165 réponses à ce sujet

[Ginnerben]

Brunopolis wrote...

Yes the gameplay is flawed. Anybody that denies this is a fool.

What are you missing in this encounter? MAGES. Seriously, just take Wynn and Morigann with you and any sort of CC will make this battle an absolute cake walk. Not only are mages the most powerful class in the dmg and CC department(why have a tank when you can just remove your enemies from combat?) but they are great healers as well.

I just love how everybody here brags about how "easy" it was when really all they did was just spam AoE(whether it CC AoE or just dmg AoE) with mages. WOW ABSOLUTE GENIUS!!!

Seriously, mages have so many ridiculously overpowered spells it makes the game a joke. Cone of Cold, Fireball, Blood Wound, Shimmering Shield, Sleep, Petrify, Crushing Prison, Blizzard, Force Field, etc.

Is this a great game? Yes...the story is absolutely fantastic. However, the gameplay is seriously lacking due to the hideous imbalances that force you to either go for a mage-fest strat or drop the difficulty immensely. Fun...so my difficulty is solely based on the quantity of mages I have in my party.

Weirdly enough, I'm managing fine on Hard without any Mages.  I only get into difficulty when I encounter something where I have limited health pots.  

That fight was probably the easiest I've had in a long while.  Lelliana instagibbed the mage (Arrow of Slaying FTW) and I destroyed everyone else in combat. 

Saying its only possible with Mages is saying that you should leave it on Normal/Easy.  

[adam_nox]

shut up with the mage idiocy. The biggest mage aoe spells can only cover 1/3 of the enemies in this encounter due to their positioning.



I went in with just myself as a mage my second go around, I have no big aoe. I didn't force field anyone. But because the rest of my team wasn't a bunch of spellcasting ******, I took the encounter out without a sweat.



First time I played it, I had morrigan, the dog, leilana, and myself a mage and it was an absolute nightmare. Mages aren't the key, warriors are. The dog is a war dog, but he's no warrior.

[Beerfish]

Brunopolis wrote...

Yes the gameplay is flawed. Anybody that denies this is a fool.

What are you missing in this encounter? MAGES. Seriously, just take Wynn and Morigann with you and any sort of CC will make this battle an absolute cake walk. Not only are mages the most powerful class in the dmg and CC department(why have a tank when you can just remove your enemies from combat?) but they are great healers as well.

I just love how everybody here brags about how "easy" it was when really all they did was just spam AoE(whether it CC AoE or just dmg AoE) with mages. WOW ABSOLUTE GENIUS!!!

Seriously, mages have so many ridiculously overpowered spells it makes the game a joke. Cone of Cold, Fireball, Blood Wound, Shimmering Shield, Sleep, Petrify, Crushing Prison, Blizzard, Force Field, etc.

Is this a great game? Yes...the story is absolutely fantastic. However, the gameplay is seriously lacking due to the hideous imbalances that force you to either go for a mage-fest strat or drop the difficulty immensely. Fun...so my difficulty is solely based on the quantity of mages I have in my party.

The flaw in this regard is not having enemy AI go after mages as a top priority.  spells and abilites like threaten that draw fire to fighters is a bit of gibbing.

I personally go after any enemy mage as a top priority for my best fighters and if the enemy had that tactic it might even things out a bit at lower levels.  Higher difficulty can still be a problem with friendly fire but I do agree a couple of mages makes things easier in most fights.

In any case I have not played 1 game ever where the balance was perfect in my mind between fighters, mages, high level, low level.

[Dasim4]

I find it humorous that anyone would consider the game flawed simply because they can't manage to get through a certain fight. It's humorous because they're blaming the game instead of considering the fact that maybe they aren't playing correctly. Yea it's always someone else's fault if things go wrong isn't it? To be honest that whole philosophy is a huge problem in todays society. Blame your own inadequacies on someone, or something, else. Seriously there's nothing wrong with the game in this regard. The OP just hasn't figured out how to play the game properly at this point.

[Corvus Black]

that zevran ambush reminded me of planescape: torment. there was a woman in the hive just like this and you could understand that she is leading you to an ambush if you were intelligent enough(15 or more i think)

[Magic Zarim]

Most important: Positioning.

#1 Take control of your mage (you must have at least one with you, you're supposed to use them) and run up right to the enemy mage and Cone of Cold him.

#2 Everyone should now be under cover from the debris, have everyone pound the mage if you haven't killed it while controlling a mage of your own.

#3 Gank Zevran, meanwhile use your mages for crowdcontrol, stunning them,

#4 Mob up the remaining melees

#5 Disable traps and go finish the archers.

#6 Loot Zevran
There you go on a silver platter. Positioning is the key, spend the initial seconds of combat to get into a better position asap. This means find cover from ranged fire if possible at all. Secondly, send in your deadliest character to take out any enemy mages. That's it.

As for mages being so powerful.. Have you guys ever thought of the fact that with many encounters you're seriously outnumbered? You're supposed to use mages to mob up bunches at a time. Friendly fire makes it actually challenging if you don't learn how to set up your party (and use 'hold' mode to keep them where you put them) to create room to actually use damaging AoE.

On normal difficulty, with two mages in your party, the game feels just that.. normal difficulty, nothing too special. Have to be tactical enough to one shot encounters, but when I spent a fight in pauze mostly because I love micromanaging my party to victory I might as well have wiped 10 bumrushes instead.

Modifié par Magic Zarim, 27 novembre 2009 - 06:55 .

[DragonRageGT]

blargh... go watch the movie!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Beerfish wrote...

The flaw in this regard is not having enemy AI go after mages as a top priority.

I wouldn't object to AI going after mages first, as long as there was some predictable means the enemies used to identify mages.  They shouldn't just know who the mages are.

[Milrand]

Brunopolis wrote...

Yes the gameplay is flawed. Anybody that denies this is a fool.

What are you missing in this encounter? MAGES. Seriously, just take Wynn and Morigann with you and any sort of CC will make this battle an absolute cake walk. Not only are mages the most powerful class in the dmg and CC department(why have a tank when you can just remove your enemies from combat?) but they are great healers as well.

I just love how everybody here brags about how "easy" it was when really all they did was just spam AoE(whether it CC AoE or just dmg AoE) with mages. WOW ABSOLUTE GENIUS!!!

Seriously, mages have so many ridiculously overpowered spells it makes the game a joke. Cone of Cold, Fireball, Blood Wound, Shimmering Shield, Sleep, Petrify, Crushing Prison, Blizzard, Force Field, etc.

Is this a great game? Yes...the story is absolutely fantastic. However, the gameplay is seriously lacking due to the hideous imbalances that force you to either go for a mage-fest strat or drop the difficulty immensely. Fun...so my difficulty is solely based on the quantity of mages I have in my party.

I'm not going to deny that the game has flaws, every game does. However, this post sounds like pure QQ to me. Mages are just as much required as warriors are. If you don't have a warrior, you don't have a tank, therefore your party is screwed. Each class plays its own part. If I have a cleric in another game, am I going to complain because I require rogues to do DPS? Heck no, because groups are about variety and each class playing its part.

Admittedly, mages do seem viable whichever their playstle, unlike warriors. A 2h warrior buff is definitely needed. A mage, on the otherhand, can spec for healing, damage, or control and do well in all three. Are they ridiculously overpowered? Perhaps, perhaps not. If all three types of mages work, then I would view them as functional. Warriors, on the otherhand, are dysfunctional seeing as how not all of their playstyles work adequately. And, while I have not bothered to spec into Arcane Warrior, I'd like to remind you that I'm referring to mages in general, not a specific specialization.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I disagree. You don't need a tank. I've played a fair amount with 3 Mages and a Rogue.

[OgrynFlesh]

Not read the whole thingie, but anyone else notice that the mage in the Zevran ambush is *completely* immune to both stuns and knockdowns. Actually says immune.



Still, I always go for her first. Maybe I blame her a little for the trickery...

[aarlev]

Didn't have any problems with that fight either on normal (lvl 10ish). Don't even remember it as being challenging. Try using different tactics. Getting your whole party to attack one enemy at the time usually works for me. Start with the most powerful enemy, and leave the archers till last. Also utilize all your skills/spells etc. It's definitely not impossible. If you really can't beat it, then you have the option of the easy difficulty, so you can't really say that the game is flawed.

[aarlev]

Didn't have any problems with that fight either on normal (lvl 10ish). Don't even remember it as being challenging. Try using different tactics. Getting your whole party to attack one enemy at the time usually works for me. Start with the most powerful enemy, and leave the archers till last.



Also utilize all your skills/spells etc. It's definitely not impossible. If you really can't beat it, then you have the option of the easy difficulty, so you can't really say that the game is flawed.

[DragonRageGT]

OgrynFlesh wrote...

Not read the whole thingie, but anyone else notice that the mage in the Zevran ambush is *completely* immune to both stuns and knockdowns. Actually says immune.

Still, I always go for her first. Maybe I blame her a little for the trickery...

Yeah, immune to knockdown she was... but still took me 0,5ms to kill her in the movie I linked above (Nightmare diff). Stonefist didn't dropped her but did 42 dmg and Leliana got her with a 181 dmg arrow hit!

Then 4 frozen thugs in a well used CoC, ice cubes flying everywhere, only Zev left, down very fast, 4 archers far away, a few traps on the way and a slit throat to make him pay.

Modifié par RageGT, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:21 .

[Scar9533]

I find this fight hard if I do not CC the mage ASAP. The second it starts I pause and throw Force-Field on the mage cause I always get chain lightning if I don't (Level doesnt change it for me and its a constant thing. not sure if it is for everyone).



After CC on mage its just a smack down. If you are a rogue or DW/2-H warrior just position yourself near the mage so when that CC drops you can bury her.



One thing you can do if the archers are gutting you is just run over there and kill them while leaving your party to cleanup the melee. Just watch out for the traps



It isnt a really hard fight. The main thing is the mage chain lightning the second the fight starts because it will bounce around between your party and sometimes kill one maybe even two of them.

[StupidWiz]

I've never lost to that battle, my tactic was kill the bloody mage first, then kick zevran's ass next, clean up the melee units left and then go for those sneaky archers, beware of traps that's positioned in the way to the archers..



the point is that "innocent" mage has to be killed first, the rest is not really significant (except if you count Zevran's Death Mark to be really dangerous =/ )