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[Dont Kaidan Me]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...
I do want to ask something, though: Assuming the EC turns out to prove the Indoctrination Theory (please yes, Star Kid is lying through his holographic teeth) we would probably still get an ending where Shepard could die but it would hopefully be more like in www.youtube.com/watch this fan edit with Shepard taking her last gasps and then leaving this world behind. My question is: Would you like an "afterlife" sequence, or would you consider that a more meaningful conclusion to the Thane romance arc, if they can't bring him back? I am thinking of something that would invoke the imagery of Thane's poems and prayers, with Shepard in white walking away from the sea, the sand between her toes up towards Thane standing on the dunes above with his outreached hand. 

Is that something that you'd consider an acceptable compromise, perhaps if it included some more scenes with Shepard thinking about Thane, like the picture with the VS in ME2?

Greetings... I'm a newcomer as well, as it took me some time to digest this travesty. In an ideal ME world, I would have loved an entirely new rewrite of not only Thane's romance, but character development and interaction as a whole, and wider results of the dialog wheel selections. Sometimes you'd have three choices and the result would pretty much be the same for all. The story was so linear, and if you didn't follow that one path, everything became disjointed. I could go on about the deficiencies...

However, I'm receptive to your idea. At the very least, it would add some sort of connection. It could never make up for the ridiculous lack of dialog (or Shepard's apparent apathy and the crew's ambivalence which was greaty perplexing). Your method of resolution would be fine by me, understanding the logistical issues and so forth. Anything that would present Thane in a better light, expansion of his storyline, and the opportunity for a more justified romance would be welcomed.

Modifié par Dont Kaidan Me, 06 mai 2012 - 10:39 .

[sunnie7699]

@Delerius_Jedi Whoa wait did Chris L'Etoile actually say that he left because he didn't want to work for EA?? Wow.. I thought he didn't actually specify why he left, but it was kind of implied that he wasn't happy with the direction Bioware was going in.. I dunno. They spent way too much time and money on advertising, it got to the point where a lot of people started worrying that the game itself might turn out to be crap as a result (and it was.. in some aspects obviously). I mean what was with that space edition nonsense?

[RGC_Ines]

gearseffect wrote...

I have something I'd like to say while we are on the subject of the whole "You knew Thane could die"

Well what if given that there is 2 years between ME1 and ME2 what if well you know why Ashley or Kaidan had a giant cob up their @ss about Shep They moved on and got married and maybe had a kid or two. Oh cr@p wouldn't that be really sh!ty, or what if well you knew that Liara could have been banging Feron and she was oh Cr@p.

I'm sorry I should stop, but I'm not because the limited budget issue is another half @ssed excuses as far as I'm concerned and I shall point out my reasons
1.Live Action Trailers 2 versions DudeShep and FemShep
2.Live Action Trailers with wanna be New Dudes
3.Multiplayer wast of money wast of space, and fans really could and would have been happy with out it
4.Advertising splurges everywhere
5.Twitter deaths, not in the game but on Twitter Really?
6.Space Copies of ME3
7.Every big media thing had their head up BW/EA's @ss praising the game a Land Mark that sets a New Bar for Story Telling, 10 out of 10 perfect review, and this was before March even hit.
8.ALL this wasted money and huge expenses

SO I don't buy the limited budget BS, I do buy that some dumb@sses didn't have their priorities straight and in order.
Anyone know if there is any Thane content VO work out there that got cut from the game?

Also any one else think that dude that does Kaidan's voice looks like a child molester? It's kind of a big gap between the dude in ME Kaidan and the dude doing the voice for the dude in the game. Don't ya think? OK I'll stop right there.

You forgot also about Chobot=Allers..Im curious just how many players get her...I never took her on Normandy, never talk to her..She had so little to offer in game, but I think she had a lot in RL as a jurnalist...  

[utaker1988]

@ Welcome Delerius_Jedi and thank you so much for your support!

@RGC I told Allers No on my first playthrough because it was Cameron and she just didn't like her, well she just doesn't like reporters. Hope told her Yes, only because she figured it would up the amount of available people to troll.

I hope BW does do something for Thane, I just keep holding on because well, they haven't said no yet. Even then, I guess it will go from, "hmmmm, you said No? Well, let me keep trying to make you say yes." After this is addressed, I suppose I can go for the next thing I want. Yeah, I'm greedy. I will ask them for an Airlock option. What I would give to throw Allers out of it. And Traynor, the Salarian Dalatrass, Hackett (yes, Hackett, I hold no love for the guy for a long list of reasons), the Death Wall, and whomever looks at my Shep wrong.

[ShadyGerbilz]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

This was the issue I had as well - but it's not confined to Thane - every character who wasn't in ME1 is more or less sidelined in ME3. This was disappointing but if we look at the cold realities of game development, they would have needed another 18 months devoted solely to story and content production if they were going to give equal reverence to every character in the series. They had to choose, that much is obvious, and they chose the characters with the most chance of making it through the whole game. 

^ True, Bioware bit off more than they could chew when it comes to characters in ME. And because of it they were forced to choose between them for the final product. So why create new characters when you already have your hands full with the rest? Especially when these new teammates are eating up limited space.
I'm talking about EDI ((not really new but eating up space nonetheless)), James, and Javik. Don't get me wrong I love Javik but if I had a choose between him or Thane..I'd choose Thane in a heartbeat. Why?, because I know him!

We've already developed attachments to these characters, we should be saying goodbye; Not introducing more.  As far as I know, there was no need storywise to have any of the new additions to the team.Thank you Bioware, but  we have enough already. 

[Fraevar]

@Tashash

Oh no, don't misunderstand me. I am actually highly critical of the fact that they had to choose which characters/plotlines to give proper treatment to after they had already been created. In my mind, this is exactly the reason why a company that keeps claiming they're all about the story should delay release. Looking back at BioWare history; Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect were all delayed twice or thrice because BioWare prior to the acquisition was willing to put in the time and effort required to ensure the game they shipped was the best they could make it, and what's more they were able to convince their publishers (for KotOR and ME1) that it was in their best interest to do so.

Now, I wouldn't call any of the three games mentioned above flawless gems, every game has something that could be improved but when you played them and more importantly: when you finished them, they felt as if you'd played and finished a complete experience and reached a satisfying conclusion.

Compared to that, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 all have this sense of BioWare desperately rushing to meet milestones and ultimately managing to deliver as best they can within the timeframe they are given. The crux of the matter is that it is not good enough to live up to their legacy titles, or even live up to the first installment of their new series, namely Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

We already saw signs of this in ME2 when the whole Shadow Broker questline from the first game was completely scrapped in favor of making comicbooks that ultimately turned Liara into the Shadow Broker. In fact the opening of ME2 gives us a key insight into how the focus changed and in hindsight, should have set off alarm bells. Why? Well because the base premise of that opening was to invalidate and isolate ME2 from everything that happened in ME1. Not a good situation for the trilogy to be in. And in hindsight, all the great characters we got in ME2, we got at the expense of the Reaper plot, meaning they then had to put everything related to the Reapers into ME3 - taking away other ressources from that game, like...character treatments. It's a vicious downward spiral of rushed content and broken promises :-/

@sunnie7699

I am probably inferring a fair bit, but the way he talks about EA here, does give us some major hints, I think stormwaltz.gamerdna.com/game_post/tYsA9qV/unofficial-mass-effect-dev-diaries "Money Hats".

@ShadyGerbilz

I don't see a problem with introducing new elements. But it should never have to be at the expense of the existing ones. Again, bringing it back to the ME1-2 transition: They wanted to give us a bigger Normandy and tell character stores, so they sidelined everything we accomplished in ME1. Same thing here, they wanted to show some characters with different perspectives on the story, but in doing so they ended up taking away far too much of what already existed. So when I look at it I see a result that was not worth the price. Thane was one of the really great spiritual characters, and with the Reaper invasion hitting, I'd like to think Shepard should have at least a few scenes where the player can give some input into her reflecting on what Thane's tried to tell her. Instead everything he was is forgotten after the hospital scene

[BeanieBat]

Well I didn't get a chance to check in on this thread yesterday and it seems I have missed quite a lot! (And haven't quite caught up yet)

I heard there were quite a lot of people that complained about ME2 being something that was just thrown together by BW before ME3 and that it added nothing to the story. I, of course, disagreed. I loved ME2 and that was mainly because of Thane! So the thing that was incredibly annoying about ME3 was that BW basically showed that the people who complained about ME2 were right, it was just thrown in there and the characters and story had no impact on ME3, with the exception of an introduction to the workings of Cerberus perhaps. The ME2 characters were just an after thought and Thane was one of the worst treated characters.

As for saving Thane... would it really create a huge change in structure to the game? I don't think it has to necessarily. He can still have his battle with Kai Leng and end up in the hospital but just not die right away? Give some time for Shep to find a way to fix him up? That being said, I don't think it will happen either. But the least they could do is give people more than one conversation with him before he dies!

And I chose an ending where my FemShep did die, so she could at least be with Thane.

[Tashash]

@Delerius-Jedi, Oh, sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I was angry at you - Angry at Bioware for trying to give us the 'not enough time' excuse. *sigh* Someone high up the chain needs an ass kicking...with steel toe-cap boots.

[RGC_Ines]

Utaker..I just can't see any sense in Chobot..Im sure a lot of players could be happy with Emily Wong as a jurnalist. Instead of waste Devs time, cash and disc space on uselless NPC they could use theirs talent i.e for Thane...
To be honest as much as I want "fix" Thane content Im doubt we will get one. BioWEAre got ours cash and they couldn't care less about Thane fans. They never show up in any Thane's thread, they give us no hint that there is something planned, they don't talk about any fans action...Now they told that VAs are back to studio for record some lines..someone even heard about Thane's VA? For Devs the most importand are cannon LIs such Ash, Kaidan and Liara, and those who have big and loud fanbase such Tali and Garrus..No one care about the rest they left behind with this crap Miranda/Jacob/Jack/Thane's fans get.

[Jenlocks]

 I get so tired with the "dying man and you knew it" bullsh!t Such a lame, lame excuse. "If he lives it will ruin his character" also bullsh!t

 I watched Iron Man 2 the other day for the first time..I'm not saying it's the best movie in the world but it was good. Let's take a look at that for just a second...*spoilers* Iron Man is dying! oh no! there's nothing in exsistance that can save him from getting killed by that thing in his chest...well that sucks..then Iron Man dies? NO..iron man doesn't die. Iron man discovers a completely new element that saves his life and he flies off and blows stuff up. Yay!

Why wouldn't the same thing be reasonable for a video game character...i dont' see or hear a lot of people complaining because Iron man is still alive when he should have died..he pulled a cure out of thin air..and people are happy about it. 

Sadly it seems the "right" people just don't care about Thane   why else would he have been forgotten? It makes me angry that our choices don't matter and we are pushed toward ME1 squaddies. WHYYYY!!!! Sadly I will give bioware my money for something that we should have had in the first place. Thane dlc..yes please..anything to stop the emptiness. It's just cruel to leave his story the way it is. I don't know why they don't see it. Hiding behind "artistic" crap and "oh story arc" something stupid "heroic" death isn't cutting it. Thanes death isn't important in the least for the story..I don't get it..just killed off to be killed. 

I miss Thane. 

[utaker1988]

People just don't get it, in no way shape or form is their game ruined if we chose to save Thane. Just don't save him...give him the death you think he deserves. Just as my game is not ruined if they off Thane in the SM, impaled on the Normandy, or if they let him die in ME3. People cried over Mordin and think it's epic and heroic BUT Mordin can be saved and it never diminished all their feels over his death for them. Same concept..well Mordin is not dying from a terminal illness but even he admits he is old for a salarian and would die in a few years anyway.

I don't care what universe one lives in...if you can bring someone back from death, eradicate emphysema, cancer and clone organs you certainly can fix Kepral's without it being beyond belief. This is sci-fi where they stretch the limits of belief constantly, so I don't want this "realistic" crap thrown at me anymore. Just as I feel there is no good reason why Joker's bones are still the way they are, fix my pilot too before EDI breaks him. Nobody complains that Miranda's father "grew" Oriana, she is Miranda's genetic twin...now can one look me in the face and tell me that's ok to believe but not curing Kepral's or even a treatment to prolong his life? I think not. I think we are dealing with just overall nasty and spiteful people that are just trying to get under our skin because it suits their need for internet drama.

[ShadyGerbilz]

  @ Delerius Jedi I think you've misinterpreted me. I don't find anything wrong with introducing new characters either. But as you said, not at the expense of the ones that already existed. 

Modifié par ShadyGerbilz, 06 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[Cyansomnia]

As much as I wanna believe the arguments about game design logistics, I don't think it really holds water with me. First off, they created a DLC squadmate in the form of Javik. He's totally optional as a purchase if you didn't get the Collectors Edition. If they put all the effort into creating him and adding him to the game, why can't they do the same with others? He has his own interactions, convos, squad banter, etc.

This is why I feel so angry. They'll put all this effort into creating new optional characters, yet don't want to put work into developing ones that are already there. Not even if we say we'll throw money at them for doing it...

Oh wait, yeah. 'Artistic Integrity'.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 06 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I would believe Bioware had artistic integrity if they had not ripped off the ending of Deus Ex 1, a few different pictures, and the Reaper's motivations from other villains.

[RGC_Ines]

utaker1988 wrote...

People just don't get it, in no way shape or form is their game ruined if we chose to save Thane. Just don't save him...give him the death you think he deserves. Just as my game is not ruined if they off Thane in the SM, impaled on the Normandy, or if they let him die in ME3. People cried over Mordin and think it's epic and heroic BUT Mordin can be saved and it never diminished all their feels over his death for them. Same concept..well Mordin is not dying from a terminal illness but even he admits he is old for a salarian and would die in a few years anyway.

I don't care what universe one lives in...if you can bring someone back from death, eradicate emphysema, cancer and clone organs you certainly can fix Kepral's without it being beyond belief. This is sci-fi where they stretch the limits of belief constantly, so I don't want this "realistic" crap thrown at me anymore. Just as I feel there is no good reason why Joker's bones are still the way they are, fix my pilot too before EDI breaks him. Nobody complains that Miranda's father "grew" Oriana, she is Miranda's genetic twin...now can one look me in the face and tell me that's ok to believe but not curing Kepral's or even a treatment to prolong his life? I think not. I think we are dealing with just overall nasty and spiteful people that are just trying to get under our skin because it suits their need for internet drama.

Agree with You...If they were able to resurect Shepard after he/she was spaced, burnt in atmosphere, and broken after " hard" land on planet surface, Im sure there's noting special in cure for Thane. Especially if in game I see a hints that's probably it was planned...or maybe it's just my hope..but..I noticed that I can ask Hackett about Hanars & Drells situation, and Hackett said, that they are safe for now. The second thing was Hanar Diplomat quest. I can very easy see here a base for personal Thane mission. Also I remember, that before game was relased, one of Devs said that he/she saw a Kahje. In leaked script there was also hint, that Thane is on Citadel, becouse he needed help for Kahje. There also were words, that gave me hope, that I will have a chance to save Thane. Why it was cut off from game I don't know. 
Call me crazy, but for me, Thane death ruined my fun from Mass Effect ( this plus terrible ending). My Shepards have nothing personal to fighting for. There's no hope for them to be happy at the end, there's no one they really care about. Even with my only " loyal" to Kaidan Shep it's hard to have fun. I just don't feel good with Kaidan anymore, and I prefer to stay in a friendship relation with him at the end.  
After all those weeks of Devs silence about Thane, Im just waiting for EC DLC. While I don't play MP, it will be the only one DLC I will get. As long as there's nothing for Thane I lost interest in my ME3 game. I will be back to my old games, especially after rumours about Baldur's Gate re-edition, and Soul Raver created anew. BioWare isn't anymore the Masters of RPG games...at last not for me. After terrible dissapointment Dragon Age 2 was for me, I waited and hoped only for a good fun with ME3..They screwed it too, and now they are just one of many developers studio, whom product I will not buy blindy in relase day. 

[ShadyGerbilz]

 "Artistic integrity" should not apply to video games. The product is made for the customer. If the customer doesn't like your product, you don't make money. Simple as that. Bioware is a company because of the fans, the moment we decide we've had enough of them they'll cease to exist.

 I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's a mixture of pride and laziness. A sad excuse to keep the fans from getting what they want deserve.

Modifié par ShadyGerbilz, 06 mai 2012 - 07:09 .

[coldwetn0se]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

As much as I wanna believe the arguments about game design logistics, I don't think it really holds water with me. First off, they created a DLC squadmate in the form of Javik. He's totally optional as a purchase if you didn't get the Collectors Edition. If they put all the effort into creating him and adding him to the game, why can't they do the same with others? He has his own interactions, convos, squad banter, etc.

This is why I feel so angry. They'll put all this effort into creating new optional characters, yet don't want to put work into developing ones that are already there. Not even if we say we'll throw money at them for doing it...

Oh wait, yeah. 'Artistic Integrity'.

^This.  So this.

As I stated a few pages back, what we got from the "we dropped the ball" Thane content, was not artistic to begin with.  It altered characterization of Thane (loyal friended/romanced-especially romanced), and in turn the reaction our Shepards have.  It is so obvious that the romance elements were tacked on....probably after they initial built him in the game.  I don't have proof, obviously, but I do suspect it.  And if I'm right, then that suggests that they most certainly CAN add new content to the existing game (which the optional DLC squaddies prove it to be so) for an established character in said base game!

[coldwetn0se]

yamainu1984 wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

*Perpetually Drunk Shepard is lying in her aquarium....(yeah, yeah.....Jack was right; blowin' a big hole through the damn thing rendered it useless to hold any form of liquid.....blah, belch, wuteva...)  She's licking at the little metal ball of the space hamsters water bottle (now filled with Gin).*

PDS - "Why did they haf to give you dammabble Keprals!  Wasn't your past pathetic enuff as it was?  Maybe they should have thrown in a few boils on your pretty green face___"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "Siha, my people have been suffering Kepral's for a long time.  I was not special in any way from them.  Nor did my past make me immune."
PDS - "__or maybe your house burnned down too....could've made your kid blind....hell AND deaf___"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "I don't think they were intending me to be quite so....anguished."
PDS - "_____you could have defaulted on your mortgage, had a clerical error from the tax collectors and now you owe a bazillion credits_____"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "This is sounding slightly over the top, Siha.  Perhaps we should just make out for a bit."
PDS - "_____cold sores on your lips, gout, genetial warts__"
Thane in Hallucination Form - "This is disturbing."
*Thane notices that Perpetually Drunk Shepard is typing something on a datapad while having this conversation.*
Thane in Hallucination Form - "Siha, what are you typing?.....Are you "tweeting"??......Siha, please.......Shepard.....ULEE!  Stop giving them ideas!!"
PDS - "....wanna lick my ball?"

@Coldi: I would bring this into the Fanbook - is this ok for you my dear?

@all of you who twittert: THANK YOU SO MUCH! Yesterday I was really depressed about anything and asked myself for what purpose we still working so hard on that book. Today I got the answere You ladies are LOVE!!! <3 Not more to say. That's the spirit

By all mean @yamainu!  I think I've found the formula for writing PDS; one part raw anger, 4 parts cracked sarcasms, 10 parts Gin! 
Actually, anger really is the trigger......when I start steaming, humor seems to be the only thing that calms me down....

[Cyansomnia]

It just seems to me like EA/Bioware doesn't really care.  It's unfortunate that they don't want my money, apparently.

You'd think that with the end of the series they'd want to wrap things up or make extra cash when/where they can. These are perfect opportunities to do so.  But nah, let's do Aria DLC instead.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 06 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[RGC_Ines]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

It just seems to me like EA/Bioware doesn't really care.  It's unfortunate that they don't want my money, apparently.

You'd think that with the end of the series they'd want to wrap things up or make extra cash when/where they can. These are perfect opportunities to do so.  But nah, let's do Aria DLC instead.

Well, the amount of ME3 copies they sold, gave them a lot of cash, so they don't care about minority of unhappy fans ( for them we , the players unhappy with LI  are minority). I think, that they slowly move on from RPG games to FPS, maybe EA think, it will be easier cash for them. They will only fix ( or not, we will see) the ending and will try to sell some DLCs probably for MP players, or to ppl who don't care about ME2 companions at all. I doubt there will be in future any really good RPG game from BioWare. Looks like simple game, where player have to worry only about " awesome button" is theirs goal right now.    

[Emeraldfern]

I actually had a discussion with my brother on how BW could stand to make a profit on Me2 character content via DLC this afternoon and he came up with an interesting idea:

He:"Well it isn't particularly business-savvy to pass up revenue like that.

Sure, I don't know the specific figures for DLC development and exactly how much profit game developers make from DLC sales, but given how pretty much every ME2 L.I. fan is discontent at what they got in ME3 (and that's not a small group of fans), I think it safe to assume that they'd profit quite a lot.
I mean, I want DLC content with Miranda just as much as you want Thane content.
True, Miranda got more than both Thane and Jacob, but I...was not content with her ME3 content.
Heh, you know what? Those fan projects youv'e been working on?"


Me: "Yes, you mean the Thane fanbook and the LIA projects right?"


He: "Yep, you know an idea for these projects could be something like gathering up signatures from people willing to pay for L.I. content and chalk up the interest for different characters, and then using maths to calculate what kind of revenue it would mean for BW if they made DLC. Because it's rather hard to argue with hard numbers after all."



So..crazy tracy idea?

Idk.

Does anyone know what BW actually makes of individual DLC sales?

(idk if it's different for PC/Xbox360/PS3 though...)

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 06 mai 2012 - 07:28 .

[mnomaha]

@Emerald...It's usually about $9.99 from what I can see.

[gearseffect]

Sorry for jumping in mid point or whatever, I've missed quite a lot, But I read several of the posts and I had this thing hit me that needed saying before I forget it.

About the new squad mates vs, the ME2 vs the ME3 squad mates and it being done at the expense of the ME2 cast

Given this is the finale game, and all I had been a Fan of Liara, and then ME3 came out and it felt like she was the only other squad mate on the Normandy. I've never been one who handles something being forced upon me, very well, in fact I tend to reject it, grow to despise it and hate it.

Sadly that's what happened in ME3 with Liara for me. Also about the ME1 and EDI I'm starting to get rather sick of EDI, because she feels much the same.

Anyway If I could chose my own squad mates to have my back in ME3, out of the whole cast of Squad mates in the series with only 6 total. I'd go with the ones I'm most attached to and enjoy the most, which would be this
1.Samara
2.Thane
3.Garrus
4.Jack
5.
and the last spots are open. In fact when I played ME3 I found myself taking the squadmates I liked most out on all the missions, so Garrus came on every single mission and the other spot often went to Javik or James Vega.

I've never been found of Tali. She's just like that carry on I never asked for but she always comes back, it's not bad at all because Garrus is the same way, it's just I've never really felt close to her character, her voice bugged me.

Anyway I'm sorry for that whole random stupid nonsense that hit me, and really has nothing to do with much other than the characters I felt closest to in ME, and many were ME2 cast members including Thane.

[Emeraldfern]

@mnomaha

For the PC I gather?


When it comes to Xbox/PS3, I think there are some licensing costs involved too, which goes to MS and Sony.

The PC platform is exempt from licensing costs though.

[Hadeedak]

I just wish they'd do something. Talk to us. Discuss plans. Anything.

I mean, yeah, extended cut first... Am I being stupidly optimistic to think they MIGHT do a squadmate DLC and that might include something for Thane? I'd like... anything, really. I mean, a cure and a Jack treatment would be awesome. I envy Jackmancers. >> I'd be happy if SOMEONE notices he died. Headcanon'd aftermath is a little... flat.