126 réponses à ce sujet

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Yeah, what everyone else said about Samara particularly mentioning that her three daughters were the only ones in existence.

But, there are a bunch of small discrepancies. In the Shadow Broker you can read a transmission that says Felare is 49, but in Mass Effect 3 Samara hasn't seen her in centuries for instance.

I just assumed it was Justicar oath impeding her honesty.

 

That conversation is Samara informing her daughters that she's becoming a Justicar to hunt down their sister. Dectective Anaya says Samara has been a Justicar for "three of your lifetimes". That transmission is centuries old. It's probably the last contact Falere had with her mother. No discrepancy there.

[SwobyJ]

Okay, let's get this straight, the monastery's existence IS NOT a retcon. Yes, Samara says there are only three A-Y but there are several references in ME2 to there being more including the codex itself.

 

Now exactly why Samara would be under the impression there are only three A-Y when as a Justicar she should know that isn't true is the question here.

 

The 3 she has are the only ones who are active AY. The rest are genetic potentials, found rather early and put into a monastery for their and others' safety. Rila and Falere did not act on their urges, but Morinth thrived on it.

 

This does make Samara very special. Three AY children, all 3 active, implies imo that her line is VERY 'tainted' with the 'affliction'. Quite rare, due to lowered asari intraspecies mating and increased control methods.

[Han Shot First]

Okay, let's get this straight, the monastery's existence IS NOT a retcon. Yes, Samara says there are only three A-Y but there are several references in ME2 to there being more including the codex itself.

 

Now exactly why Samara would be under the impression there are only three A-Y when as a Justicar she should know that isn't true is the question here.

 

I always chalked that up to probably being a snafu that came about because of multiple writers. One wanted to make it extremely rare, another didn't, and somehow it was missed that what the two had wrote contradicted the other.

[Zubi Fett]

Actually, the quote Samara says is, "As far as I know, only three exist. Two chose a life of seclusion. The third ran." Samara only knows about the existence of three Ardat-Yakshi because she personally knows three of them.

 

 

I also remember her saying something along the line that she either hadn't visited her daughters since taking her oaths or something along that line with a specific time like a few hundred years since the youngest escaped. So if she didn't visit the place then it is unlikely she would know the current number since the Asari want to keep quiet about them.

Don't have a reference to this however as its taken from memory so might be wrong.

Correct,

 

I was thinking on the "as far as I know" and I was looking for a comment who already said it.

But I did not come to realize what you say Kazehito. And in fact, I'm pretty sure that at some point on the game she says she hasn't see them since they chose to seclude.

[KeraWildmane]

My understanding is that on the AY spectrum, only Samara's daughters cause enough neurological damage to instantly kill their partners. Other AY individuals would cause temporary, permanent mild-to-moderate, or permanent moderate-to-severe damage without causing immediate death. The asari with PTSD in Huerta Memorial implies in her conversation that one of her squad-mates may have been on the AY spectrum without having to be in a monastery. It's possible that, while only those who who cause permanent damage must live in monasteries, all ardat-yakshi can be made banshees.

[AlexMBrennan]

The 3 she has are the only ones who are active AY. The rest are genetic potentials, found rather early and put into a monastery for their and others' safety. Rila and Falere did not act on their urges, but Morinth thrived on it.

The other two daughters are kept at that monastery, so by your logic Samara should have reported just a single AY

[Obadiah]

Can you change Morinth at all in ME2 if you recruit her? Samara's mission seems like it was written to give some sort of sympathy to the Ardat Yakshi. They're described in a manner similar to vampires, and imprisoned for what they are; however I can find no redeeming quality to Morinth when she is finally encountered at all. Other than the lulz, I can't tell what the point of the choosing between Samara and Morinth is.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The point of recruiting Morinth is to unlock Dominate.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Can you change Morinth at all in ME2 if you recruit her? Samara's mission seems like it was written to give some sort of sympathy to the Ardat Yakshi. They're described in a manner similar to vampires, and imprisoned for what they are; however I can find no redeeming quality to Morinth when she is finally encountered at all. Other than the lulz, I can't tell what the point of the choosing between Samara and Morinth is.

 

I have no idea either. It certainly is one of the more questionable decisions made during development.

[shodiswe]

It's also possible that there are a lot more AY's than Samara knows about, the Asari government doesn't want the galaxy to know about them.

There are billions or trillions of Asari, ofcourse they are spending time with each other every now and then, and ofcourse AY'äs happen, but people don't want to talk about their family tragedies and the government wants to keep the lid on.

[Eterna]

Samara said three that she knew of. 

[Eterna]

Shepard: You said this is genetic. How many children do you have?
Samara: Three. And three Ardat-Yakshi are in existence today. It is as it sounds.

Quoted word-for-word, directly from the scene in ME2.

 

That could mean the following though.

 

"How many children do you have?"

 

"Three, and thus three ardat Yakshi exist"

 

It doesn't have to mean only three, just that as a result of Samaras genetics three exist today. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Asari treat the lesser form as a medical condition. A pureblood can probably get checked and have the progress stopped before reaching matron stage. Come on, they've got to have a test and treatment, but they remain sterile. The thing is, there's probably a stigma attached so few get tested, and thus when it manifests at matron stage, it's too late for the least benign treatment and the remaining treatment probably blocks all biotics or they end up in the monastery. The lethal form, like Samara's daughters, is probably extremely rare.

 

However, Samara being a justicar, seems to be very naive about this given that the justicars are the ones who bring in the AYs

[SporkFu]

Can you change Morinth at all in ME2 if you recruit her? Samara's mission seems like it was written to give some sort of sympathy to the Ardat Yakshi. They're described in a manner similar to vampires, and imprisoned for what they are; however I can find no redeeming quality to Morinth when she is finally encountered at all. Other than the lulz, I can't tell what the point of the choosing between Samara and Morinth is.

I don't think Morinth wants to be changed. She's addicted to killing people and enjoys the hunt too much to ever stop. My opinion is that, in the same way she pretends to be Samara, if she ever let you try to change her she'd be just playing along in order to survive. Really, she's young enough that if it came down to it she could just sit back and wait for everyone on the Normandy to die... except maybe Grunt. 

[SwobyJ]

Can you change Morinth at all in ME2 if you recruit her? Samara's mission seems like it was written to give some sort of sympathy to the Ardat Yakshi. They're described in a manner similar to vampires, and imprisoned for what they are; however I can find no redeeming quality to Morinth when she is finally encountered at all. Other than the lulz, I can't tell what the point of the choosing between Samara and Morinth is.

 

There is no redemption. Some beings are beyond any redemption, with no wants but to kill for the thrill of killing, by itself.

 

If you use her, it's not to change her. It's to have her as a tool, to facilitate your fight. In the RP sense, while Morinth may be a more dangerous being... well, she's a more dangerous being - whereas Samara is both tied down and unpredictable due to her code. You know exactly where you stand with Morinth, and can execute her if necessary.

 

My RacistShep will pick Morinth unless he doesn't pass the persuasion check (I'll go with the moment). He just wants powerful aliens. He won't reject them, but he won't love em. If Morinth claims to be a genetic destiny and can control organic minds, that RacistShep will consider that to be more useful when, you know, fighting the organic-formed Collectors (they are made of tech, but artificial organic tech). Whatever happens afterward is not the concern.

 

I believe Morinth IS outright 'stronger' than Samara overall, so that's what the decision is about.

[von uber]

It's sort of implied in 3 that justicars are AY hunters, which doesn't tie in too well with what samara says in 2.

[Ryriena]

I didn't think it was implied, but I could be wrong. Justicars seem too be the police force for Thessa.

[Sequin]

Samara leaves the door open for more AY. An exact quote: "As far as I know, only three [Ardat-Yakshi] exist today." Her phrasing of that statement shows that she is not speaking in universal terms. She also says (just before this) that the Asari "don't wish this defect to be widely known." It is therefore possible she was only diverging what she had to (this dialogue was early and she might not have trusted divulging anymore than she had to aboard a Cerberus ship...it is at the end of this first exchange she makes the statement "there are three AY in existence today. It is as it sounds." Information on Samara was likely already known by The Illusive Man and if his AI was listening in she could be holding him off from investigating further.)

On top of this, she mentions that there "may" be more AY during dialogue aboard the SR2 later on. This comes up if you ask her what her plans are after you earn her loyalty and defeat Morinth. Samara says that injustice still exists and "perhaps even more Ardat-Yakshi." This is AFTER she trusts Shepard, but still on Cerberus's ship (not away from prying ears). Could she be telling Shep something? A clue? A hint?

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[justafan]

It's sort of implied in 3 that justicars are AY hunters, which doesn't tie in too well with what samara says in 2.

 

It is more or less confirmed that killing AY is part of the code, if they are not in a monastery that is.  Whether they actively hunt them down when it's not personal, I don't know, but I never really saw the Justicars as a group that responds to code violations, not one that seeks them out.

 

I didn't think it was implied, but I could be wrong. Justicars seem too be the police force for Thessa.

 

I'm pretty sure they are not a police force.  They are more akin to Asari space spectres with a religious element and very very strict rules.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I didn't think it was implied, but I could be wrong. Justicars seem too be the police force for Thessa.

 

They aren't the police force of Thessia. They're a monastic order of Hi-powered Asari that punish the wicked according to the ancient laws of the Asari.

[themikefest]

Its cool if you have Morinth with you on the collector base. She acts, looks and sounds exactly like her mother. I also noticed when talking with her on the ship she always mentions she wants to get to know Shepard more.

[Ryriena]

They aren't the police force of Thessia. They're a monastic order of Hi-powered Asari that punish the wicked according to the ancient laws of the Asari.

I would consider that a type of law enforcement often like the Reglious police in Sudia Arabia.


Yes they call these type of people police officers in Sudia Arabia. They go by Islamic Reglious law or Shraia Law.

So in retrospect, they're like C-sec on the citadel but they base their rules on the Reglious code they add hear too.

[AlexMBrennan]

Go replay Me2 - at no point does Samara say "as far as I know", you have merely invented that to be able to pretend that there is no retcon.

[Ryriena]

Go replay Me2 - at no point does Samara say "as far as I know", you have merely invented that to be able to pretend that there is no retcon.

Yeah, she does not say that in those terms.

[Sequin]

Go replay Me2 - at no point does Samara say "as far as I know", you have merely invented that to be able to pretend that there is no retcon.

I literally wrote down her words while listening to her say them as I made my post.