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Protesting the Poor Treatment of Thane Krios' Romance


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#1426
Julia_xo

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Niemalna wrote...
I don't understand why Thane went from "accepting" his death, even basically throwing himself at it, to finally being afraid of dying, to going right back to "I've lived a good life and it's over." That kind of reasoning normally works well, but not when he's already gone through that stage. He has so much to live for, Kolyat at the very least, Shepard if romanced. This is his second life; I can't see him giving it up so easily.
And I agree with you, Moira-chan. My Shepard was well beyond and past Kaidan, and that dialogue was an obvious sort of, "Look, just take Kaidan and ignore the whole Thane thing that happened down the hallway. ;)" No thank you.
I don't understand why they gave up on him. That's what they did exactly. Their shiny new character thrown away. And not just Thane, but the entire Drell race. Never really discussed or expanded on. You learn more and more about Turians and Krogans and Protheans, but all the information you ever really get on Drell came in ME2.
I guess it's back to writing fanfiction for me. haha


Niemalna wrote...

And "The lover never leaves." That's drives me nuts. I guess some people connect it with Irikah, but I think for romanced Shepards that it's kind of a stab. Beautiful prayer, but it seems kind of cold because that's how it should have been. Not this, "Let me visit you one time and get some action." Even when he asks to do something "less strenuous" I got so excited. I was like, "Yaaay talk time talk time talk time." Go back to the conversation wheel, but
nope, same old lame dialogue.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]
They didn't treat him like a romance. He was some booty call. I'm pretty sure, after how everything went down in ME2, with him crying and them spending so much time together, that it was pretty evident that there was love. He didn't move on from Irikah and have all that stuff with Kolyat because he found some nice buddy. They had a relationship, and I feel like Shepard and the whole rest of the crew didn't seem to realize that, somehow. As upset as she was over the boy, with the way that went and connected with Earth and her people, she should have been
just as traumatized and reactive with Thane's (or any LI's) death. Because, especially if the LI isn't human, that's not just Earth. Not just her people. It's everyone, even those closest to her. No way she could just get over it without some kind of reaching out. Breaking stuff, crying on Garrus's shoulder, anything. And then, if you got a
living ending, she should be packing up and going straight to the desert like she promised to take him.
I bought some fish from Kahje's oceans. It's the best I could do for the room since we can't even have a blasted picture...


Exactly, Thane should want to live for his son and for Shepard (if romanced). We never even hear about the lung transplant again. Why didn't he try for it while Shep was locked up? There's no option to even ask him about it.

It's like the devs completely discarded his character development along with the ME2 romance. He goes from telling Shepard any time he has is hers to take and writing in his letter that he wants to stay by her side and protect her with everything that he is to telling her they always knew it would end and to live well in the time she has. The relationship was pretty much dismissed after that first and only conversation.

I was stunned because it was so out of character for him to say that. You can't even tell Thane you're there to see him. Shepard always defaults to saying she's there for the VS. There is something SO wrong with that whole scene. You're completely right, Shepard treats Thane like he was a booty call and all she wants is to get physical. There's no real option to emotionally connect with Thane again. Shepard can't ever say she loves him. Not even when he's on his death-bed. The treatment of the 'romance' ,if you can even call it that in ME3, was horrific.

I liked the prayer but not the fact that it's the same for every Shepard, regardless of whether you romanced him or not. His death should have been a more personal and emotional scene if Thane was Shepard's love.

Patrick Weekes, one of the devs, claim they "forgot" about him: Yeah, I wasn't in charge of Thane, but I see Thane's death situation as one of those things that's the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn't click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

More like they took the ball and smashed it into our faces. D:

Miranda's death is optional but that didn't stop them from making it emotional or remembering that Miranda is a love interest and adding in appropriate lines to reflect that. It really doesn't make sense to me.

Modifié par Julia_xo, 22 mars 2012 - 10:38 .


#1427
braxy29

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yamainu1984 wrote...

Visii wrote...
I hated the prayer.
In ME2 he used prayer in a variety of situations.
In ME3, like EVERY OTHER WORD HE SPOKE and every facet of his personality, his spirituality was only shown in relation to his illness, his death.


Yeah you are so right Visii :( Since what else did we get? A talk about how ill he is and how soon he will die. Great thing.... Greatest character broken again for nothing.  Wanna scream loud just to bring him back... I am hoping so much that they just listen with one ear to OUR prayers. I tried to play it a second time, but I lost motivation somehow. I wanna meet him again but there is always this sentence that Shep came for Kaidan. Don't wanna hear it anymore. I think I am going to wait for at least something new they will release. Meanwhile with my very own story of ME3 in my head and the hope that they just do anything to put us out of our misery. Only good thing: it nearly cannot get any worse at all for the Thane input. I still love the game. Hell how much I love it. And how much I love my FemShep. And now I don't want to play it anymore? Come on Bioware That's the most terrible thing which could had happend :crying:


you know that is a good point from visii that his prayer reinforces how one dimensional he is in me3.  

but yamainu, i started wondering this morning whether they could actually make it all worse.  maybe it is almost a good thing if they don't give us more thane, because, as others have said, it doesn't seemt that anyone in their current batch of writers has any love for him.  the fact that the letter and his conversation contradict each other, and contradict the me2 romance makes it clear that whoever is in charge of writing him doesn't understand or care anything about what made him such a rich, complex character.

i mean, it could be worse.  i hope fellow sihas won't be angry at me for saying so, but at least with what we've got i can add to it and work it around in my head.  they could add a bunch more garbage that is even further out of character, and then i would be so depressed about it all over again.  :?  i can't imagine how it could be worse, but given what they did to the jacob romance (and i don't even like jacob, but that sucked!), i'm not sure i want to know how badly they could butcher thane.

i mean, in a perfect world they would fix this with dlc and corrections or changes to the me3 scenes, but i'm not sure i give bioware that much credit at this point.

#1428
braxy29

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Julia_xo wrote...
It's like the devs completely discarded his character development along with the ME2 romance.
(snip)
I was stunned because it was so out of character for him to say that. You can't even tell Thane you're there to see him. Shepard always defaults to saying she's there for the VS. There is something SO wrong with that whole scene. You're completely right, Shepard treats Thane like he was a booty call and all she wants is to get physical. There's no real option to emotionally connect with Thane again. Shepard can't ever say she loves him. Not even when he's on his death-bed. The treatment of the 'romance' ,if you can even call it that in ME3, was horrific.


OMG THIS.  i hate the whole booty call feeling of it.  thane's a hot drell, but that isn't what the romance was about.  i don't think the writers understood that even in a very basic way.  again, i am so glad i never played me1 or had to deal with kaiden, because i would be so LIVID about all that.

#1429
lothvamp

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Thane was my favorite romance, and I felt that ME3 pretty much ruined it (like the ending did for the rest of the game, but I won't get into that here). It started when I talked to Liara (my ME1 romance) and she asked if I still had feelings for her. I was all "Nope. Sorry, I chose Thane."

I -mistakenly- thought that meant that Thane would be a fully fleshed out romance option. Then I got that concerned letter telling me he was in the hospital on Citadel O.O *rushes to Huerta Memorial* The one -lacking- conversation was a little underwhelming. I figured there HAD to be more. And then he died :( And not a single **** was given that day. By anyone. >_<

It WAS kinda satisfying to stab Kai Leng in the name of Thane, but that was little consolation to how the romance was sidelined.

#1430
mnomaha

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Don't have much to add, but just out of curiosity...has anyone else noticed that most other major character threads have some kind of bw interaction, whether it be mods or other?

Even the thread about Ken and Gabby have that.

#1431
blueshepard

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braxy29 wrote...

yamainu1984 wrote...

Visii wrote...
I hated the prayer.
In ME2 he used prayer in a variety of situations.
In ME3, like EVERY OTHER WORD HE SPOKE and every facet of his personality, his spirituality was only shown in relation to his illness, his death.


Yeah you are so right Visii :( Since what else did we get? A talk about how ill he is and how soon he will die. Great thing.... Greatest character broken again for nothing.  Wanna scream loud just to bring him back... I am hoping so much that they just listen with one ear to OUR prayers. I tried to play it a second time, but I lost motivation somehow. I wanna meet him again but there is always this sentence that Shep came for Kaidan. Don't wanna hear it anymore. I think I am going to wait for at least something new they will release. Meanwhile with my very own story of ME3 in my head and the hope that they just do anything to put us out of our misery. Only good thing: it nearly cannot get any worse at all for the Thane input. I still love the game. Hell how much I love it. And how much I love my FemShep. And now I don't want to play it anymore? Come on Bioware That's the most terrible thing which could had happend :crying:


you know that is a good point from visii that his prayer reinforces how one dimensional he is in me3.  

but yamainu, i started wondering this morning whether they could actually make it all worse.  maybe it is almost a good thing if they don't give us more thane, because, as others have said, it doesn't seemt that anyone in their current batch of writers has any love for him.  the fact that the letter and his conversation contradict each other, and contradict the me2 romance makes it clear that whoever is in charge of writing him doesn't understand or care anything about what made him such a rich, complex character.

i mean, it could be worse.  i hope fellow sihas won't be angry at me for saying so, but at least with what we've got i can add to it and work it around in my head.  they could add a bunch more garbage that is even further out of character, and then i would be so depressed about it all over again.  :?  i can't imagine how it could be worse, but given what they did to the jacob romance (and i don't even like jacob, but that sucked!), i'm not sure i want to know how badly they could butcher thane.

i mean, in a perfect world they would fix this with dlc and corrections or changes to the me3 scenes, but i'm not sure i give bioware that much credit at this point.


Oh yes - if I think of Jacob you are truely right! I am sorry I totally agree with you: they could have done it much more worse! I meant if (the biiiiig IF) they change anything in future I think they can just make it better than it is now.... (best thing cure him, at least give us some pictures or mourns from characters. Even the smallest hint would turn out for good...) I hope... at least... But of course this whole Jacob thing just sucks for anyone who romanced him! And I really feel for them as well ;; I agree, best thing would be if they just fix all the romance options. Hope dies last!

#1432
blueshepard

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mnomaha wrote...

Don't have much to add, but just out of curiosity...has anyone else noticed that most other major character threads have some kind of bw interaction, whether it be mods or other?

Even the thread about Ken and Gabby have that.


Just depressing.... Not sure if this Fanbook thing will get their attention, but at least its a try.

#1433
JECW

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mnomaha wrote...

Don't have much to add, but just out of curiosity...has anyone else noticed that most other major character threads have some kind of bw interaction, whether it be mods or other?

Even the thread about Ken and Gabby have that.


No I didn't notice that.
That's just really sad. Do they just not like his character.

Modifié par JECW, 22 mars 2012 - 11:00 .


#1434
LucyMaire

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lothvamp wrote...

Thane was my favorite romance, and I felt that ME3 pretty much ruined it (like the ending did for the rest of the game, but I won't get into that here). It started when I talked to Liara (my ME1 romance) and she asked if I still had feelings for her. I was all "Nope. Sorry, I chose Thane."

I -mistakenly- thought that meant that Thane would be a fully fleshed out romance option. Then I got that concerned letter telling me he was in the hospital on Citadel O.O *rushes to Huerta Memorial* The one -lacking- conversation was a little underwhelming. I figured there HAD to be more. And then he died :( And not a single **** was given that day. By anyone. >_<

It WAS kinda satisfying to stab Kai Leng in the name of Thane, but that was little consolation to how the romance was sidelined.


Completely how I felt. The one thing I was worried about was whether they would kill him off. NEVER did I expect them to completely disregard his romance, utterly ignore (or forget) his character development, and then have him die and *never* mention him again. 
It just seems so unlike bIoware. I don't know what to think---maybe it is ea's fault. All I know is my expectations were 1,000 times higher than this.
And disappointment is such a ****ty feeling :crying:

#1435
LucyMaire

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What!?! They're posting on other people's threads? Why do they despise us!?

May I just say that I've tweeted them about 10 times today and have not been answered *once.* You can keep ignoring me, @masseffect, but I won't give up that easily.

#1436
Niemalna

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Yes, I always wonder about that. Not just in terms of Thane/Irikah, but people in general. Who would you go with if you had the ability to be with every person you ever truly loved? Especially if you lost someone due to tragedy. But I can see Irikah "letting" Thane and Shepard be togehter instead. Because I actually really respect Irikah, and the obviously love that Thane had for her. The dynamic in the Krios family helped with Thane's characterization a little more, but again, just like with Kepral's, it didn't define him. (That's a great part of him. He's so concretely who he is, but at the same time he's so many things that you can't just pinpoint certain aspects. That's great characterization.)
But by the time of his death, he's changed ever so slightly to where I see him, personally, being a better match for Shepard. I envision Irikah as this loving, open-minded, and almost innocent woman, but also strong willed and protective (hence why she stood up to him). But she's still separated more because she isn't a warrior/soldier/killer/etc herself. She's the one of a kind "idealized maiden" men go to war for, but then maybe get a closer bond with someone in the trenches. But I think the three of them would have a good relationship, especially with Kolyat. I still see him as a momma's boy, even if he's got this new relationship with his father. So maybe Irikah brings Kolyat to dinner and Thane brings Shepard? :D On a desert with a shoreline and the sunrise and happiness and love everywhere~~

Modifié par Niemalna, 22 mars 2012 - 11:12 .


#1437
Niemalna

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braxy29 wrote...


i mean, it could be worse.  i hope fellow sihas won't be angry at me for saying so, but at least with what we've got i can add to it and work it around in my head.  they could add a bunch more garbage that is even further out of character, and then i would be so depressed about it all over again.  :?  i can't imagine how it could be worse, but given what they did to the jacob romance (and i don't even like jacob, but that sucked!), i'm not sure i want to know how badly they could butcher thane.


This is also true. I think it was INFINITELY worse that Jacob claims he "still loves" Shepard but just won't be with her because he's having a kid. That's not closure at all. He should have just said he'd moved on. You can take that, accept it, and try to move on as well. But his claim that there are still mutual feelings forces people to cling on to that, and to be even more upset that it's not because there isn't love, isn't a chance for a relationship, but rather it's external circumstances that keep them apart.
Death falls into that "external" category that causes problems for me. But at least death isn't something you can control. Jacob could easily just apologize and try to move on from Cole, kid or no, and be with Shepard and still be that better dad, but even earlier on because he'd know not the leave like Thane left Kolyat.

#1438
Cosmochyck

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Don't have much to add, but just out of curiosity...has anyone else noticed that most other major character threads have some kind of bw interaction, whether it be mods or other?

Even the thread about Ken and Gabby have that.


Is it time to bust into those threads and PM the devs?? Why ISN'T THANE getting that attention? Especially since he didn't get any in ME3. I just feel so cheated especially as I'm replaying ME2 right now. Death was the easy thing to do to his character - they chose the easy way out. His story had so much more potential! And they all just brush it aside...

And I'm all over twitter as well - sorry for those that follow - pretty much every post is ME related.

#1439
LucyMaire

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Are we not making ourselves loud enough? We have several forum threads and groups all pertaining to Thane. Why do we not get any recognition? This is infuriating!

#1440
utaker1988

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Yes it is infuriating, I think we are quite vocal too.

#1441
Cosmochyck

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Why wasn't this a scene??
Image IPB
by ~RipperJo

And it's totally infuriating - but perhaps it's because they don't want to open the can of worms?? Or Pandora's box? They know if they come by it will be countless posts???

And so it should be dammit! Thane & Shep deserve better!

#1442
Niemalna

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Well, I haven't seen any on this thread or the fanbook and such, but I thought a few months ago before ME2 came out that I'd seen some conversation on other forums. Just in case someone didn't know (because I didn't. There hiding deep from the first page) these are probably some of the biggest as of now (and I think we should advertise our fanbook over there, as the Cure Thane Krios Fan-Club has almost 1500 members.) If anyone else knows of more threads, can you link me to them? I'm going to try and be as vocal as you've all been now that I figured out how to use this site. xDD

http://social.biowar...28/index/942953
http://social.biowar...p/1310/#members

Modifié par Niemalna, 23 mars 2012 - 12:14 .


#1443
mnomaha

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I *think* Pacifien was the only one that ever chatted with us and that was in the ME2 forum. :(

Lovely pic! Makes me even more depressed though.

#1444
Niemalna

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That's a great pic! I love how Thane looks kind of darkly handsome, yet he's sitting there in a peaceful moment with Shep. :wub:

Modifié par Niemalna, 23 mars 2012 - 12:13 .


#1445
braxy29

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mnomaha wrote...

Don't have much to add, but just out of curiosity...has anyone else noticed that most other major character threads have some kind of bw interaction, whether it be mods or other?

Even the thread about Ken and Gabby have that.


seriously?  wow.  i just do not know what to make of that.  again, i'm not optimistic.  i don't know why bioware seems to actively NOT CARE about thane.  :(  it's like they couldn't kill him off fast enough in me3.

#1446
braxy29

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@lucy maire, what was the response you got on twitter today?

whoever was answering twitter last night got chatty and friendly with me about how i should play multiplayer when i was trying to be positive and mentioned that i did like the combat (i figured it might help if we put our request in with some positive feedback, make ourselves out as fans of bioware and not just fans of thane). it was nice that they had a conversation with me, and maybe i should try it (i normally don't play online, because i can't deal with trolls). this morning however i found myself thinking that a lot of women don't enjoy multi-player, but a lot of women DO enjoy thane. wish they would try to appeal to this part of their audience instead of just trying to get us in line with the guys.

edit to add - did jen merizan ever mention thane in all her twitter stuff?

Modifié par braxy29, 23 mars 2012 - 12:43 .


#1447
Visii

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I've been a bit loud on Twitter about all the ME2 LI's for the most part. I'll keep trying.

Anyone have a list of people we should tweet besides the ME3 page?

#1448
LucyMaire

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I didn't get a response on Twitter, as far as I know. I dreamed about it though! So maybe it's a sign or something.
I've pretty much spammed them now. I have been sending tweets with positive feedback but they still don't answer me. They're so courteous to everyone else, too. I just asked them to possibly respond to some of the Thane threads we have up. I doubt they'll answer me though.
I saw that on twitter, Braxy! I was surprised. Even though it kind of does just make me more bitter about the fact that they're rarely answering my Thane tweets.

#1449
braxy29

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also, (sorry i'm spammy atm), niemalna, i love your thoughts on thane and irikah. i really see thane and shep understanding each other on a level that thane and irikah probably didn't. it's not that i think thane and irikah didn't also love each other, but shep would have an understanding of thane's life and work and his conflicts over what he does that irikah in all honesty probably wouldn't.

cosmochyk, that picture is what we should have gotten, even if they still wanted to kill him off. there is a deep connection between thane and shep in that pic that bioware did not acknowledge, but that is the connection we saw between them at the end of me2 and in the letter. what a beautiful painting, and i'm glad you posted it.

#1450
Niemalna

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Is there a "Me3 Needs More Thane" on Twitter? I don't have an account, but I was looking @MassEffect and someone named "ME3 Needs More Jack" got a nice response. :) And I'd like to be able to just "ctrl+find" conversations about Thane, but since @MassEffect never says his name, and I can't see the people who tweet to them, I can't find the discussions without just clicking "In reply to---" for every post. lol