7876 réponses à ce sujet

[Sealy]

... That Liara flashback is beginning to make my eye twitch. Grrrrr.

[RGC_Ines]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Not just Thane.  Apparently there's really no option to call Kaidan out for getting huffy about the ME2 romances like there is with Ashley.  Shep either lies or gives some pretty lame response.  I get that Kaidan's less cranky than Ash, but son of a gun, let me at least call him on his bull.

Really?  Now I know who is " canon" female Shep LI....Never mind. I like Kaidan a lot, and I romanced him in ME1. I even have one Shep who didn't move on after he left her on Horizon ( was very hard to avoid Thane) and maybe I will play with her in a future. But all my other Sheps loved Thane and it's unfair that nowhere in game I can show him that Shep love and care about him. I was angry after " hospital" dialog with Kaidan and the fact, that right after Thane's death he wanted to return to my Shep. i choose  option that we should be just friend and nothing more, and I think, that any of my Shepard who romanced with Thane will be again with someone.

[Cyansomnia]

I'm seriously glad I never made a multiple LI playthrough involving Thane. I would have thrown a rock through a window after experiencing that. I wanted to call Kaidan on his bull, cause I DO in fact have a Kai/Garrus game where I wanted to do so. Guess that's not going to go how I imagined.

Anyway, you are right about fighting and trying to keep up morale. It's just at this point, I'm pretty upset and bitter about how the whole thing went down. Their little teasers on twitter are like poking at the bear. Seriously.

I'm still so heartbroken and frustrated. If they somehow magically came out with a DLC that involved a mission with Thane (or he rejoins the squad) and you keep him alive...

That would be great, but it would also make me incredibly angry that in order to get what I wanted I have to buy MORE DLC. Not to mention in the first place, I had to deal with his crappy pseudo-romance scene and death.

Yes, I'd take it, but I'm not letting them live it down.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 15 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[Lambda Diamond]

Thanes Death was fine and epic.

[Cyansomnia]

Lambda Diamond wrote...

Thanes Death was fine and epic.

Not for the people who romanced him.  And if you don't want to see it from our perspective, than all I can say is that I wholeheartedly disagree.  

Would you like your love interest to show up for one awkward scene and then die?  No, I didn't think so.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 15 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Sarah1281]

Why would they go through the trouble of giving you a choice of having Kirrahe take Thane's place in the Kai Leng fight if Thane was going to end up dying either way from his disease??

In case Thane died but Kirrahe didn't or you didn't bother visiting Thane so the salarian councillor has a better chance presumably.

Femshep has to apologize, but Mshep gets a choice not to.

That scene made me mad, too, actually. Male Shepard gets to tell Ashley that she doesn't get to be mad. I'm on Ashley's side here. BS, of course she gets to be mad! It doesn't matter if Shepard's actually done anything wrong, the freak accident that led to him dying and getting revived by Cerberus where she did act very non-supportive on Horizen gives her every right to be upset!

One of those pictures of Thane earlier in the thread kind of freaked me out because it looked like he just had empty eye sockets...

[JECW]

Hainkpe wrote...

JECW wrote...
I was really pissed at that moment.
Femshep has to apologize, but Mshep gets a choice not to.

WTF? No. That's just wrong. It's okay for male Shepard to be with someone else but female Shepard has to apologize. Talk abou double standards.

It appears that FemSep either lies to Kaidan about the other relationship or apologizes for it, but MShep gets to call Ashley on her behavior on horizon and doesn't have to apologize.

[lyssalu]

JECW wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

JECW wrote...

Exactly I don't like how she puts her face in her hands apologizing. Kaidan doesn't even sound that hurt, but Sheapard sound like she did the worst thing ever by choosing Thane.

Yet another moment of when I would have wanted to slap my Shepard. No, thane was not a mistake. No. NO. Thane was the right choice. My original Shepard didn't choose Kaidan in ME and Virmired him. Good choice. I take it back, I would have just kicked Shepard not slapped. 

Thank God Ash was just whiney. I can live with that. 

I was really pissed at that moment.
Femshep has to apologize, but Mshep gets a choice not to.

but everyone knows women shouldn't cheat ever and that it's just something men were born to do!

creys

[lyssalu]

Lambda Diamond wrote...

Thanes Death was fine and epic.

[Sable Rhapsody]

JECW wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

JECW wrote...
I was really pissed at that moment.
Femshep has to apologize, but Mshep gets a choice not to.

WTF? No. That's just wrong. It's okay for male Shepard to be with someone else but female Shepard has to apologize. Talk abou double standards.

It appears that FemSep either lies to Kaidan about the other relationship or apologizes for it, but MShep gets to call Ashley on her behavior on horizon and doesn't have to apologize.

Maybe it's because Kaidan's a brat and can't take the truth, so Shep has to softball him.

*sigh*  That was probably uncharitable of me.  I like Kaidan, I really do.  I'm saving him instead of Ash for my super canonical playthrough.  But I really, REALLY do not like the VS's ninjamance/romance priority in ME3.

Liara suffered from a little of that in ME1, but it's just puppy love.  You tell her no and she gets the idea; she grows out of it into a friend and ally.  Ash and esp. Kaidan seem to EXPECT Shep to still have feelings for them, almost feel entitled to Shep.  That's honestly kinda gross.

[Cyansomnia]

The head canon I had for my 'moving on' Shepard, as I like to call it, was that she figured after Horizon things were over. Garrus was there the whole time for her, while Kaidan wasn't. Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Kaidan. My character is just a vindictive Renegon.

I wanted the option to tell him off, instead of apologize, because it seemed like a good option for people who wanted to stick with their ME2 romance. I assumed it would be there.

What lyssalu said, apparently us women have to be loyal regardless of treatment and can't stand up for our own feelings. How incredibly lame.

[mnomaha]

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

[Cyansomnia]

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

Same here.  I am known for my overwhelming honesty and bluntness.  

[mnomaha]

Well, that and your awesome videos.

[lyssalu]

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

yep 

[JECW]

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

Pretty much this.
I really hated that MShep not only got to call Ashely on horizon, but he doesn't have back down either.
FemShep has to apologize for hurting Kaidan's feeling, but I noticed she didn't apologize to Thane for not telling him about Kaidan.

[Julia_xo]

When Thane asks Shepard if she and Kaidan have grown apart she doesn't even give him a direct answer. Just a blank stare ".........." D:

It is very frustrating. Why can't Shepard confirm that it's over with Kaidan?

You can watch the conversation starting at around :40

[Emeraldfern]

Since Thane was my favorite squadmate and LI, I was seriosly stumped about not having a choice regarding Thane's death, and I also disliked that we get what? One conversation and not even a paramour achievment? What the.. So I agree 100% with the OP. There should be DLC to cure Thane otherwise I'm not sure I even want to play ME3 again.
Then again I totally feel for the other ME2 love intrests that got subpar treatment, especially Jacob's I mean that was just way low...

[utaker1988]

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

And that is why I get myself into trouble, 'tis also why the word b***h is used in my direction.   Although my current husand is not my first, the first was an abusive a**hole.  I left it when I grew a set, some will say to me, "oh you poor thing."  And I will say, "don't poor thing me, I was the weak one who stayed there and took it."  I'm not saying I deserved it, no one does, but it didn't have to last 17 years.  I'm old...38.  So, yes I play my Shep with the same attitude I have....I don't like having people make my choices for me.  I know some will say, "it's game, how many choices do you think you are entitled too?"  Ummmm...how about the same amount I was given int the first 2, there was a response for just about every personality.  What they did was take my Shep and change her.  It's like Harbinger got ahold of her and bent her to his will.  

The Shep I got in that hospital scene with Kaidan was not my Shep.  She would not have apologized for moving on and loving Thane.  What they gave was crap.  Now that I think of it, I don't want this woman trying to save the galaxy, she can't even properly defend herself about her feelings. 

[Daicotje]

JECW wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

Pretty much this.
I really hated that MShep not only got to call Ashely on horizon, but he doesn't have back down either.
FemShep has to apologize for hurting Kaidan's feeling, but I noticed she didn't apologize to Thane for not telling him about Kaidan.

Maybe it's because Thane isn't a romantic option anymore <_<
At this point in the game, I took the renegade option because I wanted to set Kaidan straight. When that didn't happen I started thinking maybe the "I'm sorry" option was not "I'm sorry for betraying you" but "I'm sorry but I'm in love with Thane now". So I redid that part to take the paragon option... and wanted to punch my Shep in the face...
Seriously, it feels as though Shep really had something shallow going on with Thane, while I get the feeling theirs is the deepest of al romance options...

[Aeyl]

Daicotje wrote...

JECW wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Well, I know most of you agree, but will only speak for myself on this.

I am NOT some meek mild mannered, brow-beaten, weak willed woman who will not speak her mind. I am a grownas$ woman who speaks her mind, for better or worse, and one who does not like being directed down a certain decision path. There were meant to be choices in this game, far more choices than we were given. I am thoroughly disappointed.

Pretty much this.
I really hated that MShep not only got to call Ashely on horizon, but he doesn't have back down either.
FemShep has to apologize for hurting Kaidan's feeling, but I noticed she didn't apologize to Thane for not telling him about Kaidan.

Maybe it's because Thane isn't a romantic option anymore <_<
At this point in the game, I took the renegade option because I wanted to set Kaidan straight. When that didn't happen I started thinking maybe the "I'm sorry" option was not "I'm sorry for betraying you" but "I'm sorry but I'm in love with Thane now". So I redid that part to take the paragon option... and wanted to punch my Shep in the face...
Seriously, it feels as though Shep really had something shallow going on with Thane, while I get the feeling theirs is the deepest of al romance options...

After reading all of this I'm really surprised at how Femshep's character seems to get a bit warped at this part of the game. 

I didn't romance Kaidan in the first game, so I never knew things like that could happen. Seems to be even more of a facepalm moment that they're making her apologise for loving Thane

[Saodade]

JECW wrote...

This message was sent to me from Visii. She asked me to post this on her behalf.


Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane

I will speak about Thane in particular, but so far as it goes, all the ME2 romancable characters suffered in ME3.

Seeing as ME2 romances can’t be started in ME3, essentially, the romance scenes in ME3 are only for those who played the previous game. While this of course creates scenes and dialogue that some people will not see, it isn’t any more of a “waste” than any other scenes and dialogue that some Shepard’s won’t see due to decisions or deaths that occurred in the previous games.


The Retcon
TL;DR: Thane's character swung from resigned with his coming death to determined and passionate about his life, and then back to the former. That's not development, that's flip-flopping.

In ME2, once recruited, Thane was cool and emotionless regarding his mortality. His wife had been dead for a decade, and he had been separated from his son during that period while he hunted down her killers. Revenge exacted, he took on the Dantius commission in the hopes of putting an end to his life. If reunited with Kolyat and romanced, Thane becomes increasingly distressed over the prospect of dying; he has people to love and lose, people who will mourn him when he dies. The culmination of the romance scene illustrated Thane's change in perspective; no longer was he resigned and unemotional about his mortality. In Mass Effect 3, romanced or otherwise Thane is back to the way he was at the beginning of ME2. This is wrong.

The Illness
TL;DR: Keprals should have been curable, or the disease stabilized to extend Thane's life so that he could live long enough to receive the Hanar cure. Too much foreshadowing was made and all of it was ignored.

Keprals Syndrome to me was tipping towards the ridiculous when it came to Thane, just as the multiple rapes in Jack's history overburdened her already tragic childhood. It was more than enough that his wife was murdered as a result of his profession. The effect Keprals syndrome had in ME2 was much like Miranda's father, unseen and only spoken of in distant terms, a specter of the future. Time is important here. Directly after being recruited, during the first conversation on the Normandy, Thane mentioned that the Hanar were working on a cure; he just didn't expect that he would live long enough to benefit from it. In Lair of the Shadow Broker, Thane's dossier showed that he was an eligible transplant candidate, but he refused; it is unclear when it occurred, so it is unknown whether or not he refused pre- or post meeting Shepard. But the important information here is that it was possible for Thane to receive a transplant which would extend his life. There would not need to be a miracle cure because there was already one in the works by the Hanar. In addition, the CDN mentioned a new medigel for the lungs that would revolutionize internal medicine; I hope I need not explain how this could immediately benefit Thane.

All that foreshadowing, dismissed. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information. There seemed to be a calculated amount of information released, that no hoops were required to jump through to put together. his was a slap in the face. If Thane was always slated to die, why give any information at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure? Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3" banner, giving more hope to fans? If this isn't trolling, I don't know any other name for it.

In the Mass Effect universe, Shepard was been brought back to life from unquestionable death. Mordin threw together a Genophage cure. Making those two things happen while stating that extending Thane's life wasn't possible despite all this information is simply contradictory and nonsensical.
_________

The Romance
TL;DR: If in ME3 Thane's romance was "bittersweet" someone, or a lot of someones, forgot the "sweet" part. This was not "satisfying", and anyone who even tries to claim it was has no clue what they're talking about.

To those that say, "you knew what you were getting into when you romanced the dying drell" you are callous, correct and incorrect all at once. The important word here is "romanced". At the end of ME2, Thane and Shepard had begun a relationship. Most of Thane's dialogue was not romance related; out of all the ME2 romances, the only other characters with less romantic dialogue are Samara/Morinth and Kelly (the VS too, I suppose, but they bloody made up for it in Mass Effect 3, didn't they?). During Lair of the Shadow Broker, Liara asks if Shepard is fighting for Thane, to spend time with him before the inevitable, that it is not how long they have together, but how they spend that time.

A beautiful, bittersweet sentiment. However, Thane and Shepard get almost no time together, either on-screen or off. After Arrival, Shepard is taken into custody for the next six months, three months longer than Thane expected he would be without symptoms. When found at Huerta memorial, he is in the final stages of Keprals syndrome. The difference in dialogue between a Shepard that romanced Thane and one that did not is minimal, and there is no option to ask Thane about a transplant (even though the game checks if LOtSB was completed) or the medigel for the lungs, or the state of the Hanar cure, or even the "alien medigel only of interest to the Hanar" that could be found during that one N7 mission.

With the exception of Jacob, all the other LI's get dates and special scenes and private moments. One kissing scene does not constitute as a romance continuation. If they theme was a bittersweet, premature end to a relationship, where was the sweet part? Not in ME3, that's for certain.

Thane's Death
TL:DR: Both the death itself and the aftermath of it was not handled properly by any stretch of imagination.

I would say that the majority of Thane fans had accepted the possibility of Thane's death, despite all the alleged foreshadowing from the previous games and DLC. We had many other reasons than the obvious to pray that it wouldn't come to pass; in previous ME games, death has not been handled properly. Fiery explosions and heroic sacrifice are all well and good, but if no one in the universe remembers that a character had ever lived, why should I care if they died? In Mass Effect 2, during the Suicide Mission, Shepard shrugs and moves on no matter who died, even their LI. None of the other squad mates even mentioned that they had lost some of their number after the fact. This dismissive treatment was something we all feared more than Thane's death itself; he wouldn't just die, he also wouldn't be remembered. And that was exactly how it went.

Right after that tearjerking (/sarcasm) goodbye, does Shepard get to talk to anyone about losing Thane, romanced or otherwise? Does any other ME2 character mention him? No, but he gets his name on that wall!

If the aftermath of a character's death cannot be handled with as much care as the death was, then the character shouldn't die. Period. I used to criticize the after-death dialogue of Ashley or Kaidan in ME1 and, but I take it all back now, seeing what was done in ME3. Why was Thane the only one fighting Kai-Leng? Why was Shepard and the others just standing uselessly with their guns drawn? Why does the nurse at the hospital mention that Thane needs more blood and then states more blood won't do any good?

Why do those who romanced Thane get the exact same Lair of the Shadow Broker goodbye letter, if they already romanced Thane? It understandable, that it was made available for those who didn't play Lair of the Shadow Broker, who didn't or couldn't go on the internet to look it up, but what did those who had already read it get? Nothing! Nothing new, more of the same, and bitterly inadequate, given Thane fans are the only ones who are forced to see their LI die in game, on camera, with no way to avert it.


To End,

Thane's treatment, along with all the other ME2 LI's in ME3, was simply unacceptable. In no way, shape or fashion, was there a satisfying conclusion to Thane's romance. Like Jacob, Miranda and Jack's, there was simply not enough interaction between them and Shepard. They couldn't be on the squad? Fine. But what about video messages, or emails? Would a series of emails, non-rendered, text on a page from the absent LI have been too much to ask for to fill the gaps?

All this, in addition to the dismal, and unvaried endings and lack of any meaningful epilogue that illustrated the outcome of three games work, Mass Effect 3 has left me thoroughly disgusted and disappointed with the game itself and the series as a whole, in a way I haven't been since Dragon Age 2.

Bring back Thane. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, (Leliana, Shepard) that a character has been brought back from certain death. There is no salvaging what was given to us, it cannot remain in this form.

100% agree with you. I don't accept Thane's death. When it happened  I felt a great cold  in my real heart.
Thought when I see the end of the game he probably have been  spared to see his siha being raped by some  illuminated writer...Not sure   how to  explain the feeling of "lacking" there is... You are  madly in love,  hopelessly,  with  someone  jailed.You fear you will pass out  without ever  see her. You tried to  send messages who have  been  blocked and   yet when you see this person you  say: oh hello Mrs. Shepard how are you doing ?
You  even  feel jealous  enough  about a certain moron  in hospital to  speak about  him asking   how   someone can  wait for her, asking if   you cheated on  him...You are ok with checking on  her  ex to be  generous(meaning it cost you  still). You agree to  find some  personal  place to   making up  lost time...But you still speak to her like you regret to see her. Wtf?
Thane being dead Shepard  have already decided to die cause not wanting live without him. it is  shoking to  decide the suicide  of  your hero that   could achieve everything even not to die.Why   give us all thess hopes?
Playing with people sentiments just to  make a point that you can? It is like  shooting people  from a  roof   just because you have a  riffle and you can...wtf.

[Cosmochyck]

Ok folks - try this thread out!

Take back the Love!  ME2 romances in ME3  (thanks to Hainkpe for the title and Visii for most of the content!!)

Just created it so we can discuss ALL inadequate loves and perhaps show BW that it isn't acceptable to treat ME2 LIs this way!

Modifié par Cosmochyck, 15 mars 2012 - 07:30 .