277 réponses à ce sujet

[TakezoDunmer2005]

In all honesty I would have to say choice number one, because it's usually not the devs/writers that make the decisions concerning the end product's condition upon release.

[Oilking72]

If I were them I would feel pretty damn good right now. They made easily the best game in the series and wrote the best material and interactions for all the characters. I also have no problem with the ending that I chose.

Almost perfection.

EDIT:  oh my God Schneidend, you literally pulled my thoughts right out of my head.  Thanks for the effort of a great post.

Modifié par Oilking72, 11 mars 2012 - 08:17 .

[xxSanitysuxx]

Schneidend wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Either they are feeling....

1. Dissapointed that the fans weren't satisfied with their vision for the end of the series

2. Regretful that they didn't have the time/resources/control to make the ending that they actually wanted

3. Angry at the fans for not appreciating their artistic vision. Angry because we don't have the right to reject their writing or demand a change.

4. Happy that they are getting a nice big pay-check and great reviews from critics. Fan reaction doesn't really matter.

Which do you think?

1. "The fans"? As a longtime Bioware fan, I really enjoyed the endings. They weren't what I expected, but ending "Green" tied up the transhumanism and the relation between organics and synthetics quite nicely. I'm afraid the assertion that because a vocal minority on these (and other) forums disapproves means that Bioware somehow failed is patently ridiculous.

2. They delayed the game several months as it was. They had the time and the resources to put together one hell of a game. You didn't like it. Believe it or not, that's okay. World keeps on turning. The world of fiction would be boring if it wasn't contentiously divided. The mistake is to try to take control over that which you cannot control. Didn't you learn anything from the Illusive Man's folly?

3. I imagine if they're angry at anything, it's at the outright rudeness, slander, and vitriol they have to experience from the endings' detractors. Everyday Bioware's staff has had to endure the constant assaults of a hateful and ungrateful community that uses the anonymity of the Internet to allow them to behave like rabid animals. Imagine if you completed a homework assignment, essay, work report, renovation, or some other project that required a personal investment of your time and energy, and your teacher/boss/client threw it in your face and wished somebody would shoot you, called you worthless, and accused you not only of apathy toward their wellbeing and opinion, but maliciously stealing their money as well. Bioware, more so than other developers whose forums I've frequented, experiences this EVERY time they release a new game.

4. This is perhaps the most loaded and downright slanderous of your back-handed attempt to create a "discussion." Of COURSE the fans' opinions matter. Those fans who offer constructive criticisms and ideas, at least. Mass Effect 3 is easily the most fan-informed game I've ever played. If I had the time, I would do a new playthrough just to count every single instance of fan service, inside joking, self-reference, and ideas translated virtually verbatim from these very forums. For you to insist that the Mass Effect team doesn't care is probably very insulting to many of the staff. Maybe not Chris Priestly, who is downright made of armor and nails to deal with this community on a daily basis, but what about Christina Norman, Patrick Weekes, Preston Watamaniuk or any of the other rad people on the ME team?

Do you think it's Christina's JOB to personally talk to mechanically curious players and let them know exactly how much damage each of ME2's guns deals per shot/pellet, the exact multiplier every weapon and power has against different defense types, etc.? No. She cheerfully told us all these things after the game had shipped simply because we asked. She might do the same for ME3, but I wouldn't blame her if she didn't after seeing some of these sorts of threads.

How about Patrick Weekes? Do you think he gets paid to tell us about his wife's Vanguard antics in the multiplayer beta? Do you think he's the sort of person who "doesn't care" when he galvanizes the "Team Vanguard" movement through his interaction with the fans via his independent blog posts? Don't answer those questions. They're rhetorical. Look it up. Judging by the topic question, you're familiar with the concept in a snide, weaselly sense, at least.

Quite a rant, but I think it had to be put out there.

Well, you're wrong there

Modifié par xxSanitysuxx, 11 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[DarthCaine]

Beyond how much money they're making off Call of Duty drones, I doubt the writers care.
In their arrogant mind, any criticism is just hating, they believe they're perfect

[Oilking72]

DarthCaine wrote...

Beyond how much money they're making off Call of Duty drones, I doubt the writers care.
In their arrogant mind, any criticism is just hating, they believe they're perfect

Lol.  Wow.

[Belhawk]

i disagree, i thought the endings were bad, depressing. the synergy ending is like where everyone becomes like Saren and u only can think thoughts that the repears approve of. In the good endings shep may live or die, but the relays are destroyed and each planet is on its own to surive, and most planets got ripped apart by the reapers. Depressing.
In ME 1 & 2, i played all the classes at least once, but i won't do that with ME 3 because of the endings. I don't see any GOOD endings, just some aren't as bad as others.
If u enjoyed the endings, then good for you, but for me, i found them depressing.

[JeffZero]

Belhawk wrote...

i disagree, i thought the endings were bad, depressing. the synergy ending is like where everyone becomes like Saren and u only can think thoughts that the repears approve of. In the good endings shep may live or die, but the relays are destroyed and each planet is on its own to surive, and most planets got ripped apart by the reapers. Depressing.
In ME 1 & 2, i played all the classes at least once, but i won't do that with ME 3 because of the endings. I don't see any GOOD endings, just some aren't as bad as others.
If u enjoyed the endings, then good for you, but for me, i found them depressing.

I don't really think the Reapers themselves would have been thrilled with synergy though, so it sort of makes a world of difference to me.

[xxSanitysuxx]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

xxSanitysuxx wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Either they are feeling....

1. Dissapointed that the fans weren't satisfied with their vision for the end of the series

2. Regretful that they didn't have the time/resources/control to make the ending that they actually wanted

3. Angry at the fans for not appreciating their artistic vision. Angry because we don't have the right to reject their writing or demand a change.

4. Happy that they are getting a nice big pay-check and great reviews from critics. Fan reaction doesn't really matter.

Which do you think?

1. "The fans"? As a longtime Bioware fan, I really enjoyed the endings. They weren't what I expected, but ending "Green" tied up the transhumanism and the relation between organics and synthetics quite nicely. I'm afraid the assertion that because a vocal minority on these (and other) forums disapproves means that Bioware somehow failed is patently ridiculous.

2. They delayed the game several months as it was. They had the time and the resources to put together one hell of a game. You didn't like it. Believe it or not, that's okay. World keeps on turning. The world of fiction would be boring if it wasn't contentiously divided. The mistake is to try to take control over that which you cannot control. Didn't you learn anything from the Illusive Man's folly?

3. I imagine if they're angry at anything, it's at the outright rudeness, slander, and vitriol they have to experience from the endings' detractors. Everyday Bioware's staff has had to endure the constant assaults of a hateful and ungrateful community that uses the anonymity of the Internet to allow them to behave like rabid animals. Imagine if you completed a homework assignment, essay, work report, renovation, or some other project that required a personal investment of your time and energy, and your teacher/boss/client threw it in your face and wished somebody would shoot you, called you worthless, and accused you not only of apathy toward their wellbeing and opinion, but maliciously stealing their money as well. Bioware, more so than other developers whose forums I've frequented, experiences this EVERY time they release a new game.

4. This is perhaps the most loaded and downright slanderous of your back-handed attempt to create a "discussion." Of COURSE the fans' opinions matter. Those fans who offer constructive criticisms and ideas, at least. Mass Effect 3 is easily the most fan-informed game I've ever played. If I had the time, I would do a new playthrough just to count every single instance of fan service, inside joking, self-reference, and ideas translated virtually verbatim from these very forums. For you to insist that the Mass Effect team doesn't care is probably very insulting to many of the staff. Maybe not Chris Priestly, who is downright made of armor and nails to deal with this community on a daily basis, but what about Christina Norman, Patrick Weekes, Preston Watamaniuk or any of the other rad people on the ME team?

Do you think it's Christina's JOB to personally talk to mechanically curious players and let them know exactly how much damage each of ME2's guns deals per shot/pellet, the exact multiplier every weapon and power has against different defense types, etc.? No. She cheerfully told us all these things after the game had shipped simply because we asked. She might do the same for ME3, but I wouldn't blame her if she didn't after seeing some of these sorts of threads.

How about Patrick Weekes? Do you think he gets paid to tell us about his wife's Vanguard antics in the multiplayer beta? Do you think he's the sort of person who "doesn't care" when he galvanizes the "Team Vanguard" movement through his interaction with the fans via his independent blog posts? Don't answer those questions. They're rhetorical. Look it up. Judging by the topic question, you're familiar with the concept in a snide, weaselly sense, at least.

Quite a rant, but I think it had to be put out there.

Well, you're wrong there

Putting my troll-face mask down for a minute...

No, he's right. BioWare employees do care about the fans. YOU are just alkdjflkasdfklajsdl;fkjaskldfjlkasdjf....

*I had to go crazy on the keyboard because I surely would have been banned if I actually said what I thought of you*

For the love of god, i dont care what you think of me. I agree with his post too, i only disagreed with one word of his post which i underlined, bolded and italicized. But that wasnt enough apparently... next time atleast read the previous post carefully before replying

[Foxhound2020]

It wasn't a writing decision.

Writers don't make those decisions. They get told how it should end and then they come up with versions of it.

The developers or upper management made that decision. It was probably because they wanted to start from scratch with a new Mass Effect, so they committed seppuku on their own series to rebuild it.

They probably don't have a clue how they want to begin the next mass effect, so they played it safe and killed everything to make something fit.

I'm not satisfied with that anymore than others are, and the people who dislike it vastly outnumber the ones who do.

Modifié par Foxhound2020, 11 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

  
Sorting the hate mail.

Modifié par PinkDiamondstl, 11 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[Schneidend]

xxSanitysuxx wrote...

Well, you're wrong there

Am I really?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are 500 members of this community who have seen the endings. Do you honestly think 251 or more of those members all agree that "the endings are bad and Bioware should feel bad"? Anything less then 50% or more of a population is a minority. Period.

[cpolisch]

Schneidend wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Either they are feeling....

1. Dissapointed that the fans weren't satisfied with their vision for the end of the series

2. Regretful that they didn't have the time/resources/control to make the ending that they actually wanted

3. Angry at the fans for not appreciating their artistic vision. Angry because we don't have the right to reject their writing or demand a change.

4. Happy that they are getting a nice big pay-check and great reviews from critics. Fan reaction doesn't really matter.

Which do you think?

1. "The fans"? As a longtime Bioware fan, I really enjoyed the endings. They weren't what I expected, but ending "Green" tied up the transhumanism and the relation between organics and synthetics quite nicely. I'm afraid the assertion that because a vocal minority on these (and other) forums disapproves means that Bioware somehow failed is patently ridiculous.

2. They delayed the game several months as it was. They had the time and the resources to put together one hell of a game. You didn't like it. Believe it or not, that's okay. World keeps on turning. The world of fiction would be boring if it wasn't contentiously divided. The mistake is to try to take control over that which you cannot control. Didn't you learn anything from the Illusive Man's folly?

3. I imagine if they're angry at anything, it's at the outright rudeness, slander, and vitriol they have to experience from the endings' detractors. Everyday Bioware's staff has had to endure the constant assaults of a hateful and ungrateful community that uses the anonymity of the Internet to allow them to behave like rabid animals. Imagine if you completed a homework assignment, essay, work report, renovation, or some other project that required a personal investment of your time and energy, and your teacher/boss/client threw it in your face and wished somebody would shoot you, called you worthless, and accused you not only of apathy toward their wellbeing and opinion, but maliciously stealing their money as well. Bioware, more so than other developers whose forums I've frequented, experiences this EVERY time they release a new game.

4. This is perhaps the most loaded and downright slanderous of your back-handed attempt to create a "discussion." Of COURSE the fans' opinions matter. Those fans who offer constructive criticisms and ideas, at least. Mass Effect 3 is easily the most fan-informed game I've ever played. If I had the time, I would do a new playthrough just to count every single instance of fan service, inside joking, self-reference, and ideas translated virtually verbatim from these very forums. For you to insist that the Mass Effect team doesn't care is probably very insulting to many of the staff. Maybe not Chris Priestly, who is downright made of armor and nails to deal with this community on a daily basis, but what about Christina Norman, Patrick Weekes, Preston Watamaniuk or any of the other rad people on the ME team?

Do you think it's Christina's JOB to personally talk to mechanically curious players and let them know exactly how much damage each of ME2's guns deals per shot/pellet, the exact multiplier every weapon and power has against different defense types, etc.? No. She cheerfully told us all these things after the game had shipped simply because we asked. She might do the same for ME3, but I wouldn't blame her if she didn't after seeing some of these sorts of threads.

How about Patrick Weekes? Do you think he gets paid to tell us about his wife's Vanguard antics in the multiplayer beta? Do you think he's the sort of person who "doesn't care" when he galvanizes the "Team Vanguard" movement through his interaction with the fans via his independent blog posts? Don't answer those questions. They're rhetorical. Look it up. Judging by the topic question, you're familiar with the concept in a snide, weaselly sense, at least.

Quite a rant, but I think it had to be put out there.

I'm sorry.  I have sat on this forum, said next to nothing about the endings, and told myself on many different occasions--hey, it's fiction, life goes on.  But this post has got to be the most presumptuous, rude, kiss-*** message I have ever read in my life.  

The ending was not just dissatisfactory to some of the fans.  You admitted yourself that countless people are absolutely furious over them.  Yes, some people go too far in their slander--but that does not negate the fact that they have every right to be angry.  We spent five years with this series, these characters.  We invested emotion into these characters.  And you think that your wordy, obnoxious message makes us the idiots?  The endings were streamlined.  They were bad.  There is absolutely zero defense for them.  EDIT for spoilers:  did not realize this was general.  

They promised on more than one occasion to deliver an ending that the fans thought was satisfactory.  Casey Hudson stated multiple times he intended to satisfy the fans.  He even stated once that he would do so, at any cost to what the team had to do for the future.  But he didn't.  Bioware didn't.  They stuck us with some railroad bull that left the majority of the fans feeling dissastisfied.  And yeah, the majority.  Just because a few fans didn't mind the endings, probably because they were no where near as invested as Bioware's core fanbase, does not mean that we are not the majority.  There are polls.  There are stats.  This isn't just on the forums, my friend.  This is everywhere.  It's a fact.  The endings were not satisfactory to the majority of the people who played the game.

We were robbed of the experience we were promised.  And yet you call the OP "slanderous" and the post a "back-handed attempt at a discussion?"  You think we don't have a right to voice our opinion?  After spending one hundred and eighty dollars, give or take, on this series?  Even if we were in the minority, we would have every right to do so.  Bioware is a company that produces games.  Their job is to get the fans excited.  Period.  And then to deliver an experience that they are able to enjoy.  That is their JOB.  It is all of their jobs.  It's called PR, it's called advertising.  It's a thing.

But, I don't mind people defending Bioware.  I think Bioware made a good game, and if you look at most of the "slanderous" comments to the writers--most of the fans let them know that.  The fans say the writers ruined it with the last ten minutes.  Very few of them actually say "terrible game, go die."  The ones that do may be wrong, but so are you for pretending that Bioware is some sort of game-making god who has done no wrong at all.  

Imagine if you completed a homework assignment, essay, work report, renovation, or some other project that required a personal investment of your time and energy, and your teacher/boss/client threw it in your face and wished somebody would shoot you, called you worthless, and accused you not only of apathy toward their wellbeing and opinion, but maliciously stealing their money as well. Bioware, more so than other developers whose forums I've frequented, experiences this EVERY time they release a new game.  

Well, I'm fairly certain every time I do a homework assignment, essay, work report, renovation, or some other project that requires my personal investment of time and energy that I get feedback.  You think I've never had to listen to someone say they weren't satisfied?  You think that isn't part of it?  Sure there are people out there who go too far, and I've already said that.  But that isn't who you're talking to.  You just attacked the creator of this message, who is obviously just a fan who is trying to figure out WHAT Bioware is thinking.  Did the OP say any of Bioware should go shoot themselves?  That they stole from us?  No.  Maybe implied Bioware doesn't care, but that is because he/she is hurt and frustrated at the LACK OF RESPONSE we've received.  

You think the fans get too frustrated with Bioware?  Just look at the difference in their games from past to present.  Bioware is deviating from their core fanbase.  This is what happens when people realize that you are appealing to other groups while forsaking your original fans.  

So, you, and all the rude, insensitive people like you, need to get down off their high horses and realize that by insulting the fans who have invested  emotion, time and money into these games.  Your post was rude, attempting to appeal to the few Bioware moderators who might see it at the expense of someone who you knew would see it.  That doesn't make you any sort of hero, despite what the devs may think.

Modifié par cpolisch, 11 mars 2012 - 08:56 .

[NeoGuardian86]

 they should feel proud of the accomplishment they did with 3 with how well they weaved a lot of the former companions in and out and how they did the main story over all.

I still think they massively dropped the ball at the ending(s) though. 


Mass Effect 3 : Life sucks, then you die.

Modifié par NeoGuardian86, 11 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[StabGuy]

DarthCaine wrote...

Beyond how much money they're making off Call of Duty drones, I doubt the writers care.
In their arrogant mind, any criticism is just hating, they believe they're perfect

Could be true.

They don't interact with fans because they are weak - human - they fear rejection. It's much easier to just ignore us, close their eyes and pretend they are in a happy place.

ME3's ending just puts a stain on the games industry, it shows the maturity of this medium is far from professional. If you put 5 seconds of effort into a 60hour game, then how do you expect fans show respect you feel is deserved? It goes both ways.

[TheShadowWolf911]

'sniff' that was beautiful cpolisch

[realpokerjedi]

Go on twitter and see for yourself.

Mac Walters @macwalterslives and @GambleMike

Vent to them there.

I will quote him

Mike
"By the way... I am reading all of your thoughts. Just not ready to comment yet."

then

Mac

well he hasn't really replied to someone who isn't loving the series.

Modifié par realpokerjedi, 11 mars 2012 - 09:04 .

[Bleachrude]

I've seen this before and while I'm also somewhat displeased with the endings, I take issue with the idea that it was senior management that is responsible for the ending..

The loss of the relays AND the citadel fundamentally changes the structure of the ME universe. Senior management types are loath to blow up the cash cow UNLESS it was dying slowly already...

Given that the previous game in the series was a monster hit, there is LITTLE chance of EA suits being responsible..

The ending feels like something a singular writing team would do...."Blow up the setting" and start writing stories in the new setting..

[Foolsfolly]

Can I just say, that when the script leaked over Xbox Live and everyone started having a fit over the endings... and BioWare said it was an early draft and they were taking opinions into consideration...

What did they change? Because this is still those ****ty no-win endings.

[Farbautisonn]

cpolisch wrote...
/snip.

/agree.

People are PO'd, and there is no olive branch (sofar) despite the explicit statement by a lead that this would be a game that would satisfy the players.

For me, its not so much the endings. Its the way they were executed. They were done to leave basically only the promise of dispair for pretty much any and all NPC's we have vested 5 years of emotions in. Hell, even "Schindlers list" left us with more hope than this. It seemed rushed, it seemed as if the writers or the devs or both didnt have a clear vision of where they wanted this to end so they left us with what they had. Nothing. And to support that notion I present that the ingame logic and consistensy is bollocked all to hell in the final 10 minutes. Worse than in the Intro and that sucked pretty bad as it were.

As for further games in the franchise... Not interested if this is the level of storytelling I can expect.

[JeffZero]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Can I just say, that when the script leaked over Xbox Live and everyone started having a fit over the endings... and BioWare said it was an early draft and they were taking opinions into consideration...

What did they change? Because this is still those ****ty no-win endings.

None should have ever believed it would happen. Most developers caught in such situations have historically stated such things and then not changed anything. I told people that for months.

Although in this case, somewhat ironically, something was indeed altered but not in the sense you're looking for. Originally a certain something I won't mention for spoilers on this board wasn't going to happen in most endings.

[Tecumseh420]

Schneidend wrote...

xxSanitysuxx wrote...

Well, you're wrong there

Am I really?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are 500 members of this community who have seen the endings. Do you honestly think 251 or more of those members all agree that "the endings are bad and Bioware should feel bad"? Anything less then 50% or more of a population is a minority. Period.

LOL..........wow.

12,000 ppl voted in this poll. 97% didn't like it. 

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

Modifié par Tecumseh420, 11 mars 2012 - 09:32 .

[calis_riakel]

i'd go with option 4. I doubt they give a damn what we think. They've sold their boxes, so who cares if people liked how the game closed out.

[Nozybidaj]

Just youtubed the endings. Can't say I'm at all surprised. We all knew after ME2 the writers were on a major "everything has to be totally grimdark" kick. These ending are about what I expected, throw away all previous choices and give an option that makes everybody feel bad. Pretty much exactly what I was expecting.

[Foolsfolly]

Farbautisonn wrote...

cpolisch wrote...
/snip.

/agree.

People are PO'd, and there is no olive branch (sofar) despite the explicit statement by a lead that this would be a game that would satisfy the players.

For me, its not so much the endings. Its the way they were executed. They were done to leave basically only the promise of dispair for pretty much any and all NPC's we have vested 5 years of emotions in. Hell, even "Schindlers list" left us with more hope than this. It seemed rushed, it seemed as if the writers or the devs or both didnt have a clear vision of where they wanted this to end so they left us with what they had. Nothing. And to support that notion I present that the ingame logic and consistensy is bollocked all to hell in the final 10 minutes. Worse than in the Intro and that sucked pretty bad as it were.

As for further games in the franchise... Not interested if this is the level of storytelling I can expect.

I think that's part of the problem with the Reapers.

If they stayed at the power level we saw in ME1 then there's no defeating them without a deus ex machina. People were saying that for years, I remember whole threads begging BioWare not to use some plot device that kills the Reapers.

And I'm sure they didn't want to do that. But if the rag-tag fleets Shepard gathers can defeat all the Reapers... then they're not the threat they made them out to be.

I think they could have, and should have, gone with the Reapers not being as big of a threat. That their greatest weapons were subterfuge: indoctrination, surprise attack on the Citadel, working through intermediaries. And then through the sacrifices of the Prothean race and Commander Shepard and the Normandy crew the Reapers are forced to fight a battle in a manner they are not accostumed to. It'd be on more equal footing.

Still crazy powerful fleets of sapient war ships. very tough bastards. But with the right choices in ME1 and ME2 and depending on the size of your army and your intelligence/charisma/skill you should have defeated the Reapers in out right combat. Even if most endings involve terrible costs, there should have been an out-right victory ending (or two for Paragon and Renegades).

It's not hard to think of how to end this series.