any cunning points in the fade.

Whats that about?

[Addai]

The Fade has these shimmery objects which, when interacted with, give you attribute bonuses. Often they are in out-of-the-way rooms. Some you can only interact with in Spirit form. They're hard to miss, are you sure you didn't get them?



I personally love Grease + Fireball for crowd control. It can be cast quickly and recharges quickly, Grease pins people down, then you have the knockdown + continuous damage effect of Fireball for a triple whammy. It doesn't do as much damage as some other AoE spells, but since the targets are slowed down you also have time to hit them with other things while they're picking their flaming butts off the ground. Sometimes they even get a second Fireball by the time they're on their feet.

[Mr_Raider]

WB and VWB is death to archers who just stand around, and there are a LOT of those in game. If you have a dedicated archer in your party, you can drop the bomb on the enemy back line and use her to trigger the bomb fast by focusing her fire.



At any rate, IMHO every mage needs the following in their arsenal:



1 Single target high damage spell

1 AoE high damage spell

1 single target control spell

1 AoE control spell



How you achieve this is up to you. Personnally, I've grown quite frond of the entire sleep line.

[weredog717]

don't forget the animated dead spell, using it takes a ton of mana, but it can work well if u don't have the best melee guys

[Sylvius the Mad]

Zenjamin wrote...

One last question....How does coercion work?
Is it like Mass effect, where not having high enough persuade can limit your options?

It's entirely unlike Mass Effect.  The persuade and intimidate dialogue options appear regardless of whether your Coersion skill is high enough.  If you choose one when your coersion skill is not high enough, you will fail.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 06 février 2010 - 12:21 .

[beancounter501]

Mr_Raider wrote...


How you achieve this is up to you. Personnally, I've grown quite frond of the entire sleep line.

Agreed.  It took me a while to get the hang of it, but the sleep line is just awesome.  The Nightmare combo, plus regular sleep and walking nightmare!  That is two AOE control spells + a single target control spell.

BTW, the save is all mental resistance which is the lowest save in the game for most melee critters.  There is no need to stack sleep + walking nightmare.  Just cast sleep and then walking nightmare once it wears off.

[dkjestrup]

VWB is brilliant, when used right. Soteria described a great use of it to kill trash mobs.



Cone of cold a group of enemies, then cast VWB on any enemy, preferably a white, then use stonefist or any other spell/talent to shatter them, which will cause them to explode, doing awesome AoE damage. If you can get 5 or so enemies in a group, then this can easily do 1.5k total damage or more. You don't have to shatter them, just kill them in any way. Casting Stinging Swarm is also a good idea, as it will spread as each target dies.



This is brilliant when you're fighting a boss and their adds. VWB an add, then shatter combo, then the boss takes huge damage.

[beancounter501]

When I was experimenting with VWB I had a hard time getting even two or three monsters in the blast radius. How are you getting 5? The vast majority of the time people were just exploding by themselves with maybe one other person close by. Seems like two or three fireballs would work out better.





Still, best boss killer is Entropic Death + Vulnerability/Afliction Hex, or even a simple death hex + 2 hasted melee toons.



Stinging Swarm is a really underrated spell, since everytime it jumps the duration resets. I have had the swarm going for 25 to 30 seconds before! Thats a lot of damage. To bad the other spells are so-so in that line.

[soteria]

Im a human mage, but I didnt get any cunning points in the fade.



Whats that about?

You'll go back to the fade, later. Different trip from the Harrowing.



And for VWB, you won't be able to get a huge group every time, since it does have a pretty small radius. The best way I've found is to use a chokepoint like a doorway to force them to clump up. Throw in a trap or a rune to stop the first couple, and soon you have a pile of monsters stuck in the door. CoC. VWB, shatter. Boom.



And, credit where credit is due: my brother was actually the one that suggested the "shattering bomb" combo. He doesn't post here, though. He doesn't play fair. He said he kills bosses by having his tank gather everything up, force field, and then walking bombs (multiple mages) on a bunch of the enemies. Then he blows them all up, and the boss usually dies. Or SotC + Blood Wound + Entropic Death.

[Zenjamin]

Addai67 wrote...

The Fade has these shimmery objects which, when interacted with, give you attribute bonuses. Often they are in out-of-the-way rooms. Some you can only interact with in Spirit form. They're hard to miss, are you sure you didn't get them?

Wait... rooms?
Do you go into the fade multiple times? The only time I have been in the fade was the verry first time, as an apprentence.

[dkjestrup]

Yeah, you go into the fade 2/3 times depending on how you play the game. The time where you get what they're talking about it unavoidable. Just, without spoiling it, go back to the Circle tower when you get the chance.

[x-president]

Zenjamin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The Fade has these shimmery objects which, when interacted with, give you attribute bonuses. Often they are in out-of-the-way rooms. Some you can only interact with in Spirit form. They're hard to miss, are you sure you didn't get them?

Wait... rooms?
Do you go into the fade multiple times? The only time I have been in the fade was the verry first time, as an apprentence.

You go back when you clear out the Circle Tower after you become a Grey Warden.