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#1
deathscythe517

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Something from TVTropes caught my eye when I visited recently so I'd like to share it to you, since I'm a bit of a nub on BBCode here it is as follows:

BEGINNING OF QUOTE

So named to avoid accidental spoilers, since this folder should be
titled "The Catalyst," mainly because this thing is one huge head
scratcher by itself. We won't go into the Ass Pull vibe this entire ending gives off since that's subjective, so lets just simplify this to its most basic elements.
  • First, where did this thing come from? Mass Effect is known for
    having a game changing plot twist about halfway through the game, but
    this guy shows up right at the end, and we're just expected to accept
    it. When they revealed the Reapers in ME 1, we could go along with that
    because these guys were Robot Space Old Ones right out of Lovecraft, and
    when you replayed the game it actually subtly built up to that
    unveiling in a way you only notice the second time around. In ME 2 the
    Collectors being genetically modified Protheans also made since because
    it was a possibly Red Herring
    for what galactic civilizations fate at the hands of the Reapers might
    be, and it solved the problem of the Collectors being this new race that
    was never spoken of before; because they were spoken of
    before, we just didn't know they and the Protheans weren't one in the
    same. The Catalyst? Literally comes out of no where with no build up or
    explanation. Some might argue that's the point of a plot twist, but to
    paraphrase a certain internet reviewer: "Yeah but that's like saying Mrs. Brisby was broccoli the whole time. Yeah you didn't see it coming, that doesn't mean it makes sense."
  • Two, who the hell made this thing? The civilization
    of the first cycle? Apparently this thing wants to end war between
    organics and synthetics, but isn't he synthetic himself? Is he the
    natural evolution of the first cycles version of the Geth? This is
    different from the first point because it is clear something had to create this computer program, but who did it and to what end? Is this just an example of the worst kind of A.I. Is a Crapshoot mixed with the most ridiculous Freudian Excuse
    ever? And a side point of this: who the hell made the Reapers? This
    thing doesn't have fingers, so what did it possess some ship abandoned
    ship making factory without anyone noticing, tricked the first organic
    civilization into melting themselves down and letting that power the
    first Reaper? This thing said it created the Reapers, well I'd like to
    know bloody HOW he managed to do that!
  • Three, his motivation makes no sense. We're lead to believe
    every cycle has had its version of the Geth being created and inevitably
    realizing they are superior to their creators, or something along the
    lines of what happened to the Quarians happens and they attack, whatever
    the case: war breaks out. Lets put aside the fact that this thing is,
    by definition, a synthetic itself, so is it just a maverick defector
    from decadence who wants to save organic life from his own kin? I might
    buy that, sure, but it still doesn't make any sense. Lets say the first
    time this happened in the first cycle he considers it a fluke, and just
    puts his Reapers on reserve juuuuust in case. Once bitten, twice shy,
    I'll give him that. Then it happens again and well now he's justified,
    in his mindset, to enact his plan of preserving organic life once more.
    Then we're lead to believe this exact case of organic civilization
    threatening war with synthetics happened OVER SEVEN HUNDRED TIMES!? And THIS was the one time it didn't go the way it always had? THAT is a statistical IMPOSSIBILITY! Writers Cannot Do Math on an unforgivable scale!
  • Four, where did the 700+ synthetic races go? It melts organic
    life down into Reaper goo to preserve them because synthetic life is
    inevitably going to win, or something, ok. So where the hell did the
    synthetic life go? They didn't melt the Prothean's version of Geth down
    into Reaper goo, so where did they all go? Did they just genocide the
    synthetic life as soon as they made the new Reaper and go back to sleep
    waiting for the next 100% assured organic v.s. synthetic life war to
    break out? Doesn't that make this thing a hypocrite? Not saying we wont
    buy the genocidal villain being a hypocrite, but it still seems
    rather... logicless? Anti-logic?.... Stupid, that's the word I'm looking
    for.
  • Five, at what point do they consider organic life a lost cause
    and start the harvesting process? Because if we are supposed to believe
    this is all to preserve organic life because they'll lose against their
    own synthetic creation, then when do they start the invasion? This is
    asked because for this current cycle, that war is with the Geth. So, was
    it as soon as the Geth were made they started their plans for genocidal
    reproduction? (heh, Reaperoduction)
    or did they wait till the war with the Geth vs the Quarians to break
    out, or wait for the Quarians to get kicked off their home planet? Well,
    we know for a fact they didn't wait until the Geth actually started a
    war against all organic life to emerge the superior life forms, because
    the Geth DIDN'T START A WAR AND JUST STAYED IN GETH SPACE AND LEFT
    EVERYONE ALONE! The ONLY antagonist Geth in the series were controlled
    by the Reapers! Oh hello there, giant contradiction: the Reapers invade
    because synthetic life threatens organic life, and yet the only reason
    the Geth threatened organics was because the Reapers were starting their
    invasion. Whaaaaa?
  • Six, Wrong, wrong, wrong!Image IPB
    The Catalyst is WRONG. Synthetic life WASN'T threatening Organic life,
    at least not during this cycle, at least not yet. We saw evidence of
    that in, again, the friggen Geth minding their own damn business unless
    someone screwed with/indoctrinated them, and in EDI being pretty cool
    and nice and stuff to say the least. I'll forgive the fact they jumped
    the gun a little considering they're Well Intentioned Extremists to the max long since gone off the Moral Event Horizon,
    but the fact you can't use this argument against it at the end is just
    dumb. You can't use LOGIC and RATIONAL and PHYSICAL EVIDENCE against an
    emotionless machine? Really? You have no choice but to go along with the
    DeusExMachinas
    BS brigade and presented with the Endingtron 9000 to make a completely
    binary choice to decide the ending of the game that completely rips off Deus Ex: Human Revolution
    and yet somehow manages to be even more disappointing? How the endings
    are pretty weak for various reasons is better detailed in the folder
    above this one, but EVEN if you wanna argue that was the point, that the
    writers wanted this jerk to come off as hopelessly and pointlessly
    wrong and so stuck in its own ways it has completely ignored the fact
    his own stated motivations don't apply anymore, the fact they expect you
    to just go along with it instead of being allowed to call him on it
    is just awful, and makes it come across from a narrative standpoint as
    if we are meant to take everything he says at face value.
END OF QUOTE

Not a very good copypasta but I just wanted to put this up since it seems to bring up every point that we've been griping about in a rather...well colorful form.

#2
deathscythe517

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Oh and no one has answered the"why was the Normandy so far away from Sol" question yet either....shocking.

#3
falloutgod13

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There's so many more immediate concerns about the last 10 minutes then the presumed plot holes. Like the lack of real choices and how inconsequential your decisions throughout the game, and previous games, become. You have to remember the game is dynamic and not everyone plays it the same way. So the story unfolds differently each play through, you can't mix and match the experiences because then you mold different perspectives. Which is why the endings are such garbage, not only dot hey not fit anything worth a damn. The whole of it makes little to no sense, presumed plot holes or not, it simply doesn't cut it.

But if you really wanna get deep into it. What kind of higher lifeforms or AI's solution to a problem is cyclic genocide? Seriously, if genocide is your best solution you're not all that superior. In fact, the only fitting thing about the end is that it takes the form of a child. I find it's reasoning and solution to be very childish indeed.

The OP asks a lot of interesting questions and presents some interesting perspectives on the ending/endings. While I just can't get over how much the end/endings sucked.

#4
NoUserNameHere

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deathscythe517 wrote...

Oh and no one has answered the"why was the Normandy so far away from Sol" question yet either....shocking.


You cannot answer that which was never explained.

#5
deathscythe517

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Indeed, the Catalyst is a bigger bad...but its logic is one hundred percent faulty and unlike the vastly more intelligent antagonists (Saren, Sovereign, TIM) you CAN'T call him on his bull. That is what makes me so angry! On top of the 'it was a story' thing as I pointed out before who tells a story about a potentially psychotic commander who has sex with and potentially cheats on three people? Who can be anything from aliens to other men! And I just found out from a poster who analyzed 'Stargazer' that the 'child' is just a shrunken down adult male model...which is even more lazy than the Tali photograph.

#6
WeAreLegionWTF

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OP is right on all counts. It feels as though an entirely different group of writers stepped in to just bang out the last 15minutes of the game without even a thought to the existential choices and lore given up to that point ... And i think tvtropes just became a new fav site of mine,

#7
Makatak

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And not to mention my femshep's bio clock must've been ticking, because every specter (syn: ghost) and dream it mentions her having, she's got the same looking kid, who I swear she saw die on Earth, but apparently he's the key to the universe too. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm surprised no one's called out Bioware on the Catalyst wearing a hoodie.

#8
droq1352

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deathscythe517 wrote...

Indeed, the Catalyst is a bigger bad...but its logic is one hundred percent faulty and unlike the vastly more intelligent antagonists (Saren, Sovereign, TIM) you CAN'T call him on his bull.


it's funny you say that because after the catalyst explained everything, i actually spent about a solid minute clicking on him/around him to try and talk to him and ask him questions and such...

#9
falloutgod13

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I spent five minutes shooting through his head :D before selecting another awful ending.

#10
Harbinger of Hope

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A really good read. It (like so many people here) hit the nail on the head. But, what really pisses me off, is the fact I can't just call him on his BS. "I'm a synthetic who kills most organic life to protect them from synthetics who will try and kill all organics"

#11
naphthol

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if the ending to 2001 has demonstrated anything, it's that if you try to attach meaning to nonsense for long enough, you will succeed.

er, I mean mass effect.