7876 réponses à ce sujet

[coldwetn0se]

My thoughts are truly messy today, so if this turns in to "jibberjabber"...hehe....I apologize.

Every week, there are those that like to state that the treatment Thane got was appropriate to his character.  We know that is untrue based on the character arcs that Thane has if he is loyal, loyal/romanced, and unloyal.  His character arc was homogenized in to one category in me3 (for the most part); loyal.  I admit I don't know how many differences there are if he was unloyal but alive in me3, but as I understand it, the only real difference is the handling of Kolyat (someone please correct me if I am wrong). 
I swear I have point.

Whether you wanted a choice for Thane to live or not, Thane's storyline in me3 just doesn't work.  And, if romanced, is even worse.  Let's say we could accept that Thane was to die.  Why on earth did they decide to remove his romance status.  Shouldn't that have been our choice?  If his involvement (storywise) in me3 would have been better/more relevant, and just more "meaty", then there was a good chance that many of us would have been fine (so to speak) with his unavoidable death.  I'll break it down to a list......easier to read....I hope:

1) His involvement should have made more sense......i.e. Kahje homeworld, Hanar/Drell relations, backlash from the killing of Nassana, wuteva.......simply put, lots of good story missions could have worked for Thane.  Would have been much more interesting and engaging.

2) His romance should have been aloud to continue.  If he would have had better involvement with the storyline, then it would have been much easier to have him alive till nearly the end of the game.  This would have given the players who romanced him plenty of time to rekindle the romance should they so choose.  And would have encouraged more extensive and richer romance scenes.  His romance would have also unlocked the Paramour Achievement, could have included a picture in the Captain's Loft, and still would have loved the idea of his face at the end, instead of Liara's. 

3) Simply put, he should have never been forgotten by Shepard and crew.  He should have been added to the codex.  If romanced, MULTIPLE people should have commented on his death, and Shepard should have shown appropriate emotions.

4) Last but not least, his entire dialogue should never have been only about Kepral's.  He didn't have to already be on death's door.  Besides, if they really felt he "needed" to die anyway, give him what his character wanted to begin with: a way to make a difference (that makes sense), and BELIEVABLE (based on his current health).  What we have right now in the game, he can't even make out with you without feeling lightheaded/tingly/faint.......how are we supposed to take his Citadel Coup involvement seriously when they present him as being nearly passed out from spending any time with us....*cough/wheeze* If they would have stuck with his original assessment of his health status in ME2, it would still be believable that he wasn't so far wasted to be included in a poignant mission.  A character appropriate mission. 

This is not what we were given in this game.  So now we have those from BW stating what is in the game, stays as is, BUT that doesn't mean that can't ADD to it.  Not change; add!  For those that think we are being silly with our wish for a life extention/cure for Thane, we are simply working with what they have given us.  We ALL want our choice of LI to count, but within the current game, it doesn't.  So we ADD that choice.  They won't retcon his storyline to some of the ideas listed above (that STILL would have had him die....since they deemed that to be the "only" fitting end to Thane's character......pppffffftt....wuteva), so the only choice we have to enjoy Thane more, and to have him count as a LI, IS to extend life/cure him.  And, this can be achieved with added content.  In a sense, they have left us with only one recourse to fight for.  An OPTION to save him.  That's all we have to work with, since nothing already written will be changed.

Do I think this will happen?  Most of you know what I think about this (and probably feel the same), that there is a good chance they won't.  But I do hold out hope.  In the meantime, if anyone tries to comment on why should he be given the choice to live, I pose this to them; if we are to hope for any more content with Thane, then we have been left with no other option, but to have added content to reflect a choice or option, to extend/cure his life.  It literally is the only way we could ever have more Thane content.  And without it, I know I will not play the game (or even finish what I initially started.)  And I certainly will have no desire to purchase any further DLC or new games in this IP, which is my perogative as a consumer.  I will not spend money on entertainment that is NOT entertaining.

Sorry for another wall o' text......and yeah, this may not be the most coherent......the hot weather we are having is making me goofy.

*EDIT* added content

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 14 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[mnomaha]

*hugs Coldi* Well said dear, very well said.

[coldwetn0se]

*blows a kiss to mnomaha* I swear, whenever I have to do office work (or housework too), my mind meanders somethin' awful.

[mnomaha]

*sigh* yeah, I'm supposed to be doing month end stuff. Faaaaaiiiillll.

[shepskisaac]

coldwetn0se wrote...

In the meantime, if anyone tries to comment on why should he be given the choice to live, I pose this to them; if we are to hope for any more content with Thane, then we have been left with no other option, but to have added content to reflect a choice or option, to extend/cure his life.  It literally is the only way we could ever have more Thane content.

Untrue. Example: You recieve a mail about mission on Kahje and you take Thane with you on it. That mission happens before the coup. After it ends, Thane goes may go for a moment to Normandy (like Liara in LOTSB) and then return to hospital and 'wait' for the coup to get activated. Problem solved.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 mai 2012 - 10:57 .

[mnomaha]

But it still wouldn't necessarily fix anything if they don't change the crappy unemotive death scene. I got more emotion out of Twilight.

[coldwetn0se]

IsaacShep wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

In the meantime, if anyone tries to comment on why should he be given the choice to live, I pose this to them; if we are to hope for any more content with Thane, then we have been left with no other option, but to have added content to reflect a choice or option, to extend/cure his life.  It literally is the only way we could ever have more Thane content.

Untrue. Example: You recieve a mail about mission on Kahje and you take Thane with you on it. That mission happens before the coup. After it ends, Thane goes may go for a moment to Normandy (like Liara in LOTSB) and then return to hospital and 'wait' for the coup to get activated. Problem solved.

Not saying your idea isn't good, but if you read through what I wrote, one of the big problems I have with Thane (and other's on this thread have also expressed) fighting in the Coup has to do with how they handled his current state of health.  His dialogues are mostly about his disease, and if you ask him to come aboard the Normandy, he laughs it off and says he is too sick for it.  (Hell, if you ask for "Private Time" - makeout session in front of a giant window- his body and dialogue reflect "distress" from the activity.  Not very condusive of a man able to do a bunch of fighting) The Hospital dialogue and that which we are shown, makes him out to be too weak to even fight in the coup (though, obviously, they wrote him to do that - if he is alive and you speak to him before the coup). 

For me, having him in the state of being he is in (as they wrote him in me3) makes it immersion breaking for him to all of sudden change his mind about hopping aboard the Normandy (remember, they actually wrote a dialogue for him to REFUSE to come back aboard the Normandy), flying of to Kajhe (or any other mission locale), fight out a mission with you, then go back to the Citadel and fight KL.......with the character arc they gave him, it isn't plausible to me.  If they had NOT made him out to be "past due" for death, then I would agree that something like this would work, but alas, that is not what we got.  Secondly, it still doesn't fix the romance or the current romance dialogues (what little there is).  With an option added to extend his life, none of the in game material would need to be altered. 

BW can choose to do nothing, but working with what we got, are options for more Thane content is limited.  The only other option would be to ADD romance specific content, but even that is problematic BECAUSE of what they already employed.  Now I am not arrogant enough to believe that I have thought up every possible outcome here; of course I haven't.  But the more I have examined it, the more these things keep running in my brain.  Especially with what they (BW) would be willing to do.

Lastly is the problem with not taking in his different character arcs.  The only way (that I can see) is to allow for an option to extend his life.  Then new content could be added to reflect the character arc we had in ME2.  Fighting for choice is always going to be my main position.  Partly because of what happened to his character in me3, and because I did always believe (silly me) that we would get one.  This will not change till BW says they will add no new content for Thane, and give us a chance to have our LI of choice.  When that day happens, well, I think I already stated the obvious..........

[shepskisaac]

mnomaha wrote...

But it still wouldn't necessarily fix anything if they don't change the crappy unemotive death scene. I got more emotion out of Twilight.

Girls/guys, you need to start thinking realistically. Suggest something that is not only realistic but also seems resonable from their perspective, a DLC that not just Thane fans would want to buy. Kahje mission (or some new mission on some planet/new location) is your best shot at more Thane because it's a mission that many pople would be interested in. Asking the devs to incorporate Thane content into such mission (esp. romance, he could for example briefly visit the Normandy at the end of it like Liara did in LOTSB) would be much more realistic than asking them to mess around already existing code.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 mai 2012 - 11:50 .

[mnomaha]

So...asking for a difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced Thane is "not realistic". I believe we not only have different ideas on that concept but will also have to agree to disagree. Sorry Isaac, but as someone at the bottom (just above Jacob) of the crap pile that bioware decided to throw the ME2 squad under, I'm not going to happily go about my business and just accept what was give. Not without voicing my discontent. Will it matter? I honestly don't know. But if even the Liara fanbase is allowed to complain, well then, why should we be quiet?

[shepskisaac]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Not saying your idea isn't good, but if you read through what I wrote, one of the big problems I have with Thane (and other's on this thread have also expressed) fighting in the Coup has to do with how they handled his current state of health.  His dialogues are mostly about his disease, and if you ask him to come aboard the Normandy, he laughs it off and says he is too sick for it.

Huh? No he says that he just "needs to rest from war". Yeah, he also needs daily medical attention, but Chakwas could provide that.

coldwetn0se wrote...
(Hell, if you ask for "Private Time" - makeout session in front of a giant window- his body and dialogue reflect "distress" from the activity.  Not very condusive of a man able to do a bunch of fighting) The Hospital dialogue and that which we are shown, makes him out to be too weak to even fight in the coup (though, obviously, they wrote him to do that - if he is alive and you speak to him before the coup). 

At the same time, first thing we see him do is excersising. If you don't romance him, Shep actually comments that it's good he's staying in shap. He's not in great state, but he can still perform well for a short time thus it is not unrealistic that he would fight Kai Leng for a moment. The fact that he loses fits his state. He can go out of the hospital to Kahje (for example). Yeah, maybe he should't be a (temp)squadmate as that would requre him to fight constantly, but he could be still part of the Kahje mission, just as Mordin was on Tuchanka even though he didn't do any fighting.

coldwetn0se wrote...
With an option added to extend his life, none of the in game material would need to be altered. 

Yes it would have to be. You're talking about already existing locations, dilaogues and scenes that would have to be changed to add new options.

mnomaha wrote...

So...asking for a difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced Thane is "not realistic".

What are you even talking about? I specifically mentioned romance scenes in such hypothetical Kahje mission.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 mai 2012 - 12:11 .

[stysiaq]

IsaacShep wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

But it still wouldn't necessarily fix anything if they don't change the crappy unemotive death scene. I got more emotion out of Twilight.

Girls/guys, you need to start thinking realistically. Suggest something that is not only realistic but also seems resonable from their perspective, a DLC that not just Thane fans would want to buy. Kahje mission (or some new mission on some planet/new location) is your best shot at more Thane because it's a mission that many pople would be interested in. Asking the devs to incorporate Thane content into such mission (esp. romance, he could for example briefly visit the Normandy at the end of it like Liara did in LOTSB) would be much more realistic than asking them to mess around already existing code.

read the OP (and as I assume you did it long time ago, read it again). And read the title of the thread. It's "Protesting Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance", not "I Want Moar Thane At Any Moment In The Game".

As long as your Idea for Kahje mission is ok (I suppose) it would just make a bigger mess in the game without retconning his condition. So what, Thane gets a hospital break to do some heavy shooting on Kahje, and then he is supposed to get back to his dying "I won't be of any use on Normandy" self?

We hope for a retcon of his attitude. Or perhaps to actually REMOVE the retcon that has been made. It's basically another form of "my choices don't matter" disappointment. People here chose to romance Thane, chose to give him a purpose, to bring him back from the dead. To make him refuse his 'inevitable' fate. And his fate wasn't sealed after all, as we all have read the Shadow broker files on him.

Things should be as following: didn't convince Thane that he has something to live for - he is okay with dying (as he is now). You got his loyalty, romanced him - you Spectre-authorize his lung transplant as the top priority medical treatment on whole of the Citadel.

Just no  "Ooooh, I'm dying, nothing to do here" and then "I LUV U I GOT TO SPEAK WITH MY SON, I MAKE FRIENDS ON NORMANDY, IM ALIVE AGAIN" and then "Mkay, back to dying, regret nothing lol" crap please.

[coldwetn0se]

IsaacShep wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

But it still wouldn't necessarily fix anything if they don't change the crappy unemotive death scene. I got more emotion out of Twilight.

Girls/guys, you need to start thinking realistically. Suggest something that is not only realistic but also seems resonable from their perspective, a DLC that not just Thane fans would want to buy. Kahje mission (or some new mission on some planet/new location) is your best shot at more Thane because it's a mission that many pople would be interested in. Asking the devs to incorporate Thane content into such mission (esp. romance, he could for example briefly visit the Normandy at the end of it like Liara did in LOTSB) would be much more realistic than asking them to mess around already existing code.

I am more than happy to have you pop in and add to the discussion, but there is a slight problem when you have assumed that we are not considering something reasonable from "their perspective".  Trust me on this, most of us have.  We have written up many different possibilties of what they could have done, should have done, and what they can still do.  AND we are not niave to believe that we will (or even should) get Thanecentric DLC.  No, no, no......we are working within the confines we are given, and we have always accepted that DLC would need to be story based, and include many characters.  Not just a focus on one character.  I have written up three different proposals, and many others have done so as well.  If you don't read the thread everyday (and the other Thane thread, AND our Group threads) you probably would not realize that we have thought of all of this.  And again, as stated in my TOP post, we ARE coming up with ideas that work with EXISTING content; NOT changing said content.  In fact, we are specifically trying to address that very path.  You assuming other wise though, is disheartening.  Disappointing....   

[mnomaha]

stysiaq wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

But it still wouldn't necessarily fix anything if they don't change the crappy unemotive death scene. I got more emotion out of Twilight.

Girls/guys, you need to start thinking realistically. Suggest something that is not only realistic but also seems resonable from their perspective, a DLC that not just Thane fans would want to buy. Kahje mission (or some new mission on some planet/new location) is your best shot at more Thane because it's a mission that many pople would be interested in. Asking the devs to incorporate Thane content into such mission (esp. romance, he could for example briefly visit the Normandy at the end of it like Liara did in LOTSB) would be much more realistic than asking them to mess around already existing code.

read the OP (and as I assume you did it long time ago, read it again). And read the title of the thread. It's "Protesting Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance", not "I Want Moar Thane At Any Moment In The Game".

As long as your Idea for Kahje mission is ok (I suppose) it would just make a bigger mess in the game without retconning his condition. So what, Thane gets a hospital break to do some heavy shooting on Kahje, and then he is supposed to get back to his dying "I won't be of any use on Normandy" self?

We hope for a retcon of his attitude. Or perhaps to actually REMOVE the retcon that has been made. It's basically another form of "my choices don't matter" disappointment. People here chose to romance Thane, chose to give him a purpose, to bring him back from the dead. To make him refuse his 'inevitable' fate. And his fate wasn't sealed after all, as we all have read the Shadow broker files on him.

Things should be as following: didn't convince Thane that he has something to live for - he is okay with dying (as he is now). You got his loyalty, romanced him - you Spectre-authorize his lung transplant as the top priority medical treatment on whole of the Citadel.

Just no  "Ooooh, I'm dying, nothing to do here" and then "I LUV U I GOT TO SPEAK WITH MY SON, I MAKE FRIENDS ON NORMANDY, IM ALIVE AGAIN" and then "Mkay, back to dying, regret nothing lol" crap please.

okay, as serious as this topic has become today...I'll admit it. I laughed out loud, very loudly, at work. Well done and well said.

[coldwetn0se]

IsaacShep wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

Not saying your idea isn't good, but if you read through what I wrote, one of the big problems I have with Thane (and other's on this thread have also expressed) fighting in the Coup has to do with how they handled his current state of health.  His dialogues are mostly about his disease, and if you ask him to come aboard the Normandy, he laughs it off and says he is too sick for it.

Huh? No he says that he just "needs to rest from war". Yeah, he also needs daily medical attention, but Chakwas could provide that.

coldwetn0se wrote...
(Hell, if you ask for "Private Time" - makeout session in front of a giant window- his body and dialogue reflect "distress" from the activity.  Not very condusive of a man able to do a bunch of fighting) The Hospital dialogue and that which we are shown, makes him out to be too weak to even fight in the coup (though, obviously, they wrote him to do that - if he is alive and you speak to him before the coup). 

At the same time, first thing we see him do is excersising. If you don't romance him, Shep actually comments that it's good he's staying in shap. He's not in great state, but he can still perform well for a short time thus it is not unrealistic that he would fight Kai Leng for a moment. The fact that he loses fits his state. He can go out of the hospital to Kahje (for example). Yeah, maybe he should't be a (temp)squadmate as that would requre him to fight constantly, but he could be still part of the Kahje mission, just as Mordin was on Tuchanka even though he didn't do any fighting.

coldwetn0se wrote...
With an option added to extend his life, none of the in game material would need to be altered. 

Yes it would have to be. You're talking about already existing locations, dilaogues and scenes that would have to be changed to add new options.

mnomaha wrote...

So...asking for a difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced Thane is "not realistic".

What are you even talking about? I specifically mentioned romance scenes in such hypothetical Kahje mission.

I would ask you simply, did you ever role play a play through as a Thanemancer?  If yes, then I admit I'm shocked at how differently you could see all of this, then all of us.  If no, then please, as Systaiq said, read through the OP again, and perhaps some of our other pages as well.  We may never get anything new/extra content for Thane, but just as you spoke up about BW including s/s (as well you should) LI's in these games, we would like to express our feelings/thoughts/ideas on OUR LI of choice. 

He may be Shadowboxing in front of the window, but it is a far cry from the dialogue and attitude expressed about his health.  What we got, is what we got.........we will try and work with that as best we can. 

[JECW]

What I want to know is why we have to keep explaining this to people over and over again. They come in and presume to know what we want when it's clear that they don't. Read the first page. That's all anyone has to do.

Modifié par JECW, 15 mai 2012 - 12:28 .

[coldwetn0se]

@mnomaha - very well said about non-romanced Thane vs. romanced Thane and his character arc being "unrealistic".

@Squeegee - Exactly; must look forward and try and work with what we got.

@stysiaq - Nice train of thought....and it also gave me a chuckle....thank you

@JECW - without context, they don't understand, but sometimes people choose not to anyway. *shrug*

[shepskisaac]

coldwetn0se wrote...

@JECW - without context, they don't understand, but sometimes people choose not to anyway. *shrug*

lol ok, "if you don't agree with us it means you don't get it" this is pointless, so yay I'm out

[mnomaha]

No, it means read more than the page you are currently on.

[JECW]

IsaacShep wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

@JECW - without context, they don't understand, but sometimes people choose not to anyway. *shrug*

lol ok, "if you don't agree with us it means you don't get it" this is pointless, so yay I'm out

Wow
So you are just going to judge us without even really talking to us. Not one person said that to you. All we asked was did you read the first page. Do you really understand what we want? We do get a lot of people who don't. We are more than happy to hear what you have to say. We listen to what anyone who wants to come in here and discuss Thane. We may not agree but we will listen. Are you willing to do the same?

Modifié par JECW, 15 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[JECW]

mnomaha wrote...

No, it means read more than the page you are currently on.

I guess he's not interested in reading what we have to say.

Modifié par JECW, 15 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[coldwetn0se]

IsaacShep wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

@JECW - without context, they don't understand, but sometimes people choose not to anyway. *shrug*

lol ok, "if you don't agree with us it means you don't get it" this is pointless, so yay I'm out

 Did you read my previous posts?  I had two above relating to our conversation.  I'm sorry if that statement felt dismissive (the one you quoted).  It wasn't my intent, but again, did you read the other posts? 

I saw on a previous post of yours over in the Kaidan thread where you simply state:  "Appears =/= is" (this was regarding a discussion you were having with another poster, about Kaidan's sexual preferences in ME1).  I thought this was a good point, but you seem to drop this idea when it comes to us and what we have been posting about today.  Even if we get emotional (as many do regarding their favorite characters), doesn't mean we don't understand the logistics of Thane's storyline and how it could (hopefully) be expanded on.  As you stated, Appears =/= is.

[shepskisaac]

JECW wrote...

This guy clearly didn't come in here to talk. He just wanted to tell us how wrong we are for wanting just a little bit more for Thane. I'm sure if his LI got treated as badly he wouldn't be saying we are being being unrealistic.

And then you wonder why I think discussing is pointless when you're coming up with such gems? Seriously

coldwetn0se wrote...

 Did you read my previous posts?

Of course I did. But it boils down to the same thing -> "if you really cared for Thane you would agree with us". In any case, I already said what in my opinion is realistic regarding Thane, anyone can do what he/she wants with this opinion, and we'll just agree to disagree.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 mai 2012 - 01:25 .

[mnomaha]

Sorry, the original sounded rude and it wasn't supposed to...

what does "Appears =/= is" mean?

edit: I'm a posting nightmare today...

Modifié par mnomaha, 15 mai 2012 - 01:20 .

[JECW]

IsaacShep wrote...

JECW wrote...

This guy clearly didn't come in here to talk. He just wanted to tell us how wrong we are for wanting just a little bit more for Thane. I'm sure if his LI got treated as badly he wouldn't be saying we are being being unrealistic.

And then you wonder why I think discussing is pointless when you're coming up with such gems? Seriously

What exactly are you trying to say. I realize it may have sounded rude. I apologize if it did.
If there is something you wan to talk about than you can talk.

Modifié par JECW, 15 mai 2012 - 01:32 .