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[BigBad]

One thing I just do not get about the Thane romance brouhaha. If you knowingly start a relationship with a character who has an incurable terminal illness, do you really get to complain when that illness turns out to actually be both incurable and terminal?

And is it really so offensive that instead of being afraid and mournful, he has accepted his death and become at peace with his life in the little time he has left? I mean, I've not played a FemShep and so have no experience with Thane's romance path other than Youtube, but when I first spoke with him in Huerta Memorial and found him at peace, my first thought was 'good for you, dude.'

Not trying to troll, so don't take this for flame-bait. Just curious as to what the issue is, exactly.

[RShara]

BigBad, thanks for a reasonable question rather than a troll post

To bullet point it, yes we knew he was dying. We hoped for a cure. Bioware did numerous things that made us believe this was a possibility, similar to their promises for the endings of ME3. Things that were not lived up to, and quite frankly, forgotten about.

Additionally, a romanced Thane, during the final cabin scene, confesses that he's found a reason to want to live, and that he is now afraif of dying. In 3, he's gone back to the non-romanced stance of, I've made my peace with it. It's contradictory.

And to quote myself from previous posts:

See, there definitely shouldn't be a magical cure for Thane. That would be cliche and almost as offensive as what has happened in game.
I think that if you romanced him, and got the conversation where he no longer wants to die, then when you import your game, you should have the option to go on a quest to save him. You can save Miranda depending on your decisions, why can't you save Thane?
If Thane were strong enough he should have been able to drive off Kai Leng without being seriously hurt (accepting the fact that Kai Leng has impenetrable plot armor).

Thane was never "destined" to die. The writers in ME2 said they weren't sure where they were going to take the character.

Heck, at this point, we're not even hoping for a cure. But From LotSB, you see Thane is a candidate for a transplant but declined. It is not specified whether this is BEFORE or after romancing Shepard.

An extension from the transplant would be fine, and we could do LOTS OF SPECULATION on the rest.

And finally, if he HAS to die, he should at least get a reaction for it. Not a single member of the crew acknowledges his death. Hell, the game forces you toward Kaidan seconds afterward.
Even Garrus, who is standing in front of the memorial with Thane's name on it, asks after KAIDAN and says how nice it is to have him back on board, wtf?

tl;dr: His character was handled badly in all ways for anyone who romanced him.

[coldwetn0se]

But if you are not reading the other posts, and haven't done (and paid attention) to the romance, then it is a bit like trolling. He expressed a will to live; so character arc in me3 for a romanced Thane is altered (and then not really changed between a romanced Thane or friend Thane.). Also be aware that many people who connected with Thane may have had hope for an extention on his life, because of loved ones in there life that were (or have) suffering from illnesses. The idea of having choices to help extend or save this characters life is a chance to change something in a game, that they can not change in life. And honestly, it is a sad day when all people ever see in someone with a terminal illness, is that illness. Even in animated form.

[mnomaha]

That pretty much sums it up, but in addition to all that, one of the writers (I think) admitted to "dropping the ball" with Thane because they forgot he was a love interest.

[RShara]

There's also the fact that gaming is a form of escapism. Many of us have known someone IRL who had a terminal illness. Seeing it beaten in a game helps to give someone in that situation a bit of hope--to know that not ALL endings are bleak.

[coldwetn0se]

Very well said, Shara!

Heck, at this point, we're not even hoping for a cure. But From LotSB, you see Thane is a candidate for a transplant but declined. It is not specified whether this is BEFORE or after romancing Shepard.

I believe it is BEFORE the romance.  I have done LotSB relatively early in the game (have got all my squaddies, but haven't gone for the reaper IFF nor finished all LM), and seen the medical report from Chakwas in his Dosier.  So they could have easily had him change his mind after he Shep romances him.  Thats how I see it.

[BigBad]

Huh. I can see how that treatment would be irritating, but I honestly don't think Thane's character arc could have ended better. He spent his life taking lives, he ended his life by saving them. Even if his romance path ended with him once again feeling his mortality and wishing to live, he has six months without you to get over what is, let's be honest, a natural but painful and unhealthy attitude toward his incurable condition and make peace with it again.

As for the rest of the crew not really responding to the deatht, this isn't something specific to Thane, though I understand that makes it no less aggravating. Kaiden died on Virmire in my playthrough, and I think he got mentioned more times in ME3 than any other dead character. They tend to get one mention in a non-cutscene auto-dialogue and then they're just a name on the wall.

ETA: They forgot Thane was a love interest? How the he--- I read his character design blog. He was specifically created to be a love interest, and one of the signature ME2 characters at that. It wasn't somethign tacked on later, like Garrus's romance.

Modifié par BigBad, 24 mars 2012 - 07:10 .

[mnomaha]

RShara wrote...

There's also the fact that gaming is a form of escapism. Many of us have known someone IRL who had a terminal illness. Seeing it beaten in a game helps to give someone in that situation a bit of hope--to know that not ALL endings are bleak.

Yeah, a whole lot of this.

[sunnie7699]

BigBad wrote...

One thing I just do not get about the Thane romance brouhaha. If you knowingly start a relationship with a character who has an incurable terminal illness, do you really get to complain when that illness turns out to actually be both incurable and terminal?

And is it really so offensive that instead of being afraid and mournful, he has accepted his death and become at peace with his life in the little time he has left? I mean, I've not played a FemShep and so have no experience with Thane's romance path other than Youtube, but when I first spoke with him in Huerta Memorial and found him at peace, my first thought was 'good for you, dude.'

Not trying to troll, so don't take this for flame-bait. Just curious as to what the issue is, exactly.

Me: BoredShep, put the flamethrower away!

BoredShep: awwww.... (but I'm bored )


But yeah, what RShara said sums up our thread nicely.

[RShara]

There isn't even a one-cutscene like autodialogue about him *sigh*

[braxy29]

just stopping in to let ya'll know that i found a pic of thane and one of mordin on the memorial wall at the citadel docks.

[sunnie7699]

RShara wrote...

There isn't even a one-cutscene like autodialogue about him *sigh*

Exactly. I guess people who haven't romanced him just can't understand how frustrating that is.

[mnomaha]

BigBad wrote...

Huh. I can see how that treatment would be irritating, but I honestly don't think Thane's character arc could have ended better. He spent his life taking lives, he ended his life by saving them. Even if his romance path ended with him once again feeling his mortality and wishing to live, he has six months without you to get over what is, let's be honest, a natural but painful and unhealthy attitude toward his incurable condition and make peace with it again.

As for the rest of the crew not really responding to the deatht, this isn't something specific to Thane, though I understand that makes it no less aggravating. Kaiden died on Virmire in my playthrough, and I think he got mentioned more times in ME3 than any other dead character. They tend to get one mention in a non-cutscene auto-dialogue and then they're just a name on the wall.

ETA: They forgot Thane was a love interest? How the he--- I read his character design blog. He was specifically created to be a love interest, and one of the signature ME2 characters at that. It wasn't somethign tacked on later, like Garrus's romance.

Yes, they admitted to dropping the ball. They promised equal treatment to all the love interests, but apparently forgot Thane was one of them.

[RShara]

BigBad: Yep, they forgot that Thane was a LI. Patrick Weekes admitted that they "dropped the ball" on that. I'm sure there's a screenshot around somewhere still.

[mnomaha]

sunnie7699 wrote...

RShara wrote...

There isn't even a one-cutscene like autodialogue about him *sigh*

Exactly. I guess people who haven't romanced him just can't understand how frustrating that is.

That's because most people romance one of the fab four.

edit: changed it back to fab four because one of them got enough attention for two characters.

Modifié par mnomaha, 24 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[braxy29]

*headdesk* sorry, those are all missing pictures, so i guess it is some other random drell and salarian. ugh

[coldwetn0se]

Ahh, but there in lies the crux of the other problems I had with this game. I understood that we had to have the same starting point for all our Sheps, but I couldn't stand the fact that they detained her/him at all, let alone for six months. The feel of this Shep (me3 shep), is out side of how I was able to RP her in the two other games. Through in the cringe worthy auto-dialogue we get at times (cringe worthy to me), with no chance to choose a voice or direction, and pretty soon, none of it makes sense. After Thane's botched character arc (at least for romance....if it needs to be said), I put the game down, and couldn't play it any more.

And you are right....there was not enough mention of the others as well, but still.....none of them mentioned Thane.

So, I choose to go back to playing ME2, and I make up my own story for my Sheps as to what happens after the Omega4 Relay.

[mnomaha]

LOL sorry, meant to say something. I do that every time I pass that wall. There's another one...in Zaeed's room.

[BigBad]

Well, thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasn't really aware that it was that badly handled. I can see where you guys are coming from now.

[mnomaha]

Thanks for keeping an open mind BigBad, you are a rare person.

[coldwetn0se]

Yes, thank you BigBad....and love the Spike shout out......if that was what you were going for.

[sunnie7699]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Ahh, but there in lies the crux of the other problems I had with this game. I understood that we had to have the same starting point for all our Sheps, but I couldn't stand the fact that they detained her/him at all, let alone for six months. The feel of this Shep (me3 shep), is out side of how I was able to RP her in the two other games. Through in the cringe worthy auto-dialogue we get at times (cringe worthy to me), with no chance to choose a voice or direction, and pretty soon, none of it makes sense. After Thane's botched character arc (at least for romance....if it needs to be said), I put the game down, and couldn't play it any more.

And you are right....there was not enough mention of the others as well, but still.....none of them mentioned Thane.

So, I choose to go back to playing ME2, and I make up my own story for my Sheps as to what happens after the Omega4 Relay.

I don't really understand the whole detaining thing, I mean I can't imagine Shep sitting in one place for 6 months when there is a reaper invasion to planned for.. either Renagade or Paragon shep, it just doesn't fit

[BigBad]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Yes, thank you BigBad....and love the Spike shout out......if that was what you were going for.

Guilty. Old school Buffy fan, here. Which makes me feel almost old nowadays.

[RShara]

Thanks for keeping an open mind, BigBad. It's important to emphasize we're not looking for a magic cure, but protesting HOW BADLY the character was handled overall, as well.

[mnomaha]

I loved Buffy. I wish we had the reruns over here.

Funny that her hub voiced Vega.