209 réponses à ce sujet

[SSHSpartan]

This gives me hope that Bioware are crazy, insane, down right masterful story tellers, because if this is true, my mind will be blown beyond the levels that watching Inception did to me.

Modifié par SSHSpartan, 11 mars 2012 - 12:45 .

[lookingglassmind]

Damnit, why is this thread here? Now I have to jump between this and the original hallucination thread to get a full picture of how the community is processing and building upon this theory.

Keep things pooled, people!

[Animositisomina]

[double post]

Modifié par Animositisomina, 11 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[Kitten Tactics]

thePredator50 wrote...

Had there been a growling noise like at the vent when you choose the Renegade ending, it'd confirm indoctrination. I see this having potential, the "god" being in the form of the child, as well as the Renegade option being Anderson while Paragon being TIM are all very weird indeed.

Let's assume for a second that Shepard could have survived the crash back to earth. A large piece of the Citadel falls down with Shepard in it, and he miraculously survives, fine.

The theory would make more sense, albeit here would still be a problem. The child is actually an avatar of the Reapers, hell, perhaps even Harbinger. I'm sure the Reapers knew what was happening on the citadel, they must have detected people going through the beam. It would make sense for them to try and trick Shepard into doing what they want.

However, why not just leave him with Anderson to bleed to death? Were they scared he might activate the crucible via the terminal? Seems unlikely, seeing as he already passed out on the floor in front.

Shepard NEVER made it to the Citadel.  Shepard is not waking up in the rubble of the Citadel.  Shepard is waking up before the slow-mo walk to the beam.  None of that has happened.  Shepard has not made it to the beam, nobody has.  

[krystalevenstar]

OP from the original hallucination thread offered to update the first post to include all the evidence if someone would compile it all from the threads. I've been debating it, just haven't gotten around to it yet :/

[Kitten Tactics]

I was just doing so =)

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

[Animositisomina]

With regards to the "growling sound": It could also be seen as an auditory device used to "snap you out of" an illusion/hypnosis, or whatever you want to call it. Shepard sort of falls into this delusion that he sees a child and then the noise plays a second time, waking him up--returning back to reality, as Anderson calls to him at the same time.

Also note that the Catalyst at the end doesn't tell Shepard to "get up" but rather "wake up". The two could have very different meanings. Get up would mean you're just laying down, physically. Wake up, however, has a more psychological connotation to it.

Modifié par Animositisomina, 11 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[RussianOrc]

I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.
anyone saw that?

[Kitten Tactics]

Good catch, adding it to the list in the other thread

[Kitten Tactics]

Great points made by all in here, but for the sake of simplicity, can everyone please move the conversation to the original thread?

http://social.biowar...7423/24#9756189

[AvianCat]

RussianOrc wrote...

I've also noticed by watching the ending that the destroy option is the only one wich shepard don't look like a husk before his death.
anyone saw that?

I noticed that too but I wouldn't so much call it looking "like a husk" but more along the lines of being processed much like the collectors were doing.

[kyleh619]

Changing OP.

*edit, we need to move this thread over to another, larger one. There is a lot of back and forth going on between posts.
Here is the link to the other post:

http://social.biowar...7423/24#9756189


Please move to this one.

Modifié par kyleh619, 11 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[Turtlicious]

Oh thank god, this actually makes me feel a lot better, because it would even explain his little gasp of breath at the end.

[Jonathan Sud]

I have a little input as well.

Harbringer was acting as the kid. In Mass Effect: Retribution, the Reapers can access all of Grayson's memories via the indoctrination, and they capitalize on this fact. If Shepard really was indoctrinated, then the Reapers would have seen that the child was an easy way to get to him, as Shepard carried a heavy sense of responsibility for the child's death.

Listen closely to the child's voice, and you will hear Harbringer's tone underneath. The child repeats EVERYTHING Harbringer and Sovereign told you.

[txgriff]

Asuka Bianchini wrote...

kyleh619 wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

txgriff wrote...

AvianCat wrote...

Enarias wrote...

Nobody helped the boy when he tried to get into the shuttle when Reapers attack Earth. Why? Maybe they didn´t see him, maybe he wasn´t there. Anderson didn´t see the boy either. Shepard could be indocrinated and seeing things from beginning...

You know that makes sense as well, and putting this with those dream sequences where the child goes up in flames may be Shepard's subconcious trying to fight it off. And if this is all true the Bioware has been building up a giant mind screw of a finally.

This is what I believed because Anderson never acknowledged the boy and it seemed like no one payed attention to him when he got on the shuttle. If you also notice when Anderson tells you come on when you see the boy at the beginning you hear a growling noise after you turn your attention away from the boy, which if I remember correctly from the third book (I can't seem to remember the name of it now) when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

 here start after 00:43.
he's right.
the sound starts exactly after anderson call shepard.

Damn, your right, there is growling there. Now I really wished I read the books.

*amazed*
this gives me so much hope, thanks *watery eyes*

When I first played the demo and I saw that scene and heard the growling I was thinking that indoctrination would play a large role in the game, however it seems for the most part it really hadn't which makes me think this isn't over yet. Also that growling sound from what I remember doesn't appear in any other part of the game so who knows...

[txgriff]

double post

Modifié par txgriff, 11 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[txgriff]

hmmm another post

Modifié par txgriff, 11 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[humes spork]

Just getting the word out here, I already brought it up on the other thread about this...but Vega complains the entire game about hearing a hum nobody else can, including Shepard. Indoctrination works through infrasound.

The very first conclusion I came to was there'd been an Indoctrination device hidden onboard the Normandy, but spent an hour hunting for it figuring it'd be a side quest or something but never found a thing, and absolutely nothing came of it so I forgot about it until tonight...and yet, Vega continued to complain about it all the way through the game.

You remember the last time somebody complained about a mysterious phenomenon they detected in a particular location from the beginning of the game onwards and never shut up about it? That was Kaiden, and he was sensing the inactive mass relay on the Presidium.

[txgriff]

 another thing that makes me believe this isn't over...in the video "meeting the voice cast" martin sheen makes the statement "that he isn't done yet", which when I first saw it before the game came out made me think the illusive man doesn't die, so I don't know I feel like it's not over yet.

here's the video he says it near the end... masseffect.bioware.com/videos/video/42b078e7df9e56e2108821ceb218bd1a

[Bigdoser]

This is really interesting if bioware goes this route my faith will be fully restored.

[Rahabzu]

humes spork wrote...

Just getting the word out here, I already brought it up on the other thread about this...but Vega complains the entire game about hearing a hum nobody else can, including Shepard. Indoctrination works through infrasound.

The very first conclusion I came to was there'd been an Indoctrination device hidden onboard the Normandy, but spent an hour hunting for it figuring it'd be a side quest or something but never found a thing, and absolutely nothing came of it so I forgot about it until tonight...and yet, Vega continued to complain about it all the way through the game.

You remember the last time somebody complained about a mysterious phenomenon they detected in a particular location from the beginning of the game onwards and never shut up about it? That was Kaiden, and he was sensing the inactive mass relay on the Presidium.

That hum thing is really interesting but I highly doubt it, it's probably james just being stupid about the engine or something.

[Puppet_Guy]

If this whole indoctrination/hallucination theory is actually the case and they're just playing us like a piano, I will bake Bioware a friggan' cake. And then slap some of it in their face.

[txgriff]

well I think I am fully in line with thinking they are giving us the real ending next week, from the fact that they postponed the release which leads me to think they have spent that time working on the real ending and whatever else goes with that. Also the comments some of the devs have made (mostly on twitter) gives me hope that they are pushing to make it as soon as possible.

@GambleMike By the way... I am reading all of your thoughts. Just not ready to comment yet

but my favorite

@GambleMike Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever.

[Aanlen]

I'm starting to really believe this. I'm almost convinced. Now, I'm not getting my hopes up. I don't think I can handle more dissapointment. But if they did do this, then it's the first time ever something like this has been done. And I must congradulate them for having a quad the size of the citadel for daring a stunt like this.

[Turtlicious]

http://social.biowar...7423/70#9770512 Move this here, or merge the threads, that way you guys can share with us the glory of this theory