397 réponses à ce sujet

[huntrrz]

Arios1570 wrote...

I'm sorry, but the dark energy reason for the reapers doesn't fit. Especially if the Crucible was made to solve the problem. "What? You're building the thing we need to complete our mission?! That's it, we're running off with the thing you need to complete the job!" If that were the case, the reapers would have stopped harvesting and moved to help set up the Crucible.

I think the Crucible was designed by the entities that created the Citadel and the Mass Relays (we're told by the Reapers that THEY did that, but the Reapers could only be saying what they were programmed to) and the plans left behind for civilizations to find.  It's the means for ending the cycle, and a test for each generation - if they can summon the will, unity and resources to build the thing they have proven they no longer need Reaping to protect them from the 'inevitable cycle'.

If they had just gone with that, I'd be happy as a clam - use the Crucible as a killswitch for the Reapers.  No 'moral dilemna' or 'big choice' at the end (your choices during the game fill that role), the combination of your choices determines whether you brought enough people together to complete (and deliver) the Crucible.

[Shunt Mcblunt]

Reason I can not support the Mass Effect Dark Energy is based off ME1

Sovereign stated that they created the mass relay and the citadel to make us follow a set path to follow. So by doing this set path it causes us to create Dark Energy rather than no use it. So in the Dark Energy statement ME1 destroys it. If they wanted to solve Dark Energy they would have left the advanced species research behind so that others could learn and improve. Like we have learned from destroying our own environment. (IE. Fossil fuels were used would worldwide with no limits until we found out it destroys the world so we limit it use now.) If they did want to follow this way of thinking they could have kill off only the species that do not learn and show they do not care about the effects of Dark Energy.

Next they could have stated that Synthetics create dark energy. (IE. Halestrom - No one used that system expect Synthetics for 300 hundred years.) This could have easily caused the problem but then again it would not work because Rannoch would have suffered same effects.

Dark Energy was a bad plot line if the first "Reaper" does not inform you they are forcing you down a path to create dark energy if they are trying to stop it. Reapers making people into to AI or Indoctrinating them is a poor way of trying to solve the problem too.

Besides - Why should we be forced to make a choice by a kid that claims to be our creator. If he is our creator are we not suppose to rebel like he stated.

[Caelorummors]

Dark energy also makes no sense. If the Reapers "cannot figure out" how to stop the progression of dark energy while allowing life to continue, the answer is obvious. Organics using mass relays and increasing dark energy should simply be destroyed. The most effective way is to destroy all current civilizations, while not letting primitives life. Kill all of the organics, no more dark energy problem.

[Annie_Dear]

Just finnished the game and I have to say...

The ending reminds me of "Lost".

I hate that show. With a passion.

[Hyrist]

Yeah, sorry BioWare, but you should have gone with your first instincts on this one. The ending described here is by far better than the one shown in the current game. If you could return it as say an optional ending triggered by an added quest (perhaps the Catalyst lied?) then it all could happen.

As it was, I feel like I was setting the Geth/Quarian issue twice.

[Ashathor]

huntrrz wrote...

use the Crucible as a killswitch for the Reapers.  No 'moral dilemna' or 'big choice' at the end (your choices during the game fill that role), the combination of your choices determines whether you brought enough people together to complete (and deliver) the Crucible.

Something similar to this is all I ever wanted. I brought the whole freakin galaxy together and for what? So they can get stranded on earth/island "paradise"? Let there be room for failure if you did not manage to get almost every single species on your side, but there really was no feeling of "I'm glad the Geth/turians/krogan etc. came through for me!" It was just like "what was the point of all the war assets and the choices I did if it's just a three choices mechanic that doesn't even make sense?" <_<

[Dracotamer]

I can't figure out why Bioware would THROW AWAY Drew's ending!?!?

[beatrix.kiddo.bride]

 That original ending is SO much better. You could actually go on from that and show how your choices in the past games affected everyone after the final decision.

Why did they even throw out this ending? The writing was actually on level with the rest of the series...

[ReachEtaruN74]

Shunt Mcblunt wrote...

Reason I can not support the Mass Effect Dark Energy is based off ME1

Sovereign stated that they created the mass relay and the citadel to make us follow a set path to follow. So by doing this set path it causes us to create Dark Energy rather than no use it. So in the Dark Energy statement ME1 destroys it. If they wanted to solve Dark Energy they would have left the advanced species research behind so that others could learn and improve. Like we have learned from destroying our own environment. (IE. Fossil fuels were used would worldwide with no limits until we found out it destroys the world so we limit it use now.) If they did want to follow this way of thinking they could have kill off only the species that do not learn and show they do not care about the effects of Dark Energy.

Next they could have stated that Synthetics create dark energy. (IE. Halestrom - No one used that system expect Synthetics for 300 hundred years.) This could have easily caused the problem but then again it would not work because Rannoch would have suffered same effects.

Dark Energy was a bad plot line if the first "Reaper" does not inform you they are forcing you down a path to create dark energy if they are trying to stop it. Reapers making people into to AI or Indoctrinating them is a poor way of trying to solve the problem too.

Besides - Why should we be forced to make a choice by a kid that claims to be our creator. If he is our creator are we not suppose to rebel like he stated.

The codex states that by subjecting element zero to an electrical current creates dark energy. A basic description is here and a more in depth description is here.\\ The Reapers have no obligation to explain the problem especially if we cannot reasonably provide assistance in the solution.
Also, the current ending is a complete departure from what we understand as the "original" ending so it doesn't really apply to the discussion of the validity of the Dark Energy theory. However, I agree that it was a really odd and arbitrary move to have that kid in the game as the end... god... or whatever he is (obviously it's the crucible and an AI construct but still).

Caelorummors wrote...

Dark energy also makes no sense. If
the Reapers "cannot figure out" how to stop the progression of dark
energy while allowing life to continue, the answer is obvious. Organics
using mass relays and increasing dark energy should simply be destroyed.
The most effective way is to destroy all current civilizations, while
not letting primitives life. Kill all of the organics, no more dark
energy problem.

Space travel cannot exist as we understand it without the use of mass effect fields. So if a civilization had discovered that this gift was also the galaxy's undoing, they may have made themselves into the reapers into an attempt to solve the problem, but I digress. The reapers have a massive mass effect core within them that allows them to travel. They do destroy organic life that accelerates the buildup of dark energy, but in order for them to fix the problem, they have to exist. Aside from committing mass suicide (which wouldn't really solve the problem as organic life would just rise up again) there isn't really a solution that is that simple.
This may explain what I mean:

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Salty Specula wrote...

 I've read the dark energy original idea... That... I don't even...

It
makes even LESS sense than the atrocious ending in game now. By
converting species into Reapers, it stops dark energy buildup... How?
I'm apparently not intelligent enough to fill in the massive leap in
logic between those two points.

Think of it as a
galactic-scale version of global warming. But replace 'greenhouse gases'
with 'dark energy usage' and 'termperture change' with 'stars going
supernova.'

According the the e-zero envrionmentalist theory some of us had...


The
use of e-zero, in whatever form, gradually builds up on a galactic, not
local, scale (ie, it's the galactic-total that matters, not where it's
used exactly). As more mass effect cores and biotics and such exist, the
more dark energy builds up. If dark energy levels get too high, stars
like Haestrom start blowing up: weaker stars first, but the more stars
that blow up the more e-zero that gets made, and the more e-zero that
gets made the more it gets used...

The thing is/could be,
however, is that Dark Energy disipates with time. So rather than the
galaxies just destroy themselves, they have an equilibrium. Until
organic civilizations discover e-zero, start to make more and use it,
and act as a catalyst to their own environmental destruction. By the
time a civilization is sufficiently advanced to understand what they are
doing (which would be beyond us now: the 'incomprehensible' part of the
Reaper motives), they've already at the tipping point of no return.

Plus,
it doesn't help that mass effect technology really is a dominant
technology: other technologies may (or may not) exist, but people who
use the mass effect have better militaries, faster ships, and stronger
economies than those who don't. Everyone wants to use mass effect
technology, because not doing so is defeat to others. Even if the
Reapers didn't leave them the Mass Relays, once people discovered e-zero
they'd switch over.



In this context, the Reapers are the
galactic gardeners who prune the galaxy in able for it to keep going.
They allow life to grow, but end it before they can reach the dark
energy tipping point. The Reapers don't even have to be from this
galaxy: they could have started from other galaxies that died and tried
other methods, failing even if they knew the problem. The 50,000 year
mark could be the 'recovery period' for the galaxy to dissipate Dark
Energy safely.

'Worthy' species then get preserved as Reapers,
and the galaxy reset allows someone else to grow rather than everyone
die. Thus, our salvation through destruction, and the pinnacle of
evolution because everyone else kills themselves.


Because
e-zero tech is a dominant technology that gives everyone an inclination
towards mass effect usage, and their own dark energy extinction, the
inevitability. The Reaper trap with the Relays, rather than being
coutner-productive to their goals, gives order to that otherwise chaotic
process by which species find and utilize mass effect technology. The
Reapers guide us to where we were already going, in a controlled manner
that is 'safer' for the galaxy's continued existence.



Organics,
of course, don't understand the science of what they're doing, and
don't listen to warnings either because cheating is too attractive. So
now the Reapers reap first, because other methods didn't work.



What
would have been especially cool about this theory is that it would have
opened the door to the Reapers being negotiated with as an alternative
sort of ending. If the Crucible had been a device to trigger the
galactic extinction in a 'we'll destroy the galaxy with us', thus
denying the Reapers of their goal to preserve the galaxy, then there
could have been an ending in which Shepard stares down the Reapers, and
they blink.

I would like to complement this by adding a response to the most common objection to this theory.

If the use of eezo causes dark energy buildup, then:

1. Q: Why would the reapers leave us with the most powerful eezo cores in the galaxy?
     A: Because,
           
a.) the cycle only sees life capable of using the cores for at most the
final ten thousand years of the cycle--it's not as though as soon as
the reapers have finished cleaning house the the relays go into high use
immediately.
            b.) the careful placement of the mass relays allows the reapers to clean the universe with reletive ease,
           
c.) relays are like highways that ultimately use less energy in the
process of transporting matter from point a to point b than using the
equivalent of city speeds--although it is a massive amount of energy
that is used, because it is is a long straight shot, it will ultimately
use less energy than the constant output that is required to travel the
same long distance.
2. Q. Aren't each of the Reapers in possession of
an eezo core that's power is second only to mass relays? Doesn't this
contradict this idea right out of the gate?
     A: No, because
          
a.) the reapers spend most of their time in hibernation in dark space.
they are attempting to minimize the damage done by both spending the
majority of time in dark space, in hibernation.
           b.) the
reapers left the relays behind to enable minimalistic eezo use when
cleaning the universe of what they would view as a nearly "parasitic"
organic civilization.

Note that the relays must be a logical end
because if the rise of organic civilization is inevitable (which
ME states that it is) and that 1.c.) is true, then it is more efficient
to leave the relays behind to enable a fast search and destroy than
either searching blind or physically travelling to every single galaxy.
Also this would enable the Reapers to assess the usefulness of the
species to the solving of the Dark Energy problem and uplifting those
races through their destruction.

Personally, I have a friend that
we discussed this concept before and during ME2, and we thought the
collectors were going to be some form of preserving key elements of each
species so that if the Dark Energy problem was ever solved, they could
re-populate the galaxy with the species they felt necessary to
extinguish at the time. Personally, I would have liked the collectors
much better if this had been their purpose because it seems easier for
the Reapers to just "reproduce" when they are mass harvesting than to
sneak around during the cycle collecting what is the equivalent of small
change. Plus the collector's work in my friend's and my scenario allows
for research to be done on which species would prove the most useful in
solving the Dark Energy threat.

Note: a small group of "galactic
gardeners" would represent only mild amounts of Dark Energy buildup. It
is the rise of an entire civilization and the excessive use of the
relays/buildup of DE that is detrimental to the universe.

Note
also, that I am not saying that what the reapers is doing (mass
genocide) is good or even justified, but merely attempting to understand
the basic framework of their motivation and the logic/reasoning behind
the various actions. (The reapers's "unknowability" is maintained in
that the actual search for the cure and the understanding of the cure to
DE has taken the reapers millions of years/cycles must represent the
overwhelming complexity of the problem--the unknowability of the
potential cure to organic life).

What would be incredibly cool
IMO is if in the ME universe, the Reapers were doing this to multiple
systems. It would make sense. Why would this galaxy hold life and others
wouldn't? Of course they eventually would so they would need their own
"gardeners."

[ArmyKnifeX]

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

I hate to be the jerk who criticizes all the hard work done and from the sidelines at that, but I don't know who decided that changed the overall story arc was a good idea, but you had the most brilliant ending dropped into your lap and you threw it away for an ending that in no way gives any sort of justice to the masterpiece you almost created -- the legacy you almost left.

Do something.

Bring back the original writers for an "Ilos," for a "suicide mission," and for a "take earth back."

Please. FIX THIS. I BEG YOU.

http://www.ign.com/b...lers.250066288/

EDIT: I don't care if you patch it, or DLC it. Do SOMETHING. Your fans deserve this.

Sorry for jumping in late... but that original ending is perfectly in line with EVERYTHING that has been leading up to the ending for ME3.

Beyond that, though, the changeup in writers really explains why this game felt like it was written by people who didn't understand the ME universe or the characters or the entire purpose surrounding choice. Beyond that, the latest Codex entries seem to lack a lot of the scientific grounding 
(i.e. REALITY) that they had in the previous games. Some things that stand out to me include the codex entries on what space combat would be like, how ships ID other ships, the necessity for heat management, and what looking out a window in FTL travel would be like. All of those are awesome and absolutely grounded in our current understanding of the physical world. Then we get green-energy clouds making people grow glowy circuits. And pewpew lasers.

[ReachEtaruN74]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

I hate to be the jerk who criticizes all the hard work done and from the sidelines at that, but I don't know who decided that changed the overall story arc was a good idea, but you had the most brilliant ending dropped into your lap and you threw it away for an ending that in no way gives any sort of justice to the masterpiece you almost created -- the legacy you almost left.

Do something.

Bring back the original writers for an "Ilos," for a "suicide mission," and for a "take earth back."

Please. FIX THIS. I BEG YOU.

http://www.ign.com/b...lers.250066288/

EDIT: I don't care if you patch it, or DLC it. Do SOMETHING. Your fans deserve this.

Sorry for jumping in late... but that original ending is perfectly in line with EVERYTHING that has been leading up to the ending for ME3.

Beyond that, though, the changeup in writers really explains why this game felt like it was written by people who didn't understand the ME universe or the characters or the entire purpose surrounding choice. Beyond that, the latest Codex entries seem to lack a lot of the scientific grounding 
(i.e. REALITY) that they had in the previous games. Some things that stand out to me include the codex entries on what space combat would be like, how ships ID other ships, the necessity for heat management, and what looking out a window in FTL travel would be like. All of those are awesome and absolutely grounded in our current understanding of the physical world. Then we get green-energy clouds making people grow glowy circuits. And pewpew lasers.

In all honesty, they could have made it work, but here are my objections with it as it is and why it feels like the dark energy ending fits better in the ME universe. I've also made a ton of other posts that you could read as supplementary to my personal opinion that I'll lay out here.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...


The current ending:

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

The current ending is defined by a
moral dilemma which the course of gameplay can prove to be incorrect.
The catalyst says that conflict between synthetic and organic is
inevitable because (and this is the important part) the synthetics must
realize their superiority and cast down the inferior organics.
Based
off a paragon playthrough (i have not yet finished a renegade
playthrough) the geth have always wanted peace with the creators
(quarians) but have been unable to even pursue the option because the
creators have forced them into conflict at every turn.
After a
successful (paragon) resolution, even with the immense superiority that
(as defined by the catalyst) must cause conflict, the geth instead find
creative ways to assist the quarians. This is an impossible situation by
the catalyst's logic. Thus the "deep moral dilemma" of the current
ending is moot.

Also, relays cannot go from being the most
destructive force in the galaxy (even surpassing Reapers) when they
explode in Arrival to harmlessly disassembling themselves at the end of
3. They are destroyed, not disassembled. The destruction of the relays
(of which the citadel is among them if you remember) would be absolutely
devastating to the entire galaxy.

The lore does not fit for this to be the original ending. It feels forced, rushed and unnatural.

^ I can elaborate on my issues with the current ending if necessary as this is only a short list of the most pertinent issues.

The "original" ending:

The codex states that by subjecting element zero to an electrical current creates dark energy. A basic description is here and a more in depth description is here.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...



The conversation between Tali, Shepard, and Kal'Reegar establishes the danger/importance of dark energy.
3:20
Shepard: "What does that dark energy buildup mean? Is it something we should worry about?"
3:26
Tali: "Hopefully it's an isolated, some rare phenomenon. If dark energy can destabilize solar material..."
Tali:
"Probably not something to worry about now, but resources are scarce
enough in the galaxy without stars suddenly going dead."

This is
foreshadowing as it seems to have no direct connection to anything else.
Otherwise it would be pointless banter. Pointless banter doesn't have
galaxy wide implications.

Also it would make sense for the geth
following the Reapers to be researching the data on that star if the
Reapers were looking for a way to stop the buildup of dark energy.
Unfortunately, you don't really get to ever ask the geth following the
Reapers about this as the only opportunity for this would have been in
Mass Effect 3.

the reason the dark energy ending fits where the current ending
does not is because it allows for the reapers to maintain their
unknowability and it presents an actual moral dilemma at the conclusion.
On
top of these, it provides the casual RPGer with a sense of
accomplishment and completion while giving the hard core RPGer the sense
of reality that the impending doom of the galaxy provides.

It
maintains the Reaper's unknowability because, if they have been around
for millions of years and haven't been able to solve the problem, it
must at some level be beyond comprehension while the framework (basic
concept) is understandable which allows for the moral dilemma.
The
moral dilemma is that the Reapers may be the only hope for the galaxy's
continued existance but at the cost of countless lives (end justifies
the means--Renegade) or you can destroy the Reapers and hope that the
combined minds of the organic species can solve the problem (lesser of
two evils--paragon).

This is assuming there is not some random "all the relays blow up" falacy.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

The
concept behind the Dark Energy ending is that dark energy will
eventually consume the universe and the reapers are attempting to stop
it and preserve the universe.
The harvesting would serve two purposes.
    
1. Removing the organic life that likely speeds up the buildup of Dark
Energy (probably from the excessive use of the mass relays--on a side
note, this is probably why the reapers spend so much time in dark space
and in hibernation as they have massive mass effect cores)
     2. Finding species that they think can help them in the search for the "cure."
The
geth / quarian struggle actually disproves the theory that is put out
at the end of ME3 as the crux of the big moral dilemma. If synthetics
were destined to inevitably seek out conflict with organics, than
Legion's mission in ME3 where records revealing that the only reason
that the geth were engaged in conflict was because of the creators's
constant attempts at genocide against the geth (and also the
manipulation by sovreign) would be an impossiblity.

[Billabong2011]

I like both reasons... sue me.
((Regardless of the Reapers' motivations, the endings don't suck because of them - they suck because they're poor quality)).
If they could've found a way to meld the two together, I would've been such a happy camper...

Modifié par Billabong2011, 10 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[Nobrandminda]

Huh.

The old ending reminds me of an anime called Gurren Lagann. It had the same gist: heroes fighting an oppressing force who just want to stop the end of the universe.

[ReachEtaruN74]

Billabong2011 wrote...

I like both reasons... sue me.
((Regardless of the Reapers' motivations, the endings don't suck because of them - they suck because they're poor quality)).
If they could've found a way to meld the two together, I would've been such a happy camper...

Lol I hear ya. I think they could've made the current ending work without all the lore contradictions, but imho (if you couldn't tell by my plethora of posts lol) I favor the Dark Energy ending for the reason that it promotes plot cohesion the best as I understand the ME universe.

[ArmyKnifeX]

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

I hate to be the jerk who criticizes all the hard work done and from the sidelines at that, but I don't know who decided that changed the overall story arc was a good idea, but you had the most brilliant ending dropped into your lap and you threw it away for an ending that in no way gives any sort of justice to the masterpiece you almost created -- the legacy you almost left.

Do something.

Bring back the original writers for an "Ilos," for a "suicide mission," and for a "take earth back."

Please. FIX THIS. I BEG YOU.

http://www.ign.com/b...lers.250066288/

EDIT: I don't care if you patch it, or DLC it. Do SOMETHING. Your fans deserve this.

Sorry for jumping in late... but that original ending is perfectly in line with EVERYTHING that has been leading up to the ending for ME3.

Beyond that, though, the changeup in writers really explains why this game felt like it was written by people who didn't understand the ME universe or the characters or the entire purpose surrounding choice. Beyond that, the latest Codex entries seem to lack a lot of the scientific grounding 
(i.e. REALITY) that they had in the previous games. Some things that stand out to me include the codex entries on what space combat would be like, how ships ID other ships, the necessity for heat management, and what looking out a window in FTL travel would be like. All of those are awesome and absolutely grounded in our current understanding of the physical world. Then we get green-energy clouds making people grow glowy circuits. And pewpew lasers.

In all honesty, they could have made it work, but here are my objections with it as it is and why it feels like the dark energy ending fits better in the ME universe. I've also made a ton of other posts that you could read as supplementary to my personal opinion that I'll lay out here.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...


The current ending:

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

The current ending is defined by a
moral dilemma which the course of gameplay can prove to be incorrect.
The catalyst says that conflict between synthetic and organic is
inevitable because (and this is the important part) the synthetics must
realize their superiority and cast down the inferior organics.
Based
off a paragon playthrough (i have not yet finished a renegade
playthrough) the geth have always wanted peace with the creators
(quarians) but have been unable to even pursue the option because the
creators have forced them into conflict at every turn.
After a
successful (paragon) resolution, even with the immense superiority that
(as defined by the catalyst) must cause conflict, the geth instead find
creative ways to assist the quarians. This is an impossible situation by
the catalyst's logic. Thus the "deep moral dilemma" of the current
ending is moot.

Also, relays cannot go from being the most
destructive force in the galaxy (even surpassing Reapers) when they
explode in Arrival to harmlessly disassembling themselves at the end of
3. They are destroyed, not disassembled. The destruction of the relays
(of which the citadel is among them if you remember) would be absolutely
devastating to the entire galaxy.

The lore does not fit for this to be the original ending. It feels forced, rushed and unnatural.

^ I can elaborate on my issues with the current ending if necessary as this is only a short list of the most pertinent issues.

The "original" ending:

The codex states that by subjecting element zero to an electrical current creates dark energy. A basic description is here and a more in depth description is here.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...



The conversation between Tali, Shepard, and Kal'Reegar establishes the danger/importance of dark energy.
3:20
Shepard: "What does that dark energy buildup mean? Is it something we should worry about?"
3:26
Tali: "Hopefully it's an isolated, some rare phenomenon. If dark energy can destabilize solar material..."
Tali:
"Probably not something to worry about now, but resources are scarce
enough in the galaxy without stars suddenly going dead."

This is
foreshadowing as it seems to have no direct connection to anything else.
Otherwise it would be pointless banter. Pointless banter doesn't have
galaxy wide implications.

Also it would make sense for the geth
following the Reapers to be researching the data on that star if the
Reapers were looking for a way to stop the buildup of dark energy.
Unfortunately, you don't really get to ever ask the geth following the
Reapers about this as the only opportunity for this would have been in
Mass Effect 3.

the reason the dark energy ending fits where the current ending
does not is because it allows for the reapers to maintain their
unknowability and it presents an actual moral dilemma at the conclusion.
On
top of these, it provides the casual RPGer with a sense of
accomplishment and completion while giving the hard core RPGer the sense
of reality that the impending doom of the galaxy provides.

It
maintains the Reaper's unknowability because, if they have been around
for millions of years and haven't been able to solve the problem, it
must at some level be beyond comprehension while the framework (basic
concept) is understandable which allows for the moral dilemma.
The
moral dilemma is that the Reapers may be the only hope for the galaxy's
continued existance but at the cost of countless lives (end justifies
the means--Renegade) or you can destroy the Reapers and hope that the
combined minds of the organic species can solve the problem (lesser of
two evils--paragon).

This is assuming there is not some random "all the relays blow up" falacy.

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

The
concept behind the Dark Energy ending is that dark energy will
eventually consume the universe and the reapers are attempting to stop
it and preserve the universe.
The harvesting would serve two purposes.
    
1. Removing the organic life that likely speeds up the buildup of Dark
Energy (probably from the excessive use of the mass relays--on a side
note, this is probably why the reapers spend so much time in dark space
and in hibernation as they have massive mass effect cores)
     2. Finding species that they think can help them in the search for the "cure."
The
geth / quarian struggle actually disproves the theory that is put out
at the end of ME3 as the crux of the big moral dilemma. If synthetics
were destined to inevitably seek out conflict with organics, than
Legion's mission in ME3 where records revealing that the only reason
that the geth were engaged in conflict was because of the creators's
constant attempts at genocide against the geth (and also the
manipulation by sovreign) would be an impossiblity.

I actually finished a playthrough of an unfinished ME2 game to use in ME3 not too long ago, and that was one of the conversations I had recently, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Like I said before, this game smacked of writers who didn't understand or even do basic research on the universe they were writing in from a technical point of view, let alone characters. Shepard went from being a badass hero who faced down countless enemies and cared about his men to being a broken commander weeping over every little thing. Yes, he lost his good friends along the way, but no - this wasn't the first time it had happened. I don't remember him crying so much after Virmire. Or if he killed Wrex, over Wrex.

Furthermore, the dark energy plot is actually something a civilization would care enough about to create the Reapers in the first place. "Preventing chaos" is just some arrogant stupid excuse that any civlization of the technical capacity to create both the Mass Relays and the Reapers probably wouldn't bother with. Why care, when you can escape the cycle yourselves?

[ReachEtaruN74]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...


I actually finished a playthrough of an unfinished ME2 game to use in ME3 not too long ago, and that was one of the conversations I had recently, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Like I said before, this game smacked of writers who didn't understand or even do basic research on the universe they were writing in from a technical point of view, let alone characters. Shepard went from being a badass hero who faced down countless enemies and cared about his men to being a broken commander weeping over every little thing. Yes, he lost his good friends along the way, but no - this wasn't the first time it had happened. I don't remember him crying so much after Virmire. Or if he killed Wrex, over Wrex.

Furthermore, the dark energy plot is actually something a civilization would care enough about to create the Reapers in the first place. "Preventing chaos" is just some arrogant stupid excuse that any civlization of the technical capacity to create both the Mass Relays and the Reapers probably wouldn't bother with. Why care, when you can escape the cycle yourselves?

Yeah! It makes me wonder if the collectors were meant to be that species that may have created the reapers with the purpose of collecting organics so that if the dark energy problem was ever solved, they could re-seed the universe with all the species that they had destroyed in order to find the solution. Then at the end of ME2, you could have freed all those races which would have made the "paragon" option in ME3 seem all the more like a valid option (insead of having the current races try to solve the problem which seems absolutely impossible, you have every race from the past who-knows-how-many cycles).

I think if bioware makes a new ending, they could add a twist that the citadel holds enough samples to rebirth every race (probably as embryos in stasis?) as the reapers final action before retreating back to dark space then along with the knowledge you could gain from the reapers's memory cores, and the resources of so many species, you would have a near even choice at the end. Let the reapers try to solve the problem or kill the reapers, release all the species, and use the knowledge that the reapers had gained on dark energy (maybe stored in the citadel's data banks?) to try to solve the problem.

[Qutayba]

The "original ending" offers a clearer difference between the choices: Save Earth and take your chances vs. Sacrifice all of humanity for a greater good. A step up. However, I'm not sure that it would provide any more closure than what we got.

We'd still be in a position where the final choice was some sort of abstract philosophical question completely divorced from your past actions and your friends. It's a very interesting philosophical question, indeed, but Mass Effect has always made those questions part of the lore rather than part of the action.

[Asuka Bianchini]

I keep trying to believe that ME3's ending is all in Shepard's mind, something as she trying to fight the indocrination and the destroy options means set the citadel for the crucible.
And then the stargazer actually tips for ME4. Where we have a ****ed up Shepard rising in the middle of this new post war world, and finding out about the dark energy, so ME4 is about finding a solution to that.
I wouldn't care AT ALL that Shepard's story continues. Really. And in my head there is room for that, using the original dark energy plot.

[Rob8228]

Billabong2011 wrote...

I like both reasons... sue me.
((Regardless of the Reapers' motivations, the endings don't suck because of them - they suck because they're poor quality)).
If they could've found a way to meld the two together, I would've been such a happy camper...

I agree, the quality of the ending was awful, that is the main reason people are so upset..

[Sorayai]

I just want a happy ending where my crew / Shepard survives and she gets to be with Kaidan. really. to hell with the galaxy, I just want Shepard to be with her crew.

I don't understand why the Normandy (and Kaidan, who was with me on the final mission) randomly ended up in some unknown place.... it was just such a vague ending. meh.

Modifié par Sorayai, 10 mars 2012 - 09:00 .

[Crash Okami]

This plot sounded way more engaging than just "kill Reapers"... It gives me a sense of hope, but I know that nothing's gonna end well. I like feeling this weird when I watch movies, read books/comics, or play video games. Makes me feel alive, somehow, away from all the "all ended well" plots, for my own reasons.

Anyway, do we have evidence that this truly existed? If it's fanfic, BioWare, go hire that guy, and fire your current ones. Sure, they helped build the Mass Effect universe, but the last moments of Mass Effect 3 are weak, compared to all the potential it had, and what it could be. I'm mostly fine with the current endings, but if this plot was instead used, I'd be happier about its inclusion.

[Apocsapel91]

Malachite73 wrote...
@DarkSpider88: It appears so... some stupid ass hacker is responsible for tainting the original ending... all though it doesn't help that the new ending was terribly written.

The hacker isn't resposible for the change.  It's all on Bioware's response to that leak.  If we go down the road of blame, it all ends up at the inception of this universe (however you choose to believe it happened).

[Supersomething]

Heh should have seen this coming after Bioware stated they were going to be 'revising' the Mass Effect Novel: Deception.

[Dean_the_Young]

Shunt Mcblunt wrote...

Reason I can not support the Mass Effect Dark Energy is based off ME1

Sovereign stated that they created the mass relay and the citadel to make us follow a set path to follow. So by doing this set path it causes us to create Dark Energy rather than no use it.

Except e-zero is already a naturally occuring substance, and Mass Effect tech a dominant technology path. People would use it anyway in an unorderly, less controllable mess.

. If they wanted to solve Dark Energy they would have left the advanced species research behind so that others could learn and improve.

Those advanced species are now known as 'Reapers.'

Like we have learned from destroying our own environment. (IE. Fossil fuels were used would worldwide with no limits until we found out it destroys the world so we limit it use now.) If they did want to follow this way of thinking they could have kill off only the species that do not learn and show they do not care about the effects of Dark Energy.

Except, why do people still use fossile fuels? Because there's every advantage in using them regardless. The Reapers don't need to be super-cops.

Next they could have stated that Synthetics create dark energy. (IE. Halestrom - No one used that system expect Synthetics for 300 hundred years.)

Everyone who uses e-zero, from biotics to mechs, uses dark energy.

This could have easily caused the problem but then again it would not work because Rannoch would have suffered same effects.

Not if it's a galactic, not local, effect. Or if Rannoch's sun was not as close to the point as Haestrom.

Haestrom could simply be the 'tip of the iceberg', so to speak: like an already sick person is more prone to catching a disease, older/weaker stars die first.

It would be unreasonable to presume they would all die at the same time.

Dark Energy was a bad plot line if the first "Reaper" does not inform you they are forcing you down a path to create dark energy if they are trying to stop it. Reapers making people into to AI or Indoctrinating them is a poor way of trying to solve the problem too.

The nature of the problem is such that the Reapers don't think any organic can solve it, so why should they tell us?

You're confusing exposition with integrity.

Besides - Why should we be forced to make a choice by a kid that claims to be our creator. If he is our creator are we not suppose to rebel like he stated.

He doesn't claim to be our creator.