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Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance


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#6801
Seifer006

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Tashash wrote...

Mother of Chocolate! It's a bloody troll PACK!
Do I have have to sing the song again? I'll do it!

@Seifer - Wrex and Thane.......Team of Awesome.......Take my money!


my thoughts - www.youtube.com/watch MMMRRRRAAAWWWW

coldwetn0se wrote...

@Seiffer006- I like this human! Love
the Krogans...I love contrasts as well, which is why Wrex, Wreav,
Grunt, and the Krogan human equivalent Zaeed, will always be fun paring
with Thane. Very much contrasting, but oh-so deadly!


In ME2 Insanity Vanguard - I did an entire playthrough with Grunt & Zaeed. Nobody Does it Better

coldwetn0se wrote...
I also like
taking Jack and Samara with Thane on missions; the contrast of Jack
works great, and she is the human/female spitfire version of Wrex (at
least as far as her abilities are concerned). Samara is perfect for the
"two great wise minds" effect; both with interesting beliefs/codes, AND
kick**** abilities. :D :D


I actually did this also in ME2. Having Jack and Samara on my team It was like: Justice & Rebel =Together. You should read my Review ( Click on my Signature) I Polished Samara like a Diamond Ring

Modifié par Seifer006, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:15 .


#6802
Seifer006

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RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread

#6803
Tashash

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Seifer006 wrote...

my thoughts - www.youtube.com/watch MMMRRRRAAAWWWW


Bwahahahahahahaahahah!!!!! Posted Image

And with Thane it could be Warp, or a headshot.
Cerberus Baseball....*giggle snort*

Well, I'm out - gotta take my fur-kid walkies.

Edit.

Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


Oh you! Posted Image

Modifié par Tashash, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:16 .


#6804
mnomaha

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Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


Um, she wasn't talking about you Seifer. You've been popping in here for quite awhile. Plus, you're a Wrex fan. :)

Man, talking about Wrex and Grunt...it would have loved to have those two on my squad when we were fighting the Rachni. Man oh man, I could have some some damage.

#6805
RShara

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I didn't say you were a troll Seifer. I thought your Wrex and Grunt posts were funny :)

#6806
Seifer006

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mnomaha wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


Um, she wasn't talking about you Seifer. You've been popping in here for quite awhile. Plus, you're a Wrex fan. :)

Man, talking about Wrex and Grunt...it would have loved to have those two on my squad when we were fighting the Rachni. Man oh man, I could have some some damage.


ahh beauty.... I was...........well thanks for the clarity

before I go to bed. I hope the DLC will be 5 Star Awesomeness.

If, the DLC is like anything like this.........My Loyalty with Bioware is over

#6807
M. Hanky

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firel wrote...

What pisses me the most about Thane's treatment is how it's completely obvious that BW was too lazy to make any new content for him, and threw him against Kai Leng in order to get rid of him ASAP.
Ignoring the fact that by doing so they would alienate female players, especially since they also scrapped Jacob - Leading to femshep only having 2 straight options, and 4 lesbian options. I am all for lesbian gamers having a choice, but it's obvious who they were trying to cater to.. especially when you see the Femshep/Traynor shower scene... Certainly not female players, lesbian players just got lucky.
They threw us under the bus, and when we get outraged over the blatant sexism and laziness in regards to Thane's treatment they hide behind a "realistic" argument.


you know, this part I can get behind.

*sigh* just love how someone who disagrees is automatically branded a troll. to those of you who have honestly held a discussion to me, such as this person, I say thank you. to the rest who just tried to initiate a flame war... seriously, you guys need to learn how to have a discussion with more than one view-point expressed.

EDIT: just to reiterate, what I have in quotes I see the point of and even agree with.

Modifié par M. Hanky, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:29 .


#6808
Roxy

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firel wrote...

M. Hanky wrote...

when i said it was just a game it wasn't to dig at being passionate about thane, it was as a defense against those making it all personal. i do appreciate realism in games, and i get passionate about ME3 as well.

and I think it would have sucked if Liara died, too. in a way it would have been a bit more tragic, imho, because you weren't expecting it. with thane it may have been nice to save him, but as was pointed out multiple times throughout the game, you can't save everyone, not even everyone you care about. if nothing else, I honestly believe thane, mordin, and legion weren't enough. more of shepard's crew prolly should have died at some point as well, make the tragedy greater, bring out shepard's character even more. ultimately, however, i would have liked to see more of an impact/reaction to the deaths that were unavoidable. make the characters themselves more real.

What pisses me the most about Thane's treatment is how it's completely obvious that BW was too lazy to make any new content for him, and threw him against Kai Leng in order to get rid of him ASAP.
Ignoring the fact that by doing so they would alienate female players, especially since they also scrapped Jacob - Leading to femshep only having 2 straight options, and 4 lesbian options. I am all for lesbian gamers having a choice, but it's obvious who they were trying to cater to.. especially when you see the Femshep/Traynor shower scene... Certainly not female players, lesbian players just got lucky.
They threw us under the bus, and when we get outraged over the blatant sexism and laziness in regards to Thane's treatment they hide behind a "realistic" argument.
This is a game where Shepard came back from the dead, the genophage was cured, quarians adapt when before an opening in their suits could kill them (By the way, Tali should have died if romanced by M!Shep. That would have been realistic.), and the synthesis ending is possible. The whole game is riddled with space magic, so why isn't a stupid lung disease curable? Do you see the disconnect here? This is nothing but a total insult to their female customers, as if we would be too stupid to notice the difference in treatment.
The only two squadmates with unavoidable deaths are Legion and Thane. You have the option to save Mordin, I don't see anyone going around complaining that Mordin surviving in other people's games affects their game or "cheapens" his death. Why would this be any different with Thane? And while I was very sad about Legion's death, he was not an LI. Thane was, BW just forgot that the character they created solely to be an appealing LI for Femshep was an LI. If that doesn't scream neglect I don't know what does. And this thread, and all the remaining Thanemancers who want an option are here to remind Bioware to fix the mistake they already admitted to have made.


I couldn't have said it any better myself firel!  Posted Image

#6809
firel

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I am relatively new around here, but most people have had to deal with a battle that is so uphill it's pretty much a cliff - They have had to fight off actual trolls (ones that just come in and say Thane was a boring character and they're glad he died, etc.) and being completely ignored by the entirety of Bioware no matter the fact that they're the ones who have headed a ton of projects/campaigns, and dismissed as "stupid fangirls" constantly, day after day.. So I think it's normal for the Thane fanbase to be quite defensive. I think we are all willing to have a legitimate debate however, sorry if you were misunderstood.

#6810
coldwetn0se

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Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


She wasn't meaning you, my friend.  She saw that we had some trolls earlier today.  Some people don't care to read our original post (or any posts, at times), so she is just reiterating our issues.

As for your link to your review; I like it! *Thumps @Seiffer006 on the back*  I too really thought we would have more choices in our squadmates, and lack of characterization and story arcs for the non-squadmates was disappointing to say the least.  Well, here is to dreaming that something better comes along.  In the meantime, I feel the need to laugh, so I am going to find a bit of comedy....or make some for myself! *ZOINK!*Posted Image

*EDIT*
@M. Hanky - I don't think you are a troll.  Unfortunately it is common when a different view is dropped off, that Trolls follow the scent of dissent.  <gafaw!>  You had a few of them follow you (you are not to blame for that....just the interwebz for ya...)  As for our "hackles" being raised; we are a "Group on the Edge"  (cue melodramatic music)Posted Image.  Since the EC was released there have been a resurgence of Thane dying is cool, Thane was boring, Thane had to die and you are stoopid to think otherwise, blah,bleh, belch.  I personally have no problem with people believing whatever they wish to believe.  And they are more than welcome to express it.  But it doesn't change my mind in the slightest, just as I probably won't change their minds.  I still wish happy gaming for all.Posted Image

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:50 .


#6811
mnomaha

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M. Hanky wrote...

firel wrote...

What pisses me the most about Thane's treatment is how it's completely obvious that BW was too lazy to make any new content for him, and threw him against Kai Leng in order to get rid of him ASAP.
Ignoring the fact that by doing so they would alienate female players, especially since they also scrapped Jacob - Leading to femshep only having 2 straight options, and 4 lesbian options. I am all for lesbian gamers having a choice, but it's obvious who they were trying to cater to.. especially when you see the Femshep/Traynor shower scene... Certainly not female players, lesbian players just got lucky.
They threw us under the bus, and when we get outraged over the blatant sexism and laziness in regards to Thane's treatment they hide behind a "realistic" argument.


you know, this part I can get behind.

*sigh* just love how someone who disagrees is automatically branded a troll. to those of you who have honestly held a discussion to me, such as this person, I say thank you. to the rest who just tried to initiate a flame war... seriously, you guys need to learn how to have a discussion with more than one view-point expressed.

EDIT: just to reiterate, what I have in quotes I see the point of and even agree with.


Oi! I'll have you know I have a patent pending on *sigh* ing. LOL

You are most welcome to have a discussion with me/us. Like Coldi, you won't change my mind, but I can't help but hope I could change yours. :) We really just want some choices, in a game about choices. In my case, I would prefer heterosexual choices for most of my Sheps. The only thing I objected to about that is the lack of choices for a new romance in ME3...it was basically lesbian or nothing.

#6812
mnomaha

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coldwetn0se wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


She wasn't meaning you, my friend.  She saw that we had some trolls earlier today.  Some people don't care to read our original post (or any posts, at times), so she is just reiterating our issues.

As for your link to your review; I like it! *Thumps @Seiffer006 on the back*  I too really thought we would have more choices in our squadmates, and lack of characterization and story arcs for the non-squadmates was disappointing to say the least.  Well, here is to dreaming that something better comes along.  In the meantime, I feel the need to laugh, so I am going to find a bit of comedy....or make some for myself! *ZOINK!*Posted Image

*EDIT*
@M. Hanky - I don't think you are a troll.  Unfortunately it is common when a different view is dropped off, that Trolls follow the scent of dissent.  <gafaw!>  You had a few of them follow you (you are not to blame for that....just the interwebz for ya...)  As for our "hackles" being raised; we are a "Group on the Edge"  (cue melodramatic music)Posted Image.  Since the EC was released there have been a resurgence of Thane dying is cool, Thane was boring, Thane had to die and you are stoopid to think otherwise, blah,bleh, belch.  I personally have no problem with people believing whatever they wish to believe.  And they are more than welcome to express it.  But it doesn't change my mind in the slightest, just as I probably won't change their minds.  I still wish happy gaming for all.Posted Image



Actually, Donkey came to mind on that one. LOL *runs off to watch Shrek*

#6813
Guest_Squeegee83_*

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firel wrote...

I am relatively new around here, but most people have had to deal with a battle that is so uphill it's pretty much a cliff - They have had to fight off actual trolls (ones that just come in and say Thane was a boring character and they're glad he died, etc.) and being completely ignored by the entirety of Bioware no matter the fact that they're the ones who have headed a ton of projects/campaigns, and dismissed as "stupid fangirls" constantly, day after day.. So I think it's normal for the Thane fanbase to be quite defensive. I think we are all willing to have a legitimate debate however, sorry if you were misunderstood.


Well said firel, I have to agree. I been debating/fighting... been attack for far too long now. I run the #SaveThane, I know of the nightmare it has been. I come here today though and I understand M.Hanky's view points. I respect it because I understand where he is coming from. However I also understand where we are coming from as well. Both on a logical and emotional level stand point.

However due to the fact that I been nothing but a broken record, I become so tired of talking about this, so I just read instead. So I understand if someone here might get defensive quick. Although, for some of us who have been around for such a long time should know who is trolling and who is not. I don't feel like this person is trolling, just expressing his thoughts. So instead of getting mad, we should embrace it, learn from it and we will only become more wiser with it.

Modifié par Squeegee83, 04 juillet 2012 - 06:29 .


#6814
coldwetn0se

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<chuckle!> *Runs off to join Shell for a little green being watching......god I love green.* :D

#6815
mnomaha

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LOL *hands Coldi a pickle* ....did you know pickles have ridges? Wait! What are you doing woman? *sigh* Yeah, okay, she's cooing to the pickle...

Admit it, you thought I was going somewhere else with that, didn't you?

#6816
mnomaha

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Great google moogle, we now have 401 on our facebook page. :)

#6817
coldwetn0se

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*Rolls on floor, clutching her sides!* HAHAHA! And yeah....my mind totally went there....I fell right into your perfectly perverted trap! :D

Cool on the FB page. <claps>

#6818
wildannie

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M. Hanky wrote...

firel wrote...

What pisses me the most about Thane's treatment is how it's completely obvious that BW was too lazy to make any new content for him, and threw him against Kai Leng in order to get rid of him ASAP.
Ignoring the fact that by doing so they would alienate female players, especially since they also scrapped Jacob - Leading to femshep only having 2 straight options, and 4 lesbian options. I am all for lesbian gamers having a choice, but it's obvious who they were trying to cater to.. especially when you see the Femshep/Traynor shower scene... Certainly not female players, lesbian players just got lucky.
They threw us under the bus, and when we get outraged over the blatant sexism and laziness in regards to Thane's treatment they hide behind a "realistic" argument.


you know, this part I can get behind.

*sigh* just love how someone who disagrees is automatically branded a troll. to those of you who have honestly held a discussion to me, such as this person, I say thank you. to the rest who just tried to initiate a flame war... seriously, you guys need to learn how to have a discussion with more than one view-point expressed.

EDIT: just to reiterate, what I have in quotes I see the point of and even agree with.


The point you agree with is the central issue for me too and the reason I will continue to ask for a fix, I don't see why I should let what I perceive to be sexism slide. 

#6819
Seifer006

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coldwetn0se wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

RShara wrote...

For the trolls coming out of the woodwork, if you read the first post of this or ANY thread, you would know what we specifically are protesting.[/b]


Oh I see how it is. I'll stay away from this thread


She wasn't meaning you, my friend.  She saw that we had some trolls earlier today.  Some people don't care to read our original post (or any posts, at times), so she is just reiterating our issues.

As for your link to your review; I like it! *Thumps @Seiffer006 on the back*  I too really thought we would have more choices in our squadmates, and lack of characterization and story arcs for the non-squadmates was disappointing to say the least.  Well, here is to dreaming that something better comes along.  In the meantime, I feel the need to laugh, so I am going to find a bit of comedy....or make some for myself! *ZOINK!*Posted Image


Just Because


RShara wrote...

I didn't say you were a troll Seifer. I thought your Wrex and Grunt posts were funny :)


My Response

#6820
M. Hanky

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ok, so I been thinking about the whole dialogue not being that much different for thane even if you romanced him. please don't maim me or anything, but it actually kinda makes sense to me. I mean, if Thane knows he's dying, wouldn't he more or less be trying to keep you at arms length? He'd still be friendly, and stuff, but he, to spare both of you, might very well try to not bring up the romance very much in order to spare the both of you unneccesary pain. seems like a human thing to do. any thoughts?

#6821
Ariaya

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M. Hanky, while I do appreciate your point, I think keeping Shepard at arms length would be a dis-service to both of them. More likely than not, two people who are in love in the midst of grave illness would want to optimize their time together and cherish the moments that they do have. There is no magical switch that we can press to turn love off. Being remote or aloof toward Shepard would be, in my opinion, a misguided choice. That whole "I-love-you-so-I'm-going-to-push-you-away-to-spare-you-pain" a la Edward in "Twilight" seems very juvenile to me and not at all keeping with Thane's character.

Pain is inevitable in this situation. I'd much rather see the characters help one another through it. I think that most people would do everything that they could to comfort one another in such a situation.

#6822
coldwetn0se

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M. Hanky wrote...

ok, so I been thinking about the whole dialogue not being that much different for thane even if you romanced him. please don't maim me or anything, but it actually kinda makes sense to me. I mean, if Thane knows he's dying, wouldn't he more or less be trying to keep you at arms length? He'd still be friendly, and stuff, but he, to spare both of you, might very well try to not bring up the romance very much in order to spare the both of you unneccesary pain. seems like a human thing to do. any thoughts?


Ahhh.....some have proposed this idea, but it is still inconsistent with his character.  He knows just how strong Shepard is, considering that she is the one who "woke" him from his battlesleep.  She didn't wake him simply because she started flirting with him.  He actually begins expressing this well before the romance locks in, and he does this because she has helped him with his son (you get similar dialogue on the friend route as well, after his LM), and she has shown herself to be strong for her fellow squadmates.  This is also again conflicting with the letter you see in the LotSB dossier from Thane, which BW sent to those with imports into me3 that romanced Thane in ME2.  Here are a few key examples:

*from LotSB Letter resent in me3 to Thanemancers:

I once accepted my fate. Nothing remained but a shell destined to die. I only had to choose the when and how of my passing. I had refused to be confined to a bed, gasping horribly as my life beeped away to machinery I had no use for. I thought of my Irikah, broken, bloodied, and betrayed by my absence. Of Kolyat, small and afraid, bravely pushing at his eyes to stem the flow of tears I had entrusted to him to cry... for both our sakes.
The expectation to move swiftly to my end vanished upon uniting with your cause. You awoke me, Shepard. My heart quickened its sluggish beat if only to remain at your side and protect you with everything that I am. I was content to simply watch, take the time left given and praise all I know for allowing me to walk my final days with hope and certainty that I am worthy of more than my cold isolation, solely because you believed.
I love you. If all else whispers back into the tide, know this for fact. By grace given me by the Goddess Arashu, I bid her divine protection to you, my warrior-angel, my Siha, to succeed in your destiny. To light your path through the coming darkness. To give you hope, when all seems lost.


The lines in bold are not consistent with a Thane that wants to protect Shepard from his condition.  Nor are those words consistent with any of his dialogue in me3.  I have a full breakdown of the dialogue and my analysis if you are interested in reading it.  The fact that this letter ends up in-game, makes the inconsistencies with his character even more glaring to many of us.  Your thoughts on this matter, do come from a place that some people in Thane's place (i.e. terminally ill) would try and protect loved ones.  But, the majority of loved ones I have had that have become terminally ill have not tried to "go it alone", so to speak.  Their needs have still mattered to them (which is also very human), and in some cases it gave them strength to fight for more life; more time with said loved ones.  Everyone is different, and there is no wrong way to live/die/grieve, but in a story line, I do have an expectation of cohesion on behalf of the characters that are written.

Just my .02.  Happy gaming!Posted Image

#6823
utaker1988

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M. Hanky...have I seen people do that? Yes, I have. Personal experience aside but it really is a hard concept to grasp. The one being pushed away wants the opposite. The few happy moments that can be had because really, do they want their last memories to be one of distance? The one dying doesn't see that, all they see is wanting to help the other move on. In a way, it's kind of like acting like you are already dead. I am really fumbling here.

Ok, Thane wants Shep to be happy. I can't imagine his character and how he was presented to us would ever want Shep to go on until her death unhappy and alone. He would want her to move on. To make his passing easier, he's probably in the mindset of pushing her away. If her last moments with him are more like on friendship terms and not a romance, maybe he figures it would be easier for her to move on.

Now here is where the crux of the problem lies, it is in some human's nature to NOT pull away when a loved one is dying. They want to cherish all they can while they still have time. They don't want all the talk to be about the grim reaper standing right behind you.

If that is indeed Thane's intention, he wants to make his passing easier for her by distancing her, then it's understandable but for the one being pushed away it hurts. Would it have been better if they did have another set or two of dialogues? Yes. Give Shep that one last moment to tell him how she felt. A happy moment in the midst of war. I loved the shoot off with Garrus. It was great and for that moment, war was not the foremost thing on anyone's mind. Would I have been a little more content with a similar scene with Thane? Yes. I am of the mindset that a cure would automatically equal a happily ever after? No. I read the codex and the books. I am aware that there are hints that the average human lifespan in this time are somewhere near 150 years but a drell's average lifespan is 85 years. At some point, Shep would have to say goodbye to Thane. If she did live to 150 and he was cured and he lived to 85, she'd still end up without him  for 70+ years.  Right...my math is horrible these days.  There are 8 years between them so she'd roughly 77 when he died of old age.  Feel free to correct that.

Some of the issues lie with Liara saying during LotSB something along the lines of what you do with the time you do have. Well, Shep got detained for 6 of those months. Months that could have been spent with him. So really, they got shafted there. Would I find this a better pill to swallow if the whole detainment didn't happen or wasn't that long? Probably. Thane wanted to visit a desert. Didn't happen or we didn't see it. I suppose head canon could say they did but I think some would like a confirmation one way or another. Again, I do not speak for everyone. If I got clarification that for example, Shep wasn't immediately taken into custody..if they had a month or two before it happened then I could imagine the rest. I am one of the ones that does not need to see everything. Kind of like how I like the older horror movies, like Psycho, you didn't NEED to see her getting killed, they gave enough to let you imagine it. These days people NEED to see everything and forgo imagination.

His death I could accept but what was a bitter pill was the lack of dialogue, the recognition by achievement that I carried the romance to the end, and how it seemed no one remembered him after he died. FFS, he just saved a councilor. You would think someone would remember him.

Modifié par utaker1988, 04 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .


#6824
mnomaha

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Hm, you would think someone *besides us* would remember him...

#6825
utaker1988

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Did you ever get the feeling that someone was on the toilet during the final writing of ME3 and burst out with, "Oh, I think we forgot the green guy. The lizard!! WTF was his name! Oh dear, everyone is gone, let me just assign his writing to a chia pet. No one will ever know."