258 réponses à ce sujet

[romeoblue]

I don't like the ending but even given what happens I can deal with it. What I don't understand is how one of my squadmates on the last mission ends up on the Normandy at the end. When the shuttle door opens Joker, Traynor, and....Javik??? Javik was on the ground with Shepard, so how did he magically beam aboard the Normandy escaping whatever killed everyone else? Is this a bug in the game? Because it can't be intended to happen this way.

[bpzrn]

Craven1138 wrote...

Hey there Michael Gamble

I must say it must be hard to see all this negativity. I may even feel sorry for you, since ME3 without last 5 minutes is absolutely best part of trilogy and that’s an incredible thing to achieve. But I hope you understand how it feels if after nearly 150 hours (whole trilogy, without replays) of awesome, immersive gameplay finale is disappointing.

What I want to do is to keep this post short and as informative as possible. My point is to gather short overview of issues with ending, so that it’s not as messy as this hyper-active forum. I feel that some viewpoints are easily lost, and I really hope at some point we will get some kind of response. And when that time comes it would be bad if only thing that would be addressed would be “whiners want rainbows and unicorns ending”. While this may be true (I myself would like to have Hollywood-style happy end), there are more points.

So here it comes:

PLOT:
Most obvious set of issues, but also probably hardest one, as there’s certain vision writers came up with, and there ain’t much that can be done, unless finale is rewritten (dark energy thing is great, too bad it was abandoned as it would fit very well). Catalyst seems to be most hate-inducting aspect, probably because of his disregard for our actions.
There is strong feeling of detachement between ending and whole trilogy. Some even say " feels like an ending to another game that someone grabbed and pasted onto this one."
Also multiple plotholes and possible plotholes have been pointed out - unexplanatory escape of Normandy during battle, unexplanatory presence of teammates that should be with you or dead due to Harbinger ray on Normandy contradictory nature and logic of Catalyst, fact that Citadel/Catalyst is alive and concious and needs keepers to let reapers in, what's the point of dropping normandy on planet when it's more than likely it's a slow death for them?

update: Some users would be fine with no explanation for reapers (I like it too, it holds well with ME1 where Sovereign simply said reapers are beyond mortal comprehension). Other users say that problem with ending is lack of enough explanation and closure.
update2: Also some users would like to have "reapers win" ending (me too, makes sense), if you perform poorly galaxy will just have to try again in next cycle (imagine evolved Pyjacks ).
update3: One more issue - finale brutally narrows premise of series as simply conflict between organics and synthethics. There is much more to Mass Effect then this.

CHOICES:
Best thing about Mass Effect trilogy was that we could really make choices that mattered. And that those choices had impact on game, you guys made sure that even small quests or events were reflected later. But in final 5 minutes it turns out to be pointless. It may seem like multiple ends, but actually they are very similar and not affected by your previous choices. ME3 gives strong arguments for Catalyst/ShinyKid that he’s plain wrong and conflict can be avoided, but it’s all for nothing.

I wanted to keep this short but I just must elaborate. I guess you went through hell to make sure that ME3 works with all those variables from ME2 and ME1. And now, when everything is about to end, when you don’t have to worry about next sequel, you could let player go any direction he wanted. “Decide how it ends” wasn’t it? So why force us to destroy Mass Relays? Why condemn hero to die, why separated families, why dark age for galaxy

update: " I wouldn't mind a sacrifice ending for shepard. What I want is to be able to CHOOSE that ending"
update2: In short: We want our previous choices to have impact.

HAPPY ENDING / VARIOUS ENDINGS:
ME (especially ME3) is very dark story, but still that doesn’t mean there can’t be happy ending. And even with one, galaxy is still mostly in ashes, with dead kids, torn families, lost loved ones, for Shepard - Anderson dead, some other friends dead (Mordin, Thane, Legion). I’d say it still would be pretty grim.

Problem many people point out is that endings are just too similar. Even to point where flashbacks don’t show your love interest.

update: we don't want destruction of Relays or Shepard's death removed. We just want this to be possibilities. Next to other ones, where Reapers win/loose, relays stay, next cycle comes and so on...

GAMEPLAY:
Trying to be objective, but this one I’m least sympathetic. But there it is - there are complaints to lack of boss. Harbinger was heavily foreshadowed as main villain, so many expected some kind of confrontation, a shooting finale of some kind or another boss-thing. This leads to…

PERFORMANCE:
It’s kinda letdown that readiness has so little visible impact. Unlike upgrades to Normandy from ME2. I really expected little scenes showing some of key assets fighting. Little snippet showing Krogan making ground fight easier, or part where we see orbital fight with Turians, and depending on how strong they were they’d either get pounded totally, or just a little. It could also impact on scenes involving clash with Harbringer. Right now it really doesn’t feel much connected to outcome.

update: we expect small cutscenes showing if we had enough war assets, kinda ME2 style, where we see outcome of our effort to prepare fleets against reapers. Confrontation with Harbinger could fit right here so that he's not a lost villan.


Sorry for making this so long, but I really feel it would be great if, once issue of ending is addressed, it would be great to address whole set of complaints.


To other users: if you like this „list”, then please bump to keep it alive. I’m open to editing opening post if I missed something.

PS. Tartilus wrote very good list of his own here.

I dont think they care or are reading any of the issues the customers are raiseing

[Lazarus Cricket]

If the catalyst has the power of green magic which turns eveyone ino the borg. Why even build reapers, why not just do that? What, the death lazer could only be powered by shepards death and gamer rage? Who would willing jump on a death lazer, shoot an explosive metal tube at 5 meters, or grab some exposed wires because someone you don't know says its a good idea? None of those endings were heroic, you just obey the mass-murdering enemy, pick your poison, and doom everybody. I'd rather have laid down and bled out then submit to the enemy.
Strangely enough, because of the Child's Play charity donation drive, I'm glad bioware messed this up. I hadn't given to charity for a while and giving did help me feel better, forgot how good that feels not being wrapped up in solely your own greivances and to remember to help others (My thanks to whoever started it and the people who run such organizations. check it out if you can spare some). It also reminded me that the best way to deal with negative energy is to try and do something good with it, if more grievences involved charity drives I think the world would be a little better, its a better real life ending, something people should consider doing again without greivance(I'm sure they are, if they don't already, or needed a reminder like me), wouldn't have happened like that if everything went smoothly... I'm still ****ing about the ending and not giving anything to bioware until they fix this however.
I hope they understand people are this upset because the story was such a good escape from day to day struggles and to do something like this at the end, as if we needed a lesson in pain. I still have pieces of shrapnel in my rear end, I don't need some smug game company's suit telling me I need to learn life is tough and not disneyland at the end of an escapist sci-fi fantasy game thats supposed to be about a hero overcoming the odds, unifying the galaxy, and choosing how you do it. Is that how little they think of their audience?
Did they forget why we as a society tell stories about heroes? I'll give them a clue, its not about some kind of cheap twist ending. Society values justice and heroism, I think that is what is core to this kind of story, it's why we tell them, where was that at the end?
Also some closure at a personal level with the characters we grew to like would be nice, not some big picture of an exploding galaxy. When you think about if a battle was worth it, you think about familiar faces and voices, not a bunch of stars, not a far away view of the planet, but about people you care about.
Alright, I feel I vented enough now, I think I'm veering off topic anyway.

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 14 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[That EMT 5410]

I also disliked how even though I made the effort to get the Rachni and Geth on my side they both had zero appearances in the final push for earth aside from Joker saying the Geth fleet was present. I would really have loved to have watched how the Rachni would have fought against the Reapers.

Modifié par That EMT 5410, 14 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Xenirax]

+1

[nomoredruggs]

Nice and comprehensible list, shame it's being burried at the moment.

I truly wanted a happy  ending with Shep, LI and most squad surviving aswell, but I think what irks me the most is this final normandy scene. I can't stomach it.

Modifié par nomoredruggs, 14 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[buchoi]

I like both Craven and Tartilus lists and agree with most everything the thing that rubs the salt in the wound for me are quotes/expectations given that make the endings even harder to accept:

http://i.imgur.com/xUq9t.png
"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C."-Casey Hudson
http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…"-Mike Gamble.

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

"Now, BioWare Co-Founder Dr. Ray Muzyka has talked about the ending, saying that “Pretty much everything that people want to see wrapped up, or to be given answers, will be.”
http://news.softpedi...ys-255935.shtml

I have posted this elsewhere but I hope it finds a few more eyes.

[Craven1138]

Yeah, it's sad. And it's not just the lies, most horrible thing is not that ending is crappy, but that it manages to taint whole trilogy. I think human-reaper was silly and final fight was lame. But that's just few minutes of ME2. It never lowered my opinion on ME2 as whole. But ending of ME3 certainly does that.

Sorry I didn't re-edit op still, but really after reading today's Casey Hudson words I feel like it's banging head against wall.

BioWare probably isn't interested in arguments or what tens of thousands of their fans think.

Modifié par Craven1138, 14 mars 2012 - 07:46 .

[darthoptimus003]

bump
i think this is the best tread yet
my problem is damn near evrything said so far but the whole multiplayer aspect i cant stand
i thought it was said that multiplayer WOULD NOT compermise single player but that is not the case
there is alot about the ending id like to say but everyone one hear has already said it
thanks bw for a good 95% epic game now just fix the other 5% and everything will be all good again in the me family just hope yall listen

[WardyLion]

I agree that the ending basically throws all that effort down the lavatory and gives us no closure at all. A lot of intelligent words have been written on why it's so wrong but, and I might just be being cynical here, how much are you betting that EA / BioWare's response to all this is to patronizingly tell us that we're all wrong because they say we are.

This is not going to go away, nor can I see it ending well, ironically!

[sombodysomone]

Bioware wanted this trilogy to be remembered and it will be.
Not as the greatest trilogy ever. As a hated one. The last ten minutes of ME3 undoes all of it.
The suit's of bio ware laugh and don't care because they are taking the money to the bank and by the time the company feels the effects of a very pissed of fanbase they'll be on their way out with a golden parachute.
I look at all three mass effect games I own and realize how much time I felt I've wasted on multiple play throughs because of false promises and false advertisement of what has been said about this game.
The absolute worst part about it all.
Even if bioware does the right thing and makes proper endings. I've lost the excitement I had for this game.
Skyrim had a better ending than ME3. How did a game that practically has no ending make me feel appreciation for the title vs a game that I've been faithfully following and playing for years accomplish that?

[sombodysomone]

qoutes from the ME director.

How closely do you keep track of the fan reaction when it comes to that kind of stuff?

Oh, we pay very close attention to it. It’s very important to us and we will always listen to feedback, interpret it and try and do the right thing by our fans...."

What are you most proud of with this third game in the franchise?

I think what I’m most proud of is that we’ve told a story that will be remembered. I think so much of what we set out to do was create something that would be a memorable experience for people that they would think about after they played it. There’s so much throwaway entertainment out there. I didn’t just want to make something that was essentially the videogame version of a popcorn movie. I wanted to make something huge and exciting and the biggest thing possible that felt like a blockbuster and had that big action science fiction feel."

You sir have epically failed, I feel like I just read responses from a politician.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I wish I could use Javik's sensing abilities on the Bioware staff right now.

[PaulMorningstar]

To all the creators of this game.

The ending of this game really sucks. You can see that all around the net, everywhere. And what saddens me most is that creators of this game think, that we are morons. That this is artistic, has depth and we will discuss it for ages. Well, maybe, but not in a positive way.

I agree with every problem found by people before me. I've just finished the game and saw what the fuss is all about. I've taken the poll, I've logged to forum to say what must be said, perhaps hoping that it will bring something good (DLC or correction of the finale). 43000 people in the poll say that this ending is awful. Only 1000 thinks its okay. How many non-English users are playing the game around the world and don't have a place to say their opinion?

Who wrote that ending? Who said it is okay? I have no idea, but you should reconsider his involvement in future productions. Because this means he doesn't know a thing about creating a story.
Ending is about the problem of A.I - that creations will always fight their masters and will destroy them. Where is the introduction to this theme? Not in the "promise" of a story - first part (ME1) is a conflict with a a unknown race, most definitely not in ME2. ME3 starts with a military conflict, the battle, desperation and the idea of uniting the whole galaxy to archive peace. Every story, sorry - good story, begins with a promise. And this A.I vs organic life problem is barely mentioned across the whole series. Few talks with EDI, few with Legion. And suddenly in the end this is the most important thing? Oh please. IT'S IN THE HANDBOOKS ABOUT PLOTS!!!
Every ending needs to close the stories about all important characters. That is obvious and as many pointed out - nothing like this happens. Few sentences, like those that open every game would suffice. Few scenes, to make clear what happened to those running beside you, what happened to those on battlefields. But there is nothing like that.
And then there is delivering the promise, but if the ending is about something different from the beginning of this game and entire series, you cannot deliver it. Even just before the last scenes there is a question why it is important for you to go and stop the Reapers. And you can answer to EDI it is because of the people or to destroy them. One way or the other - it is about you companions and all the characters you fought along and for them. And then they are just some flicks of memory in every ending, but the choice you are making is not based on anything connected with them. You are making a choice based only on vague information from a machine.

And problem is that you treat us, gamers and fans, like morons who don't know bad ending form the good one. We seen a lot of them, we read a lot of them. We are sci-fi fans, most of us. There are gamers, of course, too who just like the game. But you act like we don't know the thing or two about this genre. And then we read something like this:

"I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in. That to me is part of what’s exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people can talk about after the fact."

There is no polarizing reaction, there is no debating. People agree on that. And there is a hope that you will see it. On one of the forums I've read the opinion "The funniest thing is that people still believe that this ending is a mistake and they (BioWare) will fix it. This shows how good fans they have - even in the face of a crap like this."

Be the firs ones to correct the ending of their game for your fans. This is the great thing about games - you can fix them. It is not TV-series or book. No one else done it. But you can. There is at least 1% of buyers voting in the poll, but it is easy to see that there are others around the world - 10% perhaps - maybe more. They will download the update and will even pay for it. I think it is wort of correcting the 10 minutes of a game that you've spent at least 5 years creating.

[hammerfan]

How this ending felt:  public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7bjQITNNdNrNFLEVdCzfm-D0Xy9CpLoSJZz1xaoHHpNNt7eQfguSuVixBN5l4iy6pcr5qbPiG0rM2T_9YW63qQ/me3Decisions.jpg

[sombodysomone]

Hope bioware see's this meme.
knowyourmeme.com/photos/268122-mass-effect-3-endings-reception

Modifié par sombodysomone, 16 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[Sparkifi]

Well it's a good thing That the developers are the one who decide how the game playes out. Fans can't "Demand" an ending be changed. All this petition crap to change said endings are crap. That's not how art works. If people don't like it, let them make a game themselves, then they can make it in their own image.

[Foxcat]

I agree with the OP

[Foxcat]

Modifié par Foxcat, 17 mars 2012 - 07:34 .

[Craven1138]

Sparkifi wrote...

Well it's a good thing That the developers are the one who decide how the game playes out. Fans can't "Demand" an ending be changed. All this petition crap to change said endings are crap. That's not how art works. If people don't like it, let them make a game themselves, then they can make it in their own image.

You're outright wrong. It's business not art. And if they come to conclusion that changing ending will be good for business they will do it.

[Sparkifi]

[quote]Craven1138 wrote...

[quote]Sparkifi wrote...

Well it's a good thing That the developers are the one who decide how the game playes out. Fans can't "Demand" an ending be changed. All this petition crap to change said endings are crap. That's not how art works. If people don't like it, let them make a game themselves, then they can make it in their own image.
[/quote]

You're outright wrong. It's business not art. And if they come to conclusion that changing ending will be good for business they will do it.

It's still their overall choice. Regardless if it's motivated by art or by business they're still the creators. If I write a story, and people leagally force me to rewite my work, for what ever reason, is crap.  They have no right to force me, or any other group of people to do something because they were not pleased.

[Craven1138]

You should know that fans can't legally force BioWare to do anything.
We're clients and we're expressing what we want. It's up to them to decide if they want to do what people paying them want. With all consequences in either case. Simple as that.

[Craven1138]

OK.

COLLOSAL thanks to everyone who helped, contributed or just bumped this thread. Opening post went through final edition. It's now hopefully short as possible and comprehensible list of issues fanst of Mass Effect trilogy have with endings.

Thanks for support and keep it up!

[CHRIS GRISS3L]

There should be at least one happy ending where Shepard marries his LI or something like that. Or Shepard and Garrus/ Squad on a beach or something. These endings should not be easy to get though. Blue babies with Liara would be cool.

[Amdor]

Great work everyone - specially Craven. Hope for best.