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[Julia_xo]

wildannie wrote...

Miss Krios wrote...

 Love story Jane Shepard and Thane Krios - sooo Amazing! 
by "DAO занят кемто другим :)"

youtu.be/paETLvxV6AY
And why such ending isn't present in game?!
 

What a massive improvement...that is the least we should have got .  However, even if they implemented something like that now it would be too little to late for me...

...must have cure/treatment and Thane alive and must have paramour achievement.

That video is beautifully put together. <3 Shepard actually seems to care that the man she loves is dead! She should have shown some emotion over it in the actual game.... too bad that didn't happen. <_<

I'm with Annie though. I want a cure/treatment option at this point.

[Julia_xo]

coldwetn0se wrote...
Ok, totally went off on a tangent, and now regretting that third cup o' joe
To the point:  Thane had a childhood stolen, a wife murdered, a son estranged, a terminal illness, and a resolution to make the galaxy a better place than when he lived in it.  However, his arc is changed by meeting Shepard, and through those actions, life becomes worth living.  But in the last game, he abandons that for his old way of thinking, but WITHOUT any real conviction.  When the poorly executed Kia Leng fight comes, it's as though they are trying to force this martyr badge on him, but again, without an actual cause to his "fight".  Shepard didn't NEED him to do this (even gameplay mechanics prove this; i.e. Kirahee, death of Salarian Councilor, Kia Leng's plot armor...), nor does it change anything of grand importance.  So, by the time we get to the 'deathbed' scene, everything feels completely contrived.  So for those that really like Thane (and found his character to be plenty rich without EVERY motha-truckin angsty piece o' ***t thrown at him) it all falls flat.  As if for naught.  And, like so many martyr wannabees (note: I don't believe his original writer wanted/or saw him as a martyr), he is forgotten.....literally!!!!

A choice to extend/save his life, and more thought and continuity to his character arc (especially romanced/friended), is what I had believed we would get......and we certainly did not.  All I can hope is that this gets addressed eventually, but I don't have a lot of faith of us getting that. 

You make perfect sense, Cold! It's funny you mention Anders since players had a choice to spare his life in the end.

I really don't understand BW's handling of Thane's character. I don't think Thane's ME2 writer knew what his ultimate fate would be. I don't think for a second that Thane's death was always set in stone, hence the hints that gave fans hope for a cure/treatment. Hell, BioWare even supported the fan-led Cure Thane Campaign.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they decided to kill him due to a lack of resources. It's easier to kill a character off than to write more content, pay the voice actor and render new scenes. Thane and the rest of the ME2 characters were sidelined and given less consideration, overall. It's sad to me that the FemShep specfic love interests received the worst treatment. No paramour achievement for either Thane or Jacob because their 'romances' were basically written off.

And yes, Thane's character suffered from character inconsistency. It was like his character development never happened. I feel like they didn't know what to do with him so they just made him fodder for Kai Leng hoping fans would be distracted by the flashy fight scene. Nevermind that the fight was poorly thought out and it made no sense that Shepard and the squad did nothing to help Thane subdue Kai Leng.

Thane's role can easily be taken over by Kirahee and if neither of them are available the Salarian councillor will die but it ultimately doesn't matter. Shepard still manages to stop the Coup. :/

I really hope BW are truly considering the fan feedback as they plan out DLC. I hope Thane will be given content and that it will be better than the throw-away role he received in the main game.

[JECW]

Julia_xo wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...
Ok, totally went off on a tangent, and now regretting that third cup o' joe
To the point:  Thane had a childhood stolen, a wife murdered, a son estranged, a terminal illness, and a resolution to make the galaxy a better place than when he lived in it.  However, his arc is changed by meeting Shepard, and through those actions, life becomes worth living.  But in the last game, he abandons that for his old way of thinking, but WITHOUT any real conviction.  When the poorly executed Kia Leng fight comes, it's as though they are trying to force this martyr badge on him, but again, without an actual cause to his "fight".  Shepard didn't NEED him to do this (even gameplay mechanics prove this; i.e. Kirahee, death of Salarian Councilor, Kia Leng's plot armor...), nor does it change anything of grand importance.  So, by the time we get to the 'deathbed' scene, everything feels completely contrived.  So for those that really like Thane (and found his character to be plenty rich without EVERY motha-truckin angsty piece o' ***t thrown at him) it all falls flat.  As if for naught.  And, like so many martyr wannabees (note: I don't believe his original writer wanted/or saw him as a martyr), he is forgotten.....literally!!!!

A choice to extend/save his life, and more thought and continuity to his character arc (especially romanced/friended), is what I had believed we would get......and we certainly did not.  All I can hope is that this gets addressed eventually, but I don't have a lot of faith of us getting that. 

You make perfect sense, Cold! It's funny you mention Anders since players had a choice to spare his life in the end.

I really don't understand BW's handling of Thane's character. I don't think Thane's ME2 writer knew what his ultimate fate would be. I don't think for a second that Thane's death was always set in stone, hence the hints that gave fans hope for a cure/treatment. Hell, BioWare even supported the fan-led Cure Thane Campaign.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they decided to kill him due to a lack of resources. It's easier to kill a character off than to write more content, pay the voice actor and render new scenes. Thane and the rest of the ME2 characters were sidelined and given less consideration, overall. It's sad to me that the FemShep specfic love interests received the worst treatment. No paramour achievement for either Thane or Jacob because their 'romances' were basically written off.

And yes, Thane's character suffered from character inconsistency. It was like his character development never happened. I feel like they didn't know what to do with him so they just made him fodder for Kai Leng hoping fans would be distracted by the flashy fight scene. Nevermind that the fight was poorly thought out and it made no sense that Shepard and the squad did nothing to help Thane subdue Kai Leng.

Thane's role can easily be taken over by Kirahee and if neither of them are available the Salarian councillor will die but it ultimately doesn't matter. Shepard still manages to stop the Coup. :/

I really hope BW are truly considering the fan feedback as they plan out DLC. I hope Thane will be given content and that it will be better than the throw-away role he received in the main game.

I completely agree.
They never would have done this to mShep. Why didn't he get the dying LI or have one of them dump him. Only femShep had to suffer that fate. I'm still trying to understand how you forget about a character that was everywhere in ME2.  It makes me really start to wonder who wrote Thane in ME3, or if he even had a real writer.

Modifié par JECW, 14 avril 2012 - 07:53 .

[Cyansomnia]

I always felt like Thane's death in ME3 was contrived. They figured since he was well-liked, already dying and isn't overly critical to the main plot they'd toss him at Kai Leng to get a rise out of us. The brief conversation with Thane and essentially no character development proves they didn't care overly much about him. No wait, scratch that... RETCON of his MASS EFFECT 2 character development.

The fact that it was all handled terribly lessened the emotional impact a great deal, more so if you romanced him. The relationship became incredibly shallow compared to what it was before.

I was left scratching my head going:
"Was that really my Shepard and Thane? No way, they wouldn't act like that."

I suppose it was too much to ask they would give it all closure in a respectful manner. I had absolute faith in them to do so, since ME2 was so incredibly good.

More the fool I am.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 14 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[coldwetn0se]

Julia_xo wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...
Ok, totally went off on a tangent, and now regretting that third cup o' joe
To the point:  Thane had a childhood stolen, a wife murdered, a son estranged, a terminal illness, and a resolution to make the galaxy a better place than when he lived in it.  However, his arc is changed by meeting Shepard, and through those actions, life becomes worth living.  But in the last game, he abandons that for his old way of thinking, but WITHOUT any real conviction.  When the poorly executed Kia Leng fight comes, it's as though they are trying to force this martyr badge on him, but again, without an actual cause to his "fight".  Shepard didn't NEED him to do this (even gameplay mechanics prove this; i.e. Kirahee, death of Salarian Councilor, Kia Leng's plot armor...), nor does it change anything of grand importance.  So, by the time we get to the 'deathbed' scene, everything feels completely contrived.  So for those that really like Thane (and found his character to be plenty rich without EVERY motha-truckin angsty piece o' ***t thrown at him) it all falls flat.  As if for naught.  And, like so many martyr wannabees (note: I don't believe his original writer wanted/or saw him as a martyr), he is forgotten.....literally!!!!

A choice to extend/save his life, and more thought and continuity to his character arc (especially romanced/friended), is what I had believed we would get......and we certainly did not.  All I can hope is that this gets addressed eventually, but I don't have a lot of faith of us getting that. 

You make perfect sense, Cold! It's funny you mention Anders since players had a choice to spare his life in the end.

I really don't understand BW's handling of Thane's character. I don't think Thane's ME2 writer knew what his ultimate fate would be. I don't think for a second that Thane's death was always set in stone, hence the hints that gave fans hope for a cure/treatment. Hell, BioWare even supported the fan-led Cure Thane Campaign.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they decided to kill him due to a lack of resources. It's easier to kill a character off than to write more content, pay the voice actor and render new scenes. Thane and the rest of the ME2 characters were sidelined and given less consideration, overall. It's sad to me that the FemShep specfic love interests received the worst treatment. No paramour achievement for either Thane or Jacob because their 'romances' were basically written off.

And yes, Thane's character suffered from character inconsistency. It was like his character development never happened. I feel like they didn't know what to do with him so they just made him fodder for Kai Leng hoping fans would be distracted by the flashy fight scene. Nevermind that the fight was poorly thought out and it made no sense that Shepard and the squad did nothing to help Thane subdue Kai Leng.

Thane's role can easily be taken over by Kirahee and if neither of them are available the Salarian councillor will die but it ultimately doesn't matter. Shepard still manages to stop the Coup. :/

I really hope BW are truly considering the fan feedback as they plan out DLC. I hope Thane will be given content and that it will be better than the throw-away role he received in the main game.

*Bolded for point*  It's that inconsistency that digs the knife in deeper; inconsistency for Thane's character AND Shepards.  And the "flashiness" (great choice of description, Julia) of the fight scene makes it an even harder *smack* to the face for those of us who cared soooo much for this character.  It was like handing over a lovely piece of art to a bunch of kindergarteners, with a handful of firecrackers....WEEEEEEEEEE!  It's just so poorly executed and jarring for those that adored Thane.  Ugh!

[coldwetn0se]

@Aislinn - *Cheers to the Fools* <head/desk><thunk!> Right there with ya......

@JECW - I find it so interesting on the occasion that I see someone write a post, where they mention Jacob or Thane, and praise bw for making Shep not "immune" to loss and disappointment....BLEH! I'm fairly certain their tune would be different if their love interests were written in such a manner, and if it ONLY happened to m!Shep. Two sides to every coin.....what works for one, doesn't for another......hence an RPG with <GASP> .......CHOICES!! Is that such a reach?? Sheesh....

[Cyansomnia]

Yeah, as I said before. People don't care unless it effects their game. Which is why I bring up said person's love interest and say 'So, what if this happened to them?'

They can't give me a good answer, because THEY KNOW it wouldn't be cool with them.

So, it would be perfectly acceptable if Liara decided to leave you for Feron? Or Garrus died at the hands of Kai Leng and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it?

It would have been far more 'effective' and 'impactful' if they'd done these things with the 'Big Five'.
(and I say this in all sarcasm, by the way. I love these characters, too.)

They knew if they did anything to spoil those characters it would be a sh*tstorm of epic proportions. So, they handled those romances well and ran out of time with the others. Hence what happened to poor Thane and Jacob. The sad thing is, Thane is a fairly well-liked character and it seems like an incredible waste to just throw him out the window.

It also sickens me that they decided to make Jacob look like a total jerk, especially after getting to know him and his principles in ME2. He has a few flaws, but he's still a man of integrity who tries to do the right thing. It's brought up several times in ME2 he wants to be a better person than his father was. They did the same thing to him as they did to Thane... take his character development from the last game and kick it aside like it never existed.

Just terrible.  Funny thing is, they tried to avoid the sh*tstorm and failed.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 14 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[utaker1988]

coldwetn0se wrote...

@Aislinn - *Cheers to the Fools* <head/desk><thunk!> Right there with ya......

@JECW - I find it so interesting on the occasion that I see someone write a post, where they mention Jacob or Thane, and praise bw for making Shep not "immune" to loss and disappointment....BLEH! I'm fairly certain their tune would be different if their love interests were written in such a manner, and if it ONLY happened to m!Shep. Two sides to every coin.....what works for one, doesn't for another......hence an RPG with <GASP> .......CHOICES!! Is that such a reach?? Sheesh....

Yes, cheers to the fools.  I've already said I must have been one for romancing Thane in EVERY damn playthrough.  But that was early on, now I don't feel like such a fool.  I'm happy that I stuck with who I felt my Shep belonged with and didn't go in another direction because it might turn out better.  Like me, she followed her heart and didn't fall in line like sheep to go in the popular direction.  Which is why there is a huge blackout area where my Paramour achievement should be.  While I'm happy I stuck with Thane, I'm NOT happy with what was done with him.  I want to make that clear, don't want anyone to miscontrue my happiness with staying with Thane with being happy with what happened to his character in ME3.  Because I'm not....not by a long shot.

Now imagine how many people would be so accepting that Shepard was not immune to loss if the following happened:
Cerberus attacked Liara's SB ship and her and everyone aboard were blown to pieces with no chance to save her first.
Tali decided to really help the flotilla, stay up in the skies and battle the geth.  In the process her ship gets turned into dust and no choice to convince her stay on the ground with you where she would live.
Garrus decides that Palevan is where he belongs because it's his people and gets killed by a Reaper with no option to convince him that you really want him on the Normandy.
VS takes the place of Thane/Kirrahe and fights Kai Leng and they die, once again, with no option to step in and stop them from getting killed.

The rage would be immense and I'm sure they would not like to hear, "Well it's war, sacrifices need to be made.  Since they are organics they would eventually die anyway, as we all do.  But you have to admit, they went out like heroes."  I'm sure that would go over like a lead balloon and they would get pissed off everytime someone said crap like that.  But it is quite ok to say that stuff to those that got shafted. Then we'd have to hear the lovely retort, "Yeah but they weren't dying when we met them."  Really?  Dying starts at the moment of conception/fertilization.

[coldwetn0se]

utaker1988 wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

@Aislinn - *Cheers to the Fools* <head/desk><thunk!> Right there with ya......

@JECW - I find it so interesting on the occasion that I see someone write a post, where they mention Jacob or Thane, and praise bw for making Shep not "immune" to loss and disappointment....BLEH! I'm fairly certain their tune would be different if their love interests were written in such a manner, and if it ONLY happened to m!Shep. Two sides to every coin.....what works for one, doesn't for another......hence an RPG with <GASP> .......CHOICES!! Is that such a reach?? Sheesh....

Yes, cheers to the fools.  I've already said I must have been one for romancing Thane in EVERY damn playthrough.  But that was early on, now I don't feel like such a fool.  I'm happy that I stuck with who I felt my Shep belonged with and didn't go in another direction because it might turn out better.  Like me, she followed her heart and didn't fall in line like sheep to go in the popular direction.  Which is why there is a huge blackout area where my Paramour achievement should be.  While I'm happy I stuck with Thane, I'm NOT happy with what was done with him.  I want to make that clear, don't want anyone to miscontrue my happiness with staying with Thane with being happy with what happened to his character in ME3.  Because I'm not....not by a long shot.

Now imagine how many people would be so accepting that Shepard was not immune to loss if the following happened:
Cerberus attacked Liara's SB ship and her and everyone aboard were blown to pieces with no chance to save her first.
Tali decided to really help the flotilla, stay up in the skies and battle the geth.  In the process her ship gets turned into dust and no choice to convince her stay on the ground with you where she would live.
Garrus decides that Palevan is where he belongs because it's his people and gets killed by a Reaper with no option to convince him that you really want him on the Normandy.
VS takes the place of Thane/Kirrahe and fights Kai Leng and they die, once again, with no option to step in and stop them from getting killed.

The rage would be immense and I'm sure they would not like to hear, "Well it's war, sacrifices need to be made.  Since they are organics they would eventually die anyway, as we all do.  But you have to admit, they went out like heroes."  I'm sure that would go over like a lead balloon and they would get pissed off everytime someone said crap like that.  But it is quite ok to say that stuff to those that got shafted. Then we'd have to hear the lovely retort, "Yeah but they weren't dying when we met them."  Really?  Dying starts at the moment of conception/fertilization.

*Tips hat to @utaker in Vanilla Ice fashion....'Word'*  (radio was stuck in a bad place, now I can't get that song outta my head...GAH!)

That is why I refuse to change out my signature; it's not as if Kolyat is walking around the Citadel with a little orange box, coin slot on the top, and a picture of Thane's face on the side, "The face of Keprals.  Won't you please help?"

Good lordy no!  He is not the sum of his disease.....for the bazillionth time.  <whip/dead/horse>

[RShara]

Why are we on the second page?

And yes, being defined by an illness is so silly, I just don't understand it at all...

[Aryss0410]

Just stopping by to remind everyone that there are only 11 days left to get submissions in to The Tribute. I hope to see all of your names on the contributor list! =)

[utaker1988]

I'll be doing that and finishing the other thing I still have to write. I want to be serious (mostly) and it's hard when Courtney keeps running in here every two minutes and disrupting my train of thought. And, I have to find some cute screenshots of Thane and Shep, not the pervie ones I keep tossing up in here.

[Julia_xo]

@ Aryss0410  I'm working on writing something. Just trying to get my muse to cooperate. 

JECW wrote...
I completely agree.
They never would have done this to mShep. Why didn't he get the dying LI or have one of them dump him. Only femShep had to suffer that fate. I'm still trying to understand how you forget about a character that was everywhere in ME2.  It makes me really start to wonder who wrote Thane in ME3, or if he even had a real writer.

You're absolutely right. M!Shep gets to keep all his options. Even though Jack and Miranda also suffered from reduced content, those relationships at least "count" (you get the achievement).

No one dumps M!Shep. None of his potential LIs get a forced death.It's patently unfair. I thought BW were one of the few gaming companies that actually valued their female fans. They even claimed Thane was created to appeal to female gamers. In ME3, they fnally upped their game and started to promote FemShep. She got a new default face based on fan input, her own trailer, she's even on the cover if you flip the sleeve in the game case. I was really pleased by that. Only we get the game and find out it was mostly superficial. Content that was specific to her (the Thane and Jacob romances) were basically tossed out.

As for Thane's writer in ME3, they probably just asked the coffee guy to scribble something down.

[PhoenixDove1]

Just wanted to say excellent flow chart! Why couldn't bioware do that

[JECW]

Julia_xo wrote...

@ Aryss0410  I'm working on writing something. Just trying to get my muse to cooperate. 

JECW wrote...
I completely agree.
They never would have done this to mShep. Why didn't he get the dying LI or have one of them dump him. Only femShep had to suffer that fate. I'm still trying to understand how you forget about a character that was everywhere in ME2.  It makes me really start to wonder who wrote Thane in ME3, or if he even had a real writer.

You're absolutely right. M!Shep gets to keep all his options. Even though Jack and Miranda also suffered from reduced content, those relationships at least "count" (you get the achievement).

No one dumps M!Shep. None of his potential LIs get a forced death.It's patently unfair. I thought BW were one of the few gaming companies that actually valued their female fans. They even claimed Thane was created to appeal to female gamers. In ME3, they fnally upped their game and started to promote FemShep. She got a new default face based on fan input, her own trailer, she's even on the cover if you flip the sleeve in the game case. I was really pleased by that. Only we get the game and find out it was mostly superficial. Content that was specific to her (the Thane and Jacob romances) were basically tossed out.

As for Thane's writer in ME3, they probably just asked the coffee guy to scribble something down.

True.
All that work they put into Thane only to toss him aside along with the rest of the ME2 squad. I couldn't even find Thane in the guide. I really did miss a lot of the ME2 squad. Especially Thane.
I was thinking someone in the mailroom did the writing.

[Julia_xo]

@JECW I will never stop being bitter that Thane isn't listed on the character list in the guide, yet Kahlee Sanders is....

PhoenixDove1 wrote...

Just wanted to say excellent flow chart! Why couldn't bioware do that

If I'm not mistaken RShara (who made that chart) said she was submitting it to the Thane fanbook which is being sent to BioWare. Hopefully, it will give them ideas.

[RShara]

Indeed I have. Heck, I'd print it out, roll it up, and smack people upside the head with it if that'd help

[JECW]

Julia_xo wrote...

@JECW I will never stop being bitter that Thane isn't listed on the character list in the guide, yet Kahlee Sanders is....

I couldn't even find him where they had the romances. They had people listed that aren't even romance options, but Thane wasn't anywhere. Did they just forget how to spell his name?
Kahlee Sanders is barely in that game, but they put her in the guide. I can find everyone else but Thane.

[Julia_xo]

RShara wrote...

Indeed I have. Heck, I'd print it out, roll it up, and smack people upside the head with it if that'd help

Yay! I love how the chart turned out and I'm so glad it's going to be included in the fanbook.

JECW wrote...

Julia_xo wrote...

@JECW I will never stop being bitter that Thane isn't listed on the character list in the guide, yet Kahlee Sanders is....

I couldn't even find him where they had the romances. They had people listed that aren't even romance options, but Thane wasn't anywhere. Did they just forget how to spell his name?
Kahlee Sanders is barely in that game, but they put her in the guide. I can find everyone else but Thane.

I'm wondering if they even remembered his name. I'm curious though, is Jacob in the romance section?

[utaker1988]

No Thane in the book for a reason I'm willing to finally share with you. Using the powers of Space Magic and the influence of StarChild himself, I convinced the writer of that guide to leave Thane out. Why? Because I Drell-napped him and have him tied to my bed. Sorry ladies but I could not give those who have the guide hope that he'll have a good role. He only has the role I intended him to have, to break all your hearts so that I could live with my decision to keep him to myself easier to swallow.

I have the guide but I only use it to beat down people who come to my door. Maybe one day I'll actually open the thing.

[JECW]

Julia_xo wrote...

I'm wondering if they even remembered his name. I'm curious though, is Jacob in the romance section?

Yes.
Jacob is in the romance section. It also tells you the romance is over, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Modifié par JECW, 15 avril 2012 - 07:42 .

[RShara]

Excuse me while I curse

Gods seriously could BW b-slap Femsheps any further?

Modifié par RShara, 15 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[JECW]

It really is sad how they left him out completely. Like he never existed.

[sunnie7699]

JECW wrote...

Julia_xo wrote...

@JECW I will never stop being bitter that Thane isn't listed on the character list in the guide, yet Kahlee Sanders is....

I couldn't even find him where they had the romances. They had people listed that aren't even romance options, but Thane wasn't anywhere. Did they just forget how to spell his name?
Kahlee Sanders is barely in that game, but they put her in the guide. I can find everyone else but Thane.

That's just-- wha-- I can't even-- how-- WHY BIOWARE. As if my heart wasn't shattered enough

[blueshepard]

Hello guys,

well here it is again the "advertisment" post for the Fanbook:

2 weeks are left right now, we have 125 pages of contributions so far Great job - please keep up the good work

If you know anyone who want to participate in it I beg you to tell him to write me a PM, a note on DA (raira1984) or write an e-mail to thane-fanbook@gmx.de.

It would be great if we get some more pages at all.

Next steps:
mythlover20 is writing the introduction these days, so I beg you to look regularly to the posts in the group:
Fanbook introduction discussion
for any news, since we will post any progress there.
Use this post or the following two:
What we liked about Thane's ME2 Romance...
What we hated about Thane's ME3 romance
to tell us what you want to see in the introduction at all.
As soon as the introduction is ready we will also post the news in this Threads again of course.

I created a poll for the binding:
POLL
and wanted to ask you to vote there.

2 weeks aren't really much at all, we are working hard to get things up in time I really hope that you like the result so far. I wanted to thank you again for all the contributions and the nice and comforting words I received the last time I am really happy to organise this project at all

And of course, please don't forget about the new LI project for all ME2 LIs from Visii, Aryss and Nick: The Tribute

So now, back to the discussions and sorry for my interruption

Modifié par yamainu1984, 15 avril 2012 - 06:16 .