7876 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Hanky]

mnomaha wrote...

*sigh* Since some aren't really reading a whole lot of previous posts, I will add this:

It is not entirely the fact that Thane was killed. It was the fact that we had one whole *crappy* dialogue with him. Added to the fact that he is the ONLY LI where choice was removed. The last straw was the fact that NO ONE remembered him after he had died.

Had this been Liara, VS or Team Dextro the ****storm would have encompassed the internet. We do have a right to our opinions, as do you, but to come in here telling us how we should feel is not welcomed. And yes, you did..."you should be glad..." blah blah blah. No, we are not glad. It was completely substandard writing and a substandard storyline.

Had you come in objectively, I would imagine things would have been handled differently. But you did not.

but no one is objective, we are all biased.

you do make a decent point, sorry I didn't read the pages and pages of posts before I gave my opinion. Though it is still unchanged, I can appreciate your point as far as dialogue goes. I, too, would have liked to see others talk at least a little about Thane after his death, but there are also a ton of ragers out there who are angry beyond belief that Thane died. it just surprises me because it was announced from the very begining that he would die.

Modifié par M. Hanky, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:29 .

[mnomaha]

Yes, however, the end game, coupled with several teasers, gave us hope that they would give an optional cure to Thane.

Had it been decently written, most would have accepted it, but it wasn't. Bioware admitted to forgetting he was a love interest. I think it was an excuse, given the resources they spent to create him, but all we can do in the meantime is voice our opinion and discontent. It especially irks because the genophage was cured in a short time, even after Mordin clearly says years in ME2. The Geth join with the Quarians and *bam* they can run around without their suits.

There are numerous inconsistencies between what was done and what could be done. Space magic, if you will.

But again, it's Bioware's "dropped ball", character retcons and basic shoddy writing that we are not happy with. Do you realise there is little to no difference between a romanced Thane and a friend Thane?

[Sebby]

mnomaha wrote...

Yes, however, the end game, coupled with several teasers, gave us hope that they would give an optional cure to Thane.

Had it been decently written, most would have accepted it, but it wasn't. Bioware admitted to forgetting he was a love interest. I think it was an excuse, given the resources they spent to create him, but all we can do in the meantime is voice our opinion and discontent. It especially irks because the genophage was cured in a short time, even after Mordin clearly says years in ME2. The Geth join with the Quarians and *bam* they can run around without their suits.

There are numerous inconsistencies between what was done and what could be done. Space magic, if you will.

But again, it's Bioware's "dropped ball", character retcons and basic shoddy writing that we are not happy with. Do you realise there is little to no difference between a romanced Thane and a friend Thane?

There's little to no difference with the rest of the game despite one's "choices".

Modifié par Seboist, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:41 .

[coldwetn0se]

Yup....quite passionate. As many are about the characters they like best. Simply put:

1) His illness was the primary health issue for his entire race. Any help for Thane (be it life extension or cure), would have directly helped all Drells (and inadvertently the Hanar). This is in keeping with a common theme in the ME universe; aiding galactic races to prepare for the Reapers. Just as thematic as curing the Genophage for the Krogan, or having the Quarians back on their homeworld and adapted much quicker than expected.

2) Thane may have been an emotional outlet that you were looking for in YOUR game, but he wasn't in mine (or others on this thread). I personally have always believed in choices for RPG's, and risks that come from those choices, but choices nonetheless. If my keeping Thane alive makes me enjoy the game, then it is what I like and would hope for. It doesn't alter your game in the slightest. And remember; you have the game exactly as you seem to wish it. We do not. Anything we hope for would have to be added to the game, which again doesn't change your game. Besides, wishing for something doesn't mean it will happen. Either they will add something in with DLC or they won't. So why rain on someones wishes when it has zero effect on your game?

3) There are literally pages on this thread and other threads that spell out our misgivings on the treatment of Thane in me3, and yet the primary arguement we get with people who wish to tell us how to feel is...."he was dying already." Most of us here have had our fair share of tragedy, and would never dream of writing anyone off simply because it was stated that he/she was "dying already." If this is the message you believe acceptable, and what you got out of his character in ME, then I would say you are making our case for us. He was our only true representative for an entire race, a full on LI in ME2, and a brother-in-arm to some, and in me3 they set him up to merely be the device for "hating" Kai Leng; a character that many have had ill feelings towards since he was first seen in me3. (and those were not ill feelings in a "boy I love hating this guy"....mmmmm, no.) And even then this was a fail since Thane could be replaced by Kirahee, or the Councilor could simple just be killed. This will happen EVEN if Thane is alive in an import from ME2 to me3, if a player with said import doesn't go talk to him at Huerta before the Coup. This will default in Thane dying off screen, and again, promptly forgotten.

4) Not one single Thanemancer went in to me3 believing that the Romance aspect would actually be negated; yet it was. The writers admitted that they had forgotten he was a LI, and shoehorned in a few lines and a makeout scene at the last minute. He is not even mentioned in the guide as either a LI or a Person of Interest. This well written character (written by the same man who wrote Ashley in ME1...another favorite of mine) was a setup for a scene, and nothing more. I was stunned, to say the least. And as for the actually character arc that was setup in ME2, if you did romance him, this was completely demolished. I have an analysis of his entire dialogue at Huerta that I am more than happy to post again, so that you can see the actual inconsistency in his character arc. Not only that, but we have in-game evidence of this, since they rehashed the LotSB Letter from Thane's dossier; sending it out to a Thanemanced Shepard. The letter itself actually contradicts his dialogue in me3. This resending of that letter was obvious of this "shoehorning" of his romance. And, of course, to rub it in a bit more, they change very little in the way of dialogue for a romanced Shep and don't allow for the Paramour Achievement. Trust me on this; none of us saw this coming. His death may have still happened (even if not all of us wanted that), but this........no.

Lastly, just a side note. I believe @utaker is talking about her husband; not her father. Many of us regular posters on this thread are.....hmmm....a bit older (not all, but many). Many are married or have been married, many have children, homes, jobs, businesses, deal with ailing family members, fight illness themselves, and are from many countries around the world. Our perspectives in life can come from different places, but we can still recognized poorly handled content, when we see it.

Wishing you the best, and hoping for Happy Gaming for all.

[RaenImrahl]

I would suggest that sending personal messages to @utaker would be the best way to express your good wishes-- that way we can keep this thread on topic and avoid any confusion between discussing @utaker's situation and discussing Thane's plot in the game.

Thank you.

RI

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 04 juillet 2012 - 01:45 .

[mnomaha]

Seboist wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Yes, however, the end game, coupled with several teasers, gave us hope that they would give an optional cure to Thane.

Had it been decently written, most would have accepted it, but it wasn't. Bioware admitted to forgetting he was a love interest. I think it was an excuse, given the resources they spent to create him, but all we can do in the meantime is voice our opinion and discontent. It especially irks because the genophage was cured in a short time, even after Mordin clearly says years in ME2. The Geth join with the Quarians and *bam* they can run around without their suits.

There are numerous inconsistencies between what was done and what could be done. Space magic, if you will.

But again, it's Bioware's "dropped ball", character retcons and basic shoddy writing that we are not happy with. Do you realise there is little to no difference between a romanced Thane and a friend Thane?

There's little to no difference with the rest of the game despite one's "choices".

To be honest, with the exception of Rannoch and Tuchanka, I thought the rest of the game blew.

[M. Hanky]

yes, i feel you, and just because i disagree doesn't mean i've never felt tragedy, or fought for anyone who was already dying. is it possible to disagree without making it all personal? anyone? IMHO, you may as well make a thread demanding that the girl in a walk to remember survived. sure, it would be nice, but it would have destroyed the movie. thane's death is tragic, but it would have been tragic for just about any of the characters who could have died. from the writer's standpoint, some of the loved characters had to die. the reapers invaded. billions, if not trillions of other people were dying in the game. they all had loved ones too. it's just silly to expect that shepard can save EVERYONE he/she cared about.

[Cosmochyck]

@ M. Hanky
I agree that ppl die, and I'm ok with Thane dying - just not the way it was handled in ME3. If he was romanced, he was completely out of character for how he felt at the end of ME2. And he died so soon without even an option to save him or prolong his life. Then at least it would be a choice and if you wanted him to die, he still can.
And yes, it is just a game, but everyone is passionate about their favorite characters - it worked for Tali!!
We appreciate all feedback, it's just we do get a lot of trolls. We are always looking for more support.

[mnomaha]

Also:

I do realise it is "just a game", but really, how many of you play games for realism? I live in the real world, I don't want to play a game about it.

And if someone had to die, well, why not Liara then? She's the only one who can't. Or make VS and Team Dextro die without an option?

[M. Hanky]

when i said it was just a game it wasn't to dig at being passionate about thane, it was as a defense against those making it all personal. i do appreciate realism in games, and i get passionate about ME3 as well.

and I think it would have sucked if Liara died, too. in a way it would have been a bit more tragic, imho, because you weren't expecting it. with thane it may have been nice to save him, but as was pointed out multiple times throughout the game, you can't save everyone, not even everyone you care about. if nothing else, I honestly believe thane, mordin, and legion weren't enough. more of shepard's crew prolly should have died at some point as well, make the tragedy greater, bring out shepard's character even more. ultimately, however, i would have liked to see more of an impact/reaction to the deaths that were unavoidable. make the characters themselves more real.

Modifié par M. Hanky, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[Emeraldfern]

@M.Hanky


I personally play the game to escape reality for a while, and be this awesome, badass Commander in space, who kicks Reaper butt using a Black Widow and Tactical cloak!

(And has a sleek drell assassin by her side when she does)

We all play the game differently, and enjoy different parts of the story, characters etc. And that is ok.

You don't have to enjoy/not enjoy what I do about Mass Effect 3, and in a sense that was the beauty of both ME1 and ME2 imo; the story had all these choices that made each playthrough as unique as you, the player wanted it to be. What one chose another would not, and most would (most of the time) be happy with their choices. Because one choice did not invalidate the other choice.

But in ME3, that is not the case (again imo), and having linear character scenarios that happen "no matter what" doesn't exactly make for unique playthroughs. And Thane's fate is one of those things that for me, has my desire to play ME3 take a nose-dive.

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 04 juillet 2012 - 02:15 .

[coldwetn0se]

Fair enough. Again, most of us just wanted good characterization, and admittedly a "choice" to save/extend his life. At this point in my life, I totally have no problem wishing for Happy Endings. (Go Disney...hehe!) That isn't to say I don't approve of tragedy in stories, I certainly do when it fits thematically. And your arguement isn't wrong; in a war setting not everyone will live. But this particular story, (and being an RPG), I just wanted a choice on said tragedy. It generally adds to replayability, and would have allowed me the "happy-happy" ending that I was hoping for. (and I should note, the happy ending actually did NOT include my Shepard necessarily surviving; just those my Shepard loved.)

[Roxy]

@ utaker I'll be praying for your husband,you and your family!

@ M.Hanky  I've seen my father on his deathbed,even my uncle...most of us here have gone through tragic times,most of us are married and have kids! Don't be calling us immature! We know it's a game and we play games to get away from rl just like any other person! But we have every right to complain about how Thane got treated...he got treated poorly.. in other words we are not going to just lay down and take it!

Modifié par Roxy, 04 juillet 2012 - 04:08 .

[Seifer006]

whoa.......

they responsed. Who's "Utaker?" this a Bioware developer. If so I want Link: and I'll write a another 15page of my Best Wishes

[mnomaha]

No, utaker is not a developer. She's one of our own.

[Seifer006]

ahh I see. So, She's the one with all the connections.

@Utaker - I want Wrex and a Epic Showdown with Harbinger.

but to stay on track: I need Thane assistance to re-take Omega with Wrex

[Emeraldfern]

@Seifer006

Heck I'd be on board for that!

Omega massacre redux anyone?

Oh boy...there is no Cerberus force (or any other force for that matter) that could take down those two!

[coldwetn0se]

I am so on board with Wrex and Thane crew....a "wrecking ball", and an "eye in the sky"! FTW!

[utaker1988]

Yes, why not Wrex. Then he can make one more crack about the Normandy being a freak show again. One thing I had hoped for before ME3 came out was that I'd get Wrex back. I did, just not the way I wanted. Speaking of the old crotchety krogan (I do love Wrex), you know what makes me laugh (the few times I've played ME3). That part during Sur'Kesh where you go talk to Padok and you can see Wrex in the background talking to those salarians...the look on Wrex's face, the way he is smiling and laughing. All I could think of was, "Hold on! What is Wrex saying over there? I NEED to know what's going on. When he looks like that you know there's a whole world of funny going on." I think I will protest that tonight. Being robbed of Wrex's funnies.

As for a Thane/Wrex, oh yes I would do it. I doubt I'd be able to get any kills in myself but I'd pay just to see it. Take my money!!!

Give me Wrex and Thane!

[Seifer006]

@Emeraldfern @ Coldwetn0se

Winning Personality + The Angelic Assassin = One Great DLC

[Seifer006]

utaker1988 wrote...

Yes, why not Wrex. Then he can make one more crack about the Normandy being a freak show again. One thing I had hoped for before ME3 came out was that I'd get Wrex back. I did, just not the way I wanted. Speaking of the old crotchety krogan (I do love Wrex), you know what makes me laugh (the few times I've played ME3). That part during Sur'Kesh where you go talk to Padok and you can see Wrex in the background talking to those salarians...the look on Wrex's face, the way he is smiling and laughing. All I could think of was, "Hold on! What is Wrex saying over there? I NEED to know what's going on. When he looks like that you know there's a whole world of funny going on." I think I will protest that tonight. Being robbed of Wrex's funnies.

As for a Thane/Wrex, oh yes I would do it. I doubt I'd be able to get any kills in myself but I'd pay just to see it. Take my money!!!

Give me Wrex and Thane!

Oh man Utaker

you just won my heart. Wrex, Zaeed, Grunt and Wreav are A+ in my book.

I'll just leave these links here, as you bathe in them

• Wrex
• Great Quotes
• Story Time
• Less then a Finger Deep to Sever Your Spine
• Genuine Bad****

[Tashash]

Mother of Chocolate! It's a bloody troll PACK!
Do I have have to sing the song again? I'll do it!

@Seifer - Wrex and Thane.......Team of Awesome.......Take my money!

[coldwetn0se]

@Seiffer006- I like this human! Love the Krogans...I love contrasts as well, which is why Wrex, Wreav, Grunt, and the Krogan human equivalent Zaeed, will always be fun paring with Thane. Very much contrasting, but oh-so deadly!

I also like taking Jack and Samara with Thane on missions; the contrast of Jack works great, and she is the human/female spitfire version of Wrex (at least as far as her abilities are concerned). Samara is perfect for the "two great wise minds" effect; both with interesting beliefs/codes, AND kick**** abilities.

[RShara]

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting. To reiterate some points, however:

So Thane fans have been getting a lot of drive-by posters who don't bother to read our reasons before posting that they thought his death was "fine" or "bad-ass", or "you knew he was ill, deal with it". I'd like to clarify, as briefly as I can, why it was fine in one way, and a travesty in another. Bullet pointed first, then more detail later.

What we're asking for is, at the very least, more interaction with him before he dies. Interaction that is in character for him, please, and not just a couple of thrown in lines that continue in the same thread that he's already in. A lot of us are to the point, however, where we want a full-on life extension or cure, just because we are so very disappointed in how he was handled, and the lack of respect that was given to his character and story.

We are NOT asking that the entire story is changed.  We are asking for an OPTIONAL addition where it's possible to save him if we take the right steps. WE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR THIS OPTION AS WELL!
You can see a flowchart of our propsal here: Thane Story Flowchart

We ARE asking that the romance be fixed to put in what Bioware has admitted they forgot about!


Yeah, I wasn't in charge of Thane, but I see Thane's death situation as one of those things that's the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn't click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

- Patrick Weekes.


Please, constructive replies are welcome, but please no flaming or drive-by posting. Informed responses!

Yes we understand that he said he was dying in the very first conversation, and romanced him anyway. These are the reasons why we expected to have more time with him and why we're unhappy with how he was handled.

Bullet point list:

1. There was no cure, despite CDN mention of Medigel for the lungs, the hanar cure, and Thane's transplant candidacy, mentioned in ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker.
2. Thane was not at peace with his death. He was not prepared to die. He was never destined to die.
3. He did not go out with "a bang," the heroic death that he wanted (if not romanced). A cure would not trivialize his death.
4. There's barely any difference between a friendShep's dialogue and a romanceShep's.  THANE DOES NOT EVEN UNLOCK THE PARAMOUR ACHIEVEMENT!
5. There's no shared mission with Thane. The side mission that really should have been his went to... Kasumi??
6. The death scene was impersonal, the same for both friendShep and a romanceShep's.
7. After he died, no one save Kai-Leng mentioned Thane's name again. No chance for Shepard to mourn or talk about him with others, romanced or not.

Modifié par RShara, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:06 .

[firel]

M. Hanky wrote...

when i said it was just a game it wasn't to dig at being passionate about thane, it was as a defense against those making it all personal. i do appreciate realism in games, and i get passionate about ME3 as well.

and I think it would have sucked if Liara died, too. in a way it would have been a bit more tragic, imho, because you weren't expecting it. with thane it may have been nice to save him, but as was pointed out multiple times throughout the game, you can't save everyone, not even everyone you care about. if nothing else, I honestly believe thane, mordin, and legion weren't enough. more of shepard's crew prolly should have died at some point as well, make the tragedy greater, bring out shepard's character even more. ultimately, however, i would have liked to see more of an impact/reaction to the deaths that were unavoidable. make the characters themselves more real.

What pisses me the most about Thane's treatment is how it's completely obvious that BW was too lazy to make any new content for him, and threw him against Kai Leng in order to get rid of him ASAP.
Ignoring the fact that by doing so they would alienate female players, especially since they also scrapped Jacob - Leading to femshep only having 2 straight options, and 4 lesbian options. I am all for lesbian gamers having a choice, but it's obvious who they were trying to cater to.. especially when you see the Femshep/Traynor shower scene... Certainly not female players, lesbian players just got lucky.
They threw us under the bus, and when we get outraged over the blatant sexism and laziness in regards to Thane's treatment they hide behind a "realistic" argument.
This is a game where Shepard came back from the dead, the genophage was cured, quarians adapt when before an opening in their suits could kill them (By the way, Tali should have died if romanced by M!Shep. That would have been realistic.), and the synthesis ending is possible. The whole game is riddled with space magic, so why isn't a stupid lung disease curable? Do you see the disconnect here? This is nothing but a total insult to their female customers, as if we would be too stupid to notice the difference in treatment.
The only two squadmates with unavoidable deaths are Legion and Thane. You have the option to save Mordin, I don't see anyone going around complaining that Mordin surviving in other people's games affects their game or "cheapens" his death. Why would this be any different with Thane? And while I was very sad about Legion's death, he was not an LI. Thane was, BW just forgot that the character they created solely to be an appealing LI for Femshep was an LI. If that doesn't scream neglect I don't know what does. And this thread, and all the remaining Thanemancers who want an option are here to remind Bioware to fix the mistake they already admitted to have made.