Here's my post for the Feedback Thread.
Everyone has gotten into the habit of saying that ME3 was flawless up until the last ten minutes.
That is not true, at least when it comes to the Mass Effect 2 romance-able characters. This is not to say that the romances are more important than the rest of the story, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone is saying that it is really a unique and fascinating aspect of the game. It helps make the player feel as though Shepard is really citizen of the universe through interactions and relationships with the other characters in the game. This type of 'relationship' with the other characters is something that I literally can't get in any other game or series outside of Bioware's.
In particular, I wanted to speak about Thane, though ALL the ME2 romances suffered from a distinct lack of content. Their non-squadmate status would not have been half as upsetting if there had been plenty of interaction (which didn't have to be in person) to make up for it. But most simply disappeared from the narrative almost entirely. Seeing as the ME2 characters lacked content in general, lacking a decent amount of romantic dialogue on top of that is what people are upset about and what we all wish was rectified.
I would point to these threads in particular which have far too many amazing posts to go into detail here, but detail more specific desires regarding the other ME2 characters:
Take Back the Love! Better ME2 Romances in ME3:
http://social.biowar.../index/10006936Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9749360Protesting the Poor Treatment of Jacob Taylor's romance:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9729648Lack of Love for FemShep, No More Equality for Bioware's female players:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9839951Zero Male Romance Interestes for Femshep:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9766428Wow Femshep really got looked over in this game:
http://social.biowar...5/index/9829443
What was Upsetting: It's Mr.Thane Krios, not Mr.Kepr Al Syndrome.
- Thane was a fascinating character with a well-thought-out and developed past and personality. And while the Kepral's Syndrome perhaps adds to the urgency of his character, most of his fans have never defined himself by it. He was a Drell, a child taking part in the Compact, an assassin for the Hanar Illuminated Primacy, a lover of reading, a husband, a father, a reader of philosophy, a widower, and an absentee-by-necessity father, all before he was a man dying of Keprals.
At the end of the romance in ME 2, it was satisfying to see Thane stop defining himself by it. That was his character arch: he no longer believed or could accept that he was the equivalent of a dead man walking because of the disease. He had something to live for; his son and Shepard. For the first time ever since he had met Irikah and lost her, he wanted to live. A mental victory over the Syndrome at the very least.
When found on the Citadel in ME3, his being was entirely defined by his severely advanced Kepral's Syndrome. The majority of his only conversation with Shepard, romanced or otherwise, was about the disease. He didn't not die because of Kai Leng (had he gotten that wound without Kepral's he would have been fine after surgery, as the doctor noted) but because of Kepral's Syndrome. Even if Shepard didn't find him at Huerta hospital, and consequently didn't get involved with assassination attempt? He still died of Keprals. He didn't want to die in a hospital bed, as said in his Lair of the Shadow Broker Letter, and yet, that is where and how he died.
When people say, "The whole point of his character was that he was dying," well those people are patently wrong. And having written him that way in ME3 was worse.
What kind of message is, "dying people are what disease they have?" My mother is dying of pancreatic cancer. Is she only the disease? Did she cease to be a person once she was diagnosed with it? Has she lost all facets of her personality because she is now a dying woman? Of course not. Why should it be any different with Thane? I only bring this up because I am, of course, not the only one who is watching a loved one suffer from a terrible, debilitating illness. For those of us who are or have, there was a strong connection with Shepard. That made Thane's death all the more terrible to watch. We did not need the message that, "sometimes, things are out of your control" or "sometimes, people close to you die." Many of us are living that reality, and certainly do not need a second dose of it in the video games we play for recreation. It could have and should have been handled with more care, more respect.
What Was Particularly Depressing: Thane's Death Broke Suspension of Disbelief - I spoke with someone who had no reason to lie, and they said that there was never any path planned for saving Thane, that his death would be so moving, so powerful, so emotional as to be worth the loss of his character, that offering a way out would cheapen it.
Does the option to save Jack at Grissom Academy negate the effect of her gruesome transformation and manipulation at the hands of Cerberus? Does the option to tip off Miranda about Kai-Leng undercut the scene where she dies in Shepard's arms? Does the sacrifice/Warden death ending of Dragon Age: Origins cancel out the effect of the coronation ceremony? No. It's just an option! In a a game that is purportedly about options! In a game such as this, it is indeed possible to please everyone, just offer more than one option! Why didn't people who wanted to save Thane have that option?
Directly after being recruited in ME2, during the first conversation on the Normandy, Thane mentioned that the Hanar were working on a cure; he just didn't expect that he would live long enough to benefit from it. In Lair of the Shadow Broker, Thane's dossier showed that he was an eligible transplant candidate: it was possible for Thane to receive a transplant that would extend his life. There would not need to be a miracle cure because there was already one in the works by the Hanar. In addition, the CDN mentioned a new medigel for the lungs that would revolutionize internal medicine; I hope I need not explain how this could immediately benefit Thane. This felt like a particular nod to Thane fans, because an article talking about medigel for the lungs would only be of interest to Thane fans and no other portions of the fan base.
Unlike the game endings, there was setup here. The pieces were all in place. It wouldn't be a deus ex machina, people could look back at the game and see the trail that lead from there to a cured, or at least, surviving Thane. An expedient cure wasn't even necessary, if the disease was just stabilized, it would have been enough for us to hope that he would live long enough to receive the Hanar cure.
And yet, all that foreshadowing was dismissed. What was given to us in ME3 was a slap in the face. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information to support their claim, but hope born of game-provided evidence. If Thane was always slated to die, why give fans any hope at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure? Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3" banner, giving more hope to fans?
His unavoidable death was all the more bitter because we believed, in a universe were cancer had been beaten; in a universe where death, however costly had been surmounted; in a universe where the Genophage, a product of years and many individuals' labor could be reversed by one, (despite supposedly being years away from a cure in ME2) that Thane's life could have been extended, and that his death could have been avoided.
What was an Insult: The Aftermath- Both Thane's death itself and the aftermath was done so poorly (from a romanced Shepard's perspective) that it should not have happened at all. It was not beautiful, it was not touching. Shepard showed no emotion, and wasn't given any option to show any. Because the "romance" that came before it was so threadbare and uninspired, it fails on the very fronts it needed to succeed at to be considered successful and satisfying to those who had no way to avoid losing a favorite character/LI.
The majority of Thane fans had accepted the possibility of Thane's death, despite all the alleged foreshadowing from the previous games and DLC. We had many other reasons than the obvious to pray that it wouldn't come to pass; in previous ME games, character/squadmate death wasn't exactly given the gravitas it deserved. In Mass Effect 2, during the Suicide Mission, Shepard shrugs and moves on no matter who died, even their LI. Afterwards, none of the other squadmates even mentioned that they had lost some of their number. This dismissive treatment was something we all feared more than Thane's death itself; he wouldn't just die, he also wouldn't be remembered. And that was exactly how it went.
Right after that tearjerking (/sarcasm) goodbye, does Shepard get to talk to anyone about losing Thane, romanced or otherwise? Does any other ME2 character mention him? Did any other character even ask how Shepard was coping? No, but he gets his name on that wall!
This was as the more painful to see, especially because in nearly every other instance, when another ME2 character died, everyone on the ship had something to say about it. If the Virmire Survivor died on the Citadel, Garrus had something to say. If Samara died at the monastery, Joker had a comment. Tali remembered Miranda, could remember Legion. It was proved through these characters' deaths, that their loss could resonate. Why didn't it happen with Thane? I inferred from a conversation with someone in the know, that there were resource and time issues that contributed to this.
If the aftermath of a character's death cannot be handled with as much care as the death was, then the character shouldn't die. Period. Why was Thane the only one fighting Kai-Leng? Why was Shepard and the others just standing uselessly with their guns drawn? Why does the nurse at the hospital mention that Thane needs more blood and then states more blood won't do any good?
Why do those who romanced Thane get the exact same Lair of the Shadow Broker goodbye letter, if they already romanced Thane? It was understandable, that it was made available for those who didn't play Lair of the Shadow Broker, who didn't/couldn't go on the internet to look it up, but what did those who had already read it get? Nothing! Nothing new and bitterly inadequate, given Thane fans are the only ones who are forced to see their LI die in game, on camera, with no way to avert it.
If any LI should have given Shepard a trinket, it should have been Thane. A picture of them on their desert vacation, taken when they were together before Shepard turned herself in, or a holo (like the one Thane had made of Mouse). Something. Anything to remember him by. Anything other than absence.
What Changes Should Be Made- An option to save Thane should be made available. I've now seen how he died: he went unmourned by all, Shepard included. Nothing will take those memories away. While the lack of death/romance recognition/lack of romance dialogue/romance scene issues should be corrected, I want to see him live. We deserve to be able to save Thane and if we choose not to we also deserve his death to be handled better, but the latter is no use to many Thane fans without the option of the former.
- If the above won't be done, have a Shepard that romanced Thane show more emotion during the death scene. Have the option for her to tell him she loves him, and have him do the same. Miranda got a better, more satisfying death scene, and it wasn't mandatory. For the required death of an ME2 LI, Thane should have been given at least that much care.
- Thane was one of the few ME2 characters who didn't get a mission in the game. Please, please, please make it happen. Make a Kahje mission where, if completed, there can be assets for the war and a cure for Thane. Those who didn't romance him or don't want him (and the Drell to be cured) could still get the resources through Kasumi's mission. Thane is a natural connection to the Hanar. He worked for them. He had the procedure done so he could see their bioluminescence. His race is inextricably tied to theirs. The Hanar worship the Protheans, had prevented the "defilement" of some Prothean ruins in ME1; maybe there is a Prothean object that could be of use in building the crucible or just providing important information, that Shepard+CO could help retrieve.
- for all the ME2 characters, more interaction, more dialogue. Couldn't they have sent emails? Or had video-chat conversations? It would have been amazing if, after every major mission or two, we could have a conversation with Shepard's LI, keep them up to date on what's happening with the war, get their reaction on recent developments, give and receive advice. It would help both ways; both Shepard LI would hear how the war was going in other places, how different groups are fairing.
- Jacob's portrayal and treatment in ME3 was abysmal. The best line out of Jacob's ME3 romance was when Shepard said, "If we both die here today, I want to know that we've said all there was to say." … Best because it was so patently terrible. Nothing was accomplished with that conversation. Jacob acted like he had a frontal lobotomy, Shepard acted like a kiss would fix everything (and in the same voice no one liked from Jacob's romance scenes) and it just make no bloody sense that "forever" equated to six months, after Jacob admitted that he loved Shepard in ME2 and that the two of them were together far longer than they were apart. One issue (disregarding the fact that this scenario happened at all) is that it had no build up, no tension. There was no option for Shepard to fix it, just like there was no way to save Thane, no way for way for Shepard to even prevent it from happening, no way to adequately express her anger or hurt. It's just OVER. If the point was to tell a, "well, not everything works out" story, then the relationship breakdown should have been shown throughout that mission, instead of just jumping to the IT'S OVER phase. It also has unfortunate implications given Jacob's race and his.. popularity status on the forums.
Thank you.
Modifié par Visii, 17 mars 2012 - 07:10 .
I'm odd but not certifiable.
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And it's an interesting endeavour, I think!
I don't think any DLC they could put out will make me happy unless it includes more Thane.
