17 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

What was the point of Sovereign and the Keepers?

Namely, why couldn't the Citadel just activate itself as a relay instead of have Sovy do a ton of risky work for it? Why does the Citadel need to second-hand activate itself via the Keepers and Sovy?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 10 mars 2012 - 10:50 .

[Evil_medved]

Well its... Um, its just eh... Its simple, because its uh, well, yeah.

...SHUT UP ENDING DOES NOT SUCK!111

[thoaloa]

The Citadel was busy.

[Lyrandori]

Taking a 50,000 years nap I guess.

[deathscythe517]

It was in the middle of some calibrations?

[Sweawm]

Real inconsistency there... if the Catalyst was resident on the Citadel... why didn't he open the Relay for his Reapers? Why send Sovereign? Giant gap there...

Most likely because the ending of Mass Effect 3 was caused by Harbinger controlling Shepard... Think about it: there are tons of times where Shepard could of easily been one of those sleeper agents who thinks their acting on their own will.

Shepard could of gunned down a battalion of Alliance troops on Mars, not Cerberus soldiers (Which are also never explained either how the Illusive Man gathered such an army asides from that one bit on Sanctuary) and then 'taken' the Crucible data to the Alliance which played straight into Reaper hands....

Can't you see? Shepard is really simply a sleeper agent of the Reapers.

[Nineteen]

The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

[Ebannaw1]

Nineteen wrote...

The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This ^^

[Holoe4]

deathscythe517 wrote...

It was in the middle of some calibrations?

[TryckSh0t]

Or, the Catalyst we saw wasn't really the Catalyst. It just happens to look exactly like the child Shepard failed to save? I don't buy it. The only people who could possibly know exactly what that kid looked like were Shepard, and possibly Javik and Liara (could've gleaned it from "mind melding").

Also, if the wearer of the N7 armor is Shepard, and Shepard was breathing in that last cut scene, he couldn't have been on the Citadel when it went up. The Citadel was in space, out of atmosphere, in vacuum. So what was he breathing? Only possible conclusion is that he wasn't on the Citadel, but was still on Earth. Only way he could've still been on Earth is if the Citadel events didn't actually occur.

[Craven1138]

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Nineteen wrote...
The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This ^^

... is so naive, that it's breaking my heart. It's a huge plot hole.

[Ebannaw1]

Craven1138 wrote...

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Nineteen wrote...
The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This ^^

... is so naive, that it's breaking my heart. It's a huge plot hole.

Indeed, but it's the most logical solution out of the mess.

[galaxy366]

TryckSh0t wrote...

Or, the Catalyst we saw wasn't really the Catalyst. It just happens to look exactly like the child Shepard failed to save? I don't buy it. The only people who could possibly know exactly what that kid looked like were Shepard, and possibly Javik and Liara (could've gleaned it from "mind melding").

Also, if the wearer of the N7 armor is Shepard, and Shepard was breathing in that last cut scene, he couldn't have been on the Citadel when it went up. The Citadel was in space, out of atmosphere, in vacuum. So what was he breathing? Only possible conclusion is that he wasn't on the Citadel, but was still on Earth. Only way he could've still been on Earth is if the Citadel events didn't actually occur.

You might be right, the place where Shepard got hit by Harbinger was made of concrete, But it still doesn't fit. When you listining to the background you hear metal creek and other sounds. that can't be Earth. Because in my way it sounded more of the Citadel.

[HKR148]

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Craven1138 wrote...

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Nineteen wrote...
The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This ^^

... is so naive, that it's breaking my heart. It's a huge plot hole.

Indeed, but it's the most logical solution out of the mess.

Matters absolutely nothing when no sense of clarification was being given. Nothing more than our repeated attempts to rationalize the giant pile of.. [s] we've witnessed.

[United_Strafes]

It was playing with that toy fighter, duh.

[Kandon Arc]

Nineteen wrote...

The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This is the best solution from the available facts, but has the big plot hole of why the system would be set up like this. Why would the creators of the Reapers trust the keepers to do the vital task of opening the Citadel relay, when the Citadel had an inbuilt consciousness that could easily accomplish the task?

[Superninfreak]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Nineteen wrote...

The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This is the best solution from the available facts, but has the big plot hole of why the system would be set up like this. Why would the creators of the Reapers trust the keepers to do the vital task of opening the Citadel relay, when the Citadel had an inbuilt consciousness that could easily accomplish the task?

Because Space Magic prevented them from doing that.

[Turtlicious]

HKR148 wrote...

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Craven1138 wrote...

Ebannaw1 wrote...

Nineteen wrote...
The Catalyst is only "woken up" when the Crucible is attached? The Catalyst says the Reapers do what it says, but that could mean that the Catalyst isn't directly controlling them, and that the Reapers are just doing what the Catalyst told them in the beginning.

This ^^

... is so naive, that it's breaking my heart. It's a huge plot hole.

Indeed, but it's the most logical solution out of the mess.

Matters absolutely nothing when no sense of clarification was being given. Nothing more than our repeated attempts to rationalize the giant pile of.. [s] we've witnessed.

Parts 1-12 by kyleh619

1. The endgame scenario is
Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force
you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during
the final sceens!

2. Choosing to control the Reapers allows them to live. Reapers win. They will still exist.

3. Choosing to combine organic and synthetic life: Reapers win. They will still exist.

4. Choosing to destroy all synthetic life: Reapers loose. Shepard lives. Reapers die.

5.
Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in
appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The
Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's
choice should not be Renegade.

6. Shepard awakes at the end of
destroying Reapers. But Shepard is not awaking from the aftermath. He is
awaking from either after he is hit by Harbingers lazer attack on Earth
or after the scene with Anderson and the Illusive Man.

7.
Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause;
destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice
exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound
better.

8. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings"
because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the
Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

9. Never trust any child construct, be it a ghost or artificial intelligence, or heck even human. They are just creepy.

10. Shepard awakes at the end because he has broken hold of the Reaper's control.

11.
Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various
Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact
from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of
indoctrination.

12.
Bioware not only get more $$$ for DLC for the final battle, but big
props for INDOCTRINATING A LOT OF ITS OWN PLAYERS! I do not know of
another gaming company that has tried to fool all of its consumers, but
they look to be the first and reap all of the attention.

13. Look
at these screenshots. I believe the 1m1 is a clue, because of how often
it shows up, and how human it is, when the ship is supposedly older
then the ancients.

14. Definitions:


Catalyst =
1. Chemistry A substance, usually used in small amounts relative to the reactants, that modifies and
increases the rate of a reaction without being consumed in the process.
2. One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences


Crucible=
1. A vessel made of a refractory substance such as graphite or porcelain, used for melting and calcining materials
at high temperatures.
2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial. See Synonyms at trial.
3. A place, time, or situation characterized by the confluence of powerful intellectual, social, economic, or political
forces:

15. Shepard is not wearing his armor when he wakes up in the Citadel, implying that this is a dream.


Kitten Tactics:

-The
endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers
(Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live.
Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing
Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper
code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing
to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence.
Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive
Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice
should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the
worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to
fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give
you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion.
This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are
ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because
the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2
"endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to
allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does
not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but
Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson
calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking
to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been
"snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after
being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when
Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they
realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During
Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the
radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the
reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard
has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper
artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The
Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of
indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.