397 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

Greed1914 wrote...

I had wondered why we never heard anything about Dark Energy again. I flew by Haestrom to meet the Quarians and wondered about that sun that was aging too fast, and heard nothing. Seems like a sun aging too fast might be a big deal, certainly big enough that I could believe that it was a matter big enough to motivate the Reapers.

I had avoided reading anything related to the leaked script because I figured that they wouldn't actually change much, anything, so it's rather disappointing to see that it probably would have been very different. Even if the choices weren't any better, at least they would have made more sense. I mean, the whole premise of man vs. machine kind of falls apart when you have examples like the Geth and EDI. It might still work if you didn't resolve those in a favorable manner, but at least the dark energy angle wouldn't fly in the face of what happened in the game.

"Synthetics will always rebel and wipe out their makers." Really? Because I just brokered a peace between two such groups, and it worked largely because said synthetics were not inherently hostile. And a human is currently dating an AI, so I'd say it's worth letting things play out for a while.

It's also rather interesting/concerning that Drew Karphsyn left the company entirely right before the game came out. Maybe it means nothing, but maybe it also means that there were problems that he saw that weren't going to be fixed.

That's quite a leap of logic. The game presents us with the problem that synthetics always rebel against their creators, and you are going to use current events as a logical example to why the game is wrong? How old is the Galaxy exactly? How old has this process been occurring? "Longer than you can fathom."

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to shout at the Guardian and remind it about my progress and that we should be able to risk it...but it isn't that very persuasive of an example.

[Kmead15]

askanec wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn's proposed dilemma is:

(a) Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left

or

( Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means.

In option (a), you are putting the entire galaxy at risk. There is no certainty a solution might be found. Everyone could be wiped out. It's a danger that is bigger than the Reapers. Even they can't solve it.

However, in (, you are sacrificing the humans so everyone else can be saved. One race out of many others. There is no 100% certainty, but there is at least a better chance. Surely, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

That is a no-brainer. Assuming the Reapers are telling the truth, as I see it, the only right answer is (. Basically, this is just an illusion of choice. I'd like to hear the justification of people who would select (a).

In any case, the players would not know the outcome of their decision (the outcome cannot be shown or people will simply reload and select the right one, thereby making the "choice" even more pointless). We're simply switching the Reapers for dark-energy-crisis. How would such an "ending" be better? Can the galaxy defeat real boss Dark Energy? Big question mark. The end.

(A) because genetic diversity helping solve dark energy is complete BS and there's no real reason to believe the Reaper's methods are effective. Heck, maybe if the stopped harvesting civilizations every 50,000 years, one would actually stand a chance to become advanced enough to do something about it. Their plan is dumb, they are dumb, and sacrificing billions to help them is dumb.

I agree completely with your last paragraph though. They'd be introducing a new threat then ending on a cliff hanger. We'd end up with even less closure than we do now.

[ReachEtaruN74]

askanec wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn's proposed dilemma is:

(a) Kill the Reapers and put your faith in the races of the galaxy in finding another way to stop the spread with what little time is left

or

( Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means.

In option (a), you are putting the entire galaxy at risk. There is no certainty a solution might be found. Everyone could be wiped out. It's a danger that is bigger than the Reapers. Even they can't solve it.

However, in (, you are sacrificing the humans so everyone else can be saved. One race out of many others. There is no 100% certainty, but there is at least a better chance. Surely, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

That is a no-brainer. Assuming the Reapers are telling the truth, as I see it, the only right answer is (. Basically, this is just an illusion of choice. I'd like to hear the justification of people who would select (a).

In any case, the players would not know the outcome of their decision (the outcome cannot be shown or people will simply reload and select the right one, thereby making the "choice" even more pointless). We're simply switching the Reapers for dark-energy-crisis. How would such an "ending" be better? Can the galaxy defeat real boss Dark Energy? Big question mark. The end.

In my opinion, the dark energy theory at least holds the option for the survival of Shepard. While this is not the end goal of the game, casual gamers will find this so much more satisfying than what is currently available.

Also, the ability to see the universe continue in its current form (meaning not destroying the relays as a primarly point) gives the universe a feeling of continuity. As it is, the current ending basically puts the player in a position of feeling like nothing that was done in any of the games matters in the slightest because in the end, the state of the universe will be so different that it cannot be compared to the current universe and you cannot reasonably say you did it for anyone. The current ending is the equivilent of forcing the universe into a dark age regardless of what you chose.

Modifié par ReachEtaruN74, 10 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Luigitornado]

Kmead15 wrote...

Eh, don't like this ending. Genetic diversity and dark energy are actual things. The thought that one could be the cure of the other is... laughable. I can't say I like the "Oh no, synthetics are totally going to wipe organic civilization out unless I wipe organic civilizations out with my synthetics" explanation, but at that that is merely idiocy from the people who made the Reapers instead of complete nonsensibility from the universe.

I still don't understand why people are not accepting this.

The idea behind it is to make room for new organic life to evolve. If some rouge AI rebels against its creators it is led to believe they will anihilate all organic life...not just advance organic life. ALL OF IT! 

The Reapers police this and balance what has been explained as a never ending cycle.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 10 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Devin the Wanderer]

Huh. Woulda preferred that WAY more.

Also makes sense, I was like "What the hell, they made such a big deal out of Haestrom, and now nothing?"

Back in 2 I thought it was some sorta Reaper plot or something. Kinda pissed I heard about this, it makes me a little angry. That would have ACTUALLY left room for sequels, too.

[ReachEtaruN74]

As a side note, if they did this on purpose to coercer us into buying a DLC that fixes this, I will probably be more upset than I currently am. The current ending is so bad that it has literally ruined the entire series, and if this was merely a ploy for financial gain, I will NEVER be able to forgive EA for making Mass Effect into a means for financial gain through such an underhanded maneuver.

Modifié par ReachEtaruN74, 10 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[Luigitornado]

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Because obviously there is conclusive evidence that the ending was changed. Oh wait...no there isn't.

... Well... I suppose if you ignore Mass Effect 1 and 2 and the lore that they present, then since bioware has not made an official statement, deniability is a plausible course of action.
Like I said earlier, given the lore and hints at dark energy and the pattern of the reapers ("salvation through destruction") along with the implausibility of the current ending with the lore of the geth's desired relationship with the creators (quarians), it is logical that the dark matter ending is plausible and the current one is not.

There is also a enough information/themes in ME1 and 2 that make the Reaper's motivation in ME3 viable

[Zeju]

Actually I just realised WHY I dislike the Catalyst, and belive me I havn't been looking for a reason I just didnt like it, it was there nagging me, but it's a universal Reaper off-switch, isnt it? It's not really a fight. Its just. Hide. Someone else builds this thing, and you make the sacrifice..

[Vasparian]

None of the endings in the ME3 that was released are any kind of ending. It's just a quick cut scene, a crash, and credits. The game 7th saga on SNES had a longer ending and it was just final boss THE END. I am very disappointed in Bioware. Hell DA2 had more of an ending than ME3's.

[John Locke N7]

Zeju wrote...

Actually I just realised WHY I dislike the Catalyst, and belive me I havn't been looking for a reason I just didnt like it, it was there nagging me, but it's a universal Reaper off-switch, isnt it? It's not really a fight. Its just. Hide. Someone else builds this thing, and you make the sacrifice..

a Deus Ex Machina was bound to happen. this one just destroyed life as we know it ASWELL as the repears.

[Malachite73]

Kmead15 wrote...

Eh, don't like this ending. Genetic diversity and dark energy are actual things. The thought that one could be the cure of the other is... laughable. I can't say I like the "Oh no, synthetics are totally going to wipe organic civilization out unless I wipe organic civilizations out with my synthetics" explanation, but at that that is merely idiocy from the people who made the Reapers instead of complete nonsensibility from the universe.

If you're complaint is scientific feasibility in a universe that is based around "element zero" you are probably in the wrong place.

[Jaryk]

movieguyabw wrote...

Eh, that's still not very good. They should've just not had the Guardian scene in the first place. Who cares if we know why the Reapers are doing all of this?

So much this.

The whole "something behind the reapers" part of the story was barely even touched upon before the last couple minutes, and without more foreshadowing or explanation in the game, it all seems to come out of left field.  The writers should have either cut it completely, or let that part of the story be told by whoever would follow Shepard's story in the Mass Effect universe (assuming the franchise continued).

[mione]

I was wondering where/when the dark energy plot line went. . .

[ReachEtaruN74]

Malachite73 wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

Eh, don't like this ending. Genetic diversity and dark energy are actual things. The thought that one could be the cure of the other is... laughable. I can't say I like the "Oh no, synthetics are totally going to wipe organic civilization out unless I wipe organic civilizations out with my synthetics" explanation, but at that that is merely idiocy from the people who made the Reapers instead of complete nonsensibility from the universe.

If you're complaint is scientific feasibility in a universe that is based around "element zero" you are probably in the wrong place.

Thank you, Malachite. By the goddess...

[marshalleck]

That dark energy ending is pretty awful, lol.

Can't say I'm thrilled with ME3's ending, though I liked the 'synthesis' option. Still--genetic diversity saving the galaxy from dark energy? What? That grass isn't greener, folks.

[ReachEtaruN74]

Luigitornado wrote...

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Because obviously there is conclusive evidence that the ending was changed. Oh wait...no there isn't.

... Well... I suppose if you ignore Mass Effect 1 and 2 and the lore that they present, then since bioware has not made an official statement, deniability is a plausible course of action.
Like I said earlier, given the lore and hints at dark energy and the pattern of the reapers ("salvation through destruction") along with the implausibility of the current ending with the lore of the geth's desired relationship with the creators (quarians), it is logical that the dark matter ending is plausible and the current one is not.

There is also a enough information/themes in ME1 and 2 that make the Reaper's motivation in ME3 viable

If you're talking about pure "motivation," sure. But this is a discussion of the formation of both motivation and lore, the motivation does not fit.

[askanec]

Kmead15 wrote...

(A) because genetic diversity helping solve dark energy is complete BS and there's no real reason to believe the Reaper's methods are effective. Heck, maybe if the stopped harvesting civilizations every 50,000 years, one would actually stand a chance to become advanced enough to do something about it. Their plan is dumb, they are dumb, and sacrificing billions to help them is dumb.

Let's say the Reapers are right (no matter how dumb their plan was), what would be your justification for risking the entire galaxy? "No, no, the reaper has to be wrong" That's your justification?

[Zeju]

askanec wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...

(A) because genetic diversity helping solve dark energy is complete BS and there's no real reason to believe the Reaper's methods are effective. Heck, maybe if the stopped harvesting civilizations every 50,000 years, one would actually stand a chance to become advanced enough to do something about it. Their plan is dumb, they are dumb, and sacrificing billions to help them is dumb.

Let's say the Reapers are right (no matter how dumb their plan was), what would be your justification for risking the entire galaxy? "No, no, the reaper has to be wrong" That's your justification?

A thousand people like Mordin, put their heads together. Humans, Salarians, Asari, Turians, your telling me a united galaxy couldnt solve the Dark Energy threat? It's alot easier when there arnt 300 Soverign-class reapers raping your planet.

[ReachEtaruN74]

marshalleck wrote...

That dark energy ending is pretty awful, lol.

Can't say I'm thrilled with ME3's ending, though I liked the 'synthesis' option. Still--genetic diversity saving the galaxy from dark energy? What? That grass isn't greener, folks.

I think that to say that genetic diversity being directly responsible for "saving the galaxy" would not make sense. I would theorize that the reapers saw the genetic diverisity as a unique feature-a wild card-that could potentially play a role in saving the galaxy. You have to see the Reapers as desperate to save the galaxy. This would mean that they would grab any strand of hope possible.

[Malachite73]

Look, even if you don't agree with the dark energy ending, there are two things that can be agreed upon:

First, the dark energy ending was the original ending, and the current one was dropped on us out of blue. If the series had at least hinted at the current ME3 ending it wouldn't be so bad... but as is, the current ending comes out of nowhere, and leave the universe with nothing more to be explored.

Second, I think the dark energy ending would have had fewer people complaining about the ending.

Besides, the current endings leave no room for the Mass Effect universe to continue... at least the dark energy ending leaves room for more future content if they wanted it.

[Spectre_Shepard]

i miss drew karpyshyn. that plot sounds awesome.

and I believe it too. I really thought the whole Haestrom thing with Tali would come up again.

It didn't. should have, but didn't.

[marshalleck]

Reapers wanting humans for our supposed genetic diversity is a plot thread best left dead.

[Salty Specula]

 I've read the dark energy original idea... That... I don't even...

It makes even LESS sense than the atrocious ending in game now. By converting species into Reapers, it stops dark energy buildup... How? I'm apparently not intelligent enough to fill in the massive leap in logic between those two points.

[ReachEtaruN74]

Salty Specula wrote...

 I've read the dark energy original idea... That... I don't even...

It makes even LESS sense than the atrocious ending in game now. By converting species into Reapers, it stops dark energy buildup... How? I'm apparently not intelligent enough to fill in the massive leap in logic between those two points.

Well it is never said that every species gets a Reaper. As I understand Drew's original ending, the Reapers are trying to save the universe from Dark Energy. As to how? This contributes to the Reapers's unknowability because we don't understand it and likely couldn't because we haven't even hardly touched the research (with the exception of the geth/quarians).

EDIT: Also, its isn't said that making species into Reapers *is* the cure. I think it is merely hinted that it is a means to furthering a cure--like recruiting more scientists to a study.

Modifié par ReachEtaruN74, 10 mars 2012 - 05:38 .

[Thalorin1919]

I'm sorry, but that ending doesn't make any sense. A lot of you are jumping the bandwagon just to say it's a good ending because it fits with your personalized idea of seeing events go your away such as everyone living happily ever after and all that.

The Reapers have been reaping for 37 billion years at least according to the age of that dead one in ME2 where we get the IFF. Don't you the dark energy problem would of had accumulated to something by now, solved or not? I'm not a space expert but 37 billion years of a buildup to a dark energy problem - one that is evolving slowly, but something that has worried the Reapers somehow for that long - is not really that logical.

Plus, that is sort of a cop out making the Reapers all of the sudden the good guys trying to save the universe when they are murdering civilizations over and over without choice or explanation and instead insisting how much more powerful they are - the way the Reapers act implicate that they are not trying to save the universe, but more so another purpose.

The current ending now is better. People don't like it because they say it doesn't fit. Why not? Often the biggest mysterys in series are not revealed until the end, there is no reason for you to know everything up to that point. I think the issue of organics and synthetics has always been prominent since the beginning and has build up to this point.

Either way, the endings could of had been expanded on in some ways where they could be plausible. In my opinion I sort of wished that we never knew the origins and the motivations of the Reapers...that's what made them so terrifying.

Modifié par Thalorin1919, 10 mars 2012 - 05:40 .