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Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance


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#4851
coldwetn0se

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Emeraldfern wrote...

Meh, forwarded it. It's just a suggestion, but a part of me hopes they atleast give it some thought.Image IPB

[Edit] Wait wha? I uploaded it 11 minutes ago and there are already 7 people looking at the document Image IPB
My paranoia is tingling...

[Edit 2]

He tweeted back!
 
@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture Def possible technically. But not sure it would work artistically or satisfy fans.

Quick What do I answer?


Unfortunately I don't have a NON-COMBATIVE response to this (bolded)!  Artistically???  Nothing artistic about his romance (lack....void) in me3, or his character flip/flop, or his completely nonsensical KL fight, or that deathbed scene with ZERO emotion from Shepard.....WTF!! 

Sorry.....just getting royally p*ssed off, right now!

*EDIT*
And because it seems appropriate for our discussion....TOP

Image IPB

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 06 mai 2012 - 02:16 .


#4852
gearseffect

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JECW wrote...

Emeraldfern wrote...

Meh, forwarded it. It's just a suggestion, but a part of me hopes they atleast give it some thought.Image IPB

[Edit] Wait wha? I uploaded it 11 minutes ago and there are already 7 people looking at the document Image IPB
My paranoia is tingling...

[Edit 2]

He tweeted back!
 
@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture Def possible technically. But not sure it would work artistically or satisfy fans.

Quick What do I answer?


Who does he want to satisfy? Poeple who don't like Thane or care about him.
It would satisfy fans. I know most of us would be happy with it.


Oh well here we go again with the whole stupid Artistic Integrity BS, and ya know it would make Thane happy so they only people it would make unhappy are the stupid dumb jerk fans who don't give 2 poops so long as their LI don't get killed or those who wanted to doom the whole galaxy and ya know don't want anyone a happy ending.

Heh I'd be jumping up and down with this idea DLC being done but then again I'm in the underdogs group with you all. Heck I'd like Thane to live too, and ya know the longer his death sits it feels much worse, I don't think there has been a character death done in such a bad way as Thane's was. I mean really it's like no one ever knew Thane.

#4853
JECW

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I honestly just think Bioware is lazy. I think they are using the small minority of people who want him dead as an excuse not to save him or fix his romance. If Bioware did give an option to save Thane most of these people wouldn't really care. They would get over it and move on. Why Bioware would listen to any of them is beyond me.

#4854
coldwetn0se

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Serious Thane
Image IPB

He is rather "disquieted" by the me3 teams lack of attention.....Image IPBImage IPB

#4855
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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ShadyGerbilz wrote...

For my fellow Thanemancers: This will probably ruin your day, but I thought I'd share anyway. :crying: My apologizes.
Its from Patrick weekes Via Twitter...

24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3k4zw70ql1r292pho1_500.png


To be honest, they do not have my sympathy. Not even a little. They put most of us through a nightmare. Heck, I still feel like I am living in one. The poster I am working on is a nightmare, but it's completely worth it. Thane is worth every moment of it.

They messed it up.. so they should fix it. Unless they think it's okay to continue hurting their fans. I'll be sure to use the word "nightmare" in my letter to Bioware.

That's all I got to say about that. <_< <fan rage moment>

#4856
RShara

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Anytime I think of BW's actual intentions toward Thane, I just get pissed. So I just live in my little world of denial and fantasy and think that we're actually making a difference :(

#4857
ShadyGerbilz

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Bioware is just a bunch of money hungry jerks. They go where they think they will get the most profit. They could care less about the fans, or the fact that we've invested in these characters..if they did they wouldn't pulled that stunt with the endings. ((I actually have a quote where one of the writers said he knew the ending would tick off alot of people..I'll have to search for it and post)) And this "artistic integrity" is just an excuse to be lazy. Godforbid the rest of us actually have an opinion.

#4858
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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Oh yeah, it was a combination of greed, sexism and popularity. Perhaps I am also too in denial. I just can't possibly fathom what happen here. Maybe I am trying to hard to make logic out of something that is completely illogical.

Shady... don't even get me started on "artistic integrity". What a load of bull. I am entitled to artistic integrity because I do not make money off my art... they on the other hand are a business. It's like going to an ice cream shop and ordering chocolate ice cream. Instead you get strawberry ice cream. It's not what you order and when you say something, they tell you that it's what they feel you should have.

Okay I need to stop... otherwise this post is going to turn into a novel. lol.

Modifié par Squeegee83, 06 mai 2012 - 02:40 .


#4859
Emeraldfern

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So I answered with these tweets:

@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture Def possible technically. But not sure it would work artistically or satisfy fans.

@PatrickWeekes And after checking on BSN. Yes, fans would def. appreciate it!

I also wrote this in response to this:

@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture his core concept is dying man seeking redemption. Players romancing him knew that.

@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture Again, entirely possible I don't get him. Liked him, but not my char.


@PatrickWeekes For me he developed from being content with his fate to someone who finds something to live for.

@PatrickWeekes And that was the part of him I loved the most.

--------

I know he said "He was a dying man, romancers knew" (and trust me I almost lost my cool there) but.. like he said it was possible he "didn't get it" so I let it slide....

-----

He also wrote this:

@Emeraldfern1 @AislinnTrista @mrsvulture Mind you, I also liked La Boheme's ending, while Rent's ending ticked me off.


@MrsVulture @emeraldfern1 @aislinntrista Liked all ME2 romances, but he and Garrus had lovely sensitive love scenes.

-----

#4860
Cyansomnia

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This is sort of encouraging:

https://twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/198962920992944128

Me: "I think it's lack of content beforehand and no real reaction to his death that people don't like."

Him: "Agree. Hope one day we can address that somehow."

He also said in a few tweets that he didn't write Thane, so he may not 'fully understand his character'. Patrick also encouraged positive feedback and people's opinions. He's open to listening if you keep it civil.  So yeah, be nice.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 06 mai 2012 - 02:48 .


#4861
coldwetn0se

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Aislinn Trista wrote...

This is sort of encouraging:

https://twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/198962920992944128

Me: "I think it's lack of content beforehand and no real reaction to his death that people don't like."

Him: "Agree. Hope one day we can address that somehow."

He also said in a few tweets that he didn't write Thane, so he may not 'fully understand his character'. Patrick also encouraged positive feedback and people's opinions. He's open to listening if you keep it civil. He said they want people to let them know what they want.


Here in lies the problem.....they say they want feedback, so....we give the feedback.  Do they actually listen/hear?  Not sure they do.  It has never been revealed (at least I don't believe) who wrote Thane in me3.....if PW doesn't have a great grasp of Thane's character, perhaps someone who does would be more appropriate for us to pass these thoughts, ideas, comments and so forth, on to.  I'm not saying that PW has done a thing wrong, and I am very glad that at least one of the BW writers is responding, but........*sigh*  Call it "loosing faith", but I fear that our voices are ending at these tweets.

@emerald and @aislinn (and anyone else I have forgotten to mention who tweets) - you have all done a fantastic job expressing yourselves about Thane on twitter.  I have the highest regard for you all.  I, unfortunately, would end up sounding like Perpetually Drunk Shepard if I started tweeting (don't even have an account; never have).......not good for our cause.....doh!Image IPB

#4862
Guest_Challenge Everything_*

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Umm, I'm new here. Just wanted to stop by for a minute, hope that's all right.
I recently romanced Thane in my quick ME2 playthrough on Insanity, since I needed the achievement and his loyalty mission is one of the few that doesn't involve combat.
I think by the second time I encountered romance dialogue with him I realised that he's a great character, more so than I'd previously thought, and that he was a good romance option, which I had previously doubted.
My immediate reaction to this discovery was basically (as I was aware of his fate in ME3 by then), “Damn. BioWare, how could you do this? What about the Thane romancers?”
Point being, although his death wasn't entirely unexpected, and was done amazingly (in a tragic sort of way) , I support your protesting. I wish you luck. 

Modifié par DeadlyHaven, 06 mai 2012 - 03:21 .


#4863
JECW

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Has anyone asked on twitter who did write Thane?

#4864
Emeraldfern

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@Aislinn Trista

Indeed. Keeping it civil benefits both fans and BW.

I know keeping our feelings in check is difficult many times.

We've all been there when looking at "Thane died deal with it"or "I didn't romance him but I think you are being whiny fangirls" posts, myself included.

But I would accomplish nothing if I resorted to being rude. The person I directed my rudeness at would either flame back or downright ignore me. And the only one who loses on that deal is me.
And the same logic applies to when statements (or lack of it) from BW makes my skin crawl. I gain nothing by throwing personal insults at BW employees no matter how much I am angry at them for how they treated Thane or most of the ME2 cast.

/Note this post is not me saying being angry with BW is wrong (Heck, there is no way I can keep myself from cussing out loud in front of my monitor) but that it is importat that we don't resort to direct flaming or rudeness towards anyone.
(Which for the record, I think we've accomplished so farImage IPB )

@JECW

I don't think Weekes would answer that.

People have twisted his words around at times when he revealed who wrote what, and in particular whenever he has addressed anything remotely pertaining the ending.

He isn't comfortable sharing things that puts his colleagues on a lynching pole.

And I can actually honestly understand him on that point.

Particularly considering what happened to that female writer on the DA2 team (I forgot her name).

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 06 mai 2012 - 03:18 .


#4865
JECW

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I think most people are being civil, but I have to wonder if we are really accomplishing anything.
Patrick Weekes says he really doesn't understand the character. He probably likes Thane, but I'm not sure he really cares much about what happened to him.

#4866
coldwetn0se

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DeadlyHaven wrote...

Umm, I'm new here. 
I recently romanced Thane in my quick ME2 playthrough on Insanity, since I needed the achievement and his loyalty mission is one of the few that doesn't involve combat.
I think by the second time I encountered romance dialogue with him I realised that he's a great character, more so than I'd previously thought, and that he was a good romance option, which I had previously doubted.
My immediate reaction to this discovery was (as I was aware of his fate in ME3), “Oh my god. BioWare, how could you do this? What about the Thane fans?”
Point being, although his death wasn't entirely unexpected, and was done amazingly (in a tragi csort of way) , I support your protesting. I wish you all luck. 


Thank you for the support.   Enjoy your ME2 Thane romance.....it's fantastic (biased, admittedlyImage IPB

#4867
Emeraldfern

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JECW wrote...

I think most people are being civil, but I have to wonder if we are really accomplishing anything.
Patrick Weekes says he really doesn't understand the character. He probably likes Thane, but I'm not sure he really cares much about what happened to him.



Well the only thing we can do is keep bugging them I say. Image IPB
They've only won once we admit defeat so to speak.
As for what Weekes thinks of Thane I can't say.
But I do believe he is genuinely interested in the ME fanbase as a whole, and we as fans of Thane, we are part of that.

#4868
Visii

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About Thane being a hero...

He's not exactly a hero-type character. He didn't die for any clear-cut sins, or for personal redemption like Mordin.

Hear me out- Wrex would die for the krogan. Legion and Tali would gladly die for their people. Mordin, as said before, would die to right what he saw was a wrong he had abetted And of course, Shepard would die to bring about galactic peace.

This of course is also taken in consideration with the fact that nearly all the aforementioned deaths are avoidable. But Thane dying to protect the Salarian Councillor?? Thane dying to protect Kahje, to protect the Hanar, I could see. He got that thing done on his eyes. He has a great respect for them. That is clear from ME2.

But not to protect the Salarian Councillor, not when his role is easily fulfilled by another, not when there was almost no interaction with him, romanced or friendship-wise, and then almost no mention of him after the fact.

#4869
RShara

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Have they said anything about The Book so far?

#4870
Emeraldfern

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Didn't Weekes say something back on April 26th? I could have sworn I saw something on his twitter...

[Edit] Found it:

@sirj87 The ME2 Romance Book that fans gave us at PAX East (which I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE PICTURE OF) had some great ideas, too.

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 06 mai 2012 - 03:47 .


#4871
coldwetn0se

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*Perpetually Drunk Shepard is lying in her aquarium....(yeah, yeah.....Jack was right; blowin' a big hole through the damn thing rendered it useless to hold any form of liquid.....blah, belch, wuteva...)  She's licking at the little metal ball of the space hamsters water bottle (now filled with Gin).*

PDS - "Why did they haf to give you dammabble Keprals!  Wasn't your past pathetic enuff as it was?  Maybe they should have thrown in a few boils on your pretty green face___"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "Siha, my people have been suffering Kepral's for a long time.  I was not special in any way from them.  Nor did my past make me immune."
PDS - "__or maybe your house burnned down too....could've made your kid blind....hell AND deaf___"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "I don't think they were intending me to be quite so....anguished."
PDS - "_____you could have defaulted on your mortgage, had a clerical error from the tax collectors and now you owe a bazillion credits_____"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "This is sounding slightly over the top, Siha.  Perhaps we should just make out for a bit."
PDS - "_____cold sores on your lips, gout, genetial warts__"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "This is disturbing."
*Thane notices that Perpetually Drunk Shepard is typing something on a datapad while having this conversation.*
Thane in Hallucination Form - "Siha, what are you typing?.....Are you "tweeting"??......Siha, please.......Shepard.....ULEE!  Stop giving them ideas!!"
PDS - "....wanna lick my ball?"

#4872
ShadyGerbilz

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 @ Squeegee83 I think pride also has a part in this. The company is too proud to admit they made a mistake and fix it. Bioware is like a child, you tell them to do something and they naturally want to do the exact opposite..Or drag their feet to do it. Example: Extended cut DLC.

The games are made for the fans not the other way around. Number one rule of business, "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT". I guess Bioware didn't get the memo. 

Modifié par ShadyGerbilz, 06 mai 2012 - 03:50 .


#4873
JECW

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Visii wrote...

About Thane being a hero...

He's not exactly a hero-type character. He didn't die for any clear-cut sins, or for personal redemption like Mordin.

Hear me out- Wrex would die for the krogan. Legion and Tali would gladly die for their people. Mordin, as said before, would die to right what he saw was a wrong he had abetted And of course, Shepard would die to bring about galactic peace.

This of course is also taken in consideration with the fact that nearly all the aforementioned deaths are avoidable. But Thane dying to protect the Salarian Councillor?? Thane dying to protect Kahje, to protect the Hanar, I could see. He got that thing done on his eyes. He has a great respect for them. That is clear from ME2.

But not to protect the Salarian Councillor, not when his role is easily fulfilled by another, not when there was almost no interaction with him, romanced or friendship-wise, and then almost no mention of him after the fact.


I see it as Biowares way of trying to give Thane their bad version of a heroic death. I guess they forgot that Shepard and her squad had guns. It just proves that they don't know or understand this character that they created.

#4874
Dont Kaidan Me

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See, here's the thing.
I tend to agree with Weekes that the suggestion wouldn't work artistically or satisfy fans. Not that I don't think the suggestion is a great one, because I do!

But what really burned my britches about the entire Thane in 3 experience was: the complete contradiction in his ideology, 3 autodialog options, crap death scene for one who romanced him, a letter post mortem that was supposed to wrap things up all nice (which was actually touching until I found out that if you played a particular dlc you've already received the letter? Is this true?), and, finally, no reaction whatsoever from No Empathy Shepard and the suddenly amnesiac and ambivalent teammates who battled with Thane. Even Bailey, who had a vested interest in Thane and his son in 2, suddenly acts like he doesn't even know him.

And to push the knife in further, female Shepard gets sh** for romance options in comparison to the male Shepard. No way they can talk themselves out of that one.

Honestly, I don't know how that can be fixed in a possible follow up dlc. Annnnd, my initial experience has already been soiled. So. As much as I would like there to be a redo on this, in order for it to be affective for me, they'd have to rewrite the entire storyline with him.

Accepting him as a "dying drell" was never the issue. Their crappy writing is the issue.

I don't know if I'm repeating myself in this thread (forgive me if so), but I mentioned that in the beginning, when I see the legs behind the Illusive Man, I was CONVINCED that Thane had gone to the dark side, because the Illusive Man had found a cure for Kepral's, and was now cornered into betraying Shepard. Now, that would be rough if he had been a love interest, but gee. Wouldn't it have made for a much more compelling plot? Then he comes back to redeem himself and dies at the hand of Leng with a final show of his badass moves? 

...sigh.

Modifié par Dont Kaidan Me, 06 mai 2012 - 04:45 .


#4875
gearseffect

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Visii wrote...

About Thane being a hero...

He's not exactly a hero-type character. He didn't die for any clear-cut sins, or for personal redemption like Mordin.

Hear me out- Wrex would die for the krogan. Legion and Tali would gladly die for their people. Mordin, as said before, would die to right what he saw was a wrong he had abetted And of course, Shepard would die to bring about galactic peace.

This of course is also taken in consideration with the fact that nearly all the aforementioned deaths are avoidable. But Thane dying to protect the Salarian Councillor?? Thane dying to protect Kahje, to protect the Hanar, I could see. He got that thing done on his eyes. He has a great respect for them. That is clear from ME2.

But not to protect the Salarian Councillor, not when his role is easily fulfilled by another, not when there was almost no interaction with him, romanced or friendship-wise, and then almost no mention of him after the fact.



You bring up an exalent point here, and I was wondering have you seen the sceen with Kirrahee in Thane's place dying for the Salarian Councillor?

I never thought about it this way until just now, but now if you think abut how Kirrahee was clocked and invisable when Kai tried to shoot/stab whatever it was to the Salarian Concillor atttempting to kill him but Kirrahee was there and took the hit while invisable and be came unclocked and Kai got all mad and took off running with Shep and Co in presuite.

Maybe that scene was origially intended and played out with Kirrahee, or unnamed salarian STG dude, but BW decided they wanted some one players knew from the series to make the death hit them, and given Kirrahee can die on Virmire and is dead in the defult un imported save games, maybe BW just looked around and said well look heres Thane let's totally throw him in there.

In fact if you do the Kirrahee scene when your on the Normandy and Joker is talking with Thane over the radio and all, well in the Kirrahee version Joker finds an emergancy SOS from Bailey being broadcast saying C-Sec has been taken by Ceberus, and all Radio chanles are compirmised until C-Sec head quarters can be retaken from Cerberus.

I never really thought much about it that way until I read your post Visii, but now it makes a bit more sense that it would have been done with Kirrahee or unnamed Salarian STG dude, and somewhere along the lines BW decided to cut coners Make un-named Salarian STG dude Kirrahee as the seconday and if alive, and then they threw Thane in there because well they just were lazy and hey look Thane's over at the hospital he's conviantly abvilbe and he's someone players know, lets do that.

I don't but if that's what happened but it certainly could have, and the way the Krriahee scene played there wasn't anytime for Shep to jump in the middle of a fight because well like I said.

Anyway I'll stop rambling, and go see if I can find a youtube version of the Kirrahee death by Kai