7876 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

God the DLC thread got a new troll... UGH

[giftfish]

Stop feeding the trolls! It's quite obvious he's probably 14, and most 14 yo boys think they know everything.

Then again, so do most 14 yo girls, lol...

Modifié par giftfish, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:37 .

[JECW]

He probably still lives with his mother and has nothing better to do with his time.

[giftfish]

Oh, he's certainly quite young from the language he uses.

Sorry, Renmiri1 -- not trying to be bossy at all, lol -- I have to stop myself from feeding the troll at least a dozen times/day.  Sigh.

Modifié par giftfish, 07 juillet 2012 - 01:27 .

[Renmiri1]

Ya, I just stopped.

Is tough!

[RShara]

Which troll? I see the two jokers who didn't bother to read.

Also, the Story Arc thread needs some love

[giftfish]

Attention Thane Fans!

Only 6 more days to cast your vote in the ME3 Romance DLC Survey. 

If you want more time with your LI, better side missions, improved character development and conversations, the chance at manking your LI a squaddie again, and many other improvements, please fill out the survey and be heard.

Click the link in my signature to access the survey!

Thanks

[Vlk3]

We could begin to make some funny mems/comics/pictures showing how ridiculous was Thane's fight with Kai Leng, Shepard's behaviour over dying Thane and so on, and then post them on facebook or tumblr. If people can't listen to serious arguments, maybe they will understand us through this way. It's also easier to draw attention and get people to sympathise, when you give them reason to laugh. Or so I think. I'll try to make something, but people rarely laugh at my jokes, so maybe someone could try that too. What do you think? There is also a thread for such things in Fan Creations forum.

[Steel Dancer]

I like that, Vik3. Something like having Shepard and squad playing cards in the background while Thane's fighting might just help to point out the fact that the "awesum fite" was awesomely dumb.

Sadly I have the artistic capability of a T-rex with two broken arms

[CHALET]

JECW wrote...

He probably still lives with his mother and has nothing better to do with his time.

You mean like posting on a message board to see a virtual character who died as a part of a story be revived for your personal fantasies. I think all of us can find something better to do with our time.

I'm sorry, but... I just had to get that one out of there. 

Two wrongs don't make a right, chaps. Don't go on about somebody being an "immature troll" then slander them in your private clique thread like you're so much better than they are. A lot of these 'troll' comments from people also seem to be baseless accusations brought about because you disagree with their opinion and you have a little club to back you up on ganging up on the person like the bloke with the Udina avatar who's name escapes me.

Meanwhile, here's a pic some people might like (not done by me obviously).

Modifié par CHALET, 07 juillet 2012 - 10:22 .

[RShara]

Mostly, we call people trolls who just won't listen to arguments, insist that their viewpoint is the only possible one, and calls us childish.

For example, I had a very nice long and reasonable discussion with several people over in the story arc thread, and several of them agreed with most of our viewpoints by the end.

[Armdin]

CHALET wrote...

JECW wrote...

He probably still lives with his mother and has nothing better to do with his time.

You mean like posting on a message board to see a virtual character who died as a part of a story be revived for your personal fantasies. I think all of us can find something better to do with our time.

I'm sorry, but... I just had to get that one out of there. 

Two wrongs don't make a right, chaps. Don't go on about somebody being an "immature troll" then slander them in your private clique thread like you're so much better than they are. A lot of these 'troll' comments from people also seem to be baseless accusations brought about because you disagree with their opinion and you have a little club to back you up on ganging up on the person like the bloke with the Udina avatar who's name escapes me.

Meanwhile, here's a pic some people might like (not done by me obviously).

+1 to you!

Really people, you're better than this! C:

[CHALET]

RShara wrote...

Mostly, we call people trolls who just won't listen to arguments, insist that their viewpoint is the only possible one, and calls us childish.

For example, I had a very nice long and reasonable discussion with several people over in the story arc thread, and several of them agreed with most of our viewpoints by the end.

Sort of like what a lot of you have been doing.

Just because a few people got brought around to your way of thinking doesn't justify trying to make somebody out to be The Devil. I just get sick of the passive aggressive attitude I'm starting to see from certain 'Save Thane' people, it's like those high school dramas with the blonde cheerleaders going around giggling and pointing at the less popular kids.

Modifié par CHALET, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:32 .

[Emeraldfern]

First off, I only speak for myself with this post so I'm not intending to sound as if I am speaking on behalf of others i.e, what follows in this post is my own stance and thoughts on how I act on this forum (and in RL as well):


I don't enter discussions because I "need to prove a point", I will however, state my opinions and arguments in discussions that I find relevant.

If arguments I provide offer insight and understanding, then that's great, but I don't insult people for having a personal opinion that differs from my own.

I may at times not agree at all with certain points others bring up, and as such I will react to it and bring up my own opinion and arguments if I find them to be relevant.

However at times, when a discussion is about to become more of a personal argument, I tend to pull away (and mentally flip a table to calm myself down) if there is a specific person that's provoking me.

Because at that point the discussion will probably turn into an argument that will lead to nothing except for ire on both parts. And what good does that do? Nothing!

However being 100% unprovocative in a discussion is nigh impossible, someone, somewhere, sometime, will take offense at what another person says and in return, react to that.

I realise that sometimes that person might be me.

And when I do sense that "Oops...I provoked someone in a way I didn't intend to"-sense tingling, I try to either pull out or, if I re-read something and find I crossed a line, apologise.

And having said this, I also realise that yes, there will be times that I will fail to do the above either because "I don't know what my feelings are doing" or because I don't see that I made an error.

And to be frank, to err is human however, I try to make as few of those as I can, and if I make one, then I should try to make up for it.

My 2 c's anyway.

[firel]

Vlk3 wrote...

We could begin to make some funny mems/comics/pictures showing how ridiculous was Thane's fight with Kai Leng, Shepard's behaviour over dying Thane and so on, and then post them on facebook or tumblr. If people can't listen to serious arguments, maybe they will understand us through this way. It's also easier to draw attention and get people to sympathise, when you give them reason to laugh. Or so I think. I'll try to make something, but people rarely laugh at my jokes, so maybe someone could try that too. What do you think? There is also a thread for such things in Fan Creations forum.

I've actually been working on a comic like this, where after Thane's death Kaidan, Liara, Traynor and Allers all start humping Femshep.. literally.

[Moira-chan]

Steel Dancer wrote...

I like that, Vik3. Something like having Shepard and squad playing cards in the background while Thane's fighting might just help to point out the fact that the "awesum fite" was awesomely dumb.

Sadly I have the artistic capability of a T-rex with two broken arms

yeah...or probaly sitting there eating popcorn (that was my impression) and garrus (anyone) wants to poke shep like: "hey, don't you want to help"
and shep: "pssst! it wanna see this awesome fight"

[karushna5]

CHALET wrote...

Sort of like what a lot of you have been doing.

Just because a few people got brought around to your way of thinking doesn't justify trying to make somebody out to be The Devil. I just get sick of the passive aggressive attitude I'm starting to see from certain 'Save Thane' people, it's like those high school dramas with the blonde cheerleaders going around giggling and pointing at the less popular kids.

Thank you. I have never heard it better put. I usually have bursts with being on the internet, and then this stuff makes me not touch a computer for months. To be fair, most people do it on the internet. It is like the anonymity is an invitation to be a bully. Even the nicest people give into it sometimes.

What is wrong with being a 14 year old with opinions? Some of them are very mature.

Lots of people live with parents for a multitude of reasons. People are people and all are worthy of respect.

[JECW]

Are we honeslty being attacked in our own thread for giving an opinion on a troll in another thread.

Modifié par JECW, 08 juillet 2012 - 09:20 .

[BeanieBat]

Moira-chan wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

I like that, Vik3. Something like having Shepard and squad playing cards in the background while Thane's fighting might just help to point out the fact that the "awesum fite" was awesomely dumb.

Sadly I have the artistic capability of a T-rex with two broken arms

yeah...or probaly sitting there eating popcorn (that was my impression) and garrus (anyone) wants to poke shep like: "hey, don't you want to help"
and shep: "pssst! it wanna see this awesome fight"

My mind went straight to cake with Thane calling out to ask if Shepard would mind helping out but Shep just replies "There's cake, Thane. Cake!"  Maybe even Thane cake... =P

Edit: spelling... =[

Modifié par BeanieBat, 08 juillet 2012 - 09:57 .

[mythlover20]

JECW wrote...

Are we honeslty being attacked in our own thread for giving an opinion on a troll in another thread.

Sadly, yep, it looks like it. And I've never seen any of those people before on any Thane thread.

The first one did make me stop and think for a bit. I mean, is this really how we come off to other people. But then I stopped and stepped back further and thought: "dude, you're doing the exact same thing now."

I feel they must be in the same demographic as the original troll on the other threads. Granted, that one person did have a point: some 14 year olds do have opinions that can, on rare occassion, be reasonably mature. But most, and by that I mean about 99% of them, do not have the knowledge base or the experience or the wisdom to develope mature opinions. I certainly didn't. Neither did anyone I know, young or old.

Just like we have a group of like-minded people with similiar life experiences to support us, they do to. Most likely the Tali and Liara groups or something, they seem to be the most active hate-group around at the moment. (I said SEEMS, don't jump down my throat already).

They also obviously don't grasp the metaphorical and philosophical implications of Thane's treatment, and frankly I'm not awake enough to try to enlighten them on their and society's ableistic tendencies.

Anyway, we need something to make us happy now. So.....

THANE PLUSHIE HOLIDAY PICS!!!! 

Thane and the Brisbane night time cityscape from our hotel balcony.


Thane and Me waiting for the Sunlander which was 2.5 hours late.


Thane being a wonderful gentleman and helping me pack.


And Thane, enjoying a lazy day in bed yesterday while mum and me were out shopping.


I'm posting all of them in the other Thane Thread so if you want to see them all, head over there.

[CHALET]

mythlover20 wrote...

JECW wrote...

Are we honeslty being attacked in our own thread for giving an opinion on a troll in another thread.

Sadly, yep, it looks like it. And I've never seen any of those people before on any Thane thread.

The first one did make me stop and think for a bit. I mean, is this really how we come off to other people. But then I stopped and stepped back further and thought: "dude, you're doing the exact same thing now."

I feel they must be in the same demographic as the original troll on the other threads. Granted, that one person did have a point: some 14 year olds do have opinions that can, on rare occassion, be reasonably mature. But most, and by that I mean about 99% of them, do not have the knowledge base or the experience or the wisdom to develope mature opinions. I certainly didn't. Neither did anyone I know, young or old.

Just like we have a group of like-minded people with similiar life experiences to support us, they do to. Most likely the Tali and Liara groups or something, they seem to be the most active hate-group around at the moment. (I said SEEMS, don't jump down my throat already).

They also obviously don't grasp the metaphorical and philosophical implications of Thane's treatment, and frankly I'm not awake enough to try to enlighten them on their and society's ableistic tendencies.

This is what I'm talking about. Every single criticism or point from the 'other side' is immediately brushed off between a small number of you as "they're just trolls!" "they're just attacking us!" "they don't understand us!" rather than actually just settling on the fact some people agree, some people disagree. I'm not trying to start a war here or I'd go ahead and start firing off names and my own flames, I'm trying to bring up a concern I have noted as quickly becoming bigger and bigger. Remember Tali-mancers? Yeah, we all know where their negative stigma came from. 

It's like an organised witch-hunt whenever you people call somebody a troll. "He agress with killing Thane! He's a dirty troll who will never understand us! He must be unsocial and an immature fourteen year old!". Don't question someones mental health just because you disagree with them, it's frankly pathetic. 

The only people looking immature are the Thane-mancers acting exactly like how they describe the people they brand trolls. I'm not saying it's all of you - or even a majority -  but there is a vocal number.

Modifié par CHALET, 08 juillet 2012 - 12:47 .

[Bluecansam]

I understand and see what you're saying, and I agree that perhaps we should reassess how we approach opposition in each thread. I think this sort of reaction isn't based in a feeling of superiority any of us Save Thane people have, but rather a defensiveness built up over months of people telling us our opinions don't matter because we romanced a character we knew was terminally ill. People have repeatedly told us - everywhere - that we should shut up and take what we were given because dying by a sword is better than dying by a disease, the fight was "awesome", we knew he was dying, etc. we provide well-reasoned counter arguments to which they say the same things back to us over and over without stopping to address what we're arguing. I think if you look back on many of those threads, you will find that we at least address their arguments, with varying degrees of success. However, when a thread has 20+ pages of people coming in and saying the same argument over and over, usually when it has been addressed in the first post, it is reasonable to assume that they are either trolling or not willing to take the time to formulate a new, well-reasoned argument.

As for the guy with the Udina avatar, if we're talking about the same person, he's the guy who was calling the drell useless idiot lizards or something similar. In a Thane thread. That's in addition to a wealth of other really offensive stuff. If he wasn't looking to start a flame war, if he wasn't a troll, he's likely an ****hole. In which case, calling him a troll is being nice.

[giftfish]

Bluecansam wrote...

I understand and see what you're saying, and I agree that perhaps we should reassess how we approach opposition in each thread. I think this sort of reaction isn't based in a feeling of superiority any of us Save Thane people have, but rather a defensiveness built up over months of people telling us our opinions don't matter because we romanced a character we knew was terminally ill. People have repeatedly told us - everywhere - that we should shut up and take what we were given because dying by a sword is better than dying by a disease, the fight was "awesome", we knew he was dying, etc. we provide well-reasoned counter arguments to which they say the same things back to us over and over without stopping to address what we're arguing. I think if you look back on many of those threads, you will find that we at least address their arguments, with varying degrees of success. However, when a thread has 20+ pages of people coming in and saying the same argument over and over, usually when it has been addressed in the first post, it is reasonable to assume that they are either trolling or not willing to take the time to formulate a new, well-reasoned argument.

As for the guy with the Udina avatar, if we're talking about the same person, he's the guy who was calling the drell useless idiot lizards or something similar. In a Thane thread. That's in addition to a wealth of other really offensive stuff. If he wasn't looking to start a flame war, if he wasn't a troll, he's likely an ****hole. In which case, calling him a troll is being nice.

This post is very well said, and Chalet has some good points, as well.  Many of us can get very frustrated from time to time, constantly being on the defensive about this issue.  When we get too frustrated, some of us start to stoop to the same level as the troll, rather than holding ourselves to a higher standard.  And, everyone has bad days when they are a bit more short-tempered or sensitive than others.  We're human, too.

But, Chalet, Bluecansam is absolutely right.  This isn't at all about Thane-supporters feeling superior, or that our favored  LI "matters" more than any of the other LIs, etc.  It's about many of us feeling attacked on a pretty regular basis by other forum posters, and getting defensive as a result.  Some of us handle that better than others.

What I hope you understand is that when many forumites post opposite opinions, it is often *how* they present their opinion that causes issues, rather than *what* their opinion actually is.  While most of us will disagree with these opposing viewpoints, as long as the poster is respectful, most people here certainly won't attack or belittle  them solely based on their opinion.  We certainly will, however,  attempt to engage them in a discussion to better  explain our viewpoint.  The issue is that quite commonly posters with contrary opinions are flat out rude towards many of us.  Being rude and "trollish" then puts us on the defensive from the get-go.  

And, of course age does not negate, or validate for that matter, anyone's opinion.   Just because someone is young (14, or what have you) doesn't mean that we don't respect their opinion.  However, when those people start to attack Thane-posters in an obviously immature manner ("y don't u go find someone 2 love u", or whatnot), it is difficult to give their opinion any credence whatsoever; as it is obvious that their lack of maturity (partly a result of their age) is what is increasing their proclivity to engage in this type of behavior.  It also becomes difficult to have any type of productive dialogue with them, because they are too busy insulting the Thane-supporter.  And yes, some of us can have a difficult time finding the off-switch in those situations.  

For whatever reason the topic of Thane's storyline is very polarzed.  It is quite self-evident that many commenters don't understand his romance in ME2, because they haven't actually played through it.  To them ME3 is fine, because Thane's actions in ME3 make sense to them.  Having to constantly point out the same information to commenters like this, who don't bother to inform themselves on how Thane changes upon romancing Shepard is very tiring, and also contributes to the vehemence in some posts of Thane-supporters.

As far as dropping back into this thread and discussing the trolls, other posters, etc, I think this is mostly about having somewhere to vent frustration.  After being attacked all over the forums for our opinions, if there is one place we should be able to go and vent and feel safe from other attacks, it is in the Thane-support threads.  It would be nice if BSN had a "conversation" feature, where many people could participate in a dialogue privately, but it doesn't.  And honestly, if venting here helps someone stay calmer and keep things more constructive in a different thread where they are having a heated discussion about Thane, then I think that's an acceptable tradeoff.

But, certainly, yes, Thane supporters can try to do better.  If everyone on these forums could try to remain civil and respectful, despite differences in opinion, just imagne the discussions we could have...

Modifié par giftfish, 08 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[Roxy]

giftfish wrote...

Bluecansam wrote...

I understand and see what you're saying, and I agree that perhaps we should reassess how we approach opposition in each thread. I think this sort of reaction isn't based in a feeling of superiority any of us Save Thane people have, but rather a defensiveness built up over months of people telling us our opinions don't matter because we romanced a character we knew was terminally ill. People have repeatedly told us - everywhere - that we should shut up and take what we were given because dying by a sword is better than dying by a disease, the fight was "awesome", we knew he was dying, etc. we provide well-reasoned counter arguments to which they say the same things back to us over and over without stopping to address what we're arguing. I think if you look back on many of those threads, you will find that we at least address their arguments, with varying degrees of success. However, when a thread has 20+ pages of people coming in and saying the same argument over and over, usually when it has been addressed in the first post, it is reasonable to assume that they are either trolling or not willing to take the time to formulate a new, well-reasoned argument.

As for the guy with the Udina avatar, if we're talking about the same person, he's the guy who was calling the drell useless idiot lizards or something similar. In a Thane thread. That's in addition to a wealth of other really offensive stuff. If he wasn't looking to start a flame war, if he wasn't a troll, he's likely an ****hole. In which case, calling him a troll is being nice.

This post is very well said, and Chalet has some good points, as well.  Many of us can get very frustrated from time to time, constantly being on the defensive about this issue.  When we get too frustrated, some of us start to stoop to the same level as the troll, rather than holding ourselves to a higher standard.  And, everyone has bad days when they are a bit more short-tempered or sensitive than others.  We're human, too.

But, Chalet, Bluecansam is absolutely right.  This isn't at all about Thane-supporters feeling superior, or that our favored  LI "matters" more than any of the other LIs, etc.  It's about many of us feeling attacked on a pretty regular basis by other forum posters, and getting defensive as a result.  Some of us handle that better than others.

What I hope you understand is that when many forumites post opposite opinions, it is often *how* they present their opinion that causes issues, rather than *what* their opinion actually is.  While most of us will disagree with these opposing viewpoints, as long as the poster is respectful, most people here certainly won't attack or belittle  them solely based on their opinion.  We certainly will, however,  attempt to engage them in a discussion to better  explain our viewpoint.  The issue is that quite commonly posters with contrary opinions are flat out rude towards many of us.  Being rude and "trollish" then puts us on the defensive from the get-go.  

And, of course age does not negate, or validate for that matter, anyone's opinion.   Just because someone is young (14, or what have you) doesn't mean that we don't respect their opinion.  However, when those people start to attack Thane-posters in an obviously immature manner ("y don't u go find someone 2 love u", or whatnot), it is difficult to give their opinion any credence whatsoever; as it is obvious that their lack of maturity (partly a result of their age) is what is increasing their proclivity to engage in this type of behavior.  It also becomes difficult to have any type of productive dialogue with them, because they are too busy insulting the Thane-supporter.  And yes, some of us can have a difficult time finding the off-switch in those situations.  

For whatever reason the topic of Thane's storyline is very polarzed.  It is quite self-evident that many commenters don't understand his romance in ME2, because they haven't actually played through it.  To them ME3 is fine, because Thane's actions in ME3 make sense to them.  Having to constantly point out the same information to commenters like this, who don't bother to inform themselves on how Thane changes upon romancing Shepard is very tiring, and also contributes to the vehemence in some posts of Thane-supporters.

As far as dropping back into this thread and discussing the trolls, other posters, etc, I think this is mostly about having somewhere to vent frustration.  After being attacked all over the forums for our opinions, if there is one place we should be able to go and vent and feel safe from other attacks, it is in the Thane-support threads.  It would be nice if BSN had a "conversation" feature, where many people could participate in a dialogue privately, but it doesn't.  And honestly, if venting here helps someone stay calmer and keep things more constructive in a different thread where they are having a heated discussion about Thane, then I think that's an acceptable tradeoff.

But, certainly, yes, Thane supporters can try to do better.  If everyone on these forums could try to remain civil and respectful, despite differences in opinion, just imagne the discussions we could have...

Well said,the both of you! I couldn't have said it any better!



Something just happened in my game that just got me laughing....



Has this ever happened in your game before?

[Twilight_Princess]

Well said guys.  I also want to add something else that’s very telling. People protesting Thane’s treatment actually LISTEN and READ the objections of the majority that don’t see a problem. We do that so that we can produce good counter arguments for them all and for what I’ve seen we have. What I don’t normally see is the same consideration from the other side.  I could make a bingo card for the typical responses because it’s become so predictable.  And no matter what you say or put out there ( or the effort you put in to making a the first post lay out all the issues for the uninformed *cough*), you will still hear the same dismissive comments that don’t address the actual problems we list.

I remember in a thane related thread I threw in my 2 cents over how (from a romanced perspective) the fight scene was bad. I said even Patrick Weekes admitted the writers “dropped the ball” during the scene.
Immediately I was told by a poster that “he was talking about his romance not the fight scene” . And I told the poster no, Patrick was talking about the fight scene being flawed because they forgot that crucial detail. I was then demanded a link to prove it. So I did. Was there any further discussion about the quote I posted after being told to prove it? NOPE.  So this person PRETENDED to know what quote I was on about and accused me of interpreting it wrong then told me to link the quote to prove it existed and then didn’t respond to it or acknowledge it when I did.
 
In similar fashion, Thane fans get accused of having an unrealistic expectation by believing thane was going to live in ME3. If you call bioware THEMSELVES promoting and advertising the cause to cure Thane unrealistic that is. So we aren’t allowed to feel misled even though we were fed false hope by the creators themselves? Both in-game and out? Again , rarely do I see direct responses  to these types of points (especially when they have proof behind them).

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .