Alneverus wrote...
I feel up to playing the Devil's Advocate at the moment so I'll take up this challenge. And, I'll provide the possible proof to another theory for you with one prime example; Wynne. The player is told by the dear old woman that she was on the verge of death and was brought back by a spirit from the Fade. If I recall correctly a 'Spirit of Faith.
Now, what if Andraste had a similar case in which her body was inhabited by a 'Spirit of Faith'? Is it possible that she believed this to be the god that turned away from creation? Yes. Is it possible that her desire to free her people and bring out the fall of the Imperium by using such a power? Yes. In the beginning this Maker figure may very well be the exact same figure that ancient civilizations used to explain the creation of their world (speaking from a more scientific view of the 'pagan' pantheons). Much information was also lost during the First Blight since it lasted almost a century, thus the true appearance of the Darkspawn is simply stated through religious statements, much like the Dark Ages. Much like the knowledge lost when Rome fell in reality.
The game also offers the slight possibility with a gift that you can give to Wynne, in which the author discusses the possibility that Andraste herself was an extremely powerful mage.
But if someone like Wynne can tell the difference between a Fade Spirit and the Maker, I'm sure Andraste herself could as well. But in the game, we learn that Andraste believed there is a Maker.
As for the theory that the "Maker" that Andraste believed in was just a misunderstanding used to understand the world, but whose knowledge is lost, it's all too much speculation.
I can then go at length about whether or not the Spirit in Wynne is actually a very clever demon in disguise trying to misled the gamer into thinking it is actually a good spirit. And the demon actually controlled Wynne from the start to act all good. The Codex is wrong that there were only 5 types of demons, and the info about a sixth demon is lost during the First Blight. So how do we know whether the Spirit in Wynne is not really a demon? Yet people seem to accept it at face value that it really is a Spirit.
By doing this, what is real and what is not real becomes very muddled. If you are willing to accept Wynne's explanation that what is in here is a Spirit (and not something else), then you should also accept Andraste's account that she did speak to the Maker.
But it seems that for everything that point to the existence of the Maker, people like to speculate that maybe the information isn't correct, or there is an explanation for it that was lost in the Blight, Chantry propaganda, etc.
Yet for everything that argues AGAINST the existence of the Maker, people accept it at face value. For instance, the book about Andraste being just a really powerful mage. Maybe it's just something secretly made-up by a mage to undermine the Chantry's control of the Circle of Mages. I can easily say that too.
Now to the statement about the Ashes of Andraste. If the body was burnt at the stake, it is possible that she attempted to use the spirit to try and save herself, only to have depleted it and herself. Though the byproduct of their joining allows for residual magic to remain within the ashes. Be it a regeneration spell of a flat out healing spell. Abominations tend to explode in massive fireballs, but what is the effects of these 'benevolent' spirits that are in the body of a mage?
These sort of cases are far less known than an abomination as the game states that it is extremely rare for one of these spirits to leave the Fade unless summoned. But do these spirits perform such acts? Obviously they do if Wynne is walking around with one such spirit inside of her, as shown from the plot ability called 'Vessel of the Spirit'.
Also, I suspect when they burn someone alive they generally don't save the ashes and test them. For all that can be said the ashes of an Abomination may very well have other effects. Not to mention if the ashes were a byproduct of her devotion to the Maker how is it that a High Dragon's blood is enough to corrupt and destroy the effects? It is 'Godly', thus how can that even effect such a sacred treasure?
If the Ashes of Andraste were truly capable of such acts due to this affinity to the Maker then even a giant, old lizard's blood could not cancel their healing abilities out or change them completely. But from a union of spirit and mortal? It becomes far more possible that such an act could destroy such an artifact.
Again how do you know that the Spirit in Wynne is really a Spirit, but is not actually.... the Maker himself, gasp! This is what happens when you use speculation that cannot be backed up by things from the game. A lot of wild speculations can be made. I can then use this to prove that the Maker too exists. The Spirit was with Wynne just as it was with Andraste, and it is actually the Maker lending you His strength.
Again if the ashes of an abomination really had healing powers, the circle of Mages, who would have an abundant supply of abominations from apprentices who failed their Harrowings, would have discovered it. But it's all speculation and wild theories, until, there really is a case where ashes of an abomination or someone with the Spirit Wynne could cure Arl Eamon's disease. But there isn't. Only Andraste's ashes could cure Arl Eamon's disease where all other magic failed.
Finally your last point is valid because it really is from the game. But just because the Maker's power can be neutralised by the High Dragon's blood, doesn't mean there is no Maker. That would be akin to saying there is no Maker, because Andraste died and wasn't immortal, and the all-powerful Maker didn't prevent it from happening.
However, Andraste, known in-game as someone who is devoted to the Maker, whose ashes could cure Arl Eamon's illness when nothing else could, is convincing proof that it is a miraculous sign from the Maker.
Imagine if you are lying in bed and all the doctors in the world say you have a terminal disease that cannot be cured. Then suddenly a devout follower of the Maker came and healed you. Wouldn't you think that maybe, just maybe, it came from the Maker, seeing as it's a devout follower of the Maker that healed you?
Only in the game, there isn't someone who came to heal Arl Eamon, but the ashes of a devout follower. The evidence points more towards the Maker than anything else.
And that's the problem. How could you tell if something REALLY is from the Maker? You wouldn't know how to determine whether this is true.
Even if it isn't 100% proof for some people, right now it is a stronger argument that the miraculous healing power of the Andraste's ashes is from a Maker, thus he exists.
Retour en haut![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
When I go out in the streets, do I see people shouting ''there is no God''? Nope. Only groups of morons in dresses who bug innocent pedestrians.
