80 réponses à ce sujet

[BigKevSexyMan]

It's probably both, but I can't remember her saying anything bad about the maker specifically, mostly just the chantry laws.  Maybe I missed something, but if anyone could shed some light on the issue, then I'd appreciate it.

[Bluesmith]

It seems that she doesn't believe in the Maker, and that she despises the Circle Mages for their docility more than she does the Chantry for its oppression (although she certainly does dislike the Chantry).

[Cuuniyevo]

In brief: She hates the Chantry because the Chantry sends Templars out to kill Apostates and she is considered an Apostate and doesn't want to be killed. She has no particular opinion on the subject of the Maker or the Chantry's idealogy.

[The Angry One]

Yeah she doesn't acknowledge the Maker's existance at all.

Possibly the only smart point of view she'll ever have.

[BigKevSexyMan]

Are you sure she doesn't believe in the maker? Given the dragon age world, and especially the existence of the ashes it would be hard to make a case against there being a maker?

She has no particular opinion on the subject of the Maker or the Chantry's idealogy.

Actually, she does say something along the lines of "Is there no religion that doesn't feed off of past mistakes?" when in the temple of the ashes.

Modifié par BigKevSexyMan, 27 novembre 2009 - 02:58 .

[Bluesmith]

BigKevSexyMan wrote...

Are you sure she doesn't believe in the maker? Given the dragon age world, and especially the existence of the ashes it would be hard to make a case against there being a maker?

She says as much to Leliana during one of their bantering sessions.

There really is no hard evidence suggesting the Maker's existence. In a world with magic and demons, there are a number of non-religious explanations for the healing powers of "Andraste's" Ashes, among other things.

[The Angry One]

BigKevSexyMan wrote...

Are you sure she doesn't believe in the maker? Given the dragon age world, and especially the existence of the ashes it would be hard to make a case against there being a maker?

This is sort of the argument Leliana makes, and it's bunk.
Magic and mystic events don't presuppose the existance of any creator, especially not the nebulous, absent and inscrutable "Maker".
The ashes could very well be the ashes of a crazy mage lady who did too much Lyrium.

... which makes me wonder if we could achieve the same effect by burning Sandal.
Bottled Sandal ashes anyone? Cures what ailes ya.

Actually, she does say something along the lines of "Is there no religion that doesn't feed off of past mistakes?" when in the temple of the ashes.

It's closer to "Is there no religion that doesn't feed off guilt like a glutton at a banquet?"

[BigKevSexyMan]

... which makes me wonder if we could achieve the same effect by burning Sandal.

Bottled Sandal ashes anyone? Cures what ailes ya.

Lol, Bottled Sandal would have you tweaking out for weeks

[The Angry One]

BigKevSexyMan wrote...

... which makes me wonder if we could achieve the same effect by burning Sandal.
Bottled Sandal ashes anyone? Cures what ailes ya.

Lol, Bottled Sandal would have you tweaking out for weeks

I don't know, Sandal sounds like a safer bet than some nut who thought the creator of all things wanted to have sex with her.

[ReubenLiew]

Morrigan doesn't believe in the Maker, she said as much during a party banter with Leliana. She probably dislikes the Chantry because they believe in a God she doesn't think exists, and therefore are summarized alongside with lunatics.

[DalishRanger]

Just as the others mentioned, Morrigan does state in at least one banter that she doesn't believe in the Maker. She doesn't really comment much on him other than that, in my experience.



As for Andraste's Ashes, Oghren offers an alternative explanation if you bring him along; I forget the exact wording, but he mentions there are HUGE lyrium deposits in the caverns, and that they're "affecting everything"; so, it's possible the Urn is powerful because of lyrium exposure. Or, it could actually be holy. Either way, there's still no solid proof for the Maker's existence.

[ReubenLiew]

Well, with Andraste's ashes we can at least CONFIRM that SHE is real, somewhat. However people tend to see that as proof that the Maker also exists since she does, although that's faulty reasoning, but what're ya gonna do, they're peasants

[The Angry One]

Well I suppose it's similar to real life. Proof of Jesus does not = proof of God however much wishful thinkers deem it so.

And at least DA has ashes. Then again they could be anyone's ashes. But even if they're 100% Andraste's it doesn't mean much.

[scrimex]

She doesn't believe in the maker so how could she hate something that doesn't exist? Her hatred of the chantry has more to do with female circumcision than anything else.....

[ReubenLiew]

Wait what? What female circumcision are we talking about here? Did you mean oaths of chastity or was there an actual codex entry about priestesses getting circumcision?

[scrimex]

no codex entry just a reality twist!

[Silensfurtim]

[The Angry One]

Heh!

[ReubenLiew]

Silensfurtim wrote...

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[Rhys Cordelle]

"In brief: She hates the Chantry because the Chantry sends Templars out to kill Apostates and she is considered an Apostate and doesn't want to be killed. She has no particular opinion on the subject of the Maker or the Chantry's idealogy."



This is totally false. She openly mocks their failed attempts at attacking herself and Flemmeth, and when you say that they got what they deserve (meaning the templars) she says that she doesn't begrudge them doing what they think is right.



Her reasons for opposing the Chantry are that she thinks its claims are false and its followers are sheep.



Magic, to them, is an innate part of their reality. Morrigan sees no reason to conclude that it must have been created.

[thedanishboy]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

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[Alex Savchovsky]

BigKevSexyMan wrote...

Are you sure she doesn't believe in the maker? Given the dragon age world, and especially the existence of the ashes it would be hard to make a case against there being a maker?

Andraste was a living person, however. And in one magical world such as this, there can be a number of explanations about their powers even without a Maker. So I think it's ok not to believe. And besides, the Chantry is so blind and self-righteous, it just HAS to be wrong.

[Domi-kuin]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Morrigan doesn't believe in the Maker, she said as much during a party banter with Leliana. She probably dislikes the Chantry because they believe in a God she doesn't think exists, and therefore are summarized alongside with lunatics.

she hates the chantry because they hunted her -.-

[Allattar1]

Not so much becuase they hunted her, its more like my feelings towards creationists (if writing anything so controversial is allowed). I dont want to elaborate here as it is not the place.



Lets put it this way, she as a Mage, is concerned that non-mages, with a religious and lack of understanding of magic are passing rules on what you can do with magic, and what is/is not safe. There whole belief structure is based off of, belief, no real logical understanding of the (in this case) magical reality that pervades them. Any reasoning for there beliefs they try to make is based off of half truths and twisted accounts. In some cases it is formed of downright lies.



I am trying not to be controversial here but if I cross the line please can someone tidy it up as I dont want to cause offence and I understand everyone has there own beliefs.



However one example I remember from University, was watching a christian documentary on why the world was only 6000 years old. They where talking physics, atmospheric and geology and so on. It did flow together, but even in my second year of my degree in Physics I could see glaring big holes in there work, that anyone who didnt understand the principles involved would never consider that this video was completely wrong.

There whole line of thought/argument to persuade anyone was based on false assumptions, I was rather horrified, and had a little chat with the CU guy .



Now I imagine that this is a similar scenario to how Morrigan feels about the chantry.

[dannythefool]

Yeah, how about you talk to her a bit? She explains that Flemeth used her as bait to lure templars hunting the two of them into her traps, among other things... she has all kinds of reasons to hate the Chantry, regardless of what she thinks of the Maker.