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[Eternalsteelfan]

... is how Bioware already told a very similar variant of this story about two and a half years ago. It was called Dragon Age: Origins.

And they did the ending right.

For those unaware, DA:O is the epic journey of the "Warden" (Shepherd equivalent), the last of his kind after a devastating, hopeless battle (similar to the fall of Earth) against an unstoppable destructive force (Reaper equivalent) that cripples humanity and embroils it in a civil war (Alliance vs. Cerberus). Gathering a diverse cast of companions along the way, The Warden must gather the other races as allies (as Shepherd does) who themselves are facing their own divisive, internal issues that the Warden must solve, making difficult decisions the results of which affect whose support he recieves (like Mass Effect 3). The Warden must then end the civil war, uniting the human people, and with the support of the other races, defeat the evil menace once and for all in a climactic battle.

It was an RPG with difficult choices, great characters, a strong narrative, a highly customizable and personal protagonist, and was of comparable length to the Mass Effect trilogy. In short, even disregarding the extremely similar story, the games themselves are fair to compare because of the innate similarities of playstyle, genre, and Bioware production. It's basically Mass Effect in a fantasy setting, which I strongly doubt anyone would debate.

Now, the part that's really frustrating: DA:O's ending was "right" for the kind of game it was. Someone had to die to stop the evil threat for good. As players, we had multiple choices: there was a highly questionable and potentially dangerous "cheat" way out, a former antagonist (Illusive Man equivalent) could make the redemptive sacrifice, your oldest companion who may be be your love interest/chief broseph/both (Garrus or Virimire Survivor equivalent) wants to be the one to take the fall, or you the PC can can take responsibility and die a hero. This was an impactful choice, one that actually made a difference in the ending that happens.

After the sacrifice, we see the world at peace and the impact of our decisions outside of just their wartime implications. I sacrificed my PC, he was eulogized by the Garrus/VS equivalent; our character's origin and race are discussed along with the sacrifice and achievements accomplished, the hope for the future we died to secure is reinforced, the approval level with the eulogizing character is referenced, we see our surviving companions and then after the cinematics we are shown a screen of text for each one informing us of their whereabouts and future, also affected by our interactions with them and decisions.

These two games are heavily story-centric; they are about the world we are introduced into and supposed to fall in love with, the characters who live in this world that we get to know on a personal level unmatched in other games or any other media medium for that matter, the emotional ties we form, and the impact on this world and characters that we make as the PC. Such tales immerse us for dozens if not hundreds of hours, and we become heavily invested. Such tales need conclusive endings because after so much time and investment we need closure, a fuller closure than one needs or desires of shorter form stories.

Dragon Age: Origins got this right. Mass Effect had this right and was pitch perfect all the way up to the last couple of minutes. The rules and laws of the Mass Effect universe, established and reinforced throughout the entire series, are turned on their head with the jarring revelation of the god-like figure. The importance of the choices and impact we made as the PC are essentially overridden and erased by the final choice; everything we did up to this point no longer has a future and the entire universe we have become invested in is undone and more questions are raised than answers given. We are deprived of the closure we so desperately need.

TL;DR: The closure of the kindred Dragon Age: Origins game exemplifies the closure we need from Mass Effect and is especially frustrating in the sense that Bioware did it right once yet misstepped so greatly with it's masterpiece.

[Lyrandori]

Thing is, DAO had an Epilogue, ME3 doesn't, that's about where most complaints stem from and I agree with that. I, myself, at least want to know (via some Epilogue... AT LEAST, not even asking for actual in-game engine scenes, just freaking text on-screen) what happens AFTER the events. Who becomes what, who goes where, who rebuilds what if anything, any Reapers left-overs? Is Cerberus effectively gone, ALL their "cells"? If in your ending Shepard happens to survive from the rubles, then in the Epilogue explain if he/she made it out or someone found him/her. I mean... seriously, most of us here aren't asking for much really (and I'm saying this to BioWare by the way not you directly OP, just reacting to your post).

[Catriana]

Aren't you forgetting the fourth choice? Your warden, (or Alistair/Loghain) could sleep with Morrigan to produce an Old God, which is the uncorrupted form of the Major Threat you face in the game. It's the game's Deus Ex Machina, but it's also not exactly a 'happy' ending. You have no idea whether or not this Old God will come back to bite you in the arse later, if you've only enabled one evil to be destroyed only for something much more powerful to come along later. There's a lot of ambiguity there, and is an ending I wouldn't dismiss.

[Phydeaux314]

That was the aforementioned "possibly evil way out" of the dilemma.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Catriana wrote...

Aren't you forgetting the fourth choice? Your warden, (or Alistair/Loghain) could sleep with Morrigan to produce an Old God, which is the uncorrupted form of the Major Threat you face in the game. It's the game's Deus Ex Machina, but it's also not exactly a 'happy' ending. You have no idea whether or not this Old God will come back to bite you in the arse later, if you've only enabled one evil to be destroyed only for something much more powerful to come along later. There's a lot of ambiguity there, and is an ending I wouldn't dismiss.

This was the "cheat" way out I mentioned first. I think it was a brilliant choice to be given that deserved much thought.
 

[lasertank]

Exactly. They had already done things right in DA:O once, and nobody complains about its self-sacrifice ending. People who think the dark ending of ME3 is good should really consider what happened in DA:O.

[Dangerfoot]

Epilogue slides might have at least given me a sense that ANY of my choices over 3 games mattered. Otherwise it's just a totally meaningless close to what could have been an incredible series.

[Eternalsteelfan]

lasertank wrote...

Exactly. They had already done things right in DA:O once, and nobody complains about its self-sacrifice ending. People who think the dark ending of ME3 is good should really consider what happened in DA:O.

And most importantly, it was a choice with very different effects on the story, which is in line with what these games are supposed to present. The three endings we are given in ME3 are far too similar, compounding the issues mentioned in the original post.

Modifié par Eternalsteelfan, 10 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[et2cetera]

Precisely the same way I feel. After all the time spent on building and getting interested in ME1 and ME2, ME3's endings leave a very unfulfilled and dissatisfactory taste. It's as though the endings were a last minute patch job.

[Lmaoboat]

I don't know, I never even beat DA:O because of how little I cared about anything. If only I could have left Morigan on Virmire...

[OrangeNero]

I miss this in me3 very very hard I am so upset and in rage that i did not get anything at all, a crash on a planet i dunno and thats it. ME3 OWS ME AN ENDING, MY ENDING! this is such a dark moment of gaming for me, i was so excited, my mass effect experience has been ruined.

Now the 3 choices are great idea wise but badly executed and missing a lot of info. That no matter what the portals are destroyed and civilization thrown back is very unpleasing, I believe this whole lack of info and force of a certain type of ending is due to future products. I smell that there will be dlcs or games focusing on this. They sacrificed artistic worth for money. what a shame. what a pity.

I am writing my own custom ending, to hell with this ending I consider it uncannon because of being corrupted by release date or money or stupidity.

[askanec]

What I like about Dragon Age: Origins is that the ending choices are clear and easy-to-understand. The player knows the stakes, the cost and then is offered a devil's bargain as a way out.

I believe Mass Effect 3 could have done a better job in communicating what are the cost and benefit between choice #1, #2 or #3. I believe the reason why people say all the choices look the same (the only difference being the color of the beams) is because the player isn't really given much information regarding the cost vs benefit of taking over the reaper, killing off the reapers, and synthesis.

Take, for instance, the collector base decision at the end of ME2. There is a lot of discussion on that decision: some people say Cerebus cannot be trusted and the base should be destroyed, others say the information could be beneficial in the fight against the reapers, etc. People understand those decisions.

[Lugaidster]

Agreed. I need closure, I got none...

[Xellith]

I look forward to reading it. FK bioware.

[Teddie Sage]

Javik should've been in Shepard's place for the Crucible. Just saying.
You paid for him and he has no other purpose to be just a Zaeed clone.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 12:45 .

[Eternalsteelfan]

OrangeNero wrote...

I miss this in me3 very very hard I am so upset and in rage that i did not get anything at all, a crash on a planet i dunno and thats it. ME3 OWS ME AN ENDING, MY ENDING! this is such a dark moment of gaming for me, i was so excited, my mass effect experience has been ruined.

Now the 3 choices are great idea wise but badly executed and missing a lot of info. That no matter what the portals are destroyed and civilization thrown back is very unpleasing, I believe this whole lack of info and force of a certain type of ending is due to future products. I smell that there will be dlcs or games focusing on this. They sacrificed artistic worth for money. what a shame. what a pity.

I am writing my own custom ending, to hell with this ending I consider it uncannon because of being corrupted by release date or money or stupidity.

For me, this is the most optimistic possibility. I'd like to think there may be post-Crucible DLC as there was post-Collectors' Base DLC for 2 or maybe even Bethesda Fallout 3 Broken Steel-style DLC to rectify the seemingly universal disdain for Mass Effect's conclusion. Unfortunately, with the "stargazer" segment of the ending and the game automatically loading a save that predates the attack on Cerberus, I'm inclined to believe it more realistic that we are stuck with these endings and any DLC will be merely fleshing out the middle of the story with more missions.

As fans, all we can do is make as big a fuss as we can about how unsatisfied we are and hope Bioware addresses it. I will say it's a good precedent that Bioware paid special attention to our reactions to each Mass Effect game, took many suggestions to heart, and created the next ones with those reactions in mind. Maybe we can hope they will somehow continue this with Mass Effect 3 and it's ending fiasco.

[luzburg]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Javik should've been in Shepard's place for the Crucible. Just saying.
You paid for him and he has no other purpose to be just a Zaeed clone.

i agree that culd have been a possebilety if you had him with in the final push

[Lugaidster]

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

OrangeNero wrote...

I miss this in me3 very very hard I am so upset and in rage that i did not get anything at all, a crash on a planet i dunno and thats it. ME3 OWS ME AN ENDING, MY ENDING! this is such a dark moment of gaming for me, i was so excited, my mass effect experience has been ruined.

Now the 3 choices are great idea wise but badly executed and missing a lot of info. That no matter what the portals are destroyed and civilization thrown back is very unpleasing, I believe this whole lack of info and force of a certain type of ending is due to future products. I smell that there will be dlcs or games focusing on this. They sacrificed artistic worth for money. what a shame. what a pity.

I am writing my own custom ending, to hell with this ending I consider it uncannon because of being corrupted by release date or money or stupidity.

For me, this is the most optimistic possibility. I'd like to think there may be post-Crucible DLC as there was post-Collectors' Base DLC for 2 or maybe even Bethesda Fallout 3 Broken Steel-style DLC to rectify the seemingly universal disdain for Mass Effect's conclusion. Unfortunately, with the "stargazer" segment of the ending and the game automatically loading a save that predates the attack on Cerberus, I'm inclined to believe it more realistic that we are stuck with these endings and any DLC will be merely fleshing out the middle of the story with more missions.

As fans, all we can do is make as big a fuss as we can about how unsatisfied we are and hope Bioware addresses it. I will say it's a good precedent that Bioware paid special attention to our reactions to each Mass Effect game, took many suggestions to heart, and created the next ones with those reactions in mind. Maybe we can hope they will somehow continue this with Mass Effect 3 and it's ending fiasco.

They did say that any DLC will be pre final mission. So the only hope you can get is that another mission suddenly unlocks a possible different ending. Doubtful though.

[Rawgrim]

Dragon Age: Origins was produced before EA took over and began to meddle.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Lugaidster wrote...

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

OrangeNero wrote...

I miss this in me3 very very hard I am so upset and in rage that i did not get anything at all, a crash on a planet i dunno and thats it. ME3 OWS ME AN ENDING, MY ENDING! this is such a dark moment of gaming for me, i was so excited, my mass effect experience has been ruined.

Now the 3 choices are great idea wise but badly executed and missing a lot of info. That no matter what the portals are destroyed and civilization thrown back is very unpleasing, I believe this whole lack of info and force of a certain type of ending is due to future products. I smell that there will be dlcs or games focusing on this. They sacrificed artistic worth for money. what a shame. what a pity.

I am writing my own custom ending, to hell with this ending I consider it uncannon because of being corrupted by release date or money or stupidity.

For me, this is the most optimistic possibility. I'd like to think there may be post-Crucible DLC as there was post-Collectors' Base DLC for 2 or maybe even Bethesda Fallout 3 Broken Steel-style DLC to rectify the seemingly universal disdain for Mass Effect's conclusion. Unfortunately, with the "stargazer" segment of the ending and the game automatically loading a save that predates the attack on Cerberus, I'm inclined to believe it more realistic that we are stuck with these endings and any DLC will be merely fleshing out the middle of the story with more missions.

As fans, all we can do is make as big a fuss as we can about how unsatisfied we are and hope Bioware addresses it. I will say it's a good precedent that Bioware paid special attention to our reactions to each Mass Effect game, took many suggestions to heart, and created the next ones with those reactions in mind. Maybe we can hope they will somehow continue this with Mass Effect 3 and it's ending fiasco.

They did say that any DLC will be pre final mission. So the only hope you can get is that another mission suddenly unlocks a possible different ending. Doubtful though.

I wasn't aware. Nonetheless, you gotta hold on to hope. They said beating the Reapers was impossible...

[deathscythe517]

Actually, I just booted up my DAO to confirm your argument, Rawgrim, it was produced under EA. :/ I still think it's Bioware's bruised ego or inflated ego more than EA's interference - a gaming corp with a monopoly doesn't give a **** what its subsidiaries do so long as it makes money.

[lasertank]

Rawgrim wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins was produced before EA took over and began to meddle.

Point taken.

[Biotic Sage]

Dragon Age: Origins had a great classic RPG ending.  The text consequences were interesting, but would have been an awful decision in cinematic storytelling.

Mass Effect 3 went beyond that. It had a cinematic, emotionally poignant ending, but still gave us a climactic choice.

In terms of storytelling, ME3 exceeds DA:O.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[Eternalsteelfan]

deathscythe517 wrote...

Actually, I just booted up my DAO to confirm your argument, Rawgrim, it was produced under EA. :/ I still think it's Bioware's bruised ego or inflated ego more than EA's interference - a gaming corp with a monopoly doesn't give a **** what its subsidiaries do so long as it makes money.

Yeah, I'm wary about blaming the publisher. EA is always an easy target for blame, but I find it doubtful that at some point they sent over a corporate lackey to tell Bioware, "Hey, we like what you did with this draft of the script but we really want to risk pissing our customers off. Stick some crazy stuff there in the end, it'll be hilarious".

[Rawgrim]

deathscythe517 wrote...

Actually, I just booted up my DAO to confirm your argument, Rawgrim, it was produced under EA. :/ I still think it's Bioware's bruised ego or inflated ego more than EA's interference - a gaming corp with a monopoly doesn't give a **** what its subsidiaries do so long as it makes money.

Dragon Age Origins was pretty much finished when EA came in. They bought Bioware just prior to release of DA:O, if I remember correctly. The same goes for Mass Effect 1.