Visii wrote...
Aryss & Nick are presenting the fanbook- they said they'd keep me updated as to what's happening, over there.
*excited*
Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance
Débuté par
JECW
, mars 10 2012 08:53
#3701
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:26
blueshepard
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*excited*
Retour en haut
#3702
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:39
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Guest_mayrabgood_*
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coldwetn0se wrote...
EvanesceKunoichi wrote...
Aislinn Trista wrote...
Here's a livestream to the PAX panels if you guys wanna watch:
http://www.twitch.tv/
Bioware will be on at 4:30 EST.
I wish I could, but I gotta work.
Oh cool, thanks for that. So they will be on in a little over 2 hours.
I wll be home so I will look at it, hopefully they announce something good.
I think I read on both the ME PAX thread and DA PAX thread, that the Manticore room (which is where the BW panel is), is NOT being recorded on twitch. Could be wrong, but just thought I would pass on the info that I read on those threads. Hopefully someone else is recording/taking notes while there, and will share with the class....
Yes, you're right. They're not going to stream the BioWare panel. They were going to before and then they changed it. Made me so mad! So now we have to rely on people who go to record on their phone and then put in on youtube or something.
#3703
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:54
Julia_xo
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sydzilla wrote...
The "we knew this would end" line was just a punch in the gut. I was thinking "since when? no we did not know this! This is news to me and bad news at that." Did he mean we knew it would end when he died or we knew it was just a fling (which it definitely was not) and wouldn't last? I was really upset at that line. It felt like the the dialogue was trying to close the romance for you with no option to say NO THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANT and steer you in another direction which I absolutely hated. There was a lot about the Thane romance (or lack thereof) that left you with no options to choose or put scripted words in Shepard's mouth that were not at all what I wanted to say. That small conversation felt as if it attempted to retcon Thane's romanced character progression and the romance itself in a single encounter. It was confusing and so disappointing.
I was so upset by that line as well. It felt like a brush off and a dismissal of the relationship and there's no way to disagee or anything. Thane was not a fling but the way the relationship is so callously portrayed makes it feel like one in ME3. What were they thinking?
I was listening to the ME2 soundfiles squeegee posted on page 143 of this thread. One of Thane's lines of dialogue is and I quote:
"You have many burdens, Siha, remember that I'll help you carry them."
or
"Time for me is short, Siha, but any I have is yours to take."
The quotes above are from the Thane my Shepard fell in love with. Where was he in ME3?
#3704
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:55
Julia_xo
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Laser-Eyes wrote...
My husband is watching a PAX stream or something at home and texting me updates (lol). He said that "The Team" lithograph (I am actually getting that pic framed at this very moment!) is hanging up with "Hope Dies Last" by it. He thinks maybe it is a sign for ME2 love. I can only hope.
I don't want to get my hopes up but......
Please let this mean they haven't forgotten Thane and the rest of the ME2 squad. Maybe there will be DLC?
Visii wrote...
Aryss & Nick are presenting the fanbook- they said they'd keep me updated as to what's happening, over there.
Oh my God! I hope everything goes well. A million thanks to them (and to you Visii) for making this happen.
#3705
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 06:58
Laser-Eyes
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Aislinn Trista wrote...
Ah, well, it was worth a try I guess. Even so, I have friends keeping an eye out to see if there's anything that can be gained from it.
Having a poster with the ME2 team that says "Hope Dies Last" is either an unintential troll on their part, or they might actually say something. Once again:
As do I. I do hope for the best, but I'm not really expecting much. I will have to find out where he saw that quote when I get home.
#3706
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:00
JECW
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Julia_xo wrote...
sydzilla wrote...
The "we knew this would end" line was just a punch in the gut. I was thinking "since when? no we did not know this! This is news to me and bad news at that." Did he mean we knew it would end when he died or we knew it was just a fling (which it definitely was not) and wouldn't last? I was really upset at that line. It felt like the the dialogue was trying to close the romance for you with no option to say NO THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANT and steer you in another direction which I absolutely hated. There was a lot about the Thane romance (or lack thereof) that left you with no options to choose or put scripted words in Shepard's mouth that were not at all what I wanted to say. That small conversation felt as if it attempted to retcon Thane's romanced character progression and the romance itself in a single encounter. It was confusing and so disappointing.
I was so upset by that line as well. It felt like a brush off and a dismissal of the relationship and there's no way to disagee or anything. Thane was not a fling but the way the relationship is so callously portrayed makes it feel like one in ME3. What were they thinking?
I was listening to the ME2 soundfiles squeegee posted on page 143 of this thread. One of Thane's lines of dialogue is and I quote:
"You have many burdens, Siha, remember that I'll help you carry them."
or
"Time for me is short, Siha, but any I have is yours to take."
The quotes above are from the Thane my Shepard fell in love with. Where was he in ME3?
Bioware took him away and gave us this Thane clone.
I hate that line as well. It feels like bioware was just being cruel by putting that in there. When did we know this would end. I don't remember my shepard ever having a discussion about the end withThane.
He went from wanting to live to just giving up, and Shepard acts like she could care less.
#3707
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:00
Visii
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Julia_xo wrote...
Oh my God! I hope everything goes well. A million thanks to them (and to you Visii) for making this happen.
Yup! Check out the PAX Fanbook thread- I've put up some videos of the fanbook (with pictures) and will update it soon as the bioware panel starts and they have stuff to send me.
#3708
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:08
utaker1988
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Julia_xo wrote...
I was so upset by that line as well. It felt like a brush off and a dismissal of the relationship and there's no way to disagee or anything. Thane was not a fling but the way the relationship is so callously portrayed makes it feel like one in ME3. What were they thinking?
I was listening to the ME2 soundfiles squeegee posted on page 143 of this thread. One of Thane's lines of dialogue is and I quote:
"You have many burdens, Siha, remember that I'll help you carry them."
or
"Time for me is short, Siha, but any I have is yours to take."
The quotes above are from the Thane my Shepard fell in love with. Where was he in ME3?
Those made me cry when I recently replayed ME2 and he said, "I will always be here to talk" I burst into tears and buried my face into my pillow. Through painfully muffled sobs I whimpered, "No you won't. You are going to leave my Shep all alone and lost."
Maybe some assclown decided that no one would take a dying man as a serious romance path. Yes because that's exactly what I do when the people I love are close to death, I discard them. Again, what were they thinking?
#3709
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:16
Niemalna
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I know I shouldn't be this excited.
But I am.
It's like I just pre-ordered the CE all over again.
I'm excited, and terrified all at the same time.
Why you gotta make such nice characters I connect with Bioware? D:
andwhyyougottacrushthemintonothingness.
Probably thing that bothers me most with not having an option to save Thane, is that you can even spare your enemies. I let Arishok live every time, but I can't save my LI? D:
But I am.
It's like I just pre-ordered the CE all over again.
I'm excited, and terrified all at the same time.
Why you gotta make such nice characters I connect with Bioware? D:
andwhyyougottacrushthemintonothingness.
Probably thing that bothers me most with not having an option to save Thane, is that you can even spare your enemies. I let Arishok live every time, but I can't save my LI? D:
#3710
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:30
utaker1988
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Yeah I don't like the whole "you can spare your enemies" thing but you don't have a choice to save your LI. Right. If Thane doesn't have a choice, what are the chances my Shep isn't going to kill you as soon as the opportunity presents itself? Legion would state, "There is a zero probability of survival."
#3711
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:36
daigakuinsei
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Question for Thanemancers:
He told you he was dying. If you did the romance, you know it's incurable. Why did you expect him to live?
He told you he was dying. If you did the romance, you know it's incurable. Why did you expect him to live?
#3712
Guest_mayrabgood_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:42
Guest_mayrabgood_*
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daigakuinsei wrote...
Question for Thanemancers:
He told you he was dying. If you did the romance, you know it's incurable. Why did you expect him to live?
Since you didn't read the OP, here you go. Read this. Written by Visii.
The Illness
TL;DR: Keprals should have been curable, or the disease stabilized to extend Thane's life so that he could live long enough to receive the Hanar cure. Too much foreshadowing was made and all of it was ignored.
Keprals Syndrome to me was tipping towards the ridiculous when it came to Thane, just as the multiple rapes in Jack's history overburdened her already tragic childhood. It was more than enough that his wife was murdered as a result of his profession. The effect Keprals syndrome had in ME2 was much like Miranda's father, unseen and only spoken of in distant terms, a specter of the future. Time is important here.
Directly after being recruited, during the first conversation on the Normandy, Thane mentioned that the Hanar were working on a cure; he just didn't expect that he would live long enough to benefit from it. In Lair of the Shadow Broker, Thane's dossier showed that he was an eligible transplant candidate, but he refused; it is unclear when it occurred, so it is unknown whether or not he refused pre- or post meeting Shepard. But the important information here is that it was possible for Thane to receive a transplant that would extend his life. There would not need to be a miracle cure because there was already one in the works by the Hanar. In addition, the CDN mentioned a new medigel for the lungs that would revolutionize internal medicine; I hope I need not explain how this could immediately benefit Thane.
And yet, all that foreshadowing, dismissed. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information to support their claim, but hope born of game-provided evidence. This was a slap in the face. If Thane was always slated to die, why give any of it at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure? Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3" banner, giving more hope to fans? If this isn't trolling, I don't know any other name for it.
In the Mass Effect universe, Shepard was been brought back to life from unquestionable death. Mordin threw together a Genophage cure. Making those two things happen while stating that extending Thane's life wasn't possible despite all this information is simply contradictory and nonsensical.
~With every other character that can die, the player has an option to save. Thane shouldn't have been any different even with his sickness. BioWare themselves gave clues and foreshadowing that he could be cured or have his life extended. That's why we believed he could live!
Modifié par mayrabgood, 06 avril 2012 - 07:45 .
#3713
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:42
coldwetn0se
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Thane: I believe his query is disingenuous, Siha. Not worth your effort, my Warrior Angel.
#3714
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:43
JECW
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daigakuinsei wrote...
Question for Thanemancers:
He told you he was dying. If you did the romance, you know it's incurable. Why did you expect him to live?
Read the first page. Then you might get an understanding of why we are upset.
#3715
Guest_Hainkpe_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 07:44
Guest_Hainkpe_*
Guest_Hainkpe_*
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daigakuinsei wrote...
Question for Thanemancers:
He told you he was dying. If you did the romance, you know it's incurable. Why did you expect him to live?
You know one day you are going to die, why do you continue to live?
#3716
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:00
Jenlocks
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<3coldwetn0se wrote...
Thane: I believe his query is disingenuous, Siha. Not worth your effort, my Warrior Angel.
#3717
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:01
Niemalna
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Ignore post.
Modifié par Niemalna, 06 avril 2012 - 08:02 .
#3718
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:05
daigakuinsei
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Thoughts:
1. I'm not afflicted with a terminal illness; Thane is. You were told your time would be short, so enjoy it while it lasts.
2. The "more than enough" argument is silly. Some people have bad lives, some have great, and others have truly tragic. Thane is probably in that last category. If the writers saw him that way, then that's how it should play out. How you respond in the middle is what matters.
3. The dossiers also say the disease had gone through metastasis, so lung medigel wouldn't be enough. You're making too many assumptions about immune systems and drell-specific antibiotics.
4. Re: Lung Transplant - Thane had a death wish. I know you can temporarily change that if you do a FemShep romance, but given his eidetic memory I could see that changing easily back to resignation.
I do feel for Thanemancers because ME2 romances generally got shafted unless they were Normandy crew in 3. Should have been a longer cutscene and maybe the Paramour achievement, but expecting him to live is excessive.
1. I'm not afflicted with a terminal illness; Thane is. You were told your time would be short, so enjoy it while it lasts.
2. The "more than enough" argument is silly. Some people have bad lives, some have great, and others have truly tragic. Thane is probably in that last category. If the writers saw him that way, then that's how it should play out. How you respond in the middle is what matters.
3. The dossiers also say the disease had gone through metastasis, so lung medigel wouldn't be enough. You're making too many assumptions about immune systems and drell-specific antibiotics.
4. Re: Lung Transplant - Thane had a death wish. I know you can temporarily change that if you do a FemShep romance, but given his eidetic memory I could see that changing easily back to resignation.
I do feel for Thanemancers because ME2 romances generally got shafted unless they were Normandy crew in 3. Should have been a longer cutscene and maybe the Paramour achievement, but expecting him to live is excessive.
#3719
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:05
Totally Not Swaggacide
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Wow the same recycled letter?
That's almost as insulting as Tali's stock photo
That's almost as insulting as Tali's stock photo
#3720
Guest_Hainkpe_*
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:11
Guest_Hainkpe_*
Guest_Hainkpe_*
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You will die. Your time is short. Enjoy it while it lasts. Yet, you live. Why?daigakuinsei wrote...
Thoughts:
1. I'm not afflicted with a terminal illness; Thane is. You were told your time would be short, so enjoy it while it lasts.
#3721
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:26
JECW
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Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...
Wow the same recycled letter?
That's almost as insulting as Tali's stock photo
Yes the same letter that most of us have already seen.
They could have at least let Thane read it.
#3722
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:27
Niemalna
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I was fine with him dying when ME2 came out. I'm still fine with it, as long as it's done well. Unfortunately, the death for a Thanemancer was not done well, nor was the romance itself (which is the actual focus of this thread, hence the title. lol) His survival would be nice considering all other LIs and many other characters can be saved. Sure, they don't have a terminal illness, but the choice would still be nice for Thanemancers. And there's space magic all over the place. It wouldn't be too hard, as they as they gave it consideration and reason. Which, seeing as how they admit to forgetting all about him, obviously neither was used; sad, considering some of the amazing scenes and arcs in ME3.
I want a tragic, bittersweet outcome, but there wasn't one. It was emotionless and ignored. Shepard doesn't give any form, no matter how small because she is strong and a leader with psychological damage, of mourning or grief. Tears, anger, anything would have been nice. And the crew doesn't even seem to realize he's dead. They don't mention him, don't offer comfort, don't sort of distant themselves while she deals with losing a loved one. In ME3, Thane isn't a loved one, he's just a booty call that didn't matter or have any impact whatsoever on Shepard. Garrus will talk about Kaidan, but not Thane. In ME2 and LotSB, Liara and Kelly talk to you about Thane. Why not in ME3 after he dies? Why is there no substantial difference in story, scenes, dialogues, etc for Thanemancers? Why do certain LIs have ridiculously more screen time, conversations, information, etc in a way that is so disproportionate that it's not really excusable, even with Thane dying so early in the game.
As it stands now, there is no way to fix the romance, which is very flawed, without some more scenes and quests, which would be easiest to implement by trying to look into a cure. Then, maybe we could actually learn something about other drell and the Hanar and see prothean ruins on Kahje or do anything really.
Why did Bioware create a character and open him up for a romance arc, an extremely well done one I might add, in ME2, if only to close it off in ME3? Why not just never let him be an LI or have him die in ME2, when they'd at least have Chris to make it decent and we could go into ME3 and have other options not just, "Oh Thane died so you can only date Kaidan. Sucks if he died on Virmire. Have fun getting that achievement."
It's like they made this awesome trail through the ME universe, kept it decorated, interesting, has nice flowers, is obviously tended to. It gets prettier and prettier, and though we knew there might be a dead end in the future, we're content to follow the path because it's so good. We're fine with ending our journey in peace. Other parks come and see it and vote it best trail of the year. Those who follow the other paths can see it through the trees and complement how nice it looks. Then, we get to the ME3 section and all the flowers are dead, no ones been down here, the path disappears because the park rangers forgot it even existed, and all the other paths wind so far away from it that nobody notices. And we're stuck sitting here, forced to back track because it didn't end, it just stopped. There is no "equal treatment" or "closure". We worked just as hard to get here, why don't we deserve a good ending that is still appropriate and relevant (even if there's tragedy, even if it isn't as long, etc) to the path we took?
Wheeee for cheesy/weird analogies.
That's it, I don't get to answer anymore. We need word limits on these things or something.
I want a tragic, bittersweet outcome, but there wasn't one. It was emotionless and ignored. Shepard doesn't give any form, no matter how small because she is strong and a leader with psychological damage, of mourning or grief. Tears, anger, anything would have been nice. And the crew doesn't even seem to realize he's dead. They don't mention him, don't offer comfort, don't sort of distant themselves while she deals with losing a loved one. In ME3, Thane isn't a loved one, he's just a booty call that didn't matter or have any impact whatsoever on Shepard. Garrus will talk about Kaidan, but not Thane. In ME2 and LotSB, Liara and Kelly talk to you about Thane. Why not in ME3 after he dies? Why is there no substantial difference in story, scenes, dialogues, etc for Thanemancers? Why do certain LIs have ridiculously more screen time, conversations, information, etc in a way that is so disproportionate that it's not really excusable, even with Thane dying so early in the game.
As it stands now, there is no way to fix the romance, which is very flawed, without some more scenes and quests, which would be easiest to implement by trying to look into a cure. Then, maybe we could actually learn something about other drell and the Hanar and see prothean ruins on Kahje or do anything really.
Why did Bioware create a character and open him up for a romance arc, an extremely well done one I might add, in ME2, if only to close it off in ME3? Why not just never let him be an LI or have him die in ME2, when they'd at least have Chris to make it decent and we could go into ME3 and have other options not just, "Oh Thane died so you can only date Kaidan. Sucks if he died on Virmire. Have fun getting that achievement."
It's like they made this awesome trail through the ME universe, kept it decorated, interesting, has nice flowers, is obviously tended to. It gets prettier and prettier, and though we knew there might be a dead end in the future, we're content to follow the path because it's so good. We're fine with ending our journey in peace. Other parks come and see it and vote it best trail of the year. Those who follow the other paths can see it through the trees and complement how nice it looks. Then, we get to the ME3 section and all the flowers are dead, no ones been down here, the path disappears because the park rangers forgot it even existed, and all the other paths wind so far away from it that nobody notices. And we're stuck sitting here, forced to back track because it didn't end, it just stopped. There is no "equal treatment" or "closure". We worked just as hard to get here, why don't we deserve a good ending that is still appropriate and relevant (even if there's tragedy, even if it isn't as long, etc) to the path we took?
Wheeee for cheesy/weird analogies.
That's it, I don't get to answer anymore. We need word limits on these things or something.
Modifié par Niemalna, 06 avril 2012 - 08:29 .
#3723
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:30
daigakuinsei
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Hainkpe wrote...
You will die. Your time is short. Enjoy it while it lasts. Yet, you live. Why?daigakuinsei wrote...
Thoughts:
1. I'm not afflicted with a terminal illness; Thane is. You were told your time would be short, so enjoy it while it lasts.
Could you elaborate? There are some unstated assumptions in your post.
#3724
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:32
Laser-Eyes
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Visii wrote...
Julia_xo wrote...
Oh my God! I hope everything goes well. A million thanks to them (and to you Visii) for making this happen.
Yup! Check out the PAX Fanbook thread- I've put up some videos of the fanbook (with pictures) and will update it soon as the bioware panel starts and they have stuff to send me.
Hoping everything goes wonderfully!
#3725
Posté 06 avril 2012 - 08:34
Visii
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daigakuinsei wrote...
Hainkpe wrote...
You will die. Your time is short. Enjoy it while it lasts. Yet, you live. Why?daigakuinsei wrote...
Thoughts:
1. I'm not afflicted with a terminal illness; Thane is. You were told your time would be short, so enjoy it while it lasts.
Could you elaborate? There are some unstated assumptions in your post.
From the moment you are born, you begin to die.
You age, you grow, you blossom, weaken and wither. Yet you still laugh and love and enjoy life.
There was nothing to enjoy in Thane's appearance in ME3. We had no time with him. No time to enjoy his character, to talk to him more, to go on one last mission with him.
Elaboration enough?
