It's weird. Sovereign needed Saren's help because it couldn't connect with the inner part of the Citadel like usual, but then we find out that said inner part housed the very thing that controlled the Reapers. I would have thought that if the Catalyst kid was controlling the Reapers there would be mention of how it couldn't communicate with them thanks to the Protheans, but apparently it maintained the connection but not control over the Citadel. I don't get it really.
Why did Sovereign have to go through all that if the citadel itself was on his side?
Débuté par
Harbinger of your Destiny
, mars 10 2012 11:30
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#27
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:13
AlphaJarmel
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balmyrian wrote...
Actually, there's no need to be this dismissive. It's easily explainable that the cycle isn't meant to go on forever. The cycle is meant to go on until a better solution comes up. It is basically a Litmus Test. Stand up to the test and show if you can change the game. Don't, and just get wiped out.
The fact that the reapers don't come and immediately destroy everything but that it instead happens over time leaves the kind of room for the test to take place in a remotely fair manner. The Protheans stood up for about a century or so struggling against fatality, and since they could not bring up anything but sheer armed resistance, they went the way of the dodo.
Then this is the most ridiculous test I've ever heard of. You heavily rig the test in your favor and I mean HEAVILY and you still expect the person to pass? Even after the organics stop Nazara for the first time ever, business goes on as usual.
No this is a plothole.
#28
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:14
Nightshade386
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Because the main writer of the series switched.
#29
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:14
Sajuro
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If he just opened the citadel then it wouldn't be a test for the organics, like other people have said. I don't know if the great deal of Reapers are even aware that they are tools.
#30
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:14
Kusy
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@Balmyrian: I'm not rude, dismissive? Maybe. All I'm saying is that if you could make up an explanation that sounds more or less decent in what? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? Something around that... if you could do that, if I could, if anyone of us could do it - it makes those endings even more disappointing doesn't it?
#31
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:15
Texhnolyze101
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WarGriffin wrote...
Lexagg wrote...
I get it! The reaper's true intentions were to create a gigantic plot hole in Mass Effect universe through which they could escape to Star Wars.
Why... The Reapers would finally get curbstomped in a full on fight with the Imperial Fleet!
The force >>>> reapers
#32
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:21
AlphaJarmel
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Sajuro wrote...
If he just opened the citadel then it wouldn't be a test for the organics, like other people have said. I don't know if the great deal of Reapers are even aware that they are tools.
Most of the time it seems, organics don't even know the Reapers exist. So how is someone supposed to prepare for a test they don't even see coming. Even then that doesn't make sense as the Guardian's role isn't to unite the races but to prevent a Singularity. Singularities have nothing to do with uniting races but merely to prevent a certain technological point.
#33
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:23
The Angry One
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Test? What test? You do realise that the Citadel was supposed to open the path for the Reapers without any organic knowledge? It didn't because the Protheans altered the Keepers, thus requiring Sovereign to indoctrinate the Rachni.. which also failed. Then Saren, which failed.
All the while, the Citadel could've done so by itself? Please.
All the while, the Citadel could've done so by itself? Please.
#34
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:23
R3VALAT1ONS
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Because the writers from mass effect one had a different idea for the reapers then how it came out over the next two games and changed. Its a giant plot hole and just shows even more how bioware ****ed up in the end
#35
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:25
Dynomite15
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To think if the endings were just adequate people wouldn't be picking the story apart with a fine comb. We would have just accepted everything! Are the endings making the whole game look bad?
#36
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:26
karambiatos
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pretty much... yesDynomite15 wrote...
To think if the endings were just adequate people wouldn't be picking the story apart with a fine comb. We would have just accepted everything! Are the endings making the whole game look bad?
because its an awesome ride till the end, then the ending comes an its destroys any feeling of awesome you had up until that point.
Modifié par karambiatos, 11 mars 2012 - 12:27 .
#37
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:26
AlphaJarmel
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Dynomite15 wrote...
To think if the endings were just adequate people wouldn't be picking the story apart with a fine comb. We would have just accepted everything! Are the endings making the whole game look bad?
The ending is so bad, it's sucking ME1 and ME2 into the dark abyss of plotholes.
#38
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:28
thesnake777
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Becuase it makes no sense...if what the reaper child said was true..there was no point to ME1 at all....my Shep should have just died at the end of ME1
#39
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:30
malkuth74
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Like all gods they usually just sit there and watch there creations do bad things in his name, while he does nothing.
Makes sense to me.
Makes sense to me.
#40
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:38
Arthorius
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The "it was a test" argument is invalid. It's no frigging test. The other cycles never stood a chance for their Citadel fell without the slightest warning and their isolated worlds were destroyed one by one.
Also, now I'm wondering something. Since the usual Reaper strategy is to take over the Citadel and use it to control every Mass Relay, why didn't they do so at the moment they arrived to our galaxy? Would have save them a lot of trouble. Like, no giant fleet of epic kick-assness, and Shepard stranded on Earth...
Wait.
Shepard to Harbinger: "I'm not stranded with you. You're all stranded with me!!!"
That. Would not have been a good idea.
Also, now I'm wondering something. Since the usual Reaper strategy is to take over the Citadel and use it to control every Mass Relay, why didn't they do so at the moment they arrived to our galaxy? Would have save them a lot of trouble. Like, no giant fleet of epic kick-assness, and Shepard stranded on Earth...
Wait.
Shepard to Harbinger: "I'm not stranded with you. You're all stranded with me!!!"
That. Would not have been a good idea.
#41
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:39
WarBaby2
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"Such a tactic could have ended horribly, but fortunately for us and BioWare, it paid off tremendously." Until the ultimate ending.^^
But about the Citadel: That's pretty simple, really, if you know math... which I don't. Just kidding.
The whole cycle concept is mathematical equasion, really. Every 50.000 years, the harvesting is initiated by one reaper, left behind as a vanguard... probably the same reaper that was created the previous cycle. In ME1 this was Souvereign... problem was, he was stopped.
Then a backup plan was set into motion: The collectors (as harbingers proxies) should create the human reaper, as the representation of the current cycle and the vanguard for the next... it then should do what Souvereign couldn't acomplish... opening the Citadel relay. When that failed, the reapers started to act directly.
Finally, in ME3, the cycle was broken. Even that was a mathematcal necessity... I had to happen sooner or later, and each civilisation came closer to doing it before it was harvested...
Finally, and here is the tricky part: Only the creators of the orignal cycle could end it all, because they have been the only ones to know how... the crucible. Humans (represented by Shep) where the first race to actually build and activate the crucible, something only the creators could accomplish. When that happened, the catalyst knew it was over and a new solution had to be found.
So, the short answer would be: The catalyst didn't act because it was not it's perpouse...
But about the Citadel: That's pretty simple, really, if you know math... which I don't. Just kidding.
The whole cycle concept is mathematical equasion, really. Every 50.000 years, the harvesting is initiated by one reaper, left behind as a vanguard... probably the same reaper that was created the previous cycle. In ME1 this was Souvereign... problem was, he was stopped.
Then a backup plan was set into motion: The collectors (as harbingers proxies) should create the human reaper, as the representation of the current cycle and the vanguard for the next... it then should do what Souvereign couldn't acomplish... opening the Citadel relay. When that failed, the reapers started to act directly.
Finally, in ME3, the cycle was broken. Even that was a mathematcal necessity... I had to happen sooner or later, and each civilisation came closer to doing it before it was harvested...
Finally, and here is the tricky part: Only the creators of the orignal cycle could end it all, because they have been the only ones to know how... the crucible. Humans (represented by Shep) where the first race to actually build and activate the crucible, something only the creators could accomplish. When that happened, the catalyst knew it was over and a new solution had to be found.
So, the short answer would be: The catalyst didn't act because it was not it's perpouse...
#42
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:40
WarBaby2
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Arthorius wrote...
Shepard to Harbinger: "I'm not stranded with you. You're all stranded with me!!!"
WATCHMEN is the most epic superhero movie ever... and it had a great ending... one that wasn't happy at all!
#43
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:42
The Angry One
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You know, I think they just plain forgot the part about the Reapers controlling the mass relays through the Citadel. Given that Javik claims the Protheans held the Reapers off "for centuries" with something akin to scorched earth tactics and that a Prothean fleet was performing a neutron bombardment of Eden Prime (how did it get there? magic?).
Modifié par The Angry One, 11 mars 2012 - 12:42 .
#44
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:44
Sajuro
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Pop QuizAlphaJarmel wrote...
Sajuro wrote...
If he just opened the citadel then it wouldn't be a test for the organics, like other people have said. I don't know if the great deal of Reapers are even aware that they are tools.
Most of the time it seems, organics don't even know the Reapers exist. So how is someone supposed to prepare for a test they don't even see coming. Even then that doesn't make sense as the Guardian's role isn't to unite the races but to prevent a Singularity. Singularities have nothing to do with uniting races but merely to prevent a certain technological point.
That kills you if you fail.
I'm just going to go with "The Catalyst is a douche to everyone"
#45
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:45
Arthorius
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That. And how did they managed to disrupt the Keepers if they had not set foot on the Citadel for centuries?
#46
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:52
Tapkomet
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Arthorius wrote...
That. And how did they managed to disrupt the Keepers if they had not set foot on the Citadel for centuries?
That's pretty much explained by Vigil back in Mass Effect 1
#48
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:58
lasertank
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Because it a giant plot hole but Bioware totally ignored it.
#50
Posté 11 mars 2012 - 12:59
HKR148
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Sajuro wrote...
Pop QuizAlphaJarmel wrote...
Sajuro wrote...
If he just opened the citadel then it wouldn't be a test for the organics, like other people have said. I don't know if the great deal of Reapers are even aware that they are tools.
Most of the time it seems, organics don't even know the Reapers exist. So how is someone supposed to prepare for a test they don't even see coming. Even then that doesn't make sense as the Guardian's role isn't to unite the races but to prevent a Singularity. Singularities have nothing to do with uniting races but merely to prevent a certain technological point.
That kills you if you fail.
I'm just going to go with "The Catalyst is a douche to everyone"
The vent-kid does not care about the organic's will to fight against. It believes that its idea is the ultimate truth, there's no reason for the thing to grant us the chance to say otherwise because it simply doesn't care and believes that we will never understand its intention. So by that logic where does the chance of giving organic a test exist?
