397 réponses à ce sujet

[Dae0]

Ultra Prism wrote...

we spent money to enjoy and prosper ... not to get depressed by a video game

I agree, but apparaently some enjoy rather dark & depressing, cookie cutter endings. If only there was some middle ground that could be had...like having both maybe?...

[ReachEtaruN74]

Kmead15 wrote...

Malachite73 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Refara wrote...

Wow, the dark energy plot makes MUCH more sense.

Really? If they went with that ending then there would be a mountain of complaint threads about how "Humans are Speshul" in Mass Effect

Sure, but I think there would be a lot less complaints about the ending though.

Are you kidding? There's be no closure in that ending either, because you wouldn't be allowed to know if the Dark Energy crisis was solveable. If they tell us anything, then it makes the choice a simple right and wrong answer.

But see! That's what makes it amazing though. People who only want the happy ending get it. They get the romance under the sunset and flying birds. But the true RPGers get a feeling of satisfaction at the resolution of the problem at hand while realizing that there are bigger problems that will need solving. Thus, the franchise continues.
Versus now: everything blows up. The end. Every character, every plot, and every species is meaningless because of the ending. And on top of that, there's still no resolve. So, no happy ending, no satisfaction, and no possible continuation.
Also... seriously. The current ending doesn't fit the lore...

[Malachite73]

@Dae0... I think Reach just explained what I was thinking. You would get your happy ending with Shepard living out his days with his LI, but at the same time, die hard fans would get the sense that the universe could be continued.

[Pandaman102]

The arguments of which "unfathomable" Reaper motivation is better aside, neither of these endings really sound like they would have taken the player's Paragon/Renegade score and choices in ME1/ME2 into consideration. It would have still been an arbitrary decision made in the last five minutes of the game.

It is a shame that all of the foreshadowing of dark energy in ME2 went out the window though, especially given how much speculation about it was going on the boards after people finished ME2. Not advocating the dark energy ending, simply stating it should have been incorporated somehow.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 10 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[drak4806.2]

This concept is amazing if they had done this ME3 would have been the best game ever. I admit I don't like the whole human are special thing going on but this is way better then the BS endings we got by far.

[ReachEtaruN74]

Pandaman102 wrote...

The arguments of which "unfathomable" Reaper motivation is better aside, neither of these endings really sound like they would have taken the player's Paragon/Renegade score and choices in ME1/ME2 into consideration. It would have still been an arbitrary decision made in the last five minutes of the game.

It is a shame that all of the foreshadowing of dark energy in ME2 went out the window though, especially given how much speculation about it was going on the boards after people finished ME2. Not advocating the dark energy ending, simply stating it should have been incorporated somehow.

Yes i agree partially. However, choosing to let the reapers continue is still most assuredly the renegade option as it represents the "get's the job done--no matter what the cost" as the reapers are striving to solve the problem but through repreated mass genocide as a means to continue the time that they had to solve the problem. But at the same time, the alternative isn't really a true paragon option as it throws away any work the reapers had accomplished. I think it would boil down to a "lesser of two evils" situation.

[inforsir]

 i feel like i got cheated with these ending

 wanted to see my shepard live on with Liara

Modifié par inforsir, 10 mars 2012 - 06:41 .

[Hexxys]

Bioware could've left the reaper's motivation more ambiguous. The reapers kept claiming that their reasoning is beyond human comprehension, but when Bioware's human writers tried to create an ending for something that should be incomprehensible... Well, the result is something that is not difficult to understand xD It takes a lot away from the reapers' ominousness.

[Malachite73]

inforsir wrote...

 i feel like i got cheated with these ending

 wanted to see my shepard live on with Liara

And instead she gets stranded on a planet, and walks off the Normandy without a tear shed for the loss of Shepard... thanks BW.

Modifié par Malachite73, 10 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[DarthOdin]

current ending leaves almost no future,for any series to prosper there is always a new enemy or more powerfull one or it will simply end...and the dark energy ending is good cuz after the reapers are gone(or not) it would open another options...

[TheLostGenius]

Malachite73 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

Shepard is a hero, and thankfully a classic one. In classic heroic archetype, the hero usually sacrifices himself.

Great point, and I agree... but it is not Shepard dying that bothers me... its is a random new ending that ceases any ability for the universe to have future stories. 

Besides, it's not an RPG when when you only have one choice: die and blow up the relays.

Isn't technological retrogression preferable to submission or exctinction? 

Since ME1 I always thought that they would stop the reapers by somehow channeling the Relay's through the Citadel and using it as a super weapon. Seemed obvious enough given how "mysterious" the citadel is. So the plot overall was too much satisifaction meeting and exceeding my expectation. The landing of the Normandy in the ending that I got is a mystery too, and thats one of the great things about this game, is for all the secrets and mysteries revealed, it leaves you with new ones.

Who cares about closure? Plus i thought the Liara romance was handled well and i liked her importance throughout the entire series.

[Malachite73]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Malachite73 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

Shepard is a hero, and thankfully a classic one. In classic heroic archetype, the hero usually sacrifices himself.

Great point, and I agree... but it is not Shepard dying that bothers me... its is a random new ending that ceases any ability for the universe to have future stories. 

Besides, it's not an RPG when when you only have one choice: die and blow up the relays.

Isn't technological retrogression preferable to submission or exctinction? 

Since ME1 I always thought that they would stop the reapers by somehow channeling the Relay's through the Citadel and using it as a super weapon. Seemed obvious enough given how "mysterious" the citadel is. So the plot overall was too much satisifaction meeting and exceeding my expectation. The landing of the Normandy in the ending that I got is a mystery too, and thats one of the great things about this game, is for all the secrets and mysteries revealed, it leaves you with new ones.

Who cares about closure? Plus i thought the Liara romance was handled well and i liked her importance throughout the entire series.

I agreed, it was a total mystery how Ashley
was in my group when we charge Harbinger, then appeared on a Normandy
that was supposed to be over earth fighting the Reapers.

[MentalKase]

I think there needs to be a fourth option. Tell the catalyst to send the Reapers back to dark space and wait 50,000 years and revaluate if his previous beliefs still hold true.

I need a happy ending for Shepard.

[TheLostGenius]

Just because it cuts instantly to the shot, doesn't mean time elapsed. Do you need a "4 hours later" text on the screen? You realize the game doesn't happen in real time. I'm not debating, but you are just splitting hairs.

[Kmead15]

ReachEtaruN74 wrote...

But see! That's what makes it amazing though. People who only want the happy ending get it. They get the romance under the sunset and flying birds. But the true RPGers get a feeling of satisfaction at the resolution of the problem at hand while realizing that there are bigger problems that will need solving. Thus, the franchise continues.
Versus now: everything blows up. The end. Every character, every plot, and every species is meaningless because of the ending. And on top of that, there's still no resolve. So, no happy ending, no satisfaction, and no possible continuation.
Also... seriously. The current ending doesn't fit the lore...

But you aren't resolving the problem at hand. You're making a choice that might possibly maybe have the potential to increase our odds at resolve it. It'd be like claiming the Collector Base choice was a satisfying conclusion to the Reaper invasion.

Malachite73 wrote...

inforsir wrote...

 i feel like i got cheated with these ending

 wanted to see my shepard live on with Liara

And instead she gets stranded on a planet, and walks off the Normandy without a tear shed for the loss of Shepard... thanks BW.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Having walked out of a bad wreck, I don't blame her if her first thoughts weren't about a lover that wasn't in the crash. Besides, even if she is hitting on all cylinders, she may not know yet that the relays are down or that Shepard may be dead.

[Malachite73]

TheLostGenius wrote...

Just because it cuts instantly to the shot, doesn't mean time elapsed. Do you need a "4 hours later" text on the screen? You realize the game doesn't happen in real time. I'm not debating, but you are just splitting hairs.

But the cidatel blows up after your conversation with the catalyst and shoots the beam at the relay... so how is that not real time?

[NoUserNameHere]

2 cents coming up:
The old Dark Energy ending seems to be better foreshadowed in ME2, parts of ME1, and even ME3.

-- It explains the Reaper lifecycle. 'Storing the advanced civilizations in Reaper bodies' just works better when you're using those civilizations combined brainpower to compute something.

-- You could still have the three endings we got -- more or less -- Destroy, Control (TIMs plan, human domination), with 'Merge' being the creation of that human reaper.

-- Relays can still break/get shut down in the destroy ending. It's a sacrifice you might just have to make. Still, seems like the explanation would be more tactful here.

I'd be interested to see what decisions led to the switch in the ol' Bioware's writing lounge.

[CrimsonNephilim]

Wait, I'm confused. If Mass Effects storyline was already pre-planned where Dark Matter was the primary concern, why the heck did they OK a change to make it into this technological singularity stuff? ME3 just pretty much threw everything that happened in ME2 out the window.

[phrizek]

This would have been a much, much better ending than what we got. What a shame.

[macroberts]

I had managed to avoid all spoilers of the ending, so I managed to get a first hand impression on it, and I'd like to make a few points.

The ending itself, in terms of the plot and the content, wasn't a problem per se. If it was fleshed out a bit more during the game, and during the final cutscenes, it would have been a great ending. The plot itself actually dealt with very interesting ideas and points, like are synthetics inherently rebellious and can they co-exist with organics, or even just the relationship between masters/those higher up the food chain to servants/slaves (Prothean goes into that a bit, if you have him). As it is, it's only a decent ending, and certainly fell short of expectations.

But the real problem isn't that the ending was too sad or made no sense (and honestly, an ending was too sad? Crap's hitting the fan in the galaxy, it's not gonna be pretty and rainbows. This isn't a cause for complaint =P). As mentioned by other posters before, it is the execution of the ending that was the real let down for me. If you've studied Shakespearean and Greek tragedies, the stories always put the hero through trials and sacrifices, and culminates in a final release of emotion for the audience at the conclusion of the play. In plays like Hamlet and Othello, we travel with the tragic hero, understand his motivations, build up a connection with him emotionally, and at the end, this is all released. Explodes, even.

The problem is, this doesn't happen in ME3 (at least, not for me). The audience (in this case, the gamer) doesn't get a cathartic moment. He or she doesn't get that release of emotion which has been building up from somewhere around ME2. You invest in the characters in ME1 and 2, and you watch some die along the way. And in ME3, you watch some make incredible sacrifices for you, the hero, to get to the end. I will never ever forget Thane's final fight and death to my last breath; that scene alone brought home to the gamer what this was all about, and that you better get to the end and get this crap done. Throughout the game, you FEEL it when those around you that you cared about, like Legion, like Mordin, like Thane, fall down in sacrifices for YOUR cause. I teared up every time one of them fell. But all this emotion is built up to the final moments where...... well, what happens, exactly? There's no release of emotion, either sadness or happiness. It just kinda...... ends.

The game itself was utterly fantastic. The fights were insane, the plot moved quite well, and at all times I felt the urgency and the desperate nature of the situation. But I wanted a cathartic moment at the end. I didn't care if it was happy or sad, and quite frankly, having built up my sad emotions at every stage of the game, an extremely bittersweet ending wouldn't have been bad at all. In fact, I'd probably welcome it. I just wanted that release.

Man, that was long. I guess this is my 2 cents worth.

TL;DR --> The problem with the ending wasn't that it was too sad, or too what the hut. It was the fact that at the end, we the player did not receive that cathartic moment we all so craved.

[Malachite73]

macroberts wrote...

I had managed to avoid all spoilers of the ending, so I managed to get a first hand impression on it, and I'd like to make a few points.

The ending itself, in terms of the plot and the content, wasn't a problem per se. If it was fleshed out a bit more during the game, and during the final cutscenes, it would have been a great ending. The plot itself actually dealt with very interesting ideas and points, like are synthetics inherently rebellious and can they co-exist with organics, or even just the relationship between masters/those higher up the food chain to servants/slaves (Prothean goes into that a bit, if you have him). As it is, it's only a decent ending, and certainly fell short of expectations.

But the real problem isn't that the ending was too sad or made no sense (and honestly, an ending was too sad? Crap's hitting the fan in the galaxy, it's not gonna be pretty and rainbows. This isn't a cause for complaint =P). As mentioned by other posters before, it is the execution of the ending that was the real let down for me. If you've studied Shakespearean and Greek tragedies, the stories always put the hero through trials and sacrifices, and culminates in a final release of emotion for the audience at the conclusion of the play. In plays like Hamlet and Othello, we travel with the tragic hero, understand his motivations, build up a connection with him emotionally, and at the end, this is all released. Explodes, even.

The problem is, this doesn't happen in ME3 (at least, not for me). The audience (in this case, the gamer) doesn't get a cathartic moment. He or she doesn't get that release of emotion which has been building up from somewhere around ME2. You invest in the characters in ME1 and 2, and you watch some die along the way. And in ME3, you watch some make incredible sacrifices for you, the hero, to get to the end. I will never ever forget Thane's final fight and death to my last breath; that scene alone brought home to the gamer what this was all about, and that you better get to the end and get this crap done. Throughout the game, you FEEL it when those around you that you cared about, like Legion, like Mordin, like Thane, fall down in sacrifices for YOUR cause. I teared up every time one of them fell. But all this emotion is built up to the final moments where...... well, what happens, exactly? There's no release of emotion, either sadness or happiness. It just kinda...... ends.

The game itself was utterly fantastic. The fights were insane, the plot moved quite well, and at all times I felt the urgency and the desperate nature of the situation. But I wanted a cathartic moment at the end. I didn't care if it was happy or sad, and quite frankly, having built up my sad emotions at every stage of the game, an extremely bittersweet ending wouldn't have been bad at all. In fact, I'd probably welcome it. I just wanted that release.

Man, that was long. I guess this is my 2 cents worth.

TL;DR --> The problem with the ending wasn't that it was too sad, or too what the hut. It was the fact that at the end, we the player did not receive that cathartic moment we all so craved.

Good point... I love a good tragedy, and wouldn't have minded it in Mass Effect, it was the way it was handled.

[BDP93]

Just finished ME3. I honestly hate the endings given.
>Destroy the reapers and lose the mass relays. And then die.
>Take control of the reapers and lose the mass relays. And then die.
>Make every synthetic and organic half and half, leading to peace, then the relays break. But this time you die before that happens.

For all the rough politics, all the amazing characters, the decisive battles, the realistic cultures made, the romances you become intertwined with, you get generic ****ty endings that don't let you live out your choices like the Mass Effect series was supposedly made for. I loved all three games straight until the end. I really kinda hate how much time I've poured into the Mass Effect series over the years knowing that this is the unfufilling outcome. The endings just don't let you enjoy what you've created.

Modifié par BDP93, 10 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[pomrink]

I agree with OP.  Bring it back.

Edit: Someone make a poll asking for this.

Modifié par pomrink, 10 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[Ieldra]

Malachite73 wrote...
Amen... why would they throw out Drew Karpyshyn's ending. The Dark Energy idea is brilliant.

No it isn't.It has just as many plot holes as the synthetic/organic plot. The choice we make at the end of ME3 actually isn't bad, there should've just been an additional choice:

If you rewrite the geth, encourage Joker/EDI, and make peace between the geth and the quarians, you can prove to the Catalyst that the reasoning for the cycle was wrong. The Catalyst then makes all Reapers fly into the black hole at the centre of the galaxy before destroying itself. Shepard survives the explosion if you have 4000+ EMC.   

[Cirreus]

This is exactly what the brain trust at Bioware is doing right now (besides hoping this will blow over & not effect any sales numbers right now).

1st. They are looking into adjusting the Galaxy at War rating system (basicly adjusting EMS) so the  magical 5000 rating can be reached easier (without doing multiplayer). This would allow all possible flavors of the rainbow ending to be open to a wider audience.

2nd. The bug teams (who have there work cut out for them) are being tasked to adjust any in-game ending variables available to placate the masses. Meaning, do something as cheap & fast as possible to shut everyone up.

3rd. Having useless meetings with EA's marketing on how this will effect all the Prequel-DLC they've already spent money on.

Here's the sad truth. As much as I want the original themed endings. Bioware is going to do a little (meaning as cheap as possible) to fix any story issues. They are going to make the guys fixing the bugs do over time (because it's not in the budget to fix something not broke ... har har), which means even more sub par work.

The problem with ME3's ending isn't the last chapter (from the Illusive Man's base). It's from the start of the game. It would cost millions to fix just some of the plot holes alone. ME3 invested too much of itself trying to tie in canon from the books (which most of it's core fans likely didn't read). It would be like if Bungie assumed (from a marketing point of view) that everyone read "Fall of Reach", but marketed Halo: Reach as Halo 4: Save the Day. Fans would be pissed when they found out it's more like movie 300 than Iron Man.

Thank you badly written tie-in novels for sh*tting in my cereal.