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[II JazB x]

The rings emit a harmonic frequency which targets the nervous systems of ALL sentient life. The Forerunners took samples of species and stored them on the Ark and I think some Shield Worlds, so after the Halos fired the remaining Forerunners on the Ark repopulated the planets and then left the Orion Arm.

It is explained in-game but I can see the similarities with the Crucible.

Modifié par II JazB x, 24 mai 2012 - 04:25 .

[The Night Mammoth]

JBPBRC wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

There's also a reliance on mystical, almost mythical, and unknown but vastly powerful devices we can't comprehend.

The Halo array is actually simple enough once explained. Flood countermeasure, kills off their food supply, massive doomsday weapon of last resort. The Crucible...different story.

Yeah, it kills the flood's food supply. 

That's it really. The nature of the device is largely unknown. I'm not arguing that the rings are unsupported plot-devices, just the nature of them being these ancient machines we can't comprehend that were left behind by an alien species thousands of years ago is similar to the Crucible. 

Fires a big pulse that makes the Flood starve to death. That's all we need to know. Having a bunch of technobabble won't make it any more efficient. Unlike what happened with the Reapers, sometimes its best to keep things simple.

Yes, and here's the differences between how Bungie does it and how BioWare does it. 

Bungie implemented the idea of mystical alien devices from the off-set and continued the trend. 

BioWare do it in the last ten minutes of a franchise where player's are used to knowing the details. 

[Omanisat]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

^Seriously? Reach was full of bland characters who get killed through their own incompetence more than anything else and an ending telegraphed from a mile away. It also destroyed 9 years of canon.

Yes, seriously. I'm not talking about how everyone dies, and I'm certainly not advocating Reach as a masterpiece of story telling, or that the characters were anything but generic. 

All I'm saying it that for a story about sacrifice against unbeatable odds, here's your case-study. 

As for chatacters dying due to their own incompetance, you could only label one like that: Kat.

Prefer Nylund's version of events though. 

Jorge: Forgot a basic rule of the military: Bring two because the first one will break.
Emile: Didn't check his six
Noble 6: Decided a pointless last stand was better then at least trying to escape.

[The Night Mammoth]

Omanisat wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

^Seriously? Reach was full of bland characters who get killed through their own incompetence more than anything else and an ending telegraphed from a mile away. It also destroyed 9 years of canon.

Yes, seriously. I'm not talking about how everyone dies, and I'm certainly not advocating Reach as a masterpiece of story telling, or that the characters were anything but generic. 

All I'm saying it that for a story about sacrifice against unbeatable odds, here's your case-study. 

As for chatacters dying due to their own incompetance, you could only label one like that: Kat.

Prefer Nylund's version of events though. 

Jorge: Forgot a basic rule of the military: Bring two because the first one will break.

Bring two Shaw-Fujikawa drives? Good luck with that, and it also wasn't his plan. 

Emile: Didn't check his six

Two on one, what could he do?

Noble 6: Decided a pointless last stand was better then at least trying to escape.

Escape to where? On foot? Reach was about to be glassed, there's nowhere to go, especially with that many Covenant hunting you down. 

Anyway, I'm not arguing the specifics of Reach's story, this might just be the wrong place for that. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 24 mai 2012 - 04:33 .

[tetsutsuru]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

There's also a reliance on mystical, almost mythical, and unknown but vastly powerful devices we can't comprehend. The Halo array and the Crucible share these attributes, being largely unknown. Exposition to the plot is given by other characters, like the Gravemind and Guilty Spark, they speak ambiguously, in riddles and rhymes.

tetsutsuru wrote...

Not correct.  The Halo Array's origin, function, and reason for existence had been explained in-game.  No space magic.  No plot holes.  No speculations.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Then you've missed what I'm saying. 

No, I'm not arguing that the Crucible and the Halo rings are similar plot devices. One is a DEM, the other is the foundations of the entire series. 

Their nature though is similar. Alien devices, unknown in function, given mystical high-brow names, machines beyond our comprehension.

I didn't miss that you are referencing similarities between the Halo Array and the Crucible.  Not denying that.  What I'm specifically referring to are some of your enumerations which are not accurate.

True, they are both alien devices.  However, the origin and function of the Halo Array are known, and revealed in-game.  And while its operation is currently not within the established technological skill-set of UNSC (or Humanity as a whole), its not at all beyond our comprehension.

Where as the Crucible is a joke.  A bad one at that.  And I'm with you on it being a DEM.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 24 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[JBPBRC]

tetsutsuru wrote...

I didn't miss that you are referencing similarities between the Halo Array and the Crucible.  Not denying that.  What I'm specifically referring to are some of your enumerations which are not accurate.

True, they are both alien devices.  However, the fucntion of the Halo Array is known, and while its operation is currently not within the established technological skill-set of UNSC (or Humanity as a whole), its not at all beyond our comprehension.

Where as the Crucible is a joke.  A bad one at that.  And I'm with you on it being a DEM.

This sums up my thoughts as well.

[mcgreggers99]

tetsutsuru wrote...

mcgreggers99 wrote...

Yeah except Halo sucks.

Not witty, just my opinion. Probably like comparing Star Trek and Star Wars sure there are comparisons...it's scifi, there are tons of re-used concepts.

Oh good grief.  Here we go....

Troll detected.

Yeah I know it wan't exactly a poetic post, and I agree that there are a lot of similarities on the surface level. But I do think that is because of the sci-fi genre and it's usual tropes.

I have a very good friend who is working for 343 right now doing lighting effects for Halo 4, and I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt because they wonderful people and are trying to keep the ship moving forward. I'm sure it will be a great game.

But for me Mass Effect > Halo. The story feels more alive and varied. The characters seem more 3 dimensional and decisions are taken into account across all 3 games.

I've played all 3 Halo's (Never could bring myself to beat them, I lost interest. and watched the endings on youtube.) I've played all 3 Mass Effect games now multiple times.

There are definitely similar themes, but I think the ME franchise has a deeper well of ideas, concepts, and moral dillemas than Halo does.

[Omanisat]

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

[JBPBRC]

Omanisat wrote...

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

Well he IS a Spartan III. And we all know those guys are inferior to Spartan IIs.

[Omanisat]

Spartan-IIIs are inferior mainly because they are issued SPI armour, not Mjolnir. Noble team had a version of Mjolnir. And N6 managed to kill seven before he goes down.

[tetsutsuru]

Omanisat wrote...

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

I would have preferred he immediately dropped below radar and just waged guerilla warfare against occupying Covenant forces.  If they didn't have any idea he was alive, they wouldn't glass the area, right?  Gather intel, pot-shots and sabotages against Covenant forces here and there, for the next few weeks or months, whatever.  For as long as he can.

*shrug*

[tetsutsuru]

Omanisat wrote...

Spartan-IIIs are inferior mainly because they are issued SPI armour, not Mjolnir. Noble team had a version of Mjolnir. And N6 managed to kill seven before he goes down.

Power Armor aside, SPARTAN IIIs don't have nearly as much genetic enhancements and cybernetics as the IIs have.  IIs were the ultimate, and target project results.  IIIs were specifically intended to be much cheaper versions of IIs.  And, well, you get what you pay for.  Heh.

[JBPBRC]

Omanisat wrote...

Spartan-IIIs are inferior mainly because they are issued SPI armour, not Mjolnir. Noble team had a version of Mjolnir. And N6 managed to kill seven before he goes down.

No, they're inferior because they're designed to be cheaper and disposable. Trading 150 Spartan IIIs to sabotage a vital Covenant facility so humans can not be extinct for another six months. Its the perfect example of the calculus of war Garrus talks about.

Spartan IIs on the other hand, are meant to be the best of the best.

[Apocsapel91]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

I would have preferred he immediately dropped below radar and just waged guerilla warfare against occupying Covenant forces.  If they didn't have any idea he was alive, they wouldn't glass the area, right?  Gather intel, pot-shots and sabotages against Covenant forces here and there, for the next few weeks or months, whatever.  For as long as he can.

*shrug*

They glassed the entire planet...

[Omanisat]

Spartan-IIIs received the same enhancements as Spartan-IIs. They were cheaper because the initial technology used to augment the Spartan-IIs was experimental and greatly improved by the time the IIIs were created. That's why the concept was even possible.

Aside from the cheaper equipment the main flaws the IIIs had was condensed training regime and less combat experience.

[JBPBRC]

Omanisat wrote...

Spartan-IIIs received the same enhancements as Spartan-IIs. They were cheaper because the initial technology used to augment the Spartan-IIs was experimental and greatly improved by the time the IIIs were created. That's why the concept was even possible.

Aside from the cheaper equipment the main flaws the IIIs had was condensed training regime and less combat experience.

And additional chemical enhancements that made them go all KROGAN BLOODRAGE and unstable when about to die.

[Omanisat]

^ That too, although whether that's a benefit or not remains to be seen...

[JBPBRC]

Omanisat wrote...

^ That too, although whether that's a benefit or not remains to be seen...

It depends. Uncontrolled rage can be a boon but it also makes you lose focus and clarity, makes you less aware of your surroundings. A smart Elite or two would take advantage of that while the Grunts are getting their faces smashed in by HULK SMASH fists. Depends on the situation.

Can't deny that Spartan IIs have been much more effective though, especially one in particular...

[Omanisat]

Apocsapel91 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

I would have preferred he immediately dropped below radar and just waged guerilla warfare against occupying Covenant forces.  If they didn't have any idea he was alive, they wouldn't glass the area, right?  Gather intel, pot-shots and sabotages against Covenant forces here and there, for the next few weeks or months, whatever.  For as long as he can.

*shrug*

They glassed the entire planet...

One of the datapads later retconned just what glassing entails. It's not nearly as deadly or as comprehensive as stated in earlier works.

[CptBomBom00]

What about Spartans IV in Halo4 are they cheap or will they be better than IIs?
One has to wonder if Master Chief will die in this Halo or the next?
Hmmmmm, anyway I think me and Mordin will need to run some tests on seashells.

[Apocsapel91]

Omanisat wrote...

Apocsapel91 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Omanisat wrote...

^ bring two triggering devices, that's what broke. The SFTD worked just fine. And what self-respecting Spartan can't deal with two Elites, especially when he's got his trusty boomstick?

I'm also not saying he would have survived, but N6 didn't even try.

I would have preferred he immediately dropped below radar and just waged guerilla warfare against occupying Covenant forces.  If they didn't have any idea he was alive, they wouldn't glass the area, right?  Gather intel, pot-shots and sabotages against Covenant forces here and there, for the next few weeks or months, whatever.  For as long as he can.

*shrug*

They glassed the entire planet...

One of the datapads later retconned just what glassing entails. It's not nearly as deadly or as comprehensive as stated in earlier works.

Ah, I was not aware of that.

[JBPBRC]

CptBomBom00 wrote...
One has to wonder if Master Chief will die in this Halo or the next?

Neither, if he is going to die it'll be in the third game of the new trilogy, not the first or second.

[Omanisat]

@Apocsapel91: Yet another example of Reach shredding canon.

Modifié par Omanisat, 24 mai 2012 - 05:12 .

[CptBomBom00]

JBPBRC wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...
One has to wonder if Master Chief will die in this Halo or the next?

Neither, if he is going to die it'll be in the third game of the new trilogy, not the first or second.

Well we never know:P, also what would happen if Master Cheif teamed up with Shepard????
Lots of speculations:alien::alien::alien:

[JBPBRC]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...
One has to wonder if Master Chief will die in this Halo or the next?

Neither, if he is going to die it'll be in the third game of the new trilogy, not the first or second.

Well we never know:P, also what would happen if Master Cheif teamed up with Shepard????
Lots of speculations:alien::alien::alien:

Chief smashes the Starchild with a Gravity Hammer while Shepard is mulling over what color to pick.