34 réponses à ce sujet

[CaptainJaques]

 So it seems a bunch of people are upset they can't defeat the Reapers, pick up there favourite LI, and retire on some far off moon base. WAH.
That's not the issue with the endings IMO. I was fully expecting Shep to bite the dust, those dreams were riduclously straightforward in their foreshadowing. 
No my issue is the way Shepard bites it. 

We've had over three games of making galaxy altering decisions, building relationships with characters who we've come to love, and for the first 25 hours of Mass Effect 3 we are taken on an emotional roller coaster ride where our every decision alters the lives of millions. 
All destroyed in five minutes. Simplicity is always the answer in writing. I could have gone with not knowing what exactly the Reapers were and simply dying with Anderson as the galaxy was rid of them, but instead I get slapped with slim rationalizations for the existence of the Reapers and their cycles and even slimmer rationalization for the choices I am forced to make at the end.
Mass Effect has never been about Man versus Machine, indeed my choices have led my Shepard's path to be a reconciliatory one between the creators and the created. So WHY.I have proven little god baby (*GASP, it's morrigans kid isnt it?) wrong before he's even opened his McGuffin mouth to speak. 
Mass Effect has always been about choice. I have loved and championed these games because of the promise they offered and I fully expected a Dragon Age: origins-like resolution. One that at least gave you a run down of the consequences of your actions.
But in one fell swoop, the writers of the game have destroyed every investment I've put into the games over the past three years. Why bother playing it again? In the end, none of it mattered. The cosmos played a game of red-light, green-light while I sat stunned.
People keep talking about a possible upcoming fix... There's no way any DLC would fix my shaken faith. I was taken as a BioWare fanboy by Mass Effect 1, I guess it's only appropriate I jumped off the wagon after Mass Effect 3.

[LilyasAvalon]

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

[Kitten Tactics]

As I said in another thread:

It's as if you came across a member of your audience in the desert. And instead of giving them a drink from your water bottle, you built a rube goldberg device that dumps a bucket of water on their head. And if they do the proper amount of sidequests, they get to lick a drop or two off of their skin. Couldn't you just give us the drink of water?

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". - Albert Einstein

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication". - Leonardo Da Vinci

"It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away". - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Why could you not have just even given the OPTION (something this series has always been about at it's core) for a clear, and hopeful ending? We don't need more intrigue and questions at the very end of a 90 hour experience.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Lack of a happy ending is far from the only problem with the endings, but it is part of it, IMO.

[CaptainJaques]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

I steered clear of the leaks as I didn't want to spoil the game for myself... What did they involve?

[AlyxMS]

Yes it is.

[deathscythe517]

You know when you go "wah" you're being more obnoxious than most of the people whining about not getting the picket fence ending, while I agree that ending is out of place, some kind of epilogue was a must and is why people are quite POd. Still, work on your people skills.

[nitefyre410]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

As I said in another thread:

It's as if you came across a member of your audience in the desert. And instead of giving them a drink from your water bottle, you built a rube goldberg device that dumps a bucket of water on their head. And if they do the proper amount of sidequests, they get to lick a drop or two off of their skin. Couldn't you just give us the drink of water?

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler". - Albert Einstein

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication". - Leonardo Da Vinci

"It seems that perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away". - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Why could you not have just even given the OPTION (something this series has always been about at it's core) for a clear, and hopeful ending? We don't need more intrigue and questions at the very end of a 90 hour experience.

 

because unlike you and I we understand all that but the writers at Bioware dont.  There should have been a sliding scale of endings from Earn you happy ending to  Crap Sack world.   How does  XIII-2 have more variance in  tis endings with only  8  than Mass Effect 3 being the ending 3 games that all involded choice.    Mass Effect 3 has 16 of pretty much the same ending.. its just really  sad that they tried to pass that off.

[LilyasAvalon]

CaptainJaques wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

I steered clear of the leaks as I didn't want to spoil the game for myself... What did they involve?

You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

[Zulakkar]

My current loathing of the endings besides the none existing "good" ending is that none of the current endings are Paragon worthy....
Red : Genocide of your allies and throwing the entire galaxy into the Dark Ages of Tech
Green : Again Genocide, you are in a "peacefull" way killing all organic life by combining them both thus removing their choice, which is something that I doubt Paragon Shepard would allow
Blue : This one is dodgy, He takes control but the Reapers are still out there, how long will he be able to exist before he decides to end himself or that he is a god or something like that ?

The ammount of Genocide in the endings are just not acceptable!
Neither is the fact that he can become a Reaper god himself.

[DarkSpider88]

While it isn't the only problem. I would have appreciated an option to have Shepard stick it to the Reapers and go back into the Galaxy like the hero he is.

[10 Steps Back]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

CaptainJaques wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

I steered clear of the leaks as I didn't want to spoil the game for myself... What did they involve?

You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

Sounds much better than what we got.

[AlyxMS]

The worst part is not Shepard's death.
It is the destruction of the relays.

Everything Mass effect 1 and 2 is presenting.
The culture of the galaxy.
Finally just become a dream or a story.

[LilyasAvalon]

10 Steps Back wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

Sounds much better than what we got.

I think anything sounds better at this point.

[CaptainJaques]

[/quote]
You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

[/quote]

That definitely would have made more sense than god-baby and his strange justifications of galaxy-wide genocide.

[LilyasAvalon]

You were apparently meant to have the choice of destroying the reapers and hope you find a way to defeat the dark energy with such little time left. Or sacrifice humanity to become the next addition to the reaper family.

[d-boy15]

I don't know why in the 'Best Ending', they not make it like the ending of Crysis 2.

At least with the epic scene like that, it would be make me forget about all plothole
and worth the 5,000EMS that I tried to collect for 30 hours.

Modifié par d-boy15, 10 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[Cadaver19]

Seriously, jumped the shark will forever be replaced by Mass Effect.

[jb1983]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

CaptainJaques wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

I steered clear of the leaks as I didn't want to spoil the game for myself... What did they involve?

You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

They could have easily pointed out that the Reapers were harvesting these civilizations so that they could live forever, rather than just dying off once the galaxy collapsed (Reapers can live in dark space). Before the collapse of the galaxy, the collected intelligence of the civilizations was being harvested and used together. Why continue to harvest? Because - as this program would point out to Shepard - look at how hard it was to get the civlizations in his own cycle to move on an immediate threat. How much harder would it be to get them to move on a long-off threat? Thus, by harvesting societies, the Reapers ensure that the collective intelligence gets used for one singular goal. 

This leaves you with a very interesting ending to the game. Either you:

1) Find a compromise where the Reapers allow the current species to continue living, but that once the dark energy crisis hits a critical mass they'll return and complete what they started

2) Finish the Reapers by destroying the command hub, but you would lose the relays due to the fact they're tied to the Reapers (Shep, however, continues to live and there is no stupid Normandy crash scene). This, of course, makes finding a solution to dark energy nigh impossible since you'd first have to re-develop the technology for mass effect relays (which could be done). 

3) Allow the Reapers to continue doing what they do best (this would be non-canon)

Now, none of those is a happy, "Disney" ending. In (1) you're left with the fact that you've simply delayed the inevitable...unless you can come up with a solution. (2) is the closest you get to a "happy ending" because the Reapers are gone forever, but you've also lost their relay technology. Plus, you still have the "dark energy" impending doom stuff. And (3) is a very dark ending. 

Another great part is that this provides a much better conflict of interest in the game. The Reapers are shown to have good goals, but questionable methods. Of course, through much dialogue you'd come to discover that what the Reapers are doing really is the most logical solution, even if the most detestable. It creates a major conflict in your decisions...while allowing for excellent DLC and an interesting launching point for future installments of the game (sans Shepard). Likewise, depending on how you've played the game and your readiness status, you could have a "Shepard live/die" scenario in all three choices. This leaves you with six very distinct endings that would change everything. 

And here's the wild thing about all of this - they could actually release this as the DLC ending and have it all take place after the defeat of the Illusive Man. It wouldn't change anything within the game to do so. And for those who do like the current endings, cool, they don't have to download the DLC. For the vast majority of ME fans who want an actual ending, this would supply some nice closure. Oh, and even more, the DLC wouldn't impact future game installments because the DLC I propose doesn't contradict the original endings - it could simply be explained that this was the real reason the Reapers were doing what they were doing, but didn't explain it because they didn't think we'd understand. Or something like that. 

I'm sure some writers, if they spent time on it, could get it all to work out. 

[CareerKnight]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

You were apparently meant to have the choice of destroying the reapers and hope you find a way to defeat the dark energy with such little time left. Or sacrifice humanity to become the next addition to the reaper family.

I have noticed a lot of similarities between the Mass Effect series and Star Control 3 and the first option you described there is basically the end of sc3 only it continues with you finding a solution. And jb1983 I think the first option you mentioned is the only happy one since you actually have hope in that one for finding a solution where as in 2 you're screwed with only the conciliation that the reapers died before you.

Modifié par CareerKnight, 10 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[Archereon]

It would have been pathetically easy to make these current endings happier. Remove the mass relays exploding (or even just the part where the Normandy crashes), and make it so that Anderson (if he lives) and your squad accompanies you to the catalyst, and make it possible for one of them to make the sacrifice in the Control or synthesis endings.

It would still be a brain breakingly dumb ending, but it wouldn't be nearly as crushing as the one we got.

Modifié par Archereon, 10 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Tamcia]

Yes it is. You want one thing, people want another. Why should you get what you want but not others? ME is about choice. ME3 ending - BW trolling us, because everything in the end is BAD.

[Melra]

I didn't like the "original" plot. It just seems dumb and trading one danger to another. I like the way my Shepards story ended, I just wish they would've given more closure in the end. Like: Did Shep really survive? How is Miranda and will those two ever see each other again? How tha heck did my squad get from London back into Normandy? Why were they even leaving? How will life go on from that point onward?

I am just slightly troubled that they'll start a next game and choose a canon ending for ME3, that I'd have to just live with, I wouldn't want to play that game.

I didn't find the ending great by no means, but I still don't think it deserves the hate it's getting.

[killnoob]

jb1983 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

CaptainJaques wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the original plan for the endings?

I steered clear of the leaks as I didn't want to spoil the game for myself... What did they involve?

You remember all that foreshadowing about Dark Energy in ME2? That was originally meant to be the ending for ME3 apparently. The reapers were trying to find a way to prevent this dark energy from destroying everything by 'uplifiting' species into powerful reapers... or something like that.

They could have easily pointed out that the Reapers were harvesting these civilizations so that they could live forever, rather than just dying off once the galaxy collapsed (Reapers can live in dark space). Before the collapse of the galaxy, the collected intelligence of the civilizations was being harvested and used together. Why continue to harvest? Because - as this program would point out to Shepard - look at how hard it was to get the civlizations in his own cycle to move on an immediate threat. How much harder would it be to get them to move on a long-off threat? Thus, by harvesting societies, the Reapers ensure that the collective intelligence gets used for one singular goal. 

This leaves you with a very interesting ending to the game. Either you:

1) Find a compromise where the Reapers allow the current species to continue living, but that once the dark energy crisis hits a critical mass they'll return and complete what they started

2) Finish the Reapers by destroying the command hub, but you would lose the relays due to the fact they're tied to the Reapers (Shep, however, continues to live and there is no stupid Normandy crash scene). This, of course, makes finding a solution to dark energy nigh impossible since you'd first have to re-develop the technology for mass effect relays (which could be done). 

3) Allow the Reapers to continue doing what they do best (this would be non-canon)

Now, none of those is a happy, "Disney" ending. In (1) you're left with the fact that you've simply delayed the inevitable...unless you can come up with a solution. (2) is the closest you get to a "happy ending" because the Reapers are gone forever, but you've also lost their relay technology. Plus, you still have the "dark energy" impending doom stuff. And (3) is a very dark ending. 

Another great part is that this provides a much better conflict of interest in the game. The Reapers are shown to have good goals, but questionable methods. Of course, through much dialogue you'd come to discover that what the Reapers are doing really is the most logical solution, even if the most detestable. It creates a major conflict in your decisions...while allowing for excellent DLC and an interesting launching point for future installments of the game (sans Shepard). Likewise, depending on how you've played the game and your readiness status, you could have a "Shepard live/die" scenario in all three choices. This leaves you with six very distinct endings that would change everything. 

And here's the wild thing about all of this - they could actually release this as the DLC ending and have it all take place after the defeat of the Illusive Man. It wouldn't change anything within the game to do so. And for those who do like the current endings, cool, they don't have to download the DLC. For the vast majority of ME fans who want an actual ending, this would supply some nice closure. Oh, and even more, the DLC wouldn't impact future game installments because the DLC I propose doesn't contradict the original endings - it could simply be explained that this was the real reason the Reapers were doing what they were doing, but didn't explain it because they didn't think we'd understand. Or something like that. 

I'm sure some writers, if they spent time on it, could get it all to work out. 

Nah.

The writers don't even have to explain ****, really.

We've been told countless times Reapers are incomprehensible, so why try to explain them?

The catalyst kid is a horrible idea. The dark energy one isn't that good either.
The best is to leave  that to the players imagination and focus on what really matters - the war between the galaxy and the reapers.

that's all everyone really want to see isn't it?

Who wins.

Think about it this way - the theme of ME3 is basically "unity".  United we stand, divided we beg.
The players don't need to know about some blah cycle that's going on behind the scene.
The players don't need to know about what the reapers are and what they're after.
What the players need to know is whether their effort in gathering the armada paid off or not.
Is Unity able to prevent the universe from destruction?

Imagine this.

Today the catalyst kid doesn't exist.
Today, we either got enough army to defend the crucible long enough for it to fire and destroy the reapers, or we dont and the galaxy fall victims to the reapers.

Just these 2 options.

Can you complain anything about the endings then?
No you can't, because the entire ME3 revolves around getting the armada and building crucible. And the entire ME franchise revolves around the reaper's threats. Those two endings  are the only ones that the Franchise need. Simplicity is better.

Instead we got a ending that involves a glowing kid trying to be all omnipotent and wise (Reapers are machines that kill organics to stop organic from building machines that kill organic? lol!)  but ended up looking like a retard and our shepards are forced to choose between 3 stupid solutions which lead to the exact same thing. Thats why people feel disappointed. That's why the endings need to be changed.

Modifié par killnoob, 10 mars 2012 - 04:40 .