7876 réponses à ce sujet

[Daicotje]

Hainkpe wrote...

The first time through I was pretty shocked numb. I just played. Did all the paragon choices. Just pick the top, get through. Now, I am looking at it again and again, I feel numb. Its like, something is missing from this game. Like the embodiment that was so visceral in ME and ME2 is gone. The spirit, the soul, is lacking. This game was not made with love this game was made to make money. I get that, now. Get through a second time. This time, my Shepard dies. What's there left for her? Thane's dead so is the entire galaxy. Fine with me.

I agree so much. My first playthrough I spent the whole game looking for something. I didn't even know myself what I was looking for. Something was just wrong, something was missing...
I also never really got very involved in the game, even though the reapers were at our doorstep...

[coldwetn0se]

@disc0nnect7

I think Mass Effect is all about the action, the combat, and the flashy (albeit few) cutscenes. We've got more weapons and the ability to mod them, and more options when it comes to custimizing armor-is that what BW thought was more of the "RPG element" people said they were missing? Along with the addition of MP,BW is focusing less on RPG and more on action. Kill this, destroy this, blow up this-I just want more time to see the story unfold. To see Shepard deal with the immense responsibilty thrust upon her/him. And of course, to spend more time with the drell she loves.

This....so this.  Again, more like a shooter, with movie elements.  Because we are focused on Thane, it is those scenes that we often refer to (jarring dialogue, inconsistant characterization, lack of dialogue choice, graphical issues/glitches), but this really can be seen throughout much of the game.  I never really understood the beginning, since I know for a fact that my Shepard would not have just handed herself and ship over to the Alliance.  But the only real reaction about being detained for six months is, ".....is that why they took away my ship?" *bonk*

Ok, let's say I can get past the beginning....they needed a way to start us all out on the same foot, I get that.  But lets move on.  Dialogue between Shep and the VS......ugh.  Again, not enough choice in how to react to them.  Shepard sounds like a robot most of the time.  Even convo's with Liara seemed lacking.  In the case of Liara, it wasn't so much what she said, but what they didn't talk about.  Now, since I didn't finish the game, I will refrain from adding much more in regards to dialogue, but it does sound like this theme continued throughout the whole game. 

Lack of choice in action and dialogue minimizes the ability to role play.  Just as Disc0nnect7 says, they seemed to have believed they were adding in more RP elements simply by allowing you to customize some of your equipment.  Nice gameplay feature; doesn't improve on Role Playing in my opinion.

[Emeraldfern]

Yeah I just read dr. Ray Muzyka's statement too, and I'm a bit torn to be honest.

Part of me thinks that yes, they'll address the endings in some form, and another part of me thinks oh, classic PR talk. However at this point I want to be optimistic.
Hopefully it means something is being done about the endings. That in itself is a victory, even to us, who think that Thane's (or any of the ME2's) romances were treated poorly.
Because in the end it means that they are listening to the fans.
And  it aslo means that as long as we don't stop bringing the matter up to Bioware, there is hope.

/On another note I'm almost done with my painting!
Just a few touchups in the background, shading and details and I'm finished!

[mnomaha]

Lilunebrium wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I think they were given guidelines and a budget and told you can do this and this with these limited resources as well as include MP.

The MP function wasn't done by the same studio that was working on the SP campaign. No resources wasted there, unless people demand all BioWare studios should be working on the same project.

Resources include money spent implementing their stupid MP.

[UnbornLeviathan]

 Thane was intended to die from the get-go, I think. I'm a big fan of his, although never been interested in romantic involvement, but I think his death was badass, like an aged samurai.

[RShara]

Thane was never "destined" to die. The writers in ME2 said they weren't sure where they were going to take the character. 

In the leaked script, there were several options where Thane takes a bullet during the Coup, to stop Udina. In one of the options, he pulls off "A slick move" and stops Udina, and just looks "out of breath."

His non-romanced death was badass, but his romanced death (which shouldn't happen at all) was completely meh

Modifié par RShara, 21 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[mnomaha]

His death, while I wouldn't call it badass, isn't exactly what we are protesting. It was okay, if you never romanced him. It was complete **** if you did.

[JECW]

Why do people keep missing the main reason we are doing this.

[RShara]

Because it's easier. Same reason why people misunderstand the dislike of the endings.

[JECW]

RShara wrote...

Because it's easier. Same reason why people misunderstand the dislike of the endings.

Either that or they don't know how to read.
I also don't think any of them bothered to do his romance, or really talk to him.

[Bronagh]

One more who had Thane as a Li just posting for the first time just to say thank you for this thread. It's comforting to read that many others felt the same way i did about his treatment in ME3.

[alynnen]

I was so sure there was going to be a mission in Kahje with those hanar scientists.. to cure him.

[coldwetn0se]

Bronagh wrote...

One more who had Thane as a Li just posting for the first time just to say thank you for this thread. It's comforting to read that many others felt the same way i did about his treatment in ME3.

Welcome!  Tissues to the right.....booze to the left.

I was taking my dog on his afternoon constitutional (long-arse potty walk), and I continued to muse on the reactions some players have had on Thane's ME3 involvment.  I really have to wonder how many of them paid attention to the dialogue in ME2 even if you were only friending him, NOT romancing him. 

I always start a new RPG with two characters (if possible); one female and one male. When I played ME2, which is the first ME game I played (then I went back and bought ME1), it was just happenstance that I got ahead in the game with my m!Shep before my f!Shep.  So I saw all the dialogue (minus the romance dialogue) with Thane, first with a bro-Shep.  Even in that play through, I did not see Thane as "at peace" with dying after having successfully done his LM and exhausted all his dialogue on the Normandy.  Then, when I got my f!Shep farther in and started the romance part, I saw that he was NOT content with dying, and he actually says that. 

I feel like the writers need to study these two aspects carefully to understand why we are upset with the way he was handled in ME3.  I have been trying to muster up the strength to crank up ME2, and really study/write down (xbox-no screenies or vid) all the spoken dialogue for both a friend Shep and a romanced Shep, AND pay attention to how they animated both Thane's and Shepard's facial/body expressions.  It alway sticks out to me during the "love" scene.  My femSheps all have an ACTUAL empathetic expression on their faces.  The reason it is so noticeable is that I don't recall that facial animation on my Shep in any other scene (or it was too quick to take note of in other scenes).  And even the line, "Be alive with me tonight."  is more about the here and now, knowing that the SM, well, is supposed to be a potential Suicide Mission, and one or both could die.....sooner rather than later. 

Okay, now I'm starting to ramble and I am unsure where I was going to take this.  If I can manage to put ME2 into my console and study some of this, I'll expand further with this line of thought.

[mnomaha]

@Bronagh, welcome. Feel free to join us on facebook. The link is in my signature.

@alynned... I thought so too.

[Aeyl]

(dropping by between classes)

Honestly, after thinking about it (even more) I find it surprising that Bioware did not put more emphasis on Thane (I only have 2 Shepards, one with Garrus and one with Thane; I haven't played through ME 3 a second time to see Garrus' romance so I can't speak for him or any other LI)

As someone who knows very well the feeling of hopelessness and apathy you get in the face of what seems to be unavoidable death, and as someone who also overcame those feelings (in ME2, not even going to mention what they did to the character in ME 3), Thane could be even more of a treasure-trove of awesome dialogue with Shepard.

And you'd think that when all known civilization is on the verge of disaster and everyone could die any day, the relationship between Shepard and her/his LI would be that much more precious to them both, even if just as a way to find comfort.

So what I'm saying, I guess, is that more could have been done >_>

[Moira-chan]

i definetly support this. thane is my fav game chara of whole time!!! his treatment was so unfair in me3

[LucyMaire]

He's my favorite character of all time too, out of the plethora of video game characters I adore.
I hate when Bioware people deflect our complaints by saying "Well some passionate (they mean crazy) fans didn't like things about the game...but all these critics say it's amazing"
First of all, it's the fans that matter, not the critics.
Secondly, those critics obviously didn't romance Thane.

[Bronagh]

Thank you for the welcome *grabs tissues, booze and facebook and camps in a corner of the thread*

[JECW]

LucyMaire wrote...

He's my favorite character of all time too, out of the plethora of video game characters I adore.
I hate when Bioware people deflect our complaints by saying "Well some passionate (they mean crazy) fans didn't like things about the game...but all these critics say it's amazing"
First of all, it's the fans that matter, not the critics.
Secondly, those critics obviously didn't romance Thane.

They should be more concerned about the fans than critics.
I doubt those critics did any of the romances. They just played the game. I doubt they have any attachment to the characters, and that includes Shepard.
We paid for that game. I doubt the critics did.
We are keeping them in business not the critics. Critics aren't even the reason I bought ME1,2 or 3.

Modifié par JECW, 21 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[mnomaha]

Actually, if I remember correctly, one critic actually retracted his praise. And they really should pay more attention to the critics that aren't in their pocket..aka Penny Arcade. They get the game for free and are basically just lip service.

We are the fans. We pay for the game and actually play it, expecting a fully immersible RPG environment. If I wanted otherwise, I would go play Crysis.

[LucyMaire]

Yeah, *we're* the people who actually care. They're treating us like crazed idiots who don't know what we're talking about.
At least, that's what the Dr. guy sounded like to me. It was so condescending.

[braxy29]

LucyMaire wrote...
He's my favorite character of all time too, out of the plethora of video game characters I adore.
I hate when Bioware people deflect our complaints by saying "Well some passionate (they mean crazy) fans didn't like things about the game...but all these critics say it's amazing"
First of all, it's the fans that matter, not the critics.
Secondly, those critics obviously didn't romance Thane.

well, i know it has been said before, but it seems really dumb to me that they created a character specifically to appeal to women (i dunno, maybe some gay guys also like him with femshep?  i have one friend who loves playing female characters, but he hasn't done mass effect so i don't know whether thane would appeal to him, and honestly i suspect not), and then they are surprised and blow us off when it works.

they gave us the kind of romance many of us wanted - not just that thane was designed to be physically appealing (and oceans, is he!), but that there is a real depth to the interaction.  you get to know him on a level that i don't think you necessarily get with the others.  he's kind, gentle, devoted, devout, romantic, passionate, intelligent, well-spoken, chivalrous, insightful...  i could go on, i'm sure.    

my point is that bioware gave us a fairly ideal romantic partner, at least for those of us who like more serious characters as opposed to the laid-back buddy type of interaction you get with garrus, and then they are surprised when we react strongly when they forget about him.  it seems so foolish to me!

you know, i normally like third person shooters (and i also like sci-fi), but this was my first real attempt at playing an rpg.  i played a little fallout 3 and wasn't too drawn in.  honestly, i think thane is what drew me into this universe, made me want to understand it and what had happened to shepard in the first game.

so... do they really want to appeal to a broad audience, or not?  the whole "inclusive" spiel we get from them is starting to sound like lip-service, because, while we had same-sex romances in me3, it really lost what had set it apart for me in me2.  i wish we had either gotten the in-depth role-play and conversation options we did before, or they should have just quit pushing the whole "choice" business and made it into the shooter it really amounted to.  i still find the combat fun, but the story feels more like drudgery now, especially since i realize that so many of the oh-so-important choices i made don't amount to anything.

(example - i have an autistic kid.  my pure renegade gave david to cerberus, and it was heart-wrenching for me to make that choice on my second me2 playthrough.  i'm using that shep for me3 since i really liked her powers and i though she might have a better chance of "winning" against the reapers, and as far as i can tell the only thing keeping david from cerberus would have changed is he would have made an extremely brief, unimportant appearance in jack's mission and archer would have said one thing differently.)

so, more on topic for this thread - why are they treating us "passionate" fans like a bunch of crazies when their character was a success?  grrrr

edited to add - i don't think they even know if they want an emotional rpg anymore, as they claim they do.  it seems more like a "cinematic experience" ala uncharted 3, but a lot more drawn out.

Modifié par braxy29, 21 mars 2012 - 08:56 .

[RGC_Ines]

Well I sent a message to BioWare about Thane in ME3 and Im waiting for answer ( if I will get ever one)..Hope after they will fix ending ( I finished ME3 3 times, and tbh still can't understand it), they will also fix Thane & Jacob in ME3.

[LucyMaire]

@Braxy
Ex.ac.tly. Just because Garrus Tali and Liara were the most popular LIs doesn't mean they were the only ones with fans!
Scenes are so much more emotional when you know they are a result of your decisions. I agree completely that it's more of a cinematic experience in ME3. It's so much more impersonal...instead of feeling immersed in the game, I feel like I'm watching it. I don't know if that makes any sense but in the other two I felt more in control, like I was part of the game.

On a side note, wow that must have been even more heartbreaking for you than it was for most other people. That's another thing I don't really like. The paragon/renegade system promotes completely one-sided characters. I wish mine could have been more 3-dimensional. And the fact that the choices you made in that DLC have the most minimal impact on the game imaginable makes the DLC seem pointless.

Modifié par LucyMaire, 21 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[Daicotje]

A quick nudge towards the this group http://social.biowar.../&v=discussions

I could really use some more input for the 'Support Thane wristbands' now as well as for Thane T-shirts in the future