152 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Who says they're the "majority"?

Well we certainly aren't a minority.

You got any real data on that?

I'm not saying it ain't true. Hell, I don't even know which side I'll be on myself, since I don't figure on finishing the game this side of Tuesday.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[aimlessgun]

GodWood wrote...
And why am I seeing so many "Everything else was fine - then the endings ruined it" comments?

Because players can take a certain amount of dumb crap and just mentally erase it to improve their enjoyment. But there is a threshold beyond which this becomes impossible, and the end of ME3 crossed that line like....100 times. 

The game, pre-ending, had flaws, but the totality of the experience was in fact 'fine' or better, for most people. Even people like me who heavily criticized ME2's story enjoyed it, because there are so many things to love and ruining all the good things by brooding over the bad ones is just a crappy way to live your life. 

So, sorry that we didn't follow ME3 plot developments for fear of spoilers, and sorry we didn't share your lingering disgust all through the ME2-ME3 interregum.Sorry we didn't poison our souls along with you.  

Modifié par aimlessgun, 11 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[GodWood]

SolidBeast wrote...
a 1% difference in one question, with this being the most voted reason - a. The endings seemed to come out of the blue, with no real connection to what had been established previously.
188 votes (28%)
and an 8% difference in a multiple-choice question, in a poll with only 670 votes is your proof?

Was it not the majority in that poll?

Also, in that link there was this as well.

Modifié par GodWood, 11 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Edhriano]

Hey now people, just take a deep breath, drink a cup a tea and play angry birds or something.
There is no reason why it can't be a calm and civilized conversations.

[aimlessgun]

My god, even for an internet poll, that's badly made. BOTH of the top 2 options have you voting for a brighter ending. Basically the only way to vote in that poll is to demand a brighter ending or say the ending is fine. 

I've been reading the forums way, way too much recently. And my informal read on the discussion I've seen puts the "I want rainbows" crowd in the minority. It's not a tiny minority by any means, but it is a definite minority of the complaint posts. 

Modifié par aimlessgun, 11 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[GodWood]

aimlessgun wrote...

GodWood wrote...
And why am I seeing so many "Everything else was fine - then the endings ruined it" comments?

Because players can take a certain amount of dumb crap and just mentally erase it to improve their enjoyment.

Well that certainly doesn't correlate to what I said.

If everything up to the endings was still "dumb crap" then the phrase "Everything else was fine - then the endings ruined it" wouldn't apply.

It should actually be "It was filled with dumb crap - and then the endings were just the cherry on top" or something to that effect.

It's obvious why this is being criticized more then all the other faults of the game and I don't think I need to point it out again. 

because there are so many things to love and ruining all the good things by brooding over the bad ones is just a crappy way to live your life.

This can't be directed at me. I'm not the one falling into a deep nihilistic depression just because I didn't like the ending to a videogame.

I'm having some fun on a forum.

So, sorry that we didn't follow ME3 plot developments for fear of spoilers, and sorry we didn't share your lingering disgust all through the ME2-ME3 interregum.Sorry we didn't poison our souls along with you.  

There's still hope. You've played the game and are 100% aware of all the story **** ups.

Complain away!

Modifié par GodWood, 11 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[SolidBeast]

GodWood wrote...

Was it not the majority in that poll?

The question isn't about that poll.
It's about the entire community. As far as I'm aware, there are far more people here than just 670.
As to the other poll, I will say that the question is badly worded, but it is by far the most popular and linked poll, so even though that wasn't my main reason, I voted for the first option, additional endings. I'm sure I'm not the only one (which is no doubt evidenced in comments), so the only thing that CAN be definitely concluded from that poll is that the majority (the one that voted, anyway) wants different endings from these.
Really, any kind of attempt at a "statistic" or these assumptions you throw around like facts are pointless, since these polls can never be accurate. The only repeating pattern is overwhelming dissatisfaction, for various reasons.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 11 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

I defended Bioware in every step, I defended them when they decided to go the route they took in ME2, I defended them when they announced ME3 multiplayer, I defended thepaying for from ashes DLC . Take it from me I hate the endings each one leaves me a bad taste in my mouth and after I beat the game I literally just stood up and went to bed at 3pm because I felt sick.

[GodWood]

aimlessgun wrote...

My god, even for an internet poll, that's badly made. BOTH of the top 2 options have you voting for a brighter ending. Basically the only way to vote in that poll is to demand a brighter ending or say the ending is fine. 

It's quite unfortunate. I metioned that on the first page.

[GodWood]

SolidBeast wrote...
The question isn't about that poll.
It's about the entire community. As far as I'm aware, there are far more people here than just 670.
As to the other poll, I will say that the question is badly worded, but it is by far the most popular and linked poll, so even though that wasn't my main reason, I voted for the first option, additional endings. I'm sure I'm not the only one (which is no doubt evidenced in comments), so the only thing that CAN be definitely concluded from that poll is that the majority (the one that voted, anyway) wants different endings from these.
Really, any kind of attempt at a "statistic" or these assumptions you throw around like facts are pointless, since these polls can never be accurate. The only repeating pattern is overwhelming dissatisfaction, for various reasons.

Feel free to make a poll to prove me wrong.

Right now all you've got is your word against my word + some half arsed polls.

Personally I'm dead certain the community would still be pissed at a lack of "happy endings" no matter how wonderful the writing is.

[Sebby]

ME3's story is truly majestic. The Cerberus fans get screwed right out of the gate but the anti-Cerberus paragon white knights have the rug swept from right underneath them after they've been "wiping them out like rats" and right before they can crack open a six pack to celebrate TIM's death.

[SolidBeast]

GodWood wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...
The question isn't about that poll.
It's about the entire community. As far as I'm aware, there are far more people here than just 670.
As to the other poll, I will say that the question is badly worded, but it is by far the most popular and linked poll, so even though that wasn't my main reason, I voted for the first option, additional endings. I'm sure I'm not the only one (which is no doubt evidenced in comments), so the only thing that CAN be definitely concluded from that poll is that the majority (the one that voted, anyway) wants different endings from these.
Really, any kind of attempt at a "statistic" or these assumptions you throw around like facts are pointless, since these polls can never be accurate. The only repeating pattern is overwhelming dissatisfaction, for various reasons.

Feel free to make a poll to prove me wrong.

Right now all you've got is your word against my word + some half arsed polls.

Personally I'm dead certain the community would still be pissed at a lack of "happy endings" no matter how wonderful the writing is.

Why the hell would I make a poll? That would only bring in yet another insignificant number of votes which proves nothing, as was my point.
Half-arsed polls aside, which are just that - half-arsed and not noteworthy at all if you want specifics, nothing makes your word more valid than mine.

[AlanC9]

GodWood wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...
a 1% difference in one question, with this being the most voted reason - a. The endings seemed to come out of the blue, with no real connection to what had been established previously.
188 votes (28%)
and an 8% difference in a multiple-choice question, in a poll with only 670 votes is your proof?

Was it not the majority in that poll?

Also, in that link there was this as well.

(graphic snipped)

The problem is that a self-selected poll, like a thread, disproortionately attracts people who agree with the premise. You get a few nutjobs like me who show up for a thread without having an opinion yet, but the majority are going to be people who think there is a problem and want to talk about that problem.

Making a poll to prove you wrong isn't workable. "Everyone, come here to prove that you don't have a problem with this!"..... that  never works.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[GodWood]

SolidBeast wrote...
nothing makes your word more valid than mine.

Except that I've got some half arsed stats, am super duper more trustworthy and I took the time to write a thread confronting this issue.

If it wasn't there I wouldn't have bothered.

[SolidBeast]

GodWood wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...
nothing makes your word more valid than mine.

Except that I've got some half arsed stats, am super duper more trustworthy and I took the time to write a thread confronting this issue.

If it wasn't there I wouldn't have bothered.

Like I said, those "stats" are BS.
You took the time to insult a bunch of people for absolutely no reason other than the fact it somehow affects you that other people dare to want a "happy" ending in their game (which they have loved as much as you, paid for as much as you and had hopes for, just like you), which has absolutely no bearing on your game - and that is quite petty.  Sure, some things bother me in this game. But I don't go telling other people how pathetic they are for not complaining about the same things as I do. You needn't have bothered.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Seboist wrote...

ME3's story is truly majestic. The Cerberus fans get screwed right out of the gate but the anti-Cerberus paragon white knights have the rug swept from right underneath them after they've been "wiping them out like rats" and right before they can crack open a six pack to celebrate TIM's death.

I'm pretty anti-Cerberus and I didn't want to open a 6-pack at TIM's death.

Just because I didn't support him didn't mean I didn't respect him. He deserved better than to be Saren 2.0. His treatment is actually another part of the ending I disliked.

Anyway, in reference to the larger thread, not everyone hates the endings just because they weren't happy or just because they were poorly-written or just because our choices didn't matter. For most people it was a combination of all these (and more) factors. At least, such is true for me and many of the criticisms I have read.

[PinkDiamondstl]

GodWood wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
Dead on point . This is how I feel.

If you dislike the ending purely for the crappy writing and NOT because it isn't happy then this thread isn't directed at you.

I was't hoping for a disney ending. I truly believed that they screwed up our endings. 
I feel like I wasted my time and money on this.

[MonkeyLungs]

Obviously all the stufff you talk about in the OP just doesn't bother people as much as it bothered you. Obviously the ending carried far more weight emotionally to some people than everything leading up to it combined.

Mass Effect 1 is still the undisputed champion of the series by lightyears but I don't think people who prefer Mass Effect 2 or 3 are 'bad people'.

There should have been more endings and not a 3 choice roulette a'la Deus Ex. The ending should have played out in accdordance with a players choices throughout the games not because the player gets shown three buttons and is introduced to some indescribable entity.

There is nothing wrong with happy ending either, even when they are really cliche' ... there is a reason they are cliche'/recurring across fiction through the ages.

The endings almost feel like Bioware has a seething hatred for the characters of Mass Effect and the fans of the series.

[GodWood]

SolidBeast wrote...
Like I said, those "stats" are BS.

Those stats are a statistical representation of a chunk of the BSN's opinion on the endings and what they'd prefer.

You took the time to insult a bunch of people for absolutely no reason other than the fact it somehow affects you that other people dare to want a "happy" ending in their game, which has absolutely no bearing on your game - and that is quite petty.

I see you've decided to avoid trying to 'prove' your claim that the "just want a happy ending" crowd is a minority and instead are just choosing to attack me.

But hey, I don't mind, I can take it. 

What I'm doing is pointing at the sheer hypocrisy and childish nature behind these complaints. Do their complaints affect my game now? No. But when crap like this is the loudest opinion heard I have to put up with the fallout in the next game.

This is how we get fan-pandering train wrecks like ME3.

Sure, some things bother me in this game. But I don't go telling other people how pathetic they are for not complaining about the same things as I do. You needn't have bothered.

That's not why I called them pathetic.

Work on your comprehension skills boy.

Modifié par GodWood, 11 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[AlanC9]

GodWood wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...
Like I said, those "stats" are BS.

Those stats are a statistical representation of a chunk of the BSN's opinion on the endings and what they'd prefer.

"A chunk"?

I'm with you on the substance, but this is no way to prove anything.

[SolidBeast]

GodWood wrote...
Those stats are a statistical representation of a chunk of the BSN's opinion on the endings and what they'd prefer.

Not even a good chunk. A piece, a sample. Not representative of the true majority and therefore, BS.

I see you've decided to avoid trying to 'prove' your claim that the "just want a happy ending" crowd is a minority and instead are just choosing to attack me.

But hey, I don't mind, I can take it. 

What I'm doing is pointing at the sheer hypocrisy and childish nature behind these complaints. Do their complaints affect my game now? No. But when crap like this is the loudest opinion heard I have to put up with the fallout in the next game.

This is how we get fan-pandering train wrecks like ME3.

I did not say  it is a minority. I said that based on the complaints, there's definitely no evidence it's the majority, and, as showed by other posts, even those that want a happy ending do not complain PURELY because of that.
Attack you? No, I'm not the one here making ridiculous conclusions about people based on their one wish / opinion. You have no proof that these same people like all the things you have problems with, anyway. Perhaps they have issues with that too, but choose to concentrate on the endings because that's what's left the biggest impact - which is perfectly valid.

That's not why I called them pathetic.

The fact you think you're entitled to determine they're pathetic is amusing in itself.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 11 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[ShepGep]

The problem with the ending(s) are...is that...they're all the same. Someone who just trolled it up the first three games trying to alienate as many people as possible essentially has the same ending as an effective, capable, and strong Commander. It's just the usual Bioware trend that's been present since DA2 where no matter what you do or what choices you make...the end result is the same. The ending just seemed rushed and poorly planned to me.

[MonkeyLungs]

ShepGep wrote...

The ending just seemed rushed and poorly planned to me.

To me the endings seemed like hatred for the series and the fans in digital form. I got a strong sense of contempt for the entire fictional creation and anyone who likes it from the endings.

[Dark_Caduceus]

GodWood wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...
Like I said, those "stats" are BS.

Those stats are a statistical representation of a chunk of the BSN's opinion on the endings and what they'd prefer.

You took the time to insult a bunch of people for absolutely no reason other than the fact it somehow affects you that other people dare to want a "happy" ending in their game, which has absolutely no bearing on your game - and that is quite petty.

I see you've decided to avoid trying to 'prove' your claim that the "just want a happy ending" crowd is a minority and instead are just choosing to attack me.

But hey, I don't mind, I can take it. 

What I'm doing is pointing at the sheer hypocrisy and childish nature behind these complaints. Do their complaints affect my game now? No. But when crap like this is the loudest opinion heard I have to put up with the fallout in the next game.

This is how we get fan-pandering train wrecks like ME3.

Sure, some things bother me in this game. But I don't go telling other people how pathetic they are for not complaining about the same things as I do. You needn't have bothered.

That's not why I called them pathetic.

Work on your comprehension skills boy.

ME3 was fan pandering? Look how many people are upset... If their intention was to ego-stroke all the fans then the epilogue would be a festival with Shepard and whole crew surrounded by memorials for the dead and the commemoration of the Normandy SR3.

Unrelatedly, I think you should consider stopping with the personal insults, I'm all for having ideas attacked, deconstructed, insulted, etc but there's no need to call people pathetic or "the worst kinds of people" for having a dissenting opinion, that's just immature.

[Gigamantis]

Ugh, was there ever a time where people just enjoyed a game with rich lore, an entertaining story and fun game-play? RPG gamers now are just a non-stop parade of community college literature majors and emotionally unstable children trying too hard to be professional critics.

The literary majors spend the whole time trying to overstate minor plot-holes, or invent plot-holes, while the children just cry if the game's writers decide for themselves how they want to end THEIR story.

Mass Effect 3 is a great game. It will likely be a game of the year contender.

Modifié par Gigamantis, 11 mars 2012 - 03:34 .