258 réponses à ce sujet

[rishnarr]

The only issue for me is the catalyst scene. If that hadn't been there and the crucible just blew up the reapers i'd be shouting about how awesome the ending was.

[rishnarr]

heck, even if they still blew up the mass relays i would be fine

[graciegrace]

You should add the fact that the theme presented is contradictory to the series, and ultimately incorrect...

[vigna]

I think I discovered one issue I have with everything that occurs post harbinger laser--after thinking it through for 24 hours or more....
Shepard is solo! In every game (nearly at every point in the games) you have 2 squaddies with you. Shep doesn't check for them after getting up, he doesn't look around even--just walks towards the light. I think that in itself is untrue. I can't see Shepard leaving his 2 crewmates behind without checking..he also has no idea what is waiting for him at the citadel...Why wouldn't he want his potentially living crewmates with him--to help him succeed?
Shepard tells you over and over again how he never did anything by himself in a vacuum--he always had help.
Is that a nitpick or a true issue?

[CrasVox]

I am going to bump this.

Endings are hard. That is clear. LOST screwed it up, Sopranos screwed it up. When trying to really make an impact with the ending, one can get too cleaver for their own good. Try and do too much with the ending that it does not satisfy the preconceptions of it that have been built up in the viewers/readers mind as he/she went through the story.

This is not that. ME3's ending is not that at all. It is lack of skill and effort. It is just bad work. Bad talent, trying to write something, and doing it poorly. The decision was bad. The coding was bad, it is a buggy mess, it does not fit with the 99% of the rest of the ME trilogy. Maybe that was the point. It was a bad one to make if that is the case.

It is amature, this effort. All these decisions, all these battles and effrot to defeate Saren, the Collectors, and now to ready the effort to re-take Earth, none of them have bearing on the ending. None.

Those who have posted before have laid it out why in detail. The ending lacks imagination, lacks effort, lacks professionalism. It is uninspired, and it is not the ending worthy of this franchise. And it will pay the price.

[Dranume]

bumped, dont want this getting buried

[Sywen]

Nothing wrong with wanting a happy ending.

[tenacious_err]

trifecta739 wrote...

The major problem is there isn't a range of endings. There needed to be a downright awful failure ending where the Reapers win and everyone dies and there needed to be an amazing victory where the Reapers lose and everyone lives. There also needed to be everything in between. And though it is not as important, I do agree that a final battle with Harbinger would have been extremely satisfying, especially after the downhill charge and the finale with the Illusive Man. You should have been able to save Anderson or the Illusive Man if you wanted to, and have your squad by your side for the finale. My other thread that I started had more information on my thoughts, but it kinda got buried.

Seconded. Without both an ultimate failure ending where the Reapers win, and one where Shepard gets out alive, my choices throughout the game feel inconsequential. The amazing thing about the end of ME2 was that everything mattered. Shepard could die along wtih everyone else; Shepard could live and save everyone. There's no true dramatic consequences present without a range of endings.

[Craven1138]

Sywen wrote...

Nothing wrong with wanting a happy ending.

I'd say it seems fitting after this much effort hard-core players put into it.

[SandTrout]

Tartilus wrote...

I'll throw up the similar list I made earlier today, in case that helps:

I think it's important for us to consider that, at some point, a community manager is going to have to explain our thoughts to any number of developers, and accordingly it's important that a succinct list of our concerns with the ending is available. Those concerns are numerous, and here are the ones I'm familiar with so far:

1. The endings are extremely sad. This is a much-maligned criticism by individuals who associate depth with the perceived darkness of the endings, and that may or may not be a fair point. Regardless, it stands as obvious that many people were hoping for an ending which proffered some hope beyond that available in even the 'happiest' of endings.

2. The endings contain plotholes. The escape of the Normandy and the teleportation of her crew (including the formerly deceased) are the most obvious, but the lack of sufficient explanation regarding the Catalyst's efforts and origin also makes many of his/its motivations bizarre and unsatisfying.

3. The endings fail to fit in with the broadest themes of the series. Slightly different from 1, this criticism notes that the story of Commander Shepherd has always been a story of achieving the impossible with the help of a close crew and rigorous preparation. The endings as offered do not incorporate the crew, do not change significantly in response to your preparation, and while perhaps technically constitute doing the impossible, fail to meet even that low bar which is a solution that does not have an inevitable cross-racial holocaust and galactic dark age as its result.

4. The endings lack variety. This criticism can be directed at both the artistic and story aspects of the ending – the results of the ending decision not only vary little (at least, and this is important, on a scale which is important to our experiences in the game), but the resulting cinematics have only minor differences, and the various sub-endings result in changes so small as to be entirely unnoticeable. Consider that some way could've been contrived to make the Synthetic option differ from the Control option in a fashion greater than a change in the color of the 'light' and a different Texture for Joker in the games final seconds.

5. The mechanics of the ending are not appropriate. Without repeating the various criticisms as regards the ending closely mirroring Deus Ex's, the culmination of the story with a game-show-esque approach to saving the world very much fails to be satisfactory, especially when Mass Effect has otherwise been about the integration of choice into the experience

6. The endings lack dependency on the player's choices prior to the last five minutes. This is important, because the entire rest of Mass Effect 3 was about reacting to previous decisions; consider that, provided one is able to fill the 'war asset' bar in a satisfactory manner via some other means, the decisions in the third game serve no purpose to explain, shape, or enhance the endings. This seems contrary to the spirit of the other 95% of the experience.

7. The endings do not make sense given the character of Shepherd. As has been state elsewhere, we are playing some heroic badass who has otherwise talked down to, shrugged off, and inevitably defeated everyone who threatened, cajoled, or otherwise tried to force him to do something he didn't wish to do. In the ending to ME3, this character offers no rigorous questioning, no protests, no counter-arguments, no discussion of any kind save a resigned sort of death-march which could not be more contrary to his character. This is distressing.

8. The endings have implications, perhaps unintended, which seem to ruin the ME Universe. Admittedly, many of these implications could be avoided, but the lack of contrary evidence fosters a suspicion that these matters were either otherwise not considered, or supposed to be generally acceptable. Indeed, they might even be, but only with proper elaboration, of which there is none.

9. The endings fail to provide closure. There is, as a diagram that is floating around illustrates, no falling action. No conclusion. I do not know what happened to my squadmates – I do not, for reasons that may be bug related, even know which of them is alive. I do not know what happens to the universe, or to the people I've saved. I do not know how I'm remembered, or if any of the terrible things mentioned above actually happens. There almost could not possibly have been less information provided regarding the ending of the game, and that is incredibly distressing when the intention was to wrap up a series that had otherwise displayed all the signs of excellency and had a fond place in our hearts.

I motion to have this added as an addendum to the OP. For great justice.

[cyric013]

the thing most people don't point out is the fact the if a mass relay is destroyed that means a super nova size explosion, right? so earth and most if not all races have been killed if not all life.
also wish to have some kind happy ending where we at least don't cause a technological meltdown of the universe.

[Vermigs]

RxP4IN wrote...

Biggest issue: The catalyst. AKA "Incoherent, ill-conceived, and completely contrived plot device."

Definitely one of my biggest peeves with thet last 15 minutes of the game. You prove him wrong with EDI and no more than 2 hours before with the Quarians and the Geth. All I could hear him say was "Yeah all those choices you made, they didnt really matter in the end. No matter what you choose, its gonna happen MY way." Little computer brat.

[Craven1138]

It seems there's no [spoiler] tag here, so I added direct link to Tartilus list in PS of OP.

I'm especialy sympathetic to points 3,4,6 and 7.

Another thing worthy of link:
http://www.ign.com/b...em-the-trilogy/

I'm happy to see that many most important points are repeating. Gives me some kind of irrational ray of hope.

[Aanlen]

I agree with all of this. Srsly bioware. FIX. THIS.

[KatChampagne]

I agree completely and the relay explosion point is very irritating

[DocturKnowles]

The moments leading up to the 'Beam' to get back onto the Citadel were amazing. After watching the 'Take Earth Back' trailer all I could think about was ripping through indoctrinated cities to destroy husks and save civilians - the London missions were perfect for that.

...EVERYTHING after that was complete rubbish.

1. Where were your squad mates? Specifically, how did EDI get back on the Normandy and through a relay when she was in my party moments before?

2. Where was everyone on the Citadel? What about all the jamming technologies, turret technologies, civilian defense force, Captain Bailey and C-SEC, mercenaries, etc?

3. How did the Illusive Man survive the Citadel reconfiguration? And why did he have to be there at all? Should have ended this story line at the Cerberus base.

4. Where were Aria and her mercs during the last battle? Where were the Rachni, Elcor, and Volus let alone the Drell, Batarians, and Vorcha?

5. How did the Illusive Man control Shepard and Anderson?

6. Why did we get the Catalyst sprung on us at the very end? What was the point of him? We already knew what the 'Cycle' was for.

7. If we could assemble all the races in the galaxy, forge peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and survive Reapers and Collectors why were we only given endings that completely invalidated all that effort?

8. The endings as I see them are this:
Didn't prepare enough? The Crucible doesn't make it from the Relay to the Citadel.
Prepared just enough? Crucible works but gets damaged and you have to destroy the Relays to get it to work.
Perfect ending? Crucible works and destroys the Reapers but you still have to mop up Husk controlled planets, etc.

Heck, you could even have had some of the Reapers escape the Crucible by destroying the relays in the systems they were in so the signal wouldn't be broadcast to them. HELLO DLC!

[whitefire138]

I just want to say Bioware does great work with the video games that I have played in the past, I have been a big fan of mass effect since I played the first one. My biggest problem with the endings in the 3rd instalment of mass effect is, it doesn't fit this type of game. This a game that is about a soldier fighting a war against an almost invincible enemy. The mass effect story right down to it, is a millitary story with consequences that affect the entire galaxy as well as your squad. The endings to mass effect 3 reflects more of a religious figure than a soldier at war.  A good military story needs honour, sacrifice, and a feeling of brotherhood involved in all aspects of the story including the ending. Everything eles in the game reflects thoughs points.  What I feel like bioware was trying to do was turn Shepard into a galactic Jesus Christ and in doing so, dishonoured the military aspect of the game's story. Plus I can understand why people are angry about the endings not reflecting the choices that you make up to that point, because in reality it doesn't. And also it is very hard to believe that a bunch of battle hardened combat veterans that are pretty much willing to follow Shepard in to hell it's self would abandon him or her in the middle of a battle. 

Modifié par whitefire138, 11 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[cyric013]

whitefire138 wrote...

I just want to say Bioware does great work with the video games that I have played in the past, I have been a big fan of mass effect since I played the first one. My biggest problem with the endings in the 3rd instalment of mass effect is, it doesn't fit this type of game. This a game that is about a soldier fighting a war against an almost invincible enemy. The mass effect story right down to it, is a millitary story with consequences that affect the entire galaxy as well as your squad. The endings to mass effect 3 reflects more of a religious figure than a soldier at war.  A good military story needs honour, sacrifice, and a feeling of brotherhood involved in all aspects of the story including the ending. Everything eles in the game reflects thoughs points.  What I feel like bioware was trying to do was turn Shepard into a galactic Jesus Christ and in doing so, dishonoured the miliary aspect of the game's story. Plus I can understand why people are angry about the endings not reflecting the choices that you make up to that point, because in reality it doesn't. And also it is very hard to believe that a bunch of battle hardened combat veterans that are pretty much willing to follow Shepard in to hell it's self would abandon him or her in the middle of a battle. 

well said

[Ivanssaran]

I agree. I support this thread.
 
To add my thoughts to an already great thread where many of you have already done so much is hard, but I am going to try anyways.

1. Betrayed expectations, or irrelevance
 It is pretty much as 'whitefire138' says above. 
 From the beginning of the series, commander Shepard has been depicted as a hero figure who survives extreme odds with strong will, allies, and preparations. Shepard survives the fight with the sovereign and comes out of the rubble posing like a hero that s/he is. Shepard can continue to survive in the suicide mission if prepared. This is what the story and character of Shepard had been; Hope and strength beating the odds and saving lives. The previous games presented this message to players and I believe it formed a certain expectation how the last moment of the series would be like.
 However, the ending was incoherent with these implications. It suddenly becomes another story at the very end. All the effort Shepard and other characters poured into the last battle does not mean a thing at the moment of choice. The game was about destroying the reapers and bringing an end to cycles of mass destruction. It has been since the first piece of the whole series. But it suddenly changes into whole othere level of story. Shepard now stands in front of choices that was never even mentioned before.
 In a sense, being coherent is keeping a promise. Not to mention that it is the most basic element of a well made story.

2. Lack of variety of endings and poor presentation of choices
 I myself support an ending with Shepard and sqaud members surviving. I think they earned it by all the hard work and sacrifices made thus far. I know some people look down to this kind of endings becuase they feel sacrifices make more sense. I say that is great, too. The only thing I want is that players should be able to choose between those, prefarably as a result of accumulated decisions made throughout the whole game. If you prepared enough, you should have more options to choose from. If you didn't you don't get the chance. It qualifies as a 'realistic ending' for me, because in real life, opportunity do comes to people who are prepared. Also, it is what the series has been doing and implying. Presenting three little buttons before us that will sum up all the time and effort throughtout the entire series that are not even relevant to previous story - I will not call that a choice. At least not for Mass Effect. 
  Also, as memtioned above by people here and in my another thread( social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9741270/1#9742007 ), squad mates mysteriously vanishing and reappearing in the Normandy does not make sense. However, that not being expainable is not important right now, right here. As far as I'm concerned, even if someone's sacrifice is absolutely, positively needed to add power to the crucible, it doesn't have to be Shepard. Those squad members should be there at the final moment and they should be able to replace Shepard. Some people suggested bright ideas how to make that happen in the thread. I'm not asking to make amendments in those exact ways. It is an example of how choices could be presented.

3. Crude sentiments
 I understand the want of developers to kill Shepard, putting her in an inevitable situation where she has to sacrifiec herself for dramatic effect. But this time, the way they forced everything into that was too crude and tacky, forcing tears out rather than building up emotions naturally so that it could remain longer and deeper. It goes the same for the symbolism of the kid, too. I assume the catalyst appears in the form of the kid who Shepard was unable to save at the beginning of the game to represent Shepard's guilt, responsibilities, and so on, but would a ruthless renegade Shepard really see it that way? I don't really buy that any paragon Shepard would see visions like that in that matter. Why now, why him, after so many innocent victims? I can stretch my understanding to the limits and force myself to understand the boy in the dreams, but the catalyst is just too far.


 Just like so many people, I loved the game so much up until the last 15 minutes. The 40 hours before that was absolutely my best gaming experience. It is as if someone else wrote the ending.

Modifié par Ivanssaran, 11 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[Craven1138]

Updated once again.

And this has https://www.facebook...ngToMassEffect3 almost 4k likes. I support that.

Modifié par Craven1138, 11 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[Craven1138]

and one more addition about Harbinger. keep this alive.

[deathscythe517]

Total support here, though I keep wishing someone will actually get noticed by bringing up the issue that not only did the Reapers use synthetics but also that you cannot argue against the Catalyst despite the burden of proof being on it to prove that synthetics are the problem. Over the first, second, and third the only time synthetics actively attack organics is when a Reaper is involved and besides that it's self-preservation due to organic hostility VIA council laws or prejudices: that's another thing, the Council was already trying to prevent it, so what right did Godkid have to do this? The big bad Reaper boss' motive is a freaking HYPOTHETICAL at best and at worst the only time machines have tried to wipe out organics is because of his confounded Reapers.

[lasertank]

I'd like to bump this post. Hope Bioware would listen

[JemmaProphet]

Bumped & /signed. I was telling people at dinner tonight that ME3 was the best game I'd ever played...and since I just beat it an hour ago, I have to say, I won't be telling anyone that anymore.

Which is a real colossal shame. It's the best game I've ever played, right up until that stupid beam, basically. (Whoever thought the 'wounded stagger with a pistol' mechanic would be awesome should be roundly scolded and forced to eat old donuts.)

[Maplemoose]

 I've been ranting about the ending since I finished it about three hours ago, and have been trying to sort out my thoughts to make some sort of coherent post. 

The big problem, to me, is that it just doesn't fit. It really feels like an ending to another game that someone grabbed and pasted onto this one. It doesn't fit the characterization of Shepard, it doesn't fit the themes of the series, it doesn't fit the established game world...it really seems weird and nonsensical. Bioware has a long history of giving us startling twists and unexpected endings that hit like a punch to the gut--but for those to work, the groundwork has to be laid. The groundwork wasn't laid properly for this ending. You can see they did try in a couple of places in the story, but clumsily, and the ending isn't well executed. 

I remarked to a friend earlier I'd be less angry if the game had ended with Shepard and Anderson bleeding out on the Citadel, watching the Reapers being destroyed--it wouldn't make me happy, because I agree there should ideally be a good ending, a bad ending, and some in-between ones--but it would actually fit with the feel of the games I thought I was playing. A poignant way for a world-weary warrior to go out. When I heard the game had multiple endings, I was expecting something more along the lines of Dragon Age: Origins, where there is no perfect ending, but there are better ones with a price to be paid--and you decide how much of a price is too great. Because, to me, that's good storytelling. Not mystical glowing kids with weird choices and assertions your usually defiant soldier has to accept on faith. 

Up to until about the last ten minutes, I thought this was one of the best games I'd ever played. It's beautiful. The story is complex, the characters are lovingly fleshed out, and the combat is better than ever. Then that ending...that ending...I can't believe that the same people who wrote the rest of the game thought that glowingkid ex machina ending was a good idea. (Ideally, to fix the ending, I'd take him out completely, and return the focus to Shepard, squadmates, and Reapers.) I've played all three games, and taken multiple Shepards through the first two. I've so immersed in this world I've even written fanfic (the only time ever!). I played hours of multiplayer and scanned most of the universe in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, if I did a good enough job my Shepard could survive and head off with her love interest, even if it required a difficult choice and a heavy price. I ran through the last section of the game with a pounding heart, waiting to see if my hard work paid off, waiting for a suitably dramatic and satisfying ending. 

Instead, the ending was uninspired, shoehorned in, and seemed to have nothing to do with my choices or the character I'd built up. It felt like a kick in the teeth. 

I have two other Shepards that I've finished the first two games with, just waiting to be imported into the third game. 

I haven't the heart to play them now.