84 réponses à ce sujet

[Kitten Tactics]

 I've voiced this in a few threads, but I'm hoping other will be able to chime in on it here.

Why would Shepard ever go along with the Catalyst's little game?

Sovereign told Shepard that resisting the cycle was futile.  (S)He tells Sovereign "If you won't give us a chance, I WILL find a way to stop you."

Harbinger tells Shepard that the reaper invasion, and our destruction, is imminent.  Shepard says "Stuff it, I'm coming for you and your friends.

The council tells Shepard that the reapers don't exist.  Ah yes, "Reapers", we have dismissed that claim.  Shepard tells them they are wrong and with or without their help (s)he will find a way.

The Catalyst tells Shepard that synthetics and organics will always destroy each other.  And even though Shepard has (depending on your choices) multiple pieces of evidence to the contrary, (s)he just goes along and picks one of the three horrible options without hesitation.  Why would Shepard bow to this character introduced one minute prior?

Shepard will never stress the odds, be intimidated, be forced, pushed around, or deflated.  Shepard will always find a way.  

As I have said before, Shepard would never do this.

Ever.

Modifié par Kitten Tactics, 10 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[bubs]

Well, that's exactly what bothered me about the ending. It seemed to me Shepard gave up, and that's not what s/he does. Whether you're paragon or renegade or even a mixture of the two, Shepard never shows signs of giving up against the Reapers.

[John Locke N7]

agreed =/

[MattFini]

Agree completely. My FemShep stood there baffled for a good ten minutes because the options were such garbage.

[Lmaoboat]

The real Shepard would've said, "I've had it with your duplicitous allegations!" and punched the kid in the face.

[Penguins]

I think they put waaay too much faith in us sympathizing with the kid. In reality, most gamers see kid-as-avatar-of-space-god as "obvious creepy child ploy to trick me."

And if they wanted to subvert that trope, they needed to do a lot more groundwork.

Modifié par Penguins, 10 mars 2012 - 06:36 .

[Bachi1230]

Yeah it took me 10 minutes of shooting my gun at the guardian before I picked destroy because it gave me a chance to at least live.

[John Locke N7]

Lmaoboat wrote...

The real Shepard would've said, "I've had it with your duplicitous allegations!" and punched the kid in the face.

lol, this

[DocStone]

 To be honest, it is an insult to our intelligence that hey thought we would just accept this change in Shepard and not stop and ask "WTF?"

Posted this in another thread:

I think the main problem with the endings is that they can't be explained.
At the end Shepard comes face to face with his/her ultimate enemy - the StarChild. This entity it is explained is the mind behind the Reapers, their creator, their God in a way. This entity believes that there is a danger in every civilisation that they will create a race of AIs that will destroy the galaxy, bringing chaos to the order. To stop this happening this entity has wiped out every single sentient species the galaxy has ever seen over millennia, turning them into the Reapers, controlling them, bringing order to their existence.

This entity is ultimately responsible for the deaths of an unimaginable amount of intelligent life forms because it believes that Organic and Synthetic life forms can never get along. this entity is trying as we speak to it, to wipe out everything that Shepard holds dear - his friends, his love, his home, everything, even Shepard himself.
Faced with this entity, this creature, what does Shepard do? For the first time in his existence he gives in. He does not argue, he does not threaten, he ignores every single part of his being and agrees with his ultimate foe that the extinction of sentient life is OK because of something that may happen. He meekly accepts the choices laid before him for the first time in his life and asks no questions, offers no counter argument. 

Why that happened there can be no explanation for. Unless the writers were drunk, in a rush to finish things off or just really bad at endings because they nailed every single other part of the story.

[tommythetomcat]

It's funny, I've been full blown paragon on my main Shep throughout all of ME... But when I got there it seemed like a failure to do anything other than destroy the Repears so I chose the Renegade option.

Maybe you are supposed to choose it because it's the only ending that has you "wake up" in the rubble of what I will just assume is where Harbinger cooked you up.

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 10 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Aleka]

Lmaoboat wrote...

The real Shepard would've said, "I've had it with your duplicitous allegations!" and punched the kid in the face.

^ Yes ! Thank you.
Totally agree with the OP.

[Cosmar]

OP, I agree wholeheartedly.

Throughout the whole trilogy, my Shepard was a champion of free will, choice, and cooperation. None of the possible endings fit even remotely with my Shep's worldview. Destroy the reapers, but also destroy all AI life, including the Geth, whom I'd been fighting so hard for this whole time, and EDI, whom I helped persuade to think like a human and become a "real person"? Hell no! OR, control the reapers, just like me archnemesis the Illusive Man had planned on all along, and which I'd been fighting against? Fighting against the notion that we could play god? Hell no! OR, finally, merge synthetic and organic life. This seemed the most tame for my Shepard, but it still went against his mantra of Free Will and Choice. Who am I to play god and force this new existence on everyone without their consent? I was very depressed and eventually chose the destruction option.

Yes, this was the hardest decision in the trilogy, but for all the wrong reasons, with none of them letting you feel happy and satisfied in the end...

[Kia Purity]

My Shepard did not come back from the dead just to deal with this crap. She's going to kick the crap out of that kid because damnit, she wants the galaxy to be safe and to be with her Kaidan. >:|

[MPSai]

Yeah, Shepard's so out of character at the end this leads people to think s/he was indoctrinated. There should have been a fourth option to flip off the Catalyst, contact EDI about an alternative that saves everyone and bones the Reapers, and then Shepard puts on some sunglasses and lights up a cigar while s/he watches the Reapers die.

Okay maybe that's a little over the top.

[movieguyabw]

I agree. But it's more than just the catalyst.

It's the auto-dialogue as well. The notion that all Shepards think the same way about 85% of the time, when each of our Shepards should be as varied and different as we, the players, are.

[Nightshade386]

I agree. I thought at first that I did something wrong, didn't do enough even though the bar was completely green. I was disappointed in myself. But then I did some digging and found out that I didn't screw it up, that's the way it was supposed to end. I felt cheated. For a series that I loved so much to end like that....I don't know. It felt like the ending of a different game got mixed up with mine. My Shepard would not have accepted those false choices at the end, and would have said so. Then he would have moved heaven and earth with his own shear force of will to save everyone and everything he loved. A Paragon/Renegade interrupt at the end to say "No, you don't get to play God with us anymore. We've earned the chance to live as we are," would have made a world of difference. I played the first two games multiple times. Had a character for each class to import. I don't think I'll play this game twice. Not with that ending. I'm that disappointed.

It is, however, a testament to how good the rest of the game, and the series is, that I care this much. But the lack of real choices at the end, for a series where more than any other I've been able to define my own path, is very distressing. If the entire story had been cinematics with no player choice, just "this is our story of Commander Shepard," then I'd have been okay with how it ended. But it wasn't. This was my story. My choices. And to have that ripped away at the end really disappoints me.

[DrowNoble]

This is just one of the many reasons the ending was so bad. So very un-Bioware if you like.

The climatic ending to the Mass Effect trilogy is a long cutscene where you make choices that don't fit with the character we've known for 4+ years and played for 100's of hours. WHY Anderson is the Renegade Ending and Illusive Man is Paragon ending just eludes me.

[DrowNoble]

MPSai wrote...

Yeah, Shepard's so out of character at the end this leads people to think s/he was indoctrinated. There should have been a fourth option to flip off the Catalyst, contact EDI about an alternative that saves everyone and bones the Reapers, and then Shepard puts on some sunglasses and lights up a cigar while s/he watches the Reapers die.

Okay maybe that's a little over the top.

Bioware make that Ending DLC and I'll fork up $10 for it.  Though have to add "sits on beach with <romance option>" to that too.  

[Vasparian]

This kind of asspull ending is what I would expect from some lame ass anime.

[MPSai]

DrowNoble wrote...
 WHY Anderson is the Renegade Ending and Illusive Man is Paragon ending just eludes me.

BECAUSE IT'S DERP DEEP!

There seems to be a trend in games lately to be shades of grey to an obnoxious point. I'm all for shades of grey, but not when it's this ham-handed. 

Modifié par MPSai, 10 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[I_Jedi]

ragewin wrote...

Well, that's exactly what bothered me about the ending. It seemed to me Shepard gave up, and that's not what s/he does. Whether you're paragon or renegade or even a mixture of the two, Shepard never shows signs of giving up against the Reapers.

No. He and every organic in the galaxy got post-traumatic stress disorder at the same time. Even survivors are doomed sicne the doctors are affected too.

[Cosmar]

Nightshade386 wrote...
It is, however, a testament to how good the rest of the game, and the series is, that I care this much. But the lack of real choices at the end, for a series where more than any other I've been able to define my own path, is very distressing. If the entire story had been cinematics with no player choice, just "this is our story of Commander Shepard," then I'd have been okay with how it ended. But it wasn't. This was my story. My choices. And to have that ripped away at the end really disappoints me.

This is exactly how I feel! I have said that if the trilogy were a trilogy of novels, or movies, where we just watched the story unfold for us, that ending would have been beautiful, dramatic, majestic even. But since it's supposed to be *our* story, where we call the shots, being helpless at the end was a real kick in the teeth. And the infuriating thing is that they made the choices and events leading up to it seem to really matter! 

[MPSai]

Cosmar wrote...

This is exactly how I feel! I have said that if the trilogy were a trilogy of novels, or movies, where we just watched the story unfold for us, that ending would have been beautiful, dramatic, majestic even. 

Well no, alot of people would still question the plotholes. Even novels and movies can end stupidly.

[RazorrX]

Bioware gave us the illusion that we had 'our' shepards in the previous two games. You felt like the game was yours and you had control over what you did and said, etc.

This changed with ME3. More and more I was reminded of other games like Splinter Cell Conviction, etc. where you only really control the character in combat and the cutscenes are there to tell the preconceived story. The few times you are given a choice felt like a bone thrown to you.

ME3 has the best gameplay of all the ME games IMO. I think the writing was top notch (except for the overall plot and endings). Just it was no longer 'my' shepard. Every choice I had made previously was basically hand waved away, the plots I had uncovered, the tech I had found, etc. all got thrown away so the game would be a 'perfect' starting point for new players.

[hawat333]

If you payed attention, your opening post's statement is invalid.
Destroying the Reapers destroys all synthetic life. New machines, eventually artificial intelligence will appear after a while. And then, they can learn how to live along.
Yeah, it would be possible now.
But not with the Reapers existing. And the only way to destory them is to destroy all synthetic life. That's not a solution but a side effect of destroying them.