127 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...
It makes me wonder, though, if when we, the community, ask for new endings, we aren't asking for changes in several specific categories. I'm not sure we're articulating it well, if we are. And I might be totally off base. Thoughts?

You might have to clarify. What exactly are you asking about?

[FunstuffofDoom]

Ieldra2 wrote...

FunstuffofDoom wrote...
It makes me wonder, though, if when we, the community, ask for new endings, we aren't asking for changes in several specific categories. I'm not sure we're articulating it well, if we are. And I might be totally off base. Thoughts?

You might have to clarify. What exactly are you asking about?

It was a fragment of a thought that has long since run off somewhere. The best I can say it now, is, the people who didn't like the ending in a bunch of different ways, and maybe we need to be clearer about how those ways are different. Except that doesn't really capture the sentiment, it's really banal, and I think most polls are doing a decent job of being comprehensive.

[Shaigunjoe]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

It's abroken promise, to me. It's the ending of the game. It's the final choice. It's the big one, for all the marbles. This. Is. It. And all the preparation you do across three games. All that work -easily sixty hours, if you're trying for it- amounts to, no cunning plans. You settle for what you can get, and then you die. And civilization, for a time, dies with you. That's not a triumphant win, in my book. That's not pulling one out at the last second- and let's be honest, here. We were all expecting to be able to pull one out at the last second. We all wanted to retire with Liara, and have a quiet, unassuming life with a bunch of blue kids while she data-trades, or lectures at a university, or something. We all wanted a moment where the Council thanks you for your services, hails you as the savior of the galaxy, and then you ride off into the sunset to live happily ever after. Because everything in these games until now has said, this was perfectly possible. Hell, BioWare themselves said this was perfectly possible. And it isn't. Because the writers said so, at the very last minute. That, too, is petty. And, I? I'm bitter. I'm in mourning.

This is just a small take away as you wrote a lot.  But I think you touched on why there may not have been a solid epilouge as there are just way too many possible things to consider, both immediate and far reaching impacts of decisions to fit on a disc, so blame xbox for not having blu-rays (joke).  I read your desired epilouges and I was like, who the hell is Kaiden?  Both narrtively and technically been a hard things to pull off, though maybe they should have given you something.

You also, like most people, are really hung up on the decisions Shep was presented on the citadel.  As has been mention elsewhere, I do not think those are the actual choices given to Shep on the citiadel, instead...for some reason, they are the choices that have lived on in the Shepard legend that was told, even though no one was there to record them.

I actually love the ending more every day, the more I think about it the more possibilities of the impacts of my choices I imagine, so please avoid saying We All want this, or that, as we all most certainly do not.

[Dracowulf]

Okay, seriously?  This was incredibly brilliant and very enjoyable to read.  You're awesome, and I'd give you the biggest high-five in history if I ever saw you.  But goodness... how do I even begin to respond to this?  At bare minimum I can bump this thread up and spread the link around like mad because it deserves to be read.  Widely.

So.
My pitiful nutshell response is ABSO-FRICKIN'-LUTELY, PAL,  PREACH IT.  There wasn't a single thing I disagreed with, I love your ending propositions, and your breakdown of the ending(s) seems very sound and revealing to me.  Respect, respect, respect.

For me, the best part of your whole argument/essay was your description of the endings as "petty," and how BioWare pretty much took the promises they made to us and squashed them (or stabbed them with your favorite proverbial knife).  Everything Mass Effect's story seemed to teach, all the philosophy and story within the universe (and the lessons we felt we should take into ours), the characters, plotlines, and shoot, sheer effort of gameplay on our part toward a resolution that made sense and was worthy of the ME franchise got punted out the airlock.
Anyway - if I keep writing I'll just keep singing your praises.  Definitely neither hyperbole nor a bad thing in this case, but I'm no fan of beating dead horses.  You've really struck gold here, and I think you captured perhaps the biggest picture of why nearly 50k Facebook users and thousands of Mass Effect players worldwide have been up in arms over this whole mess.

As I said, I'm going to spread this around like wildfire, and hope it catches.

Bravo sir, bravo.
- Draco

[FunstuffofDoom]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

Things. If you made it this far, you've probably read it, already,

This is just a small take away as you wrote a lot.  But I think you touched on why there may not have been a solid epilouge as there are just way too many possible things to consider, both immediate and far reaching impacts of decisions to fit on a disc, so blame xbox for not having blu-rays (joke).  I read your desired epilouges and I was like, who the hell is Kaiden?  Both narrtively and technically been a hard things to pull off, though maybe they should have given you something.

You also, like most people, are really hung up on the decisions Shep was presented on the citadel.  As has been mention elsewhere, I do not think those are the actual choices given to Shep on the citiadel, instead...for some reason, they are the choices that have lived on in the Shepard legend that was told, even though no one was there to record them.

I actually love the ending more every day, the more I think about it the more possibilities of the impacts of my choices I imagine, so please avoid saying We All want this, or that, as we all most certainly do not.

That's... that's not enough for me. The idea that, Shepard walked into the Citadel, and we don't know what she did but clearly it was something, so here's our guess? No, it doesn't fly, for me. It'd be like cutting off the Lord of the Rings as Frodo makes that final run towards Mount Doom, and then having Gandalf conclude the trilogy by saying, "And, the ring broke. They must have succeeded, those brave hobbits." Roll credits.

But you make a good point, and that's that a number of people -certainly a significant number- did not mind the endings, and they have good reasons for it. For you, is it just that the literary-device-reveal is acceptable -even incredible- ending, or are there other reasons, too?

[Shaigunjoe]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

That's... that's not enough for me. The idea that, Shepard walked into the Citadel, and we don't know what she did but clearly it was something, so here's our guess? No, it doesn't fly, for me. It'd be like cutting off the Lord of the Rings as Frodo makes that final run towards Mount Doom, and then having Gandalf conclude the trilogy by saying, "And, the ring broke. They must have succeeded, those brave hobbits." Roll credits.

But you make a good point, and that's that a number of people -certainly a significant number- did not mind the endings, and they have good reasons for it. For you, is it just that the literary-device-reveal is acceptable -even incredible- ending, or are there other reasons, too?

Personally, I find the literary device reveal to be incredible, and I am happy to tell you why.  I understand the unreliable narrator is not for everybody, Gene Wolfe uses it in his writing frequently, and oddly enough, except for my engineering friends, nobody else I recommend them to like them.

Anyway, so I think the narrator *switch* happens when you are hit by the harbinger blast.  Mainly because of all the sudden changes in the game that take place immediatly afterward.  Your gun has unlimited ammo, you walk in a straight line, very simplied or cliched dialogue, and you can probably extrapolate some kind of moral from whatever choice Shepard picks (though I haven't tried).  That combined with the Star Gazer scene kinda seals the deal for me on that the citadel scene is what is part of intergalactic lore being told by an old man (or interpreted by a young kid).

So thats why I think the literary device is being used, now I will discuss why I think its awesome.

Coupled with both the Deus Ex and Deus Ex Machina references made in the final me make the connection that Shepard is a figure of importance in human history along hte lines of JC.  Realizing this makes me look at the entire trilogy in a different light.  My decisions are no longer important to the immediate universe; the next time I play Mass Effect Triliogy I will try and understand how my decisions would be interpreted as religous doctrine far, far down the line.  Would seeminly benign courses of action result in galactic wars being waged over different interpretations of my actions.  It's far out there but I don't think its far reaching considering the SG thing at the end.

Many people argue "My Choices don't Matter".  I argue: "My choices matter more than BW could have hoped to explain them all on a disc".

Not to say I don't understand where you are coming from, I do, you would like an epilogue, some closure, and I think you will get it.  I also think they will explain what actually happened in the citadel, maybe a deal was made, or a fight, or something unexpected.  Though sometimes epilogues are not what people want, I've met a number of people wish there wasn't an Harry Potter epilogue.

In conclusion, the mass effect ending made me interpret, extrapolate, read and argue more than any other video game ending in history, and I love it for it.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 21 mars 2012 - 12:14 .

[NekOoNinja]

Thank you for sharing your insights. Wholeheartedly agree.

[FunstuffofDoom]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Personally, I find the literary device reveal to be incredible, and I am happy to tell you why.  I understand the unreliable narrator is not for everybody, Gene Wolfe uses it in his writing frequently, and oddly enough, except for my engineering friends, nobody else I recommend them to like them.

Anyway, so I think the narrator *switch* happens when you are hit by the harbinger blast.  Mainly because of all the sudden changes in the game that take place immediatly afterward.  Your gun has unlimited ammo, you walk in a straight line, very simplied or cliched dialogue, and you can probably extrapolate some kind of moral from whatever choice Shepard picks (though I haven't tried).  That combined with the Star Gazer scene kinda seals the deal for me on that the citadel scene is what is part of intergalactic lore being told by an old man (or interpreted by a young kid).

So thats why I think the literary device is being used, now I will discuss why I think its awesome.

Coupled with both the Deus Ex and Deus Ex Machina references made in the final me make the connection that Shepard is a figure of importance in human history along hte lines of JC.  Realizing this makes me look at the entire trilogy in a different light.  My decisions are no longer important to the immediate universe; the next time I play Mass Effect Triliogy I will try and understand how my decisions would be interpreted as religous doctrine far, far down the line.  Would seeminly benign courses of action result in galactic wars being waged over different interpretations of my actions.  It's far out there but I don't think its far reaching considering the SG thing at the end.

Many people argue "My Choices don't Matter".  I argue: "My choices matter more than BW could have hoped to explain them all on a disc".

Not to say I don't understand where you are coming from, I do, you would like an epilogue, some closure, and I think you will get it.  I also think they will explain what actually happened in the citadel, maybe a deal was made, or a fight, or something unexpected.  Though sometimes epilogues are not what people want, I've met a number of people wish there wasn't an Harry Potter epilogue.

In conclusion, the mass effect ending made me interpret, extrapolate, read and argue more than any other video game ending in history, and I love it for it.

I can dig that, I suppose. I'm an atheist of the "But it doesn't make sense!" breed, so I'm going to have to overcome a kneejerk reaction contrary to your thoughts. But I definitely dig them.

I imagine you've heard it before, but lemme take it from top.

Mass Effect was, for most of its run, a military space opera with an emphasis on diversity, teamwork, and the contrasting effects of pragmatism versus idealism. How did you avoid the suspension of disbelief being shattered when this changed to a creationist-esque folk tale? Do you think, if you'd had one of the endings being suggested on the boards, but then also seen the Stargazer bit at the end, you'd have been equally satisfied?

EDIT: I'd like to say, I'm actually quite fond of Unreliable Narrators, when it's clear enough in advance that that's what happening. Kreia is a large part of why KotOR 2: The Sith Lords is one of my favorite games. It's the shift that gets me, here.

Modifié par FunstuffofDoom, 21 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

It's sad that this guy even had to state the obvious. It should have been blatantly obvious to the writers and decision makers since the beginning.

[Shaigunjoe]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

I can dig that, I suppose. I'm an atheist of the "But it doesn't make sense!" breed, so I'm going to have to overcome a kneejerk reaction contrary to your thoughts. But I definitely dig them.

I imagine you've heard it before, but lemme take it from top.

Mass Effect was, for most of its run, a military space opera with an emphasis on diversity, teamwork, and the contrasting effects of pragmatism versus idealism. How did you avoid the suspension of disbelief being shattered when this changed to a creationist-esque folk tale? Do you think, if you'd had one of the endings being suggested on the boards, but then also seen the Stargazer bit at the end, you'd have been equally satisfied?

EDIT: I'd like to say, I'm actually quite fond of Unreliable Narrators, when it's clear enough in advance that that's what happening. Kreia is a large part of why KotOR 2: The Sith Lords is one of my favorite games. It's the shift that gets me, here.

This is a quote from the intro of the artbook for mass effect 1 CE:

"Mass Effect is not a space opera or a space western.  It is a serious and artful cinematic experience rendered with a unique combination of starkly realistic visuals and hauntingly powerful musical scores" --Casey Hudson

With that in mind, I feel like they always intended ME to be more than a run and gun star wars esque romp.

My suspension of disbelief was never feally effected, as I said before my perspective just changed, I it gave me anew one that I hadn't considered before, and I love that kinda thing.  I blame Obi Wan Kenobi who said "Everything in life depends on a certain point of view"  Give me a reason to replay the entire trilogy with a new perspective on what my choices mean? Yes please!  I don't think this realization would have been as big for me if it was spoon fed, some epilouge where somebody straight old told me "Shepard was more important to the future to the galaxy than anyone possibly imagined" , it would have meant less to me.  When I had the aha moment that the citadel confrontation was not what it seemed, it was fantastic.  If I took the citadel scene at face value...then yes, the ending is as horrible as everybody claims it to be.  I chose not to.

[HBC Dresden]

To OP: philosophy education FTW!

[FunstuffofDoom]

I think it's funny that you mention, well, "A certain point of view" and Cody Hudson, because, well, see all the quote mines on this forum.

My thoughts on the creator's intention versus the audience's expectations typically fall in favor of the creator, but at the same time, I don't think it can be said that BioWare was ignorant of expectations. That the ending blew your mind in a fascinating and revolutory way is wonderful. I envy you. But I can't help but feel, if BioWare was expecting everyone to take the same thing away form this game as you are, well, they were fooling themselves.

[FunstuffofDoom]

HBC Dresden wrote...

To OP: philosophy education FTW!

I know, right? I'm totally not putting off writing a final essay on Aristotle's Metaphysics by lurking on a forum, talkign about a game franchise I love. Nope. No, sirree.

Crap.

[Shaigunjoe]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

I think it's funny that you mention, well, "A certain point of view" and Cody Hudson, because, well, see all the quote mines on this forum.

My thoughts on the creator's intention versus the audience's expectations typically fall in favor of the creator, but at the same time, I don't think it can be said that BioWare was ignorant of expectations. That the ending blew your mind in a fascinating and revolutory way is wonderful. I envy you. But I can't help but feel, if BioWare was expecting everyone to take the same thing away form this game as you are, well, they were fooling themselves.

Yea, I understand, it's a tough pill to swallow. I am a sucker for multiple perspectives. Suikoden III FF VI, Game of Thrones, all works that use that sort of thing (not unreliable narrator).

Here is something else I just though of.  I bet Sheperd is a pretty interesting person, though with the idea of Shepard being me, I'm not a pretty interesting person.  It was nice to kinda step out of Shepard and see what she would look like through the eyes of others.  I can equate that too stepping out of Solid Snake in MGS2 to see what he looked like through the eyes of Raiden.  I like that part of MGS2, the overall story not so much, maybe if I bothered to analyze it as much as I did ME3.  I think it was about media controlling how peope perceive reality?? Wasn't that what Citizen Kane was about?? Ugh...I'll be back, I need to climb out of this rabbit hole and reconsider my choice of pill.[Full circle!]

[HBC Dresden]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

To OP: philosophy education FTW!

I know, right? I'm totally not putting off writing a final essay on Aristotle's Metaphysics by lurking on a forum, talkign about a game franchise I love. Nope. No, sirree.

Crap.

You know, if you want to keep putting off that final essay, I would love some academic criticism on my alternative ending(s) to ME3 (the link is in my sig). See, I finished my final essays already and am currently in that high that occurs right after finishing everything and before the dread of the upcoming and unknown quarter. Although Spring Quarter is usually the best because of the weather...

Modifié par HBC Dresden, 21 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[PeterG1]

This is absolutely the best argument I've read for what much of the community thinks. I wish I would have seen it earlier! Excellent debate, great rhetoric, very well told. Thank you very much for taking the time to share this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: my initial reaction to ME3 was one of a strange but overall enlightening feeling. I wouldn't say that I "liked" it, but I respected it, I guess.

But arguments like these, well told, really make me reflect upon the importance of the game and the ending to us all. While I'm still torn over whether or not the ending I experienced was "good" or I "enjoyed it" I can most certainly understand where you're coming from. Thanks again.

[Big Push]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

This is a quote from the intro of the artbook for mass effect 1 CE:

"Mass Effect is not a space opera or a space western.  It is a serious and artful cinematic experience rendered with a unique combination of starkly realistic visuals and hauntingly powerful musical scores" --Casey Hudson

With that in mind, I feel like they always intended ME to be more than a run and gun star wars esque romp.

That's an interesting quote, because this really means that if we take authorial intent seriously, Mass Effect absolutely failed as a work of art. It failed in the sense that it did not in any way successfully represent its creators' vision.

ME1 and ME2 are without a doubt space operas. Their tone, aesthetics, themes, and plots have almost nothing in common with "high" science fiction like Asimov or Lem and much more in common with Lucas or Roddenberry. The same is true of ME3 until the final moments when things abruptly swerve into strange territory.

[Helmchen2010]

I read through your entire essay - and, honestly, maybe you just found your BA thesis topic - and I can only respond by noting how well-crafted and articulate your analysis is.

I know we - as a group of people bitter and dissatisfied with how Bioware chose to crash its best IP thus far - should be tolerant of those that like or even love the endings.

That said, I honestly cannot fathom how anybody intimately involved with the Mass Effect universe and this entire trilogy in particular could possibly walk away from this ending and feel that it was a proper send off for the player. How???

And, obviously, how Bioware could have thought this was a proper way to end their story is just completely beyond me. It's very, very hard not suspect some form of passive aggression towards the fan base being at work there.

Modifié par Helmchen2010, 21 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Fame-KIllz]

Great post OP.

[beyzend]

not reading all that. Control means Shep becomes one with the Reapers. He is the Reapers.

[FunstuffofDoom]

I read through your entire essay - and, honestly, maybe you just found your BA thesis topic - and I can only respond by noting how well-crafted and articulate your analysis is.

Oddly, I don't have to write a thesis to graduate. In fact, the philosophy portion of my degree's done. I'm just filling in a couple of GenEds here and there, while I wait for my apartment lease to expire.

This is absolutely the best argument I've read for what much of the community thinks. I wish I would have seen it earlier! Excellent debate, great rhetoric, very well told. Thank you very much for taking the time to share this.

I'm glad you liked it. Spread the link! I want more people to tell me I'm incredible! *Preens*

I've said it before and I'll say it again: my initial reaction to ME3 was one of a strange but overall enlightening feeling. I wouldn't say that I "liked" it, but I respected it, I guess.

My initial reaction was similar. I finished the game at midnight, mentioned to my roommates I was done, and killed an hour or two before going to bed. It wasn't until I was half-dreaming at four in the morning that my mind started composing reasons for why things didn't make sense. It wasn't until I was in the shower the next morning that I was actively organizing reasons and ways things didn't match up. It wasn't until I was done shaving that I decided to write it all down, and maybe get some closure. It wasn't until two weeks later that I gave up on that ever happening.

not reading all that. Control means Shep becomes one with the Reapers. He is the Reapers. 

And then John was the demons, is that where you're going with this?

Modifié par FunstuffofDoom, 21 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[FunstuffofDoom]

HBC Dresden wrote...

You know, if you want to keep putting off that final essay, I would love some academic criticism on my alternative ending(s) to ME3 (the link is in my sig). See, I finished my final essays already and am currently in that high that occurs right after finishing everything and before the dread of the upcoming and unknown quarter. Although Spring Quarter is usually the best because of the weather...

I've always been a winter guy at heart. Spring quarter's so fast, and it always ends with a bunch of work and scrambling. Winter's sedate.

So, endings:

First, I really like what you've done with The Illusive Man. Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Planescape: Torment both had sections where the 'boss' encounter was really just a conversation where you defend you philosophy, and there's been some of that in Mass Effect One. Having a full-blown, knockdown, kinetically charged defiant debate for galactic stakes, with both a machine God and the human he's inhabiting, trying to refute one and simultaneously reawaken the other to his humanity? I just had a dialecticgasm.

The endings, themselves, well. They're very comprehensive, from a Paragon perspective. I, personally, wouldn't have much problem with this. I've said before, I'm a Paragon player to the core. I haven't actually, ever, been able to go further than an hour or two into a Renegade playthrough. I get caught up in how unnecessarily dickish Shepard becomes.

It still needs to be said, though. There isn't a Renegade perfect ending, and there should be. In some way, Shepard should be vindicated for choosing practicality over principle. Perhaps -I dunno here. Anyone got numbers on what a perfect Renegade EMS looks like?- Shepard, through sheer, ruthless brutality, assembles a kickass-enough force that Harbinger concludes, based on the current battle (which is going poorly for the Reapers, it's a perfect ending, right?) and the decisions Shepard made to get to it, there's simply no way a synthetic could ever hope to stand up to an organic's ability to fight. Better yet, it use Shepard's calculating methods as a jumping-off point for the realization that Reapers are following inherently contradictory logic. Civilization, following Shepard's example, might even eventually willingly turn themselves into Reaper analogues, in which case the society needs to be protected. That could be cool.

That part aside, I've seen a lot of endings suggested. I seen plenty that tie themselves into the narrative, and into choice, but I don't think I've seen anything that ties itself so well into theme, or so well into consequence.

We should start a cabal of people, pushing our overly-long, high-fallutin', ivory-tower academia onto the masses, so they could understand all the myriad ways Mass Effect Three might've screwed up, but with big, smart-people words. That sounds like a good idea. Dracowulf, you should come to. I'd never leave a LitCrit grad student out in the cold.

[Slash1667]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

To OP: philosophy education FTW!

I know, right? I'm totally not putting off writing a final essay on Aristotle's Metaphysics by lurking on a forum, talkign about a game franchise I love. Nope. No, sirree.

Crap.

Don't worry Funs, I'm putting off writing a research paper on the shift in International Relations between the U.S. and Russia since 1991.

[Wowlock]

I would've said '' simply put'' but this is equisite.

And I agree with you guys. In the end... I feel quite helpless and I never felt like that when I played all 3 of Mass Effect games. Sure there were times like Mordin's sacrifice etc but even those can be changed....but not this ending.

In the end...Bioware decided to pick their '' art vision'' instead of their fans' enjoyment and choices....and that is why they are dealing with the backlash.

And no, I don't think this ending opens ANY kind of Mass Effect sequel for this universe. Sure , we are speculating but not in a good way. And each speculation BW hoped we would do, only hurts them more...

[HBC Dresden]

FunstuffofDoom wrote...

I've always been a winter guy at heart. Spring quarter's so fast, and it always ends with a bunch of work and scrambling. Winter's sedate.

So, endings:

First, I really like what you've done with The Illusive Man. Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Planescape: Torment both had sections where the 'boss' encounter was really just a conversation where you defend you philosophy, and there's been some of that in Mass Effect One. Having a full-blown, knockdown, kinetically charged defiant debate for galactic stakes, with both a machine God and the human he's inhabiting, trying to refute one and simultaneously reawaken the other to his humanity? I just had a dialecticgasm.

The endings, themselves, well. They're very comprehensive, from a Paragon perspective. I, personally, wouldn't have much problem with this. I've said before, I'm a Paragon player to the core. I haven't actually, ever, been able to go further than an hour or two into a Renegade playthrough. I get caught up in how unnecessarily dickish Shepard becomes.

It still needs to be said, though. There isn't a Renegade perfect ending, and there should be. In some way, Shepard should be vindicated for choosing practicality over principle. Perhaps -I dunno here. Anyone got numbers on what a perfect Renegade EMS looks like?- Shepard, through sheer, ruthless brutality, assembles a kickass-enough force that Harbinger concludes, based on the current battle (which is going poorly for the Reapers, it's a perfect ending, right?) and the decisions Shepard made to get to it, there's simply no way a synthetic could ever hope to stand up to an organic's ability to fight. Better yet, it use Shepard's calculating methods as a jumping-off point for the realization that Reapers are following inherently contradictory logic. Civilization, following Shepard's example, might even eventually willingly turn themselves into Reaper analogues, in which case the society needs to be protected. That could be cool.

That part aside, I've seen a lot of endings suggested. I seen plenty that tie themselves into the narrative, and into choice, but I don't think I've seen anything that ties itself so well into theme, or so well into consequence.

We should start a cabal of people, pushing our overly-long, high-fallutin', ivory-tower academia onto the masses, so they could understand all the myriad ways Mass Effect Three might've screwed up, but with big, smart-people words. That sounds like a good idea. Dracowulf, you should come to. I'd never leave a LitCrit grad student out in the cold.

Ahh, see for my university, Winter is the shortest quarter and therefore is the most demanding in terms of doing so much in such a short amount of time (especially for this year, because we had a bad snowstorm in Seattle this year that pretty much took out a week of school on top of the already short quarter).

Hahaha, I love the cabal idea!

Thank you very much for the critique!!! Yeah, actually the ending pretty much wrote itself when I figured out Harbinger should assume direct control of TIM.

Ok, now after reading what you said, I totally see where you're coming from and that Renegades are not getting much love in my endings. Crap, I need to fix that. This is why I love peer reviews! To be granted, peer reviews get a lot of flak, but it is totally worth it when your reviewer knows what s/he's talking about. So, I'll fix that today or tomorrow after I figure out how to incorporate the Renegade stance.

EDIT: BSN is giving me a lot of formatting errors and won't stop. I will post my response to your much appreciate criticism somewhere else and post a link in this post

Modifié par HBC Dresden, 21 mars 2012 - 07:12 .