31 réponses à ce sujet

[Chief Martini]

 For long I've strayed away from this community for many reasons.
But after finishing Mass Effect 3, its ending has guided me back upon the path to making this very thread.



Let's start with the 'happiness' factor of the endings. Neither endings satisfied most of the players emotionally. In easier terms; No one looked at the ending with a smile and though "Alas, my Shepard is happy and the galaxy is saved'". Now of course an ending in which the reapers are destroyed, galactic life prevails and your Shepard stands on the balcony of his retirement home, Love Interest by their side. But does that make it less satisfactionary? No.

Of course, 'satisfactionary' is subjective. It differs with everyone. The one player wants his Shepard to die a hero, the other wants him to live the rest of his days in peace and in love. This is exactly what the very concept of 'multiple endings' exists of. However, it wasn't used correctly. It didn't cover everyone's (or at least close to everyone's) imaginations of a 'good' ending. There weren't multiple choices and sides to the end of the galactic conflict; There was only one 'theme'; Sadness and sorrow. Death and decay. How did you feel when Shepard, dead or alive, was separated from the ones he called friends and the one he called love? When all the technology, mass relays and synthethics, were wiped from existance? The very tools that made Mass Effect into Mass Effect destroyed? Were you one of the people who thought it was perfect, a realistic and mind-swaying ending like it should be? Well, lucky you. Sadly, you're a massive minority here in the Bioware community. In fact, over 90% of the Bioware Players disagree with you. But that's okay, we're happy for you. 

But to you who believe the ending was too sad; That the ending should've had happiness and love: I'm with you. And I don't want anyone spewing the words "Can't have it both ways", when we clearly can. There could've been so many endings in relation to the so many choices you've made in the previous games and the current one. Why not have both? Why not make everyone, or at least close to everyone, happy? That's the question I'm asking you here, Bioware. The question we're all asking you;




Why could we not have had multiple endings, some happy and some sad? Some resulting in reunity with Shepard's loved ones and some resulting in sacrifice?




Luckily it's not too late. For this can still be fixed; This huge amount of community-wide sorrow can still be swayed into a good thing; A massive consensus of the community assisting the developers in providing additional patch-like endings.



Why, you ask? To end this amazing journey with more fitting conclusions. To grant each and every mass effect player the chance to end Shepard's story the way they want to. To crawl closer to their preferred ending. To end this emotional and literature-worthy story properly for everyone; Every player who bought their first Mass Effect game and thought 'huh, cool', only to end up being more emotionally attached than ever before to a game- No, not a game; A tale, and the most amazing one to have ever flown through my veins at that.



Why not, you ask? To be honest, I truly do not know. The only one who would be able to answer this is Bioware, and frankly; I request and advise them to go into discussion with us; The community. To work together and form a solution instead of thousands of threads, filled with hungry fans craving for a true ending to their journey, cluttering this forum.




Come on, Bioware. Let's end the most amazing gaming trilogy to have ever been acknowledged by mankind; Properly.

-Chief

Modifié par Chief Martini, 10 mars 2012 - 09:23 .

[Spectre_Shepard]

seconded

[rogueagent6]

Agreed.

[BrotherFluffy]

Fourthed.

[Fjordgnu]

The trouble with the ending isn't that it's too sad. You know who knew how to write a sad ending? Ernest Hemingway. A Farewell to Arms is the most gut-wrenchingly sad book I ever read, and despite that, I love it.

The trouble with the endings is that they're cheap: instead of trying to make you feel something by seeing the consequences the Reaper invasion has for the entire galaxy, they force you to feel sad by killing Shepard and isolating the characters you care about, probably dooming them.

It's that they're abrupt, unexpected, bordering on nonsensical. What sort of technology can disable all synthetics? Where is the line between synthetic life, organic life, and synthetic non-life drawn? What exactly happens in the middle ending, why are the relays destroyed, and how is it supposed to help that all those clusters of stars are now isolated, with billions of people doomed to die or return to a technological stone age? For the paragon ending, why is that a good option? You know what I'd do if I could control the Reapers? I'd feed them to the nearest sun. One after the other, I'd just fly them into a star. That way, everyone's happy. Except Shepard. He's gone. See the paragraph above for why that choice is cheap.

But, you know, I have a solution.

Because you know what my first thought was when the Reaper beam hit? You know what I expected? I expected a dream-like sequence, where Shepard would gaze around in a shell-shocked fashion at a hallucination of a world wherein they fail, where the Reapers win and everyone dies. Then I expected things to return to normal, with Shepard and all the rest storming the Citadel.

Now, everyone knows that "it was all a dream" is a cheap literary "device" ( and I use that term very loosely ), but it is one way in which the story can be rewritten in a way that doesn't completely discard the current ending. Because if there is to be a different ending, it too would have to respect the rules of storytelling and be consistent with the situation at that time.

[chosen_trekie]

right on

[Awoken Eyes]

Chief Martini wrote...

Every player who bought their first Mass Effect game and thought 'huh, cool', only to end up being more emotionally attached than ever before to a game- No, not a game; A tale, and the most amazing one to have ever flown through my veins at that.

Mass Effect is like a book, or books in this case. And well written ones. Well... That is, if you leave out the disappointed ending of ME3.

[PraetorianGuard]

What ending?

[nitefyre410]

Agreed...

if they went with a heroic sacrifice and touching good bye to LI and best friend looking up and Reapers fall or fly off with a whisper of thank you as around the galaxy people rejoice. After all the we see all companions moving forward finding the happiness and building there own future. Like Legion said in ME 2. We have Shepard with the star kid in the park from the dreams. This time green and lush full of life. The Star kid ask if this is right solution? Shepard answering along lines. Maybe but they deserve a chance to find out and make the choice themselves... in there hands now.

instead we get some stupid universal reset button.. .that conveys absolutely nothing and strips the meaning from everything... so SMH.

[Chief Martini]

Fjordgnu wrote...

The trouble with the ending isn't that it's too sad. You know who knew how to write a sad ending? Ernest Hemingway. A Farewell to Arms is the most gut-wrenchingly sad book I ever read, and despite that, I love it.

The trouble with the endings is that they're cheap: instead of trying to make you feel something by seeing the consequences the Reaper invasion has for the entire galaxy, they force you to feel sad by killing Shepard and isolating the characters you care about, probably dooming them.

It's that they're abrupt, unexpected, bordering on nonsensical. What sort of technology can disable all synthetics? Where is the line between synthetic life, organic life, and synthetic non-life drawn? What exactly happens in the middle ending, why are the relays destroyed, and how is it supposed to help that all those clusters of stars are now isolated, with billions of people doomed to die or return to a technological stone age? For the paragon ending, why is that a good option? You know what I'd do if I could control the Reapers? I'd feed them to the nearest sun. One after the other, I'd just fly them into a star. That way, everyone's happy. Except Shepard. He's gone. See the paragraph above for why that choice is cheap.

But, you know, I have a solution.

Because you know what my first thought was when the Reaper beam hit? You know what I expected? I expected a dream-like sequence, where Shepard would gaze around in a shell-shocked fashion at a hallucination of a world wherein they fail, where the Reapers win and everyone dies. Then I expected things to return to normal, with Shepard and all the rest storming the Citadel.

Now, everyone knows that "it was all a dream" is a cheap literary "device" ( and I use that term very loosely ), but it is one way in which the story can be rewritten in a way that doesn't completely discard the current ending. Because if there is to be a different ending, it too would have to respect the rules of storytelling and be consistent with the situation at that time.

Well-said, comrade.

In all fairness; I actually enjoyed all the sacrifices; Thane, Miranda, Legion, you name them. They made me feel emotionally attached, but in a good way. They made me think about things. Their passings were said, but it felt as if they'd been -and still are part of something bigger. As if they played their part and added their piece of the mass effect puzzle.

The ending (read: One of the additional endings) should be just like that. Sacrifices made and remembered, but specific things left untouched, such as Shepard's closest friends and love interest. An ending with hope; A reunited family. Read my original post for what I mean by that.

Awoken Eyes wrote...

Chief Martini wrote...

Every player who bought their first Mass Effect game and thought 'huh, cool', only to end up being more emotionally attached than ever before to a game- No, not a game; A tale, and the most amazing one to have ever flown through my veins at that.

Mass Effect is like a book, or books in this case. And well written ones. Well... That is, if you leave out the disappointed ending of ME3.

 

Precisely. It's more than just a game, and it deserves more than just a limited armament of lousy endings.

PraetorianGuard wrote...

What ending?

 

I see what you did there, I suppose.

Modifié par Chief Martini, 10 mars 2012 - 09:43 .

[Adacas]

According to this poll http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989 only about 3% of players are 100% fine with how it turned out.

That should say something.

As for me its been 2 days since I finished the game. Still depressed still sad.

fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it.... fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it

Modifié par Adacas, 10 mars 2012 - 09:48 .

[Chief Martini]

Quite the evidence, although we should wait for more people to fill it in.

However, if you look over the poll board you'll find dozens of polls exactly like that one. They all basically have the same results, so that does mean something indeed.

[Fjordgnu]

Chief Martini wrote...
In all fairness; I actually enjoyed all the sacrifices; Thane, Miranda, Legion, you name them. They made me feel emotionally attached, but in a good way. They made me think about things. Their passings were said, but it felt as if they'd been -and still are part of something bigger. As if they played their part and added their piece of the mass effect puzzle.

Yeah, all of those ... well, Miranda died? In my game she didn't, but that's beside the point: the sacrifices of those other characters worked because they made sense ( think of how it would be if, for instance, Mordin had died just because ... it was "something he had to do", even if him dying wasn't necessary, as it was in the game ), and they actually accomplished something.

The only reason Shepard dies, I would argue, is so we'll feel something. It's crude. Shepard surviving and ( literally or metaphorically ) climbing onto the rubble to look out at a galaxy free from the Reapers might be a happier ending, and happy endings aren't necessarily a good thing, but I think that would be a better ending. If they'd employed a little more subtlety, they could've created an ending with more emotional impact, that made more sense, that still involved a large measure of sacrifice, but which also gave you some hope.

I think, in a sense, I should be offended. It seems Bioware thinks I lack empathy, and that the billions or trillions who have died already won't be enough to give me pause. They couldn't be more wrong. I mean, which has more emotional impact: the Normandy memorial wall, or Shepard diving into a green beam?

For a game so focused on sacrifices large and small, they sure don't seem to trust in their own ability to make us feel something without being bludgeoned in the face with it.

[Chief Martini]

I'd like to personally thank Jessica Merizan for actually giving us some hope with her recent tweets. Thank you, Miss Merizan.

https://twitter.com/.../JessicaMerizan

Fjordgnu wrote...

Chief Martini wrote...
In all fairness; I actually enjoyed all the sacrifices; Thane, Miranda, Legion, you name them. They made me feel emotionally attached, but in a good way. They made me think about things. Their passings were said, but it felt as if they'd been -and still are part of something bigger. As if they played their part and added their piece of the mass effect puzzle.

Yeah, all of those ... well, Miranda died? In my game she didn't, but that's beside the point: the sacrifices of those other characters worked because they made sense ( think of how it would be if, for instance, Mordin had died just because ... it was "something he had to do", even if him dying wasn't necessary, as it was in the game ), and they actually accomplished something.

The only reason Shepard dies, I would argue, is so we'll feel something. It's crude. Shepard surviving and ( literally or metaphorically ) climbing onto the rubble to look out at a galaxy free from the Reapers might be a happier ending, and happy endings aren't necessarily a good thing, but I think that would be a better ending. If they'd employed a little more subtlety, they could've created an ending with more emotional impact, that made more sense, that still involved a large measure of sacrifice, but which also gave you some hope.

I think, in a sense, I should be offended. It seems Bioware thinks I lack empathy, and that the billions or trillions who have died already won't be enough to give me pause. They couldn't be more wrong. I mean, which has more emotional impact: the Normandy memorial wall, or Shepard diving into a green beam?

For a game so focused on sacrifices large and small, they sure don't seem to trust in their own ability to make us feel something without being bludgeoned in the face with it.

An interesting way to look at it.





Also;


Please keep in mind that I'm not bashing. I absolutely loved the game, minus the ending. Although of course no final game in the trilogy of mass effect could ever be enough, Bioware did a very, very good job at at least capturing most of the things we wanted to see. Amazing job, Bioware. Don't take this the wrong way.

Modifié par Chief Martini, 10 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[starscreamerx31]

yep i couldn't agree more. Please provide more DLC based endings to correct the wrong that us fans feel has been made.

[Umbrellamage]

 I typed up something long last night.


While I appreciate endings that allow the hero the option to sacrifice himself to save and uplift others, when that ending is the only option it just feels uncreative and forced.  While people railed against Eidos Montreal for the pick your own ending in Deus Ex HR, they really did it right in comparison.  Three distinct options that shape the course of history, with an extra fourth offering the chance to step back from history and let it shape itself.  These endings come with their own narration and individual video montages.  By comparison, the ME3 endings are copied and pasted with a different color tint applied to each.  It's that lack of attention to detail that irks me.

Let's also say that attention to detail starts to go downhill drastically in the final space battle sequences, where regardless of what forces you recruit, only the humans and turians are actually shown in battle, and the asari to a limited extent.  The geth/quarians get an introduction but aren't actually seen fighting.  In fact just before the battle started I had the feeling that this was going to be glorious, something to put the battle of the citadel in ME1 to shame.  But when it cut to shepard going down to join the ground forces I thought "is that it?"  Hell even the normandy's approach to the collector base in ME2 was more exciting.  Sure it's too much to expect every ship represented and inserted dynamically based on whatever flags you may trigger, but I don't think it's too much to ask that the major forces actually be represented in the climactic final battle and see them contribute.

This disappointment carried over to the end sequence.  All of this ramping up through three games, all of these choices I've made in attempt to shape different endings, all blocked by a god child.  I took my time collecting every asset I could with the expectation that like ME2, preparedness would significantly alter the ending.  

Nope...

Again I entirely appreciate the three endings offered, they're poetic, tragic, and appropriate.  However it would also have been appropriate for the endings to differ a bit more for those who collected every asset they could along the way and give the chance for a good ending in which shepard doesn't have to sacrifice himself, an ending in which the unified galaxy hands the reapers their own squid heads on a platter, crucible be damned...

The reason I say this is that it would offer an ending comparable to ME2, and the battle of the citadel in ME1, exhilarating and action packed, while the ultimate conclusion would differ based on fleet strength.  I've completed ME2 two dozen times if not more just because I love the ending, that feel of shepard against everything and coming out on top unscathed is just exhilarating every single time.  I can't see myself replaying through ME3 very much if at all, it's far too emotionally draining.  I love it, I loved every tearjerking and heartwrenching conversation up until the end,  I damn near cried in the conversation with Garrus before the final battle, but I only loved it because I had the feeling that Shepard wasn't going to have to sacrifice himself in every ending because of some god child's apparent inability to look out the window and see that synthetics and organics (if you united the Quarians and Geth) are fighting together for a common future.

I appreciate that games are art just like cinema.  But games are also a form of entertainment that we repeatedly play for years.  We had 5 years to get invested in the universe and the characters.  After 5 years anyone with any sort of ability to feel emotion is going to care about even the most obscure characters, the Krogan love poet for instance (these little gems of sadness are handled perfectly in ME3).  Dark endings are entirely fine in these circumstances, but only if they provide some sense of closure, which the three currently offered endings do not.  Do they succeed on the art front?  Yes, in fact if Mass Effect was a movie trilogy any of the endings would be perfect.  However they just do not work for a game series that supposedly is all about choices and the consequences of those choices.  

Modifié par Umbrellamage, 10 mars 2012 - 10:17 .

[Sorayai]

yea agreed, I want more endings. a happy one!

[Chief Martini]

Well said, Umbrella. Just don't forget that not only should the tragic endings have a sense of closure, but there should be additional endings with a more 'happier' theme to them.

[Leonmp82]

I want an endings DIFFERENT, i want to see shepard´s smile near ashley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **** this ending!!!! To many decissions for nothing! I´m so pissed of!!!!!!! BIOWARE... it´s seems to me, that you don´t have enough time to finish the game, that you make one in a hurry. I hope... no, better I NEED another ending!

[Chief Martini]

Another thing I'd like to add; Too many questions. The ending had to be longer and more explanitory instead of vague. It has to show bits and pieces of what happens afterwards; The consequences. What happens to everyone. Maybe even a little gameplay part where you play post-ending. Like, for instance, walk around your retirement home with your Love Interest. Just an idea.

Either way time should be taken on a proper and long ending. Not just a minute-long. For all I care it should be 30 minutes long.

[Apocsapel91]

I think the name of one of the albums by Faunts expresses my feelings about ME3's ending perfectly.

High Expectations/Low Results

[Chief Martini]

Listening to Faust as I'm cruising the forums.

Michael Gamble is now listening, apparently. I believe Bioware is considering their options at the moment. Or well, I hope so.

[thesnake777]

Agreed OP

[Chief Martini]

thesnake777 wrote...

Agreed OP

Thanks.

[Nightshade386]

I agree. Completely. This was my favorite game ever. Until the last 10 minutes. Then the game forgets what it is and become Deus Ex. I can understand how some people might like that. But I want to stumble out of the Citadel with Ashley supporting me, like John McClain in Die Hard. Maybe even let her punch a sensationalist journalist in the face for me. That's the tone the entire series took. That there's hope. That against all odds, we can win. Where did THAT go at the end?

Modifié par Nightshade386, 10 mars 2012 - 11:26 .