32 réponses à ce sujet

[zr0iq]

Let us use this thread to summarize conceptual mistakes in the writing in this thread to summarize and discuss aparent errors in the writing.

Thessia
> Asari used an Prothean VI to advance.
They do not prepare for the Reapers.

The Crucible
> Reapers move the Citadel.
Reapers do not close the Mass Relays, like Soverign did in ME1.
> Catalyst is controller of the cycle.
Did not open the Citadel relay in Mass Effect 1. Uses keepers instead.
> The big ray that destroys the Mass Effect relays is fired on a straight line along the axis on a Mass Relay.
Shepard does not change the angle of the Citadel.

Endings
> Normandy battles above earth.
Crashes on foreign planet.

Got anything more to add? Tell me. I'll add this to this list. Anything that does not seem right that is in the list? Discuss and I might remove it.
I did not see any conceptual mistakes before Thessia, but I might be wrong.

Modifié par zr0iq, 14 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[deathscythe517]

The Catalyst did not simply use the Citadel to bring the Reapers in.

You cannot point out the logical fallacies in the Catalyst's argument.

The Catalyst is apparently omnipotent and with the most expensive plot armor money can buy because he makes Shepard go completely against cahracter since many people believe Shepard would destroy the damned thing with a logical paradox (paragon) or destroy the controls (renegade) and make the Reapers go into disarray either way.

[Sir MOI]

Why didn't the reapers simply blow the crucible? I mean they are so powerfull they just need to aim at it with their big red LAZOR.

[XinRaine]

Citadel
>Child is Citadel, did not open relay in ME1. (Major one, was pointed out many times on this board already. Still funny.)

[AlexMBrennan]

Indeed

[TryckSh0t]

Thessia - Asari used an Prothean VI to advance.
They do not prepare for the Reapers.

-Considering the Asari were only marginally more advanced than the other races, and, to my knowledge, there were only 3 people in the Galaxy that could fully understand the information in the beacons (Shepard, TIM, and the late Saren), it is likely the Asari were only able to gleen a miniscule amount of information from the Prothean VI, and without complete understanding were not aware of the Reaper threat. Had the Asari been able to fully understand everything within the Beacon / VI, they would have been nearly as advanced as the Protheans, but they weren't even close.

[DS_Abe]

Question - if the Space God Child responsible for the Reapers was the Citadel... why wouldn't it be easier to just destroy the Citadel?

Just send some nukes to it, boom at strategic points, and the Space Child gets sent to the Sun, to burn forever.

Confused Reapers look at each other, embarrassed, and fly away.

[moteh]

Here's a fun one (and if I have this totally wrong please let me know as when it comes to the ending of ME3 it's so very confusing):

ME1: The reapers use the Citadel as a gateway into the heart of the galactic community. The Citadel requires someone on the inside (either Keepers as with previous cycles (I assume) or Saren) to get it all ready for the Reaper arrival.

ME2: The Reapers are out in dark space at the end on their way since the Citadel route is out of the question.

ME3: The final piece for the Crucible was called the Catalyst, the Reaper's master AI that was revealed to be the Citadel, which the Crucible attached to. So the question boils down to, if the
catalyst is an AI, oversees/maintains the cycle, why the heck was Saren or the Keepers needed in the first place?

Still, love the first 99.5% of ME3, the ending is terrible imho, but damn they made an amazing game outside of it.

EDIT: Damn I got beaten bad, I took too long to write this post.

Modifié par moteh, 10 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[Lyrandori]

moteh wrote...

Here's a fun one (and if I have this totally wrong please let me know as when it comes to the ending of ME3 it's so very confusing):

ME1: The reapers use the Citadel as a gateway into the heart of the galactic community. The Citadel requires someone on the inside (either Keepers as with previous cycles (I assume) or Saren) to get it all ready for the Reaper arrival.

ME2: The Reapers are out in dark space at the end on their way since the Citadel route is out of the question.

ME3: The final piece for the Crucible was called the Catalyst, the Reaper's master AI that was revealed to be the Citadel, which the Crucible attached to. So the question boils down to, if the
catalyst is an AI, oversees/maintains the cycle, why the heck was Saren or the Keepers needed in the first place?

Still, love the first 99.5% of ME3, the ending is terrible imho, but damn they made an amazing game outside of it.

EDIT: Damn I got beaten bad, I took too long to write this post.

1) Explained by Vigil in ME1, someone is needed to activate the Citadel (as per ME1's lore only, excluding anything coming from ME2 or ME3, let's think as if only ME1 was released, it's the best way to understand it) because during the previous cycle a group of surviving Protheans created the conduit to enter the Citadel to modify the Keepers. They did it so that the Keepers themselves would not "respond" to a signal that is normally sent by the Reapers fleet from dark space for them (the Keepers on the Citadel) to open the Citadel for their arrival.

Since the awareness of the signal was removed from the Keepers then Saren was used as a pion by Sovereign to gather forces and resources, so that when the time comes Sovereign would be able to enter the Citadel's "interior" thanks to Saren opening the arms from the control panel, and later on activating the Citadel for the arrival of the Reapers fleet. So that's why someone was needed to do it in ME1.

2) Explained (ninja'ed lore info) in the Codex (in ME3's Codex that is) that the Reapers can still travel super mega fast, faster than FTL speeds, something along the lines of many light years in a matter of a day, or something like that (I'd have to check, but I can't find the force to even just launch the game anymore). Just go take a look you might have that entry by now in your game.

3) Agreed.

[elferin91]

w/o drew bioware is lost xD

[zr0iq]

TryckSh0t wrote...

Thessia - Asari used an Prothean VI to advance.
They do not prepare for the Reapers.

-Considering the Asari were only marginally more advanced than the other races, and, to my knowledge, there were only 3 people in the Galaxy that could fully understand the information in the beacons (Shepard, TIM, and the late Saren), it is likely the Asari were only able to gleen a miniscule amount of information from the Prothean VI, and without complete understanding were not aware of the Reaper threat. Had the Asari been able to fully understand everything within the Beacon / VI, they would have been nearly as advanced as the Protheans, but they weren't even close.

They aparently had hundred of years, more than hundred of years, and they did not even try decoding this information. They had the longest time from all species. Even the humans on earth were still trying to decode what they had on Mars.
Also the Prothean VI speaks perfect english. The asari, who do so too could have understood it.

Modifié par zr0iq, 10 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[revo76]

>Beam

We started to running to the beam with 2 teammates, after the end i saw my teammates (the ones with me during the run) in normandy. This means Normandy picked them when we lost our conciseness and it didnt pick us up ? Hmm.

>Anderson

Same thing, we were looking beam with him, then started to running, reached the beam then suddenly Anderson appeared in Citadel.

> Destroyers

We need Quarian fleet to destroy them, but in London 1 Cain shot for one of them, and 2 missiles for other did the job. (Maybe they're Chinese made, no offense)

>The Finale

The place where Shepard talked with Child, it was open environment, this means no oxygen. If there's no oxygen how did we make the conversion?

>Control Panel

Citadel main hub, it was in the same place where council makes speeches (check ME1)

>Choices

According to child, if we select to destroy reapers, we'll lose Relays as well, but in 3 choices we're losing them anyway. So the choice we made, it's useless technically.

From three choices the best was destroying the Reapers, with a small IQ, this choice could be the best and most comprehensible finale for ME3. 

Instead of child, i was waiting to see Virmire MIA. More logic. 

Modifié par revo76, 10 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[Xsorovos]

Oh there are all kinds of holes in the story, we'll ignore the obvious ones, like wtf happened to the Normandy, and how did my team-mates get there..

and go with..

How in the **** did the Citidal get to Earth to begin with.. I'm going to assume, someone had to notice it moving, and more important.... Who allowed it to move? I mean.. if it stands to reason they need an organic to open it in the first one, They'd might have a little trouble moving it..

[JrSlackin]

>Running to the mini relay and Harbinger decimates everyone, you'd think Tali my love interest who goes on about how much she loves me, and Garrus who said if we go out we go out together, don't even bother looking for me, but instead end up on the Normandy.

Like to add small details like this is what irritated me on the ending. The lack of fine detail near the end based on the relationships etc seemed to be dust in the wind. 

Modifié par JrSlackin, 10 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[moteh]

Lyrandori wrote...

moteh wrote...

Here's a fun one (and if I have this totally wrong please let me know as when it comes to the ending of ME3 it's so very confusing):

ME1: The reapers use the Citadel as a gateway into the heart of the galactic community. The Citadel requires someone on the inside (either Keepers as with previous cycles (I assume) or Saren) to get it all ready for the Reaper arrival.

ME2: The Reapers are out in dark space at the end on their way since the Citadel route is out of the question.

ME3: The final piece for the Crucible was called the Catalyst, the Reaper's master AI that was revealed to be the Citadel, which the Crucible attached to. So the question boils down to, if the
catalyst is an AI, oversees/maintains the cycle, why the heck was Saren or the Keepers needed in the first place?

Still, love the first 99.5% of ME3, the ending is terrible imho, but damn they made an amazing game outside of it.

EDIT: Damn I got beaten bad, I took too long to write this post.

1) Explained by Vigil in ME1, someone is needed to activate the Citadel (as per ME1's lore only, excluding anything coming from ME2 or ME3, let's think as if only ME1 was released, it's the best way to understand it) because during the previous cycle a group of surviving Protheans created the conduit to enter the Citadel to modify the Keepers. They did it so that the Keepers themselves would not "respond" to a signal that is normally sent by the Reapers fleet from dark space for them (the Keepers on the Citadel) to open the Citadel for their arrival.

Since the awareness of the signal was removed from the Keepers then Saren was used as a pion by Sovereign to gather forces and resources, so that when the time comes Sovereign would be able to enter the Citadel's "interior" thanks to Saren opening the arms from the control panel, and later on activating the Citadel for the arrival of the Reapers fleet. So that's why someone was needed to do it in ME1.

2) Explained (ninja'ed lore info) in the Codex (in ME3's Codex that is) that the Reapers can still travel super mega fast, faster than FTL speeds, something along the lines of many light years in a matter of a day, or something like that (I'd have to check, but I can't find the force to even just launch the game anymore). Just go take a look you might have that entry by now in your game.

3) Agreed.

I really need to play ME1 and 2 again it seems   I was a ways off it seems (and I used to pride myself on knowing this stuff, guess I forgot)  Thanks for the correction.

[I have to go]

Synthetics destroy organics in order to save organics from being destroyed by synthetics. Wat?

[JrSlackin]

I have to go wrote...

Synthetics destroy organics in order to save organics from being destroyed by synthetics. Wat?

Think of the whole AI is sworn to protect organics, AI realizes organics are self destructive, AI goes nuts and begins offing organics because it "assumes" it's making things better.

That's the whole thing.

[revo76]

and now i started to think they'll connect these stuff with DLC.

For example we have no idea what happened between Arrival DLC and ME3 How Shepard come to the Earth.

Right now we dont know how Normandy appeared in a some kind of planet.

Maybe we've been picked up by Normandy from ruins then jumped because of explosion ? Or EDI went mad and it jumped the Normandy to somewhere else (same thing happened in Battlestar Galactica Mini-Series)

[Biotic Sage]

JrSlackin wrote...

I have to go wrote...

Synthetics destroy organics in order to save organics from being destroyed by synthetics. Wat?

Think of the whole AI is sworn to protect organics, AI realizes organics are self destructive, AI goes nuts and begins offing organics because it "assumes" it's making things better.

That's the whole thing.

Reapers are techno-organic.  Each of them represents a separate race that was harvested, containing that races DNA.  So in a way, they are preserving that species.  From a synthetic perspective, preserving the DNA, the data of a species, is just as good as preserving the life itself.  So in a messed up way the Reapers are actually protecting organics from the eventuality of their synthetic creations destroying them, in which there is no form of preservation at all, living or DNA or anything.  They aren't "offing" organics.

Also, in response to others' concerns about the Catalyst being able to control the Citadel and thus be able to let the Reapers through, who says that the Catalyst does have control of the Citadel?  It sure didn't seem like it did to me.  Seems like the Catalyst lived within the Citadel and that the Reapers' collective consciousness and the Catalyst's consciousness were one in the same.  After all, the Reapers couldn't move the Citadel to Earth without using the Illusive Man as their agent, and the Catalyst itself couldn't act on any of the decisions, Shepard needed to.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 12:51 .

[DraCZeQQ]

> ME2 - Shape of a Reaper is based on the shape of "preserved" civilization
> ME3 - Every Reaper looks like a squid, where are the protheans shaped reapers? Every civilization before Protheans were squids?

PS: And yea the famous argument of The Child: I'm saving organics from being killed by synthetics, by having my synthetics kill them! - that one is masterpiece ...

[ArbitorEAAcc]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

> ME2 - Shape of a Reaper is based on the shape of "preserved" civilization
> ME3 - Every Reaper looks like a squid, where are the protheans shaped reapers? Every civilization before Protheans were squids?

PS: And yea the famous argument of The Child: I'm saving organics from being killed by synthetics, by having my synthetics kill them! - that one is masterpiece ...

ME2 - Edi said (not a quote) "It appears the reapers tried to create a prothean reaper, but failed"

[Dean_the_Young]

moteh wrote...
So the question boils down to, if the catalyst is an AI, oversees/maintains the cycle, why the heck was Saren or the Keepers needed in the first place?

Because the Protheans of Illos sabotaged the Citadel.

[Dean_the_Young]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

> ME2 - Shape of a Reaper is based on the shape of "preserved" civilization
> ME3 - Every Reaper looks like a squid, where are the protheans shaped reapers? Every civilization before Protheans were squids?

PS: And yea the famous argument of The Child: I'm saving organics from being killed by synthetics, by having my synthetics kill them! - that one is masterpiece ...

This is an old one, with an old answer.

The squid-forms are an outer shell of the unique Reaper inside. The Human Reaper wasn't going to simply be a bigger humanoid: it was going to be the core inside a larger shell.

[ArbitorEAAcc]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

moteh wrote...
So the question boils down to, if the catalyst is an AI, oversees/maintains the cycle, why the heck was Saren or the Keepers needed in the first place?

Because the Protheans of Illos sabotaged the Citadel.

Lol which leaves the whole plot gap of the Kid/AI/God Walking Amongst Mere mortals doing what during ME2? Knitting? As THE citadel why didn't the AI pull a geth and correct the issue, if it was so focused in performing its task a simple "I've been this thing more then 100,000+ years, lets perform a system check. Oh look heres something." 

Course we can get into hardware redudencies, software redudencies. It was a quick poor answer to the secret of the citadel.

[Dean_the_Young]

revo76 wrote...

>Choices

According to child, if we select to destroy reapers, we'll lose Relays as well, but in 3 choices we're losing them anyway. So the choice we made, it's useless technically.

Except destroying the relays isn't the choice: it's the other effects, which will shape galactic civilization for hundreds or thousands of years to come.

The difference between destroying all synthetics, to controlling/enslaving the Reapers, to kicking off the singularity. That's the choice.