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[coldwetn0se]

Emzamination wrote...

Visii wrote...

@Emzamination,

Here's the thing. We never got to talk about it with Thane. We only got to talk to him about the illness itself, not about any possible sort of treatment for it. He was just RESIGNED to it, the way he was at the beginning of ME2, even though, if romanced, he had changed.

The man had lived a long sad and hard life, he was tire and when you have a stubborn "loving" spouse or partner that you KNOW is not going to give up fighting as long as options keep presenting themselves (as human nature dictates), sometimes you have to say enough is enough and take the options out of their hands.

Then we are at an impasse.  I do not agree with this, and I do not buy into your argument, just as you apparently do NOT buy in to mine (ours).  Feel free to peruse this lovely thread and all the thought out posts....and some of our "just for kicks" post.  But again.....as left in two lengthy posts to you.....I disagree. 

[Visii]

Emzamination wrote...

Visii wrote...

@Emzamination,

Here's the thing. We never got to talk about it with Thane. We only got to talk to him about the illness itself, not about any possible sort of treatment for it. He was just RESIGNED to it, the way he was at the beginning of ME2, even though, if romanced, he had changed.

The man had lived a long sad and hard life, he was tire and when you have a stubborn "loving" spouse or partner that you KNOW is not going to give up fighting as long as options keep presenting themselves (as human nature dictates), sometimes you have to say enough is enough and take the options out of their hands.

Prove to me that he was "tired". Because at the end of ME2, he was determined to live for himself, for Shepard, and his son Kolyat.

[Emzamination]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Emzamination wrote...


Its only "mortal" that a dieing person would want more time with loved ones, it doesn't constitute that they haven't accepted their death as well.As far as the transplant goes, are you considering it from thanes point of view? It is easy to speak of transplants and surgical procedures when it is not your person on the metal slab getting your chest sliced open,blood transfusion,soreness,healing and everything else in that cheery little package.My point is that sometimes the best way to show your love is to let go.

And I would agree, assuming you were able to talk to said loved one about their choices/desires.  In ME2, Thane's character arc was NOT resigned to death if you romanced him, wishing to live for his son, and Shepard.  His original writer didn't even no which direction they were going to go in with his character.  It is probably reasonable to assume that this is WHY they left all those hints about life extention/cure.  Gives them (and wishfully), us as players....CHOICES.

In me3 we are never given a true conversation about this 180 character change, since they didn't bother to put in dialogue there that was SPECIFIC to a romanced Thane.  And please take some care with this.  You are stating that it is more HUMANE to "let someone go".  It can be, if that is their wishes, but I will be damned if I won't offer my support in their fight, if that is what they choose.  I would hope my loved ones would do the same for me.

Should also be noted that since there are many of us (as everyone will face at some point; no one is immune to death and loss) who have dealt with or are currently dealing with a loved ones illness, this character may have given them a sense of player agency that they can have in a fantasy setting (video game), which they CAN NOT have in real life.  Save someone they love.  It's called escapism, and it is nice to have at times.

We were hoping for choices, and a number of us have come up with all kinds of plausible ways that they could have offered us, but didn't.  I don't actually believe that they will change anything, but I will still speak my mind about Thanes character (or lack there of) in this game.  And remember....you talk about pain in a video game/fantasy setting.....reread my post and you will see that some of the treatments might not be terrible invasive, and I'm guess medical science has improved a bit to combat pain/suffering and recovery times.  Gotta love sci-fi!

No, I didn't say it was a more "humane" choice...the man is not an Animal, I said sometimes it maybe the best course of action if you don't wish to compound suffering with more suffering (Ie: serious surgical procedures).The rest of it I'm not touching tho as far as medical science recovery times in me3 go, I agree as seen with the soilder in the hospital whose leg had to be amputated but then again...oh nvm.

[Emzamination]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Visii wrote...

@Emzamination,

Here's the thing. We never got to talk about it with Thane. We only got to talk to him about the illness itself, not about any possible sort of treatment for it. He was just RESIGNED to it, the way he was at the beginning of ME2, even though, if romanced, he had changed.

The man had lived a long sad and hard life, he was tire and when you have a stubborn "loving" spouse or partner that you KNOW is not going to give up fighting as long as options keep presenting themselves (as human nature dictates), sometimes you have to say enough is enough and take the options out of their hands.

Then we are at an impasse.  I do not agree with this, and I do not buy into your argument, just as you apparently do NOT buy in to mine (ours).  Feel free to peruse this lovely thread and all the thought out posts....and some of our "just for kicks" post.  But again.....as left in two lengthy posts to you.....I disagree. 

"Just for kicks" post? I see, I'm sorry if my opinion offended you in some way, feel free to disagree,discard and ignore it as you see fit.

@ visii Well there was the fact he himself did not pursue an alternative during the 6 months shep was away

[mnomaha]

@Emzamination ..the just for kicks posts was, I am assuming, referring to the absolutely off-topic subject changes we have...every now and then...about ridges and whatnot.

[Miss Krios]

LucyMaire wrote...

utaker1988 wrote...

Ah, yes....

Shep: Do you know that BW has written for you to die in ME3?
Thane: Why would they do that?
Shep: They think you want too, you are at peace with it, you have accepted it.
Thane: Did they not pay attention to anything I said?
Shep: Apparently not, but they are backed by a large amount of trolls who think your disease is all that you are.
Thane: Where are these trolls?
Shep: They are everywhere, they are more in number than the Reapers.
Thane: So, my disease kills me, wonderful.
Shep: Well, sort of but it's pushed along by a stab wound by that superb assassin Kai Leng.
Thane: What? The guy who eats cereal and pees in a vase? This is disquieting.
Shep: Yes, but they think the fight is epic. It's so great that no matter how much I love you and no matter how many opportunities are there to take Leng down, I just stand there like a fool.
Thane: Tell me I don't just stand around like a fool.
Shep: Well not really but for being the best assassin in the galaxy, they have you pull some rather amateurish moves.
Thane: Even on my worst day, I would never be amateurish. Apparently this must be my worst day. Go on.
Shep: After you are stabbed, I don't bother to help you. I take off and I don't leave anyone behind to help you.
Thane: This is madness!!!! What were they thinking?
Shep: With a large writing team, you were kinda forgotten about, I think the word "optional" was used too. They admitted to dropping the ball.
Thane: (grabs sniper) I'm about to drop a few balls.

Bahaha <3 

Lovely:happy:

[Visii]

Emzamination wrote...
"Just for kicks" post? I see, I'm sorry if my opinion offended you in some way, feel free to disagree,discard and ignore it as you see fit.

@ visii Well there was the fact he himself did not pursue an alternative during the 6 months shep was away

That's the issue, again.  We don't get to talk to Thane about it. We don't get to ask if he sought any treatment during that period of separation. We don't know why it was, or wasn't an option. IT would have been one thing if we could have asked him, but we didn't get the option to understand why.

[Yermogi]

Emzamination wrote...
@ visii Well there was the fact he himself did not pursue an alternative during the 6 months shep was away

Well, see, in my own mind, the reason he didn't do this was because THEY FORGOT ABOUT THANE COMPLETELY AND ADDED IN HIS DIALOGUE AT THE LAST MINUTE BECAUSE THEY WENT "Oh, crap, we forgot Thane."

Modifié par Yermogi, 02 avril 2012 - 12:11 .

[coldwetn0se]

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]coldwetn0se wrote...

[quote]Emzamination wrote...

[quote]Visii wrote...

@Emzamination,

Here's the thing. We never got to talk about it with Thane. We only got to talk to him about the illness itself, not about any possible sort of treatment for it. He was just RESIGNED to it, the way he was at the beginning of ME2, even though, if romanced, he had changed.

[/quote]

The man had lived a long sad and hard life, he was tire and when you have a stubborn "loving" spouse or partner that you KNOW is not going to give up fighting as long as options keep presenting themselves (as human nature dictates), sometimes you have to say enough is enough and take the options out of their hands.

[/quote]

Then we are at an impasse.  I do not agree with this, and I do not buy into your argument, just as you apparently do NOT buy in to mine (ours).  Feel free to peruse this lovely thread and all the thought out posts....and some of our "just for kicks" post.  But again.....as left in two lengthy posts to you.....I disagree. 
[/quote]

"Just for kicks" post? I see, I'm sorry if my opinion offended you in some way, feel free to disagree,discard and ignore it as you see fit.

@ visii Well there was the fact he himself did not pursue an alternative during the 6 months shep was away

[/quote]

Your opinion doesn't offend me, I'm merely passionate about mine.  As @mnomaha stated, we sometimes go off the "serious" grid, and get a bit light hearted around here.  That's what I was referring to in regards to "just for kicks".

As for the six months thing, I (and others), have had issue with the lack of character autonomy that was considered for Thane and especially a Romanced Thane.  The example you use comes out of the writing for me3, and does NOT reflect the character arc he has at the end of ME2, if romanced. 

I will include an old post that strangely enough, I just posted again earlier today.  This outlines a few possible ideas as to how they could have stayed true to his romance arc, while giving even more choices to the players.  I like choices in my RPG's.

[quote]



I have mentioned this before, but it was a few months past in the Thane Thread, but they could have easily done this right for the romancers AND those that wanted (yuck) Thane to die. If LM was a success, and/or Thane was romanced and alive by the end of ME2, give the man some autonomy, and have him CHOOSE to extend his life (i.e. lung transplant, lung medi-gel, space magic I don't care....) This would take place DURING those six months that Shepard and him are separated. Still meeting him in the hospital then would work for those that didn't meet the above conditions, and for his CHOOSING to extend his life.

If he has chosen to extend his life, he still needs to check in with his Dr.'s, maybe needs some health maintenance, ect....If the above conditions were met, we have romance dialogue specific to his extending his life, and we get the chance to reaffirm the relationship. Added dialogue/scenes, the likes. Then, when the fight with Kai Leng happens, if you are in a romance with him(or friended with LM successful), he doesn't get hurt badly but Kai Leng knows that you (Shep and Co.) are now on the scene, and Kai Leng takes off. Rest of the scene plays out as normal. You still go to the hospital to check on him, those that didn't pursue a relationship with him (friend or LI) get the deathbed scene.

Those that did romance/friend him, get the chance to do a side mission for assets, AND for Thanemancers we also get a love scene. Since he was never intended to come back as a squaddie (yeah, wattever..), you can suggest that him and Kolyat return to the Normandy/Kahje/Rakhana (where ever).

<scene and curtain>


*EDIT*

Just a quick added note. Some players who still wish to be friends with Thane, BUT still want his death (yuck), could have a few flag markers set up in the first set of dialogue options you get. For example, make a convo similiar to the Alistair "Hardening" dialogue. First two times I played DAO, I didn't choose the correct set of options to "harden" Alistair. This could then be a flag that if triggered (or in this case NOT triggered), get the deathbed scene instead. This would then cover pretty much all RP options.
1)Thane romanced, life extended, romance reconfirmed, not badly injured by Leng, side mission, asset, someplace safe.
2)Thane friended, life extended, "hardened", not badly injured by Leng, side mission, asst, someplace safe.
3)Thane friended/romanced, life extended, NOT "hardened" (or romance rejected), BADLY injured by Leng, deathbed scene.
4) Thane alive but unsuccessful LM, NO life extention, Kai Leng badly injures Thane, deathbed scene. Thank you for reading.

[Emzamination]

mnomaha wrote...

@Emzamination ..the just for kicks posts was, I am assuming, referring to the absolutely off-topic subject changes we have...every now and then...about ridges and whatnot.

Thanks for clarifying that

@visii Oh, you want more a more in-depth understanding of how thane came to the conclusion rather than the conclusion itself. 

[RShara]

So if someone you knew and cared for said, "I'm dying. My lungs are failing." What would be the first thing that you'd ask them?

Perhaps, "Have you considered a transplant?"

Nope, you apparently ask, "How long you got, oh and how's KAIDAN?"

[mnomaha]

Also, for the six months thing...how the hell did I get to Earth??? I didn't surrender anything, at any time, so how come I am currently under house arrest? I would have loved the ability to defend myself. And spend those six months with Thane.

[Yermogi]

I should really just stop posting here. When people don't read the first page and just come in saying things like "How could you expect anything different?", my eye starts twitching.

[Yermogi]

mayrabgood wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Also, for the six months thing...how the hell did I get to Earth??? I didn't surrender anything, at any time, so how come I am currently under house arrest? I would have loved the ability to defend myself. And spend those six months with Thane.

There really does need to be an explanation of how Shepard ended up on Earth. I know for sure my renegade would never have turned herself in. The beginning of the game just started off with a bunch of stuff missing like the trial she was supposed to have. I guess the Alliance dragged me to Earth but Thane wouldn't have allowed that. There needs to be a pre-quel DLC or something, but with the treatment of Thane and the endings, it doesn't matter in the end.

Hell, my Paragon Shepard wouldn't even have gone. After what the Alliance did to her and her crew? Yeah, RIGHT.

[coldwetn0se]

Yermogi wrote...

mayrabgood wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Also, for the six months thing...how the hell did I get to Earth??? I didn't surrender anything, at any time, so how come I am currently under house arrest? I would have loved the ability to defend myself. And spend those six months with Thane.

There really does need to be an explanation of how Shepard ended up on Earth. I know for sure my renegade would never have turned herself in. The beginning of the game just started off with a bunch of stuff missing like the trial she was supposed to have. I guess the Alliance dragged me to Earth but Thane wouldn't have allowed that. There needs to be a pre-quel DLC or something, but with the treatment of Thane and the endings, it doesn't matter in the end.

Hell, my Paragon Shepard wouldn't even have gone. After what the Alliance did to her and her crew? Yeah, RIGHT.

So this!!  I don't have a single Shep that would have gone "gently in to that goodnight"......BOOYA!!
Hated that we couldn't RP's this better..........

[Cyansomnia]

*sigh*



And shall remain as such. /sadface

I'm feeling really low tonight.

[Yermogi]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Yermogi wrote...

mayrabgood wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Also, for the six months thing...how the hell did I get to Earth??? I didn't surrender anything, at any time, so how come I am currently under house arrest? I would have loved the ability to defend myself. And spend those six months with Thane.

There really does need to be an explanation of how Shepard ended up on Earth. I know for sure my renegade would never have turned herself in. The beginning of the game just started off with a bunch of stuff missing like the trial she was supposed to have. I guess the Alliance dragged me to Earth but Thane wouldn't have allowed that. There needs to be a pre-quel DLC or something, but with the treatment of Thane and the endings, it doesn't matter in the end.

Hell, my Paragon Shepard wouldn't even have gone. After what the Alliance did to her and her crew? Yeah, RIGHT.

So this!!  I don't have a single Shep that would have gone "gently in to that goodnight"......BOOYA!!
Hated that we couldn't RP's this better..........

I like pretending that they took her kicking and screaming after spending a nice, long "honeymoon" session with Thane. That lasted several months. And they... had lots of fun together. 

[JECW]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

*sigh*



And shall remain as such. /sadface

I'm feeling really low tonight.

I still can't believe that you can't get a parmour achievement for Thane.

[coldwetn0se]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

*sigh*



And shall remain as such. /sadface

I'm feeling really low tonight.

<huggle>  Sorry Aislinn.......'have I told you lately how much I love you?'

Just don't forget that your contributions (hello awesome video, for one!) have put a smile on a lot of our faces......hope we can do the same for you, my dear!

[mnomaha]

Yeah, well, my Garrusmance got hijacked by Kaidan, so now I have that achievement...whether I wanted it or not. I couldn't do my ThaneShep first, not with all I heard. I'm so glad I didn't. I wish we could reset that achievement.

[utaker1988]

I have that empty spot where that achievement should be. It was supposed to be for Thane and I plan on keeping it that way. If they never fix it, well it will sit there as a glaring reminder of what happened.

[disc0nnect7]

I don't have the paramour achievement either. I couldn't get hijacked by Kaiden since I went so far as to create a new save where I have Ashley as my VS.

Shepard ran straight into the synthesis beam and never looked back. I like to think she's across the sea with Thane now. Although the game portrays all femsheps who romanced Thane as cold and unfeeling, that's not how I roleplay.

[LucyMaire]

I didn't allow myself to get hijacked by Kaidan. He was the only person I was renegade to (well besides Kai Leng obviously.)
It was the only playthrough of any Mass Effect game that I've done without an LI. It felt so...lonely

[mnomaha]

*sigh* I wish I had known. I guess it never occurred to me until it was already done.

Feel bad for my ThaneShep though, she's stuck on Mars listening to Liara prattle on. Vega offered to shoot her for me.