209 réponses à ce sujet

[cannedcream]

Varus Torvyn wrote...

Iron Ranger wrote...

Good write up, I think alot of us have woundered exactly how indoctrianted Shep might really be. Cant be too bad up to this point however as the Protien Decives keep working for him.

Disagree, I don't believe Shep is indoctrinated at all.

Vigil knew he wasn't, and Harbinger darn sure knew he wasn't, not to mention the Illusive Man.

He was not fully indoctronated then, maybe the seeds were there, but Shepard was fighting them off.

The final indoc push comes right there at the very end after he's been KOed one of those two suggested times.

[Kitten Tactics]

Mhgasa wrote...

Are you saying that mass effect 3 isnt done or the franchise? I think mass effect 3 and thereby shepards story is very much done, and thats why it wouldnt make any sense, to me atleast, to create a "fake" ending. Cant really close a story arc and at the same time say "hey, if you want to know what really happened then buy our next game".

In theory, dlc would allow for us to continue from the point where Shepard wakes up and complete the game to it's true ending.  It's a long shot, but there is so much evidence to support it.  Not just from story sense, but even down to what we've been hearing from Bioware staff.  

[FoxShadowblade]

It all makes a lot of sense. Shepard is hit by Harbinger's, and is knocked out cold. From there on things don't quite match up. Shepard immediately has a weapon, despite the fact the explosion destroyed most of his armor(there for probably his weapons), and we don't see him pick it up, it's just there. Once on board the Citadel, Anderson states he "ffollowed you up", and yet is far in front of you. Then you speak to TIM, and convince him to shoot himself very Saren-esque, almost indentical to me1. And the Reapers don't possess his body...why? It would take one bullet to defeat shepard now. Then comes the Catalyst, who assumes the form of a traumatic experience, and Shepard totally trusts him. He then presents the three choices, two of which are very suspicious endings that allow the reapers to live, while the other choice is much more true to what Shepard came here for, and it's presented as a bad choice.

[meiwow2]

 

FoxShadowblade wrote...

It all makes a lot of sense. Shepard is hit by Harbinger's, and is knocked out cold. From there on things don't quite match up. Shepard immediately has a weapon, despite the fact the explosion destroyed most of his armor(there for probably his weapons), and we don't see him pick it up, it's just there. Once on board the Citadel, Anderson states he "ffollowed you up", and yet is far in front of you. Then you speak to TIM, and convince him to shoot himself very Saren-esque, almost indentical to me1. And the Reapers don't possess his body...why? It would take one bullet to defeat shepard now. Then comes the Catalyst, who assumes the form of a traumatic experience, and Shepard totally trusts him. He then presents the three choices, two of which are very suspicious endings that allow the reapers to live, while the other choice is much more true to what Shepard came here for, and it's presented as a bad choice.

 
Exactly, this theory would make sence because if you think about it indotrination is a huge part of dealing with the reapers.

Modifié par meiwow2, 10 mars 2012 - 11:47 .

[Enarias]

Paxcorpus wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

so...if thats right that boy is probably harbinger?

You know, I thought about this too. It's very possible this could really be the truth. Harbinger knows Shepard has been feeling bad - no horrible, over watching the death of this young boy. So, in order to gain his trust, he takes on the embodiment of that child.

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

[Mhgasa]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Mhgasa wrote...

Are you saying that mass effect 3 isnt done or the franchise? I think mass effect 3 and thereby shepards story is very much done, and thats why it wouldnt make any sense, to me atleast, to create a "fake" ending. Cant really close a story arc and at the same time say "hey, if you want to know what really happened then buy our next game".

In theory, dlc would allow for us to continue from the point where Shepard wakes up and complete the game to it's true ending.  It's a long shot, but there is so much evidence to support it.  Not just from story sense, but even down to what we've been hearing from Bioware staff.  

I would love to believe it, i just have a hard time believing that they would ship a game with an unfinished ending which they intend to fix later on. I really think we are grasping at straws here, but god i hope im wrong

[meiwow2]

Mhgasa wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Mhgasa wrote...

Are you saying that mass effect 3 isnt done or the franchise? I think mass effect 3 and thereby shepards story is very much done, and thats why it wouldnt make any sense, to me atleast, to create a "fake" ending. Cant really close a story arc and at the same time say "hey, if you want to know what really happened then buy our next game".

In theory, dlc would allow for us to continue from the point where Shepard wakes up and complete the game to it's true ending.  It's a long shot, but there is so much evidence to support it.  Not just from story sense, but even down to what we've been hearing from Bioware staff.  

I would love to believe it, i just have a hard time believing that they would ship a game with an unfinished ending which they intend to fix later on. I really think we are grasping at straws here, but god i hope im wrong

Square enix did it with final fantasy...

[RussianOrc]

Enarias wrote...

Paxcorpus wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

so...if thats right that boy is probably harbinger?

You know, I thought about this too. It's very possible this could really be the truth. Harbinger knows Shepard has been feeling bad - no horrible, over watching the death of this young boy. So, in order to gain his trust, he takes on the embodiment of that child.

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

shepard also hear harbinger's voice in one of his dreams like he was being indocrinated from the very begining.(and the boy was also there)

Modifié par RussianOrc, 10 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[notDestin]

I'm trying to find a way to word this, but the best way I can is to describe the ending of ME3 to Fallout 3.

Bioware could easily say, "The ending is the ending for the majority. For those who wish to continue the game and the story you can purchase DLC to extend the experience."

Or something along those lines.

Modifié par notDestin, 10 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[MPSai]

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

That's a creepy thought, the kid did strike me as some kind of hallucination when I first played the demo and saw him in the vent. But then again we see him running around in the opening too, I think he was more a failed, very forced attempt to tug at the player's heartstrings. 

I do maintain that the Catalyst AI taking the kid's form was foreshadowed in the Geth Consensus though. 

Modifié par MPSai, 10 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[JamesYHT]

WarBaby2 wrote...

Ok then... here BioWare, see? We even give you a good build up for a better ending! Go for it!

haha, i'm also think the same thing....

[Mhgasa]

meiwow2 wrote...

Mhgasa wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Mhgasa wrote...

Are you saying that mass effect 3 isnt done or the franchise? I think mass effect 3 and thereby shepards story is very much done, and thats why it wouldnt make any sense, to me atleast, to create a "fake" ending. Cant really close a story arc and at the same time say "hey, if you want to know what really happened then buy our next game".

In theory, dlc would allow for us to continue from the point where Shepard wakes up and complete the game to it's true ending.  It's a long shot, but there is so much evidence to support it.  Not just from story sense, but even down to what we've been hearing from Bioware staff.  

I would love to believe it, i just have a hard time believing that they would ship a game with an unfinished ending which they intend to fix later on. I really think we are grasping at straws here, but god i hope im wrong

Square enix did it with final fantasy...

well, considering uproar over the endings, which in turn could be hurting their sales, they would really need to come clean VERY soon if there was other endings. The alternative would be very odd way of doing business, alot of the missed sales arent gonna come back if they release the actual ending months after the game. Also, what exaclty has bioware said that confirms this? the tweets ive read talk mostly about the future of mass effect

[kyleh619]

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

True! When the demo came out, as well as the later trailers, a few peaple starting saying the kid was a hallucination because no one noticed him except Shepard. I did not think anything of it at the time and I pretty much ignored it. But since finishing the game.... I cant belive I forgot about that scene with the kid when I made that first post.

Also a new thought, Shepard spent a lot of time with the Reaper Becon in "The Arrival." I also forgot that Shepard spent a little over 2 days unconsious at the Project. Thats a very long exposure time.

[Kitten Tactics]

Mhgasa wrote...

I would love to believe it, i just have a hard time believing that they would ship a game with an unfinished ending which they intend to fix later on. I really think we are grasping at straws here, but god i hope im wrong

In theory, it would be more like they planned to do this all along.  They want us all to have these negative thoughts only to tell us that were are in some way indoctrinated ourselves.  And the ending would come later as a free release.  The only thing blocking that would be people without internet access, but Bioware had no problem delivering Shadow Broker and Arrival, despite their huge rammifications on the story.

[JamesYHT]

Good idea, u can join the ME team and help to cover this mess.

[AvianCat]

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

[cannedcream]

MPSai wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

That's a creepy thought, the kid did strike me as some kind of hallucination when I first played the demo and saw him in the vent. But then again we see him running around in the opening too, I think he was more a failed, very forced attempt to tug at the player's heartstrings. 

I do maintain that the Catalyst AI taking the kid's form was foreshadowed in the Geth Consensus though. 

In the artbook, it was stated that the child was ment to represent all the people Shepard could not save.

However, that is a good point about how no one else ever sees the kid except Shepard.

[cannedcream]

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

Following that logic, in the final dream where Shepard seems himself finally catch and hold on to the child, they BOTH go up in flames.

Maybe the sane part of his mind saying "side with this child and you'll both be destoryed"?

[kyleh619]

I kind of wish that Bioware would "ASSUME CONTROL" of these end story threads so we can all say "ha! There is another ending!"

[txgriff]

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

This is what I believed because Anderson never acknowledged the boy and it seemed like no one payed attention to him when he got on the shuttle. If you also notice when Anderson tells you come on when you see the boy at the beginning you hear a growling noise after you turn your attention away from the boy, which if I remember correctly from the third book (I can't seem to remember the name of it now) when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

Modifié par txgriff, 11 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[kyleh619]

cannedcream wrote...

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

Following that logic, in the final dream where Shepard seems himself finally catch and hold on to the child, they BOTH go up in flames.

Maybe the sane part of his mind saying "side with this child and you'll both be destoryed"?

Yes that makes sense as well. The child is the cause of the flames. Join the kid and burn with him.

[AvianCat]

cannedcream wrote...

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

Following that logic, in the final dream where Shepard seems himself finally catch and hold on to the child, they BOTH go up in flames.

Maybe the sane part of his mind saying "side with this child and you'll both be destoryed"?

I also have to point out that the Crucible has been being designed throughout MANY cycles by many different species as said by the prothean VI. Quite honestly, if the Mass Relays are a focal point in your economy, are you going to build something that destroys them, hell no you aren't!

Modifié par AvianCat, 11 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[RussianOrc]

txgriff wrote...

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

This is what I believed because Anderson never acknowledged the boy and it seemed like no one payed attention to him when he got on the shuttle. If you also notice when Anderson tells you come on when you see the boy at the beginning you hear a growling noise after you turn your attention away from the boy, which if I remember correctly from the third book (I can't seem to remember the name of it now) when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

holly **** i haven't saw that one, perhaps there still hope.

[Asuka Bianchini]

Kings19 wrote...

Good theory, and I hope it's true, but why would Harbinger not just kill/finish off Shepard when he goes down after the first beam attack, rather than hope to indoctrinate him?

 
Maybe because he'd be the most useful weapon they can have. If the Reapers are losing, and they made Shepard 'take control' of them, then they could retreat, recover, and come back with avengence with the most powerful person in the galaxy working FOR them.

Just an idea.

 

 
Harvinger has no way to know who shepard is or track where he is unless he were to indoctrinate him which happens when you spend time by reapers or reaper artifacts. The reapers are only linked to indoctrinated subjects.

 Harbinger DOES know who Shepard is, though. I imagine all Reapers do. And this is after the Reaper is already inside Shep's head. We know that indoc can manipulate your thoughts, memories, and feelings. If the reapers mean to keep Shepard under control and stop him from fighting back, then why not 'show' him that his loved ones are safe?

It's just a theory. It's better than saying BW just made a huuuuuge continuity error.

Remember that Shiala (the green asari from the Thorian) tells you earlier in ME3 that both her and the colonists of Zhu's Rope kinda ''hear'' the reapers somehow, which she thinks its due to the Thorian experience and the cypher. And she ''embraced eternity'' with shepard. So... Harbinger WOULD know where to find Shepard, they already have this connection.

If Bioware makes this official (and add an ending DLC) they will get my total respect back. It is just genious, and to be honest, this sour taste we are having from the ending just makes it better. It is like we are being tested in our resolve, as ME2 trailer says ''our resolve must be unquestionable'' and that is what this end does: questions you. And you must keep firm to your beliefs.

About the normandy crew, Garrus (my LI) did tell me on our goodbye that after that (the battle) he'd like to go some place warm, tropical, so yea, that would fit with my Shep's imagination of a future to him.

Modifié par Asuka Bianchini, 11 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[Animositisomina]

RussianOrc wrote...

This eding really may be some kind of trap, it would explain why its so diferent from the leaked script.

I never actually read the leaked script. How much different was it from what we saw in the final game?