12 réponses à ce sujet

[Monsuna]

I did some tests with haste and found something odd. When using a bow or crossbow my attack speed was reduced by haste, as a warrior (not tested as a rogue). My attack speed was infact about 35% slower. I swapped right away to dual wield to troubleshoot and then haste worked as it should on and off.

edit:
Ok, I've been doing some more structured testing, mainly with a crossbow (since I happened to have one clean and one with rapid aim). For all tests I used a warrior. The numbers may all be +-0.5sec due to my manual timing, reflexes, human error or what not. When testing attack speed while already engaged I timed between first and 6th shot going off, or 5 shots if you will.

White Crossbow:
Time to initiate an attack - 2.4s
Time to initiate an attack with Haste - 3s
5 shots - 14.5s
5 shots with Haste - 18s
5 shots with Rapid shot - 9.5s (probably cap)
5 shots with Rapid shot and Haste - 12.5s
5 shots with Rapid shot and ranged mastery - 9.5s
5 shots with AIM - 21.5s
5 shots with AIM and Haste - 25.5s

Crossbow with Rapid Aim enchantment:
Time to initiate an attack - 2.1s
Time to initiate an attack with Haste - 2.8s
5 shots - 13s
5 shots with Haste - 17s
5 shots with Rapid shot - 9.5s
5 shots with Rapid shot and Haste - 9.5s
5 shots with AIM - 20s
5 shots with AIM and Haste - 24s

Conclusions:
*First off it seems the cap at 30% faster attack is true. Only way to get there, with a crossbow atleast, is rapid shot.
*Using Haste for an archer seems to yield worse results under any circumstance. There's an odd number though that suggests you can get around the penalty under a very specific circumstance of having a crossbow with "rapid aim" as well as using rapid shot and the party being hasted. I have to re-test that number though, cause it goes against all the other ones...
* AIM is very... unimpressive. Even with a "rapid aim" weapon you don't fire faster than about once every 4 seconds. 4 seconds is a LONG time in DAO.
* Rapid AIM enchantment seems to give an overall 10% speed increase .
* My initial test suggests that things would work similar with a bow, especially the weird haste penalty.

This is NOT fact. This is my very limited personal testings using a stopwatch against a disabled foe. I would love input, prove me right, prove me wrong, whatever, I want information. Just don't quote some wiki because there's to much misinformation about as it is.

Modifié par Monsuna, 27 novembre 2009 - 06:05 .

[viewtif]

Did you have Rapid Shot on? Haste (spell) + Haste (from talent) = slower. The same thing happens with Momentum. It's a bug.

[vhatever]

.9 second attack speed with a bow??? Huh? I don't believe that for .1 seconds.

[Monsuna]

vhatever wrote...

.9 second attack speed with a bow??? Huh? I don't believe that for .1 seconds.

Sorry about that. Forgot I was doing less shots for that test. The correct time would be double.
Either way the result is the same, about 35% slower attack speed. To answer the first reply
I did not use rapid shot. I tested rapid shot also and it worked..even if the speed increase was poor imo.

Anyway, this is very easy to test with the console, can someone confirm or deny?

Modifié par Monsuna, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:11 .

[Monsuna]

I hope the thread being so far down is the reason no one replies because this is pretty significant if you ask me. Surely someone must have tested this?

[Monsuna]

added more info in OP, bumping this up past a few whinethreads...

[Amioran]

Instead of taking seconds that just makes for silly testings it's much better to see the toolset for judge how mechanics of Rapid Shot and Rapid Aim works:

Crossbows have a default aim of 0.8
Longbows have a defaul aim of 0.3
Shortbows have a default aim of 0.2

Rapid Aim reduces the time to aim of 0.3
Rapid Shot reduces the time to aim of -0.05 for every point of dexterity after 10, to a max of -1 (-2 with Master Archer).

To summarize: the ranged weapon that benefits the most for rapid aim/rapid shot is the crossbow, since aim cannot go lower than 0.0. This mean that for example a Longbow with Rapid Aim doesn't get any benefit at all from Rapid Shot.

A crossbow with Rapid Aim, Rapid Shot with high dexterity and Master Archer can have Aim reduced to 0.0 (not counting talents used), in theory, barring naturally hard coded restrictions (have to test it, and it's difficult to do since xbows require both high dex and high str). IMO the best way to make archery better would be to make Aim much better than it is since with high level longbows (that all have Rapid Aim) Rapid Shot doesn't do anything at all.

So the decrease in percentual of Rapid Shot for rate of fire depends on the weapon: for a crossbow the maximum is 80%, for a longbow 30%, for a shortbow 20%. With Rapid Aim on the ranged weapon the amount decrease of 30%.

Higher attack rate doesn't do anything at all to ranged attacks. Momentum that is only less attack rate, for example, is tied to melee weapons only. Haste however reduces also aim of -0.25, almost the same as having Rapid Aim on a ranged weapon.

So your tests are faulty (as obvious).

Modifié par Amioran, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:16 .

[Monsuna]

Amioran wrote...

Instead of taking seconds that just makes for silly testings it's much better to see the toolset for judge how mechanics of Rapid Shot and Rapid Aim works

Explain how it is silly to test what actually happens in the game rather than just looking in a toolset or in a wiki?
My tests are consistent and for the most part they only confirmed what you found in the toolset. There are still some terms to sort out though, and some of the things you quote from the toolset doesn't matter ingame if hardcoded things and bugs are present. Infact it makes it pretty useless to refer to it when trying to make a build decision.

To simplify the results, what my testing showed was that when actually shooting an enemy in practical combat, the time to fire was never reduced by more than about 30% with the crossbow. They also showed that a crossbow with "Rapid Aim" on it, did not achieve this. Just tested again with everything possible: master archer with 50 dex, crossbow with rapid aim, rapid shot activated - same cap.

So the decrease in percentual of Rapid Shot for rate of fire depends on the weapon: for a crossbow the maximum is 80%, for a longbow 30%, for a shortbow 20%. With Rapid Aim on the ranged weapon the amount decrease of 30%.

I'll buy that that's the theory behind it, but it doesn't work like that when I tested. Not at all, even if some file sais it "should".

So your tests are faulty (as obvious).

Exactly how are my tests and conclusions faulty? Maybe from a devs perspective they are faulty, to me playing the game they are very much real. I'm also waiting for someone to explain why Haste lowers my speed with no other buffs (bow and x-bow), preferably by someone actually testing it ingame themselves. The haste thing is actually what made me start testing. I knew haste+momentum was bugged, but not this.

[FlatCat]

I noticed this effect just the other the day.  With bows it effects them even without rapid shot on using a bow that has rapid aim.  I have not tried it on a bow without rapid aim.  I did notice on my warrior archer with a dragonthorn crossbow that does not have rapid aim but with rapid shot on there are no adverse effects.  I did notice though that when haste is on the bow users damage display on their character sheet goes up but it doesn't appear to effect actual damage.

[IDSmoker]

Does anyone know how (or IF) this has changed with the v1.02 patch?

[-ExO-DuS-]

I am a rogue archer with the Far Song bow, and Haste does indeed make my attack speed MUCH slower. I had Wynne take it out of her tactics immediately, which sucks because I basically wasted a talent point on it now.

[WillieStyle]

What exactly is the attack speed penalty from Aim?

[Mister Pickles]

As a fellow investigator of this stuff, I can vouch that most of Monsuna's tests were correct.



In terms of explanation, here is a wiki link that is consistent with the tests in this thread:



http://dragonage.wik...tack_Speed_Bugs



I can't guarantee this is correct, but there seems to be consensus across multiple threads/sites. Shale's Rock Mastery is listed as a workaround.



I've also read some information suggesting the Warrior's Precise Striking is a workaround as well.