7876 réponses à ce sujet

[braxy29]

wildannie wrote...

coldwetnose has been cheering us up and keeping us entertained with Perpetually Drunk Shepard in the original Thane thread social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7627292/303#10300118 being one example

bwhahahaha!  that's awesome, thanks to coldwetnose and thanks to wildannie for the link.  i needed that.  

[lyssalu]

bazzag wrote...

For my part, i have nothing against Thanes death. I thought it was written well, and it was nice that he died a hero, as opposed to popping his clogs through illness, which i thought would most likely be the case.

However, i do understand that those who romanced him want more of a romance with him, or maybe exclusive choices or events, like with talis face. And so i agree with you, because
a) it would be nice 4 the character
all the ME2 romances (with exception of tali and garrus) appear to be quite basic
c) it would be nice for femsheps as their romances are far inferior through numbers and depth than man sheps.

this

[wildannie]

@braxy29 no problem, glad I could help

@bazzag thank you for understanding out point of view, I really appreciate it as so many who didn't romance him don't think of us at all

[utaker1988]

bazzag wrote...

For my part, i have nothing against Thanes death. I thought it was written well, and it was nice that he died a hero, as opposed to popping his clogs through illness, which i thought would most likely be the case.

However, i do understand that those who romanced him want more of a romance with him, or maybe exclusive choices or events, like with talis face. And so i agree with you, because
a) it would be nice 4 the character
all the ME2 romances (with exception of tali and garrus) appear to be quite basic
c) it would be nice for femsheps as their romances are far inferior through numbers and depth than man sheps.

Thanks and yes, I agree.  

[stwu]

braxy29 wrote...

hugs here as well.  i can't even tell most people why i am so incredibly bummed right now, because they won't get it, even a lot of mass effect fans don't get it, which is depressing.  i am amazed that i had such an attachment to a fictional character, but the fact is that, between me 2 and my current play through on me3, i have put in 140 hours, plus at least that many on the fic i started, probably double when i think of the time i spent researching and working it out in my head.  i'm so disgusted about it all, i don't think i will finish the fic.

i really feel like i lost a friend, and i feel like an ass for having been so involved in the fandom.  i feel fairly well mocked by bioware's handling of this (what?  they FORGOT that thane was an LI?), and i'm disappointed that i've lost the motivation to write about it.  every time i start to think about how i will handle it in my fic, i feel foolish all over again for having gotten so into it and then for being so disappointed about it.

i'm trying to force myself to finish the game (what for?  the ending sucks), but when i hit a rough spot last night (i'm better suited to fighting cerberus than husks and rachni), i had to ask myself why it was worth the bother.

you know, the thane romance was such a disappointment, but the ending on top of it is so depressing.  as someone else around here said, i don't invest 100 hours of my life into something for a depressing ending, i want to walk away feeling like a hero.  i have heard some people compare the game to a movie or a book; who is this bummed about a sad movie ending?  the fact remains that i did not spend only 2 hours on a movie and feel moved to tears at the end.  i have invested a LOT of time in this, and i almost think that bioware lost sight of a) what made us love mass effect and what gaming is supposed to be about.

at times like this, i just have to remind myself that i read a quote from one of the bioware peeps about how me3 concluded the series theme of "sacrifice."  i was mistaken when i played me2 and thought it was more about having hope against impossible odds.

I'm moved by your heartfelt expression. You have described I think what we have all felt. I think you should send this message to one of the writers. Let them know how much Thane and ME has meant to you.

Modifié par stwu, 21 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[mnomaha]

@Braxy29...*hugs* Very well said.

[LucyMaire]

@braxy Yeah send it to a writer!! It basically encompasses all of our complaints. It might get recognized!

[Luminova]

First post ever. But I felt very strongly about the disservice done to Femsheps in general and especially with the Thane romance in ME3 that I had to post in support of this thread.
I was so dismayed after Thane's death and the callous disregard for the established romance arc in ME2 that I could not finish the game on my canon FemShep character. It is too heartbreaking and I no longer feel connected due to the lack of emotion shown for her true love dying.
It seems odd since Shepherd shows more emotion in ME3 than in either of the other installations, yet in this story arc, she is so calmly accepting of Thane’s death, it threw me out of sync with the character.
This thread has done a wonderful job explaining the grievances. In order to reiterate the point (because I think it is necessary for us to do this), I will explain my main issues with this story line:

1. I am not necessarily complaining about how Thane died. For a friendship path, I think that the scenes are well done and are touching. I would still complain that the lack of any acknowledgement by other party members is a bit jarring even in this instance. However, this is mainly a complaint on how the ROMANCE is handled.

a. First, Thane’s complete 180 from where we left him last in ME2 is upsetting. I left him in my cabin happily contemplating a future that he now has a lot of reasons to fight for (namely my awesome Femshep and his son). The complete acceptance of his fate in ME3 runs counter to our ending romance scene in ME2. Even if he has changed his view..why? We are given no explanation.

b. The kissing scene is weird. All other romances have a couple conversations and at least actual private time. (C’mon you even can bang Kelly in a back alley…seriously). We get 1 conversation…ONE. And it varies very little from the friendship conversation. We then get some extremely public “private” time in front of a window in a hospital waiting room…..

c. I felt Bioware was pushing me towards Kaiden. From the conversation starter with Thane (um, actually I was coming to see you??) to the subtle autopilot hints that Kaiden is a super awesome solider now and I should like him. I HATED Sheps response to Thane's question on whether Shepherd "has grown apart" from Kaiden. I don't know what that "look" was suppose to mean, but Rubbernecked Chagrin was not what I was screaming in my head. More like..."We broke up and I haven't thought about him since we've been together".

d. Nobody ever mentions that I am with Thane, even though Liara mentions him in the Shadow Broker DLC, this seems to have been forgotten by all my friends. Disappointing.

e. Bioware’s hints that a cure could be in the works or a possibility at least for LIs were cruel. Period. Even though this is my first post, I have been an avid reader of the “Cure Thane” thread since ME2 and was well aware of all of these hints prior to entering the game.

f. I realize that the “girl gamer” population is smaller and of course therefore less important but I believe Bioware should be a little bit more subtle in their neglect. Straight Males characters have Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali. All of which have the option of survival. Straight Female characters have Kaiden (if we didn’t blow him up on Virmire..which was tempting) and Garrus. Period. Thane does not count as a romance in ME3, and neither does Jacob. In a game that is known for offering choices and at least attempting to be fair to all sexes and orientations, this is pretty low.

I would love to see a DLC that offers more interaction with the ME2 LIs. However, this is likely a pipe dream. At a minimum I would be happy if instead of making out in front of a room of people Thane is invited back to the Normandy for a real romance interaction before his death. This of course should give the paramour achievement.
And if Liara fans can call for their blue babies…then I want my green babies. If he has to die, and least let me give Kolyat a sibling. A girl can dream.

Modifié par Luminova, 21 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[coldwetn0se]

Luminova wrote...

First post ever. But I felt very strongly about the disservice done to Femsheps in general and especially with the Thane romance in ME3 that I had to post in support of this thread.
I was so dismayed after Thane's death and the callous disregard for the established romance arc in ME2 that I could not finish the game on my canon FemShep character. It is too heartbreaking and I no longer feel connected due to the lack of emotion shown for her true love dying.
It seems odd since Shepherd shows more emotion in ME3 than in either of the other installations, yet in this story arc, she is so calmly accepting of Thane’s death, it threw me out of sync with the character.
This thread has done a wonderful job explaining the grievances. In order to reiterate the point (because I think it is necessary for us to do this), I will explain my main issues with this story line:

1. I am not necessarily complaining about how Thane died. For a friendship path, I think that the scenes are well done and are touching. I would still complain that the lack of any acknowledgement by other party members is a bit jarring even in this instance. However, this is mainly a complaint on how the ROMANCE is handled.
a. First, Thane’s complete 180 from where we left him last in ME2 is upsetting. I left him in my cabin happily contemplating a future that he now has a lot of reasons to fight for (namely my awesome Femshep and his son). The complete acceptance of his fate in ME3 runs counter to our ending romance scene in ME2. Even if he has changed his view..why? We are given no explanation.
b. The kissing scene is weird. All other romances have a couple conversations and at least actual private time. (C’mon you even can bang Kelly in a back alley…seriously). We get 1 conversation…ONE. And it varies very little from the friendship conversation. We then get some extremely public “private” time in front of a window in a hospital waiting room…..
c. I felt Bioware was pushing me towards Kaiden. From the conversation starter with Thane (um, actually I was coming to see you??) to the subtle autopilot hints that Kaiden and a super awesome solider now and I should like him. I HATED Sheps response to Thane's question on whether Shepherd "has grown apart" from Kaiden. I don't know what that "look" was suppose to mean, but Rubbernecked Chagrin was not what I was screaming in my head. More like..."We broke up and I haven't thought about him since we've been together".
d. Nobody ever mentions that I am with Thane, even though Liara mentions him in the Shadow Broker DLC, this seems to have been forgotten by all my friends. Disappointing.
e. Bioware’s hints that a cure could be in the works or a possibility at least for LIs were cruel. Period. Even though this is my first post, I have been an avid reader of the “Cure Thane” thread since ME2 and was well aware of all of these hints prior to entering the game.
f. I realize that the “girl gamer” population is smaller and of course therefore less important but I believe Bioware should be a little bit more subtle in their neglect. Straight Males characters have Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali. All of which have the option of survival. Straight Female characters have Kaiden (if we didn’t blow him up on Virmire..which was tempting) and Garrus. Period. Thane does not count as a romance in ME3, and neither does Jacob. In a game that is known for offering choices and at least attempting to be fair to all sexes and orientations, this is pretty low.

I would love to see a DLC that offers more interaction with the ME2 LIs. However, this is likely a pipe dream. At a minimum I would be happy if instead of making out in front of a room of people Thane is invited back to the Normandy for a real romance interaction before his death. This of course should give the paramour achievement.
And if Liara fans can call for their blue babies…then I want my green babies. If he has to die, and least let me give Kolyat a sibling. A girl can dream.

Beautifully said!  Cake or beer.....both?

[braxy29]

thanks to all of you for the support on my comment.

i did try to comment on the mordin writer's live journal after i followed a link from deviant art. i saw comments from someone else about thane and added my thoughts there, very politely i might add, and my comment was promptly deleted and i was blocked.

only later did i see his comment that he did not appreciate discussion about thane on his LJ. i felt like a huge dork-bomb, and i couldn't even apologize. anyway, i feel somewhat discouraged from contacting any other writers. if someone could direct me, i would be happy to share my thoughts with another writer, but i suspect others have made more succinct arguments than i have. i just wanted to share how sad the whole thing made me with others who might understand.

how do i explain from coworkers why i was on the verge of crying when i got back from the bank today? i have pretty much kept it to myself before tonight and a couple convos with fanfic writers.

[disc0nnect7]

Luminova wrote...

First post ever. But I felt very strongly about the disservice done to Femsheps in general and especially with the Thane romance in ME3 that I had to post in support of this thread.
I was so dismayed after Thane's death and the callous disregard for the established romance arc in ME2 that I could not finish the game on my canon FemShep character. It is too heartbreaking and I no longer feel connected due to the lack of emotion shown for her true love dying.
It seems odd since Shepherd shows more emotion in ME3 than in either of the other installations, yet in this story arc, she is so calmly accepting of Thane’s death, it threw me out of sync with the character.
This thread has done a wonderful job explaining the grievances. In order to reiterate the point (because I think it is necessary for us to do this), I will explain my main issues with this story line:

1. I am not necessarily complaining about how Thane died. For a friendship path, I think that the scenes are well done and are touching. I would still complain that the lack of any acknowledgement by other party members is a bit jarring even in this instance. However, this is mainly a complaint on how the ROMANCE is handled.
a. First, Thane’s complete 180 from where we left him last in ME2 is upsetting. I left him in my cabin happily contemplating a future that he now has a lot of reasons to fight for (namely my awesome Femshep and his son). The complete acceptance of his fate in ME3 runs counter to our ending romance scene in ME2. Even if he has changed his view..why? We are given no explanation.
b. The kissing scene is weird. All other romances have a couple conversations and at least actual private time. (C’mon you even can bang Kelly in a back alley…seriously). We get 1 conversation…ONE. And it varies very little from the friendship conversation. We then get some extremely public “private” time in front of a window in a hospital waiting room…..
c. I felt Bioware was pushing me towards Kaiden. From the conversation starter with Thane (um, actually I was coming to see you??) to the subtle autopilot hints that Kaiden and a super awesome solider now and I should like him. I HATED Sheps response to Thane's question on whether Shepherd "has grown apart" from Kaiden. I don't know what that "look" was suppose to mean, but Rubbernecked Chagrin was not what I was screaming in my head. More like..."We broke up and I haven't thought about him since we've been together".
d. Nobody ever mentions that I am with Thane, even though Liara mentions him in the Shadow Broker DLC, this seems to have been forgotten by all my friends. Disappointing.
e. Bioware’s hints that a cure could be in the works or a possibility at least for LIs were cruel. Period. Even though this is my first post, I have been an avid reader of the “Cure Thane” thread since ME2 and was well aware of all of these hints prior to entering the game.
f. I realize that the “girl gamer” population is smaller and of course therefore less important but I believe Bioware should be a little bit more subtle in their neglect. Straight Males characters have Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali. All of which have the option of survival. Straight Female characters have Kaiden (if we didn’t blow him up on Virmire..which was tempting) and Garrus. Period. Thane does not count as a romance in ME3, and neither does Jacob. In a game that is known for offering choices and at least attempting to be fair to all sexes and orientations, this is pretty low.

I would love to see a DLC that offers more interaction with the ME2 LIs. However, this is likely a pipe dream. At a minimum I would be happy if instead of making out in front of a room of people Thane is invited back to the Normandy for a real romance interaction before his death. This of course should give the paramour achievement.
And if Liara fans can call for their blue babies…then I want my green babies. If he has to die, and least let me give Kolyat a sibling. A girl can dream.

You couldn't have picked a better first post! I agree 100%. It's ironic how Femshep now conveys more emotion through her voice/facial expressions/actions now than ever, yet she has her poker face on during Thane's death. You'd think a Shep that romanced Thane (the incredible, deep romance it is) would show more sadness at his passing. Actually, you'd think most people would show more emotion at the moment of someone's death. I think the scene is decent from a friendship point of view, but not from romantic angle. Adding insult to injury no one mentions Thane's death-after he dies Garrus comments on the VS at the memorial wall, not Thane. Tali is mentioned if she dies, as well as Miranda and Mordin.

About being pushed into Kaiden's arms-I had to go back and finish my PT where I had Shep remain single until Thane came along,  I really didn't want any drama getting in the way of what I thought would be a relationship with Thane. Before playign ME3 I actually thought Thane would be an official LI you could pursue a relationship with. It's all about Kaiden though-going to visit him specifically in the hospital, acting all guilty like what happened with Thane was a mistake. Shep should have had an option to tell Kaiden she moved on-not that she "cheated". She should also have the option to tell Thane what happened with Kaiden has been put in the past and she moved on. I suppose we didn't get that option because Thane dies no matter what. So much for supporting that cure, eh Bioware?

The female fanbase has been left out to dry it would seem, many corners have been cut when it comes to our options. I thought they were actually starting to notice FemShep's popularity, they gave her a trailer and a new look but then they took anyway half of her romance options, dangled Vega before her eyes and threw in Traynor to appease anyone wishing for female s/s only romance yet gave her a trashy scene that looks more appealing to straight male fans than it would to any female fan. BW said themselves Thane was designed specifically as an appealing female LI, so why take him away from us without giving us a satisfying romance? Don't they care about their female fans as well? I had high hopes for ME3, it only went downhill after Thane's death.

[mnomaha]

My sister is a genius and didn't even know it.

""The strongest principle of growth lies in human choice." George Eliot" Huh, imagine that.

[coldwetn0se]

mnomaha wrote...

My sister is a genius and didn't even know it.

""The strongest principle of growth lies in human choice." George Eliot" Huh, imagine that.

Brilliant!  We should add that to the Fanbook somewhere.

[coldwetn0se]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I'm convinced that I'm a lone warrior here. So I will keep fighting this thing on my own, but not in this thread. Good luck to everyone one.

Did we miss something?  Your voice has been great here, and in the other Thane threads.  Hope you change your mind and stay.

[RShara]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I'm convinced that I'm a lone warrior here. So I will keep fighting this thing on my own, but not in this thread. Good luck to everyone one.

?  There are lots of people here who agree with you?

[braxy29]

Luminova wrote...

First post ever.

and it's a good one...

 It seems odd since Shepherd shows more emotion in ME3 than in either of the other installations, yet in this story arc, she is so calmly accepting of Thane’s death, it threw me out of sync with the character.

this is exactly how i felt.  the immersion in the story was gone at that point for me.  i'm thankful that i still like the combat, but i'm not really interested in the story line at this point. 

 c. I felt Bioware was pushing me towards Kaiden. From the conversation starter with Thane (um, actually I was coming to see you??) to the subtle autopilot hints that Kaiden is a super awesome solider now and I should like him. I HATED Sheps response to Thane's question on whether Shepherd "has grown apart" from Kaiden. I don't know what that "look" was suppose to mean, but Rubbernecked Chagrin was not what I was screaming in my head. More like..."We broke up and I haven't thought about him since we've been together".

i didn't play me1, and i am so glad that i killed off kaiden in the interactive comic.  if this is what happens with a living kaiden, that would have been even weirder, made me feel even more disconnected from the story.  at least with ash, i could think, "wow, thane's a gentleman to the end, he wants to look out for her for me."

 f. I realize that the “girl gamer” population is smaller and of course therefore less important but I believe Bioware should be a little bit more subtle in their neglect. 

you know, that is part of what frustrates me so about all this.  why don't girl gamers get more respect?  why can't we have our tastes catered to as well?  honestly, the people who just want shooting and explosions (not that i have anything against that) have store shelves full of COD type stuff they can play.  when i read some of the comments about romance on the forums, i get the impression that we should feel sorry or guilty for asking for this.  what, my $70 isn't as good as someone else's because i'm a woman?

anyway, great post, thank you!

Modifié par braxy29, 21 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[mnomaha]

What the hell did I miss?

@Squeee Pm me or something.

[lyssalu]

Luminova wrote...

First post ever. But I felt very strongly about the disservice done to Femsheps in general and especially with the Thane romance in ME3 that I had to post in support of this thread.
I was so dismayed after Thane's death and the callous disregard for the established romance arc in ME2 that I could not finish the game on my canon FemShep character. It is too heartbreaking and I no longer feel connected due to the lack of emotion shown for her true love dying.
It seems odd since Shepherd shows more emotion in ME3 than in either of the other installations, yet in this story arc, she is so calmly accepting of Thane’s death, it threw me out of sync with the character.
This thread has done a wonderful job explaining the grievances. In order to reiterate the point (because I think it is necessary for us to do this), I will explain my main issues with this story line:

1. I am not necessarily complaining about how Thane died. For a friendship path, I think that the scenes are well done and are touching. I would still complain that the lack of any acknowledgement by other party members is a bit jarring even in this instance. However, this is mainly a complaint on how the ROMANCE is handled.

a. First, Thane’s complete 180 from where we left him last in ME2 is upsetting. I left him in my cabin happily contemplating a future that he now has a lot of reasons to fight for (namely my awesome Femshep and his son). The complete acceptance of his fate in ME3 runs counter to our ending romance scene in ME2. Even if he has changed his view..why? We are given no explanation.

b. The kissing scene is weird. All other romances have a couple conversations and at least actual private time. (C’mon you even can bang Kelly in a back alley…seriously). We get 1 conversation…ONE. And it varies very little from the friendship conversation. We then get some extremely public “private” time in front of a window in a hospital waiting room…..

c. I felt Bioware was pushing me towards Kaiden. From the conversation starter with Thane (um, actually I was coming to see you??) to the subtle autopilot hints that Kaiden is a super awesome solider now and I should like him. I HATED Sheps response to Thane's question on whether Shepherd "has grown apart" from Kaiden. I don't know what that "look" was suppose to mean, but Rubbernecked Chagrin was not what I was screaming in my head. More like..."We broke up and I haven't thought about him since we've been together".

d. Nobody ever mentions that I am with Thane, even though Liara mentions him in the Shadow Broker DLC, this seems to have been forgotten by all my friends. Disappointing.

e. Bioware’s hints that a cure could be in the works or a possibility at least for LIs were cruel. Period. Even though this is my first post, I have been an avid reader of the “Cure Thane” thread since ME2 and was well aware of all of these hints prior to entering the game.

f. I realize that the “girl gamer” population is smaller and of course therefore less important but I believe Bioware should be a little bit more subtle in their neglect. Straight Males characters have Liara, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali. All of which have the option of survival. Straight Female characters have Kaiden (if we didn’t blow him up on Virmire..which was tempting) and Garrus. Period. Thane does not count as a romance in ME3, and neither does Jacob. In a game that is known for offering choices and at least attempting to be fair to all sexes and orientations, this is pretty low.

really well said!

[JECW]

What happened.
Did I miss something?

[stysiaq]

@coldwetn0se
Correction: Thats no Wrex in the avatar or signature, just random Krogan
Clarification: Wrex had red eyes. Still, Krogan powah.

Also, I appreciate all the effort put into Kaidan in ME3, because he is far from being his regular, dull self from ME1, and if ME2 romance was really just a fling for you and you want to get back to Kaidan - then the things wor out perfectly.

The thing is in my game I wanted Shepard to really move on and not be apologetic to Kaidan.

The more I think about it, the more upset I get. Bioware really blew this one. The fact is, the moment after Thanes death Shepard forgets about him as well.

When the supposed "romance scene" was supposed to happen, my Shepard woke up in her underwear alone, with her thoughts as the only companion. It was a perfect moment to show some reminder of Thane (photograph, anything) and show some emotion (tears/whatever). That kind of treatment would do miracles to character development - showing that Shep keeps the fragile side of herself private, not ever having enough time just to sit back and think about all the sacrifices she's made - the fight for the sake of all life in the galaxy forces her to keep up the 'strong commander' facade by the day, and constantly convincing herself that the stakes are bigger than ever will be - and with stakes that high her life, her friends, her family and even her love are just expendable.

Pursuing romance with an alien dying from an 'uncurable' disease helped me feel more... human and closer to the character I was playing. Thane's romance is about discovering (rather than remembering) that there's still a lot of hope and happiness to find, even if everything seem lost, even when all you can percieve is loneliness and despair.

Thane is a lost soul, who chose a way of life which led to a lot of suffering and guilt. He sacrificed his ideals (that his body is just a tool) to go after his wifes murderers. He knows, what it is like to go after a 'bigger picture' even if it means loosing your conscience (Thanes fatherhood) in the process.

This is exactly what made me see, that him and Shepard are alike. Didn't Shepards life lead to constant sacrifices too? Hasn't she always went after 'the big picture' often forced to forget that individual losses are something sad, but, unfortunately, acceptable? Didn't she oppose her ideal/duties either for the Alliance or the Council when making final ME1 decision, or by working with Cerberus? Isn't Shepard a bit of 'lost soul' too? (For me - she is)

And finally - can't be Thane's romance seen as a metaphore to the whole ME plot?

Isn't ME about fighting against impossible odds?
About refusing the 'inevitable'?
Prolonging life as long as it is possible?
About HOPE that this life can be saved?
That life, even if scarred and with many sins on its behalf is still a life worth saving and fighting for till the very last breath?


I think I'm outta cheese.

[mnomaha]

@sytsiaq...very nice post. Thank you!

[blueshepard]

@stysiaq: wow that's great said! Thanks so much for these words!

[mythlover20]

Wow, stysaq. Just wow. Your words put my paultry attempts to shame! VERY well said, my dear!

Especially equating Thane's romance to the overall ME experience. That is very insightful!

I do hope the writers at least meditate on what you have discussed.

They probably won't though.

Modifié par mythlover20, 21 mars 2012 - 09:33 .